Sign in with
Sign up | Sign in
Your question
Solved

Can I replace Seagate ST3500418AS SATA 500GB with Seagate ST500DM002 SATA III 500GB in Raid Array

Last response: in Storage
Share
April 2, 2013 5:48:33 PM

Hi,

Newbie here so pre-apologies provided. I currently have a pair of Seagate ST3500418AS 500GB SATA HDDs in my system and one of them has died. (Intel Matrix Storage Manager 8.5 tells me) Replacement ST3500418AS's are very hard to find.

Can I replace the dead one (followed by the still live but dated one) with a new pair of Seagate ST500DM002 SATA III 500GB Drives?

I presume by removing the failed drive and replacing it with a new drive, then after RAID Volume Repair is completed, swapping out the second old ST3500418AS and completing a second RAID Volume Repair?

System: 2.85 Gigahertz Intel Core2 Quad Q9550, twin 500GB Raid Mirrored HDDs, 4GB RAM, External 1.5TB HDD, Windows XP Professional Service Pack 3 (build 2600) (32 bit) with HL-DT-ST BDDVDRW GGC-H20L [CD-ROM drive] and NVIDIA GeForce GT 440 1GB DDR3 [Display adapter], LG Flatron E2441IV [Monitor] (24.0")
April 3, 2013 9:13:55 PM

The short answer is yes. This assumes the new 500 Gb drive is the same size or larger than the one it was replacing (not all drives format to exactly the same size).

I have an older system that had a pair of 250 Gb drives in Mirrored raid. When one of them died I was unable to buy a new 250 because they are so old. I simply dropped in a 500 Gb drive and it rebuilt just fine because the 500 was larger. Obviously only 250 of that 500 Gb is used. A year or so later the surviving 250 died and I replaced it with another 500 Gb. So now I have a pair of 500 Gb drives using only 250 Gigs in the Mirrored raid.


Tim
m
0
l
April 3, 2013 9:40:35 PM

texastim65 said:
The short answer is yes. This assumes the new 500 Gb drive is the same size or larger than the one it was replacing (not all drives format to exactly the same size).

I have an older system that had a pair of 250 Gb drives in Mirrored raid. When one of them died I was unable to buy a new 250 because they are so old. I simply dropped in a 500 Gb drive and it rebuilt just fine because the 500 was larger. Obviously only 250 of that 500 Gb is used. A year or so later the surviving 250 died and I replaced it with another 500 Gb. So now I have a pair of 500 Gb drives using only 250 Gigs in the Mirrored raid.


Tim



Hi and thanks for the input,

As I will be swapping 500GB Drives for 500GB Drives the sizes should not be a problem. Do you see any issues/problems with the change in SATA version? The old ST3500418AS's are SATA 3Gb/s and the new ST500DM002's will be SATA III 6Gb/s?

Sorry for being such a newbie.

Thanks again for the reply and information.
m
0
l
Related resources
a c 812 G Storage
April 4, 2013 4:33:17 PM

no, the sata type is mostly irrelevant between sata2 and 3 with HDD's.
m
0
l
April 4, 2013 9:05:21 PM

popatim said:
no, the sata type is mostly irrelevant between sata2 and 3 with HDD's.


And of course after swapping out the dead drive for one of the two new ST500DM002 drives I bought the second old drive doing the rebuild died 30% of the way through.

Now I am stuffed.

Any thoughts, anybody?

Help!
m
0
l
April 4, 2013 9:26:58 PM

Yes, you are stuffed.

Of course the odds of both drives failing at the same time like that are incredibly low.

So are you *sure* the other old drive actually died? Did you try pulling out the new drive and booting with just the 1 old drive. You might also want to look in the RAID BIOS to see if there is any error messages etc.

Believe it or not, when my RAID failed the first time I pulled out one drive in an attempt to find the bad one. The system booted so I assumed I guessed right. Then on a lark I put back the one I thought was bad and pulled out the other one and the system booted! They just wouldn't boot together (I assume what must have happened is that one drive eventually got too many bad sectors to remain RAID viable in MIRROR format). So if you are desperate you can put back the drive you think is bad and see if that boots and maybe you can try rebuilding from it.

The last thing to try is putting in the other new drive and attempting to rebuild on it. This assumes of course at least one of the old drives can boot.

Tim
m
0
l
April 4, 2013 10:25:39 PM

Hi,

Tried booting with only the new partially build drive connected and got the Disk Boot Failure Error Message.

Then l I put both the old drives back and now the message I get is that the original one that died is now an off-line member and that the one that died today is dead.

Next I tried the first dead one with the new partially built one from today.

Disk Boot Failure, Insert System Disk and Press Enter.

Only option left would be to put in the two new ones ..... can't see how that would boot or rebuild.

Of course I do not have a system disk (another bonehead omission / error)

Not sure of what or how to look for RAID BIOS Errors or what to do about them if I could find them.
m
0
l
April 5, 2013 10:22:01 AM

Just a quick question. You didn't delete your RAID array setup in the RAID Bios did you? You should not have done that/do that. I assume you haven't but wanted to make sure the RAID Mirror is still active because the drives won't boot on their own (RAID does something to the drives that won't let them boot on their own outside the RAID environment).

Putting the 2 new drives in won't help and won't boot since the rebuild never completed.

The *only* thing that can boot is one of the 2 old drives. I suggest just putting them in 1 at a time (no other hard drives connected). The RAID Bios will complain about the RAID array being in a bad state but that's OK, it will still boot if the drive isn't totally dead.

If one of the 2 old drives boots you have a chance to recover. If neither will boot you are in deep trouble and will require another computer to put the old drives in and then hope that you can manually recover the files.

Tim
m
0
l
April 5, 2013 4:07:05 PM

Never touched the RAID Bios. Tried drives one by one and they both appear dead.

I have an external 1.5TB drive attached to my system and all data files are updated daily by two separate back up programs plus a mirror image by Macrium Reflect (free).

Got a reply back from Seagate Support.

"Thank you for contacting Seagate Technical Support, It would be best if you could backup your data
on a external drive, and create a new raid array with similar drives"

Seems they had no faith in the swapping out the dead one and then rebuilding a new one idea.

I will hand the PC and the 2 dead drives plus the two new drives over to the guy who build the PC and see what he can do. I think it will lead me down the path to a new system or at least a new O/S (64bit). Then the new O/S will lead to more RAM, motherboard issues etc.

Luckily I have two new 500GB Drives.

I will think about and then get back to you.
m
0
l

Best solution

April 7, 2013 7:19:18 PM

Hi,

So now for an update.

I have purchased two ST500DM002 500GB HDD and both are now "formatted" and RAID clean. I have purchased an OEM Version of Win 7 Home Premium 64Bit OS and (4 x 2GB Kingston DDR2 800 RAM). Faster than 800 would have been nicer but hard to find in DDR2 and Expensive. I will remove old (2 x 2GB RAM) and replace with matched set of new (4 x 2GB) RAM.

I have placed both old and supposedly "dead" ST3500418AS 500Gb Drives into an External HDD SATA Enclosure and connected them to my "tiny" Toshiba Mini Notebook and I can see and retrieve all data etc. from both old "dead Drives.

My intention is to install both new drives and the (4 x 2GB ) RAM and then install the new OS = Win 7 64Bit. Then re-install all of my security programs etc.

So what is the next step?

How do I set up the two drives as Raid 1?

When and How do I Install the new OS?

It can't be as simple as install the new drives and RAM and then just boot up and stick in the Win 7 Disk?? (RAID 1 installing all by itself)

Any guidance, written for a 5 year old, in small detailed steps, will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks all for your assistance and tolerance.
Share
April 7, 2013 7:40:57 PM

Quote:
I have placed both old and supposedly "dead" ST3500418AS 500Gb Drives into an External HDD SATA Enclosure and connected them to my "tiny" Toshiba Mini Notebook and I see and retrieve all data etc. from both old "dead Drives.


Are you saying you can *see* all your data on the 'dead' drives when connected to another machine. If that's the case it means what happened is that you accidentally *broke* your RAID mirror. In other words at some point the RAID setup in the BIOS got deleted. That's why the drives wouldn't boot (I mentioned this before, that RAID drives won't boot on their own in another machine because the RAID setup changes where they boot from). In any case at least you can recover all your data which is good news.

Now for the new RAID setup. I don't know which MB you are using or which RAID controller. But what normally has to happen is you need to download RAID drivers for windows (the RAID is actually a software RAID, not a true hardware RAID like those on a separate RAID card) for the RAID controller. The MB manual usually states which drivers you need. But in the RAID BIOS setup, if it says INTEL RAID controller you can usually google and find the drivers that way.

Then you go to the BIOS and setup the RAID 1 (which I think you already did)
During installation of Windows the RAID BIOS will ask for the drivers (have them on a USB thumbdrive). This happens even before Windows installs. The drivers need to be running first to ensure that the O/S install gets mirrored on both drives.

And that's it. Once Windows is installed you should have a RAID process running all the time and typically an icon in the icon tray that gives the state of the RAID. It really is that simple.

Tim
m
0
l
April 7, 2013 8:02:44 PM

Hi,

That's right I can open and read both of the old "dead drives" when I connect them to another machine (Toshiba Mini Notebook NB 255). How I actually "broke" the RAID Mirror is beyond me. I don't remember anything RAID related appearing anywhere that I could have "broken" apart from the tray icon stating that one was dead.

The MB is Gigabyte EP45-UD3R.

When I do boot and before I get to the "Disk Boot Failure, Insert System Disk and Press Enter - Message" the two new drives are both identified as non-raid volumes.


Thanks for getting back so quickly.
m
0
l
April 8, 2013 9:30:27 AM

Here is the manual for your MB (you didn't say whether you had it or not)

http://www.manualowl.com/m/Gigabyte/GA-EP45-UD3R/Manual...

The relevant stuff starts on page 83.

One thing I noticed is your MB has 2 RAID Controllers. An Intel one and a Marvell one. I have no idea which one you were using prior or are going to use now. I suggest the Intel one.

Back to your original drives and the loss of your RAID array:

When your PC boots, the RAID BIOS should have displayed a message about your RAID state (good, bad etc) before Windows booted. Do you recall such a message? If you remove 1 drive you get a message about the array being in a bad state etc.

Somehow that RAID array got deleted. It would NOT have happened from Windows. It must have happened from the RAID BIOS. Either you went in there and deleted it or else when you were disconnecting and reconnecting the SATA cables you didn't plug the cables back into the same slots on the MB (only some cable slots are RAID slots). That's why at some point you got the message about the 2nd drive not being in the RAID.

Since your 2 drives still have data, I suspect they are still good. You should still be able to plug them into your MB, go into the RAID BIOS and set up the RAID mirror. At that point they should boot. Of course you have to connect the SATA cables to the right slots (ideally you never moved them). The instructions starting on page 83 describe what you do in the RAID BIOS to set up the mirror (you can ignore the drives/windows install if you want to take 1 last shot at recovering the original RAID).


Back to your new RAID setup:

Starting on page 83 describes what you need to do including the drivers. I have no idea where you find those. They should be with the CD that came with the MB but are not likely for Win7/64 so you probably need those from the Intel/Marvell website site. Use a USB stick instead of a floppy (this is an old manual. LOL). But otherwise everything there is how I set mine up a few years ago. It's not that hard other than the bootable USB/floppy part.

Tim
m
0
l
April 8, 2013 4:20:13 PM

Hi,

Many thanks for going to all of the trouble to locate a User's Manual for the Gigabyte MB.

On the RAID Controller issue, the only interaction I ever had was with the "Intel Matrix Storage Manager 8.5 GUI" which sat in the Task Tray. I therefore assume it was using the INTEL RAID Controller?

A message from that software GUI telling me that one drive had failed and needed to be replaced and the RAID Volume rebuilt was the first indication that there was drive problem. I have had to build the RAID volume before but have had nothing about a failed drive needing to be replaced.

Worked my way through the <del> BIOS Screen, followed by the <ctrl-I> RAID Configuration Screen. At the RAID Configuration Screen I could only first "Delete a RAID Volume" as the option to create a RAID Volume gave an error message about too much memory? After choosing Delete a Volume it wants to wipe both drives/discs. At the Create RAID Volume it want to wipe both disks. Could not see a way around using the old drives and not having the drives wiped clean/ formatted?

I have gone with the two new drives, Deleted the Old Raid Volume and Created a New Raid Volume and had the drives wiped. As the new drives contained nothing I did not see a problem.

I notice in this youtube video that the instruction is given to use <ctrl-G> to enter the RAID configuration (different BIOS version ?) and in the following menu there is choices to Solve Mirror Conflict and Rebuild Mirror Drive. I was not offered these when I used <ctrl-I>.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5L--ByVvXqw

Anyway, if I reboot now I have all green on the Bootable Drive and two green RAID Drives .. all it now wants is the system disc.

When the new Win 7 OS and (4 x 2GB) RAM get delivered here later this week I will install the RAM.

Then on the MB RAID Driver front I downloaded the driver onto a USB Stick/Thumb Drive. It is the Driver as specified and shown on the Gigabyte Web Site. (http://www.gigabyte.com.au/products/product-page.aspx?p...) Intel SATA RAID/AHCI Driver, Windows 7 64bit, 8.9.0.1023, 13.10 MB, 2009/08/11.

Hope it's the one. It's a Zip File and I am wondering if it it is executable on its own or does it need to be Un-Zipped into a folder on the USB? ....... Nope it is executable on its own.

Quote:
It's not that hard other than the bootable USB/floppy part.


Now my head hurts. I am reading page 95, Making a SATA RAID/AHCI Driver Diskette and onwards and am hoping that having the Driver on a USB and that a WIN 7 installation operates like the WIN Vista installation outlined on page 101, rather than the XP horror on page 97.

Do I need to put the Driver on a clean USB or will I be able to direct the Installation to the Driver on a USB containing other files?

The youtube video above seems to indicate that Win 7 will let you browse to your USB for the drivers you want to install.

Still stuck on the Zip File RAID Driver thing but I am working on it.

Every time I think I have got this thing worked out, something else pokes me in the eye again.

Thanks again for all the support and direction.
m
0
l
April 8, 2013 8:06:03 PM

Quote:

On the RAID Controller issue, the only interaction I ever had was with the "Intel Matrix Storage Manager 8.5 GUI" which sat in the Task Tray. I therefore assume it was using the INTEL RAID Controller?


I would say that's a correct assumption.

Quote:

A message from that software GUI telling me that one drive had failed and needed to be replaced and the RAID Volume rebuilt was the first indication that there was drive problem. I have had to build the RAID volume before but have had nothing about a failed drive needing to be replaced.


Strange you would have needed to rebuild before without replacing a drive. I've never heard of having to do that unless you pulled out one of the hard drives and booted then put it back in and the RAID figured out they weren't in sync.

My BIOS always displays a message about the RAID status. Granted I don't have the Intel RAID controller but they are more or less all the same. I wonder if that message is turned off to not be displayed at boot time.

Quote:

Worked my way through the <del> BIOS Screen, followed by the <ctrl-I> RAID Configuration Screen. At the RAID Configuration Screen I could only first "Delete a RAID Volume" as the option to create a RAID Volume gave an error message about too much memory? After choosing Delete a Volume it wants to wipe both drives/discs. At the Create RAID Volume it want to wipe both disks. Could not see a way around using the old drives and not having the drives wiped clean/ formatted?


That's a shame. The one on my MB does not demand to wipe out the disks every time you create a RAID array. The reason I know that RAID drives don't boot on their own is because I accidentally deleted my RAID array once. Then my drives wouldn't boot in any machine I placed them in but I was able to see all the data (your exact situation). In my case I was able to simply recreate a RAID array in the BIOS (as you just attempted to do) and it never asked to format my disks and it just auto-magically started working again for which I thanked God many times.

Quote:

I have gone with the two new drives, Deleted the Old Raid Volume and Created a New Raid Volume and had the drives wiped. As the new drives contained nothing I did not see a problem.


Perfect. You are ready to go now on those 2 new drives.

Quote:

Now my head hurts. I am reading page 95, Making a SATA RAID/AHCI Driver Diskette and onwards and am hoping that having the Driver on a USB and that a WIN 7 installation operates like the WIN Vista installation outlined on page 101, rather than the XP horror on page 97.

Do I need to put the Driver on a clean USB or will I be able to direct the Installation to the Driver on a USB containing other files?


I had the XP horror show when I did mine about 5 years ago. I had to buy a USB floppy to make it all work. LOL. It's good to know that Vista has cleaned up the process. I would expect Win 7 to follow Vista so you should be in great shape.

One last thing. While googling something on the Intel Raid controller and wiping the data on the disks I found this:

http://forums.extremeoverclocking.com/showpost.php?p=33...

It appears your data isn't really wiped out. Only the RAID data which gets repaired by this wiping. This guy was building a more more complex RAID (0 as opposed to your 1) and got his to work again. I saw several other people say they did the same thing and got theirs working again too. So, while you wait for the RAM, you could potentially try this and see if it works. Just put in 1 of the old drives and 1 new one. Setup the RAID, download that utility and fix the MBR if necessary. With luck it will boot right up (you may have to swap which drive is plugged in where if it doesn't boot first time).

On the other hand you are going to do a new O/S install with more RAM so maybe you don't really care any more since you still have all your old data anyway (other than the pain of re-installing all the programs, patching them etc which can take a lot of hours).

Tim
m
0
l
April 8, 2013 9:47:15 PM

Hi,

Thanks again for getting back so quickly.

Where I am stuck now is the Driver File I downloaded from Gigabyte.

Quote:
Intel SATA RAID/AHCI Driver OS: Windows XP 32bit, Windows XP 64bit,Windows Vista 32bit, Windows Vista 64bit, Windows 7 32bit, Windows 7 64bit, Windows Server 2003 32bit, Windows Server 2003 64bit - Version: 8.9.0.1023 Size:13.10 MB Date: 2009/08/11 Locations: Asia China America Europe Europe (Russia) : FTP / Http


The sucker is an executable ZIP File that has Macrovision iata_cd.exe file in it? I have no idea if I browse to the whole thing, or I need to find a way to pick out only the WIN 7 64 Bit I really need. Do I just install the whole thing??

http://social.technet.microsoft.com/Forums/en-US/w7itpr...

The advice here from Tomas Ferguson - reads well but it does not work ... for me anyway.

I need to re-google the Intel RAID Drives for Win 7 64 bit only again. Have not found anything really helpful yet.

Quote:
File name: iata_cd.exe Version: 11.7.0.1013 Download Date: 12/03/2012 Status: Latest Size: 11.81 MB Language: Multi language Operating Systems: Windows Server 2008 *, Windows 7 *, Windows 8*, Windows Server 2008 R2*


From INTEL Download Site.

https://downloadcenter.intel.com/Detail_Desc.aspx?agr=Y...(Intel%c2%ae+RST)&lang=eng

Gigabyte also have pre-install drivers listed but that confuses me even more. (Win XP 32 and 64 Bit) <F6> ??

Headache.
m
0
l
April 12, 2013 7:57:09 PM

Hi,

Thanks for all the help and your own work.

With my GA-EP45_UD3R Rev 1.1 Bios Version F6, Window 7 Home Premium 64 Bit Installed perfectly by itself on a SATA RAID (1) Array.

No requests for any SATA Driver and it recognized the RAID (1) Array without a problem.

Thanks again to all who helped solve this for me on the Gigabyte Community Form, TweakTown Forum, Seven Forum and Tom's Hardware Forum (Storage).

No thanks to INTEL who never replied.

laopa
m
0
l
!