Removing the IHS -- 3570K

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marshallbradley

marshallbradley

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Sep 24, 2012
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Hi there,

I've been reading up about how the removal of the IHS and replacing of the thermal TIM leads to much, much better temperatures for the 3570K (like 10-15C, pretty crazy!).

Has anyone done this? I'm considering myself, but was just wondering a couple things:

- How hard did you find it (did it take a long time)?

- Did you feel it was easy to avoid bricking the chip?

- How big of a difference did it make in the end?

Thanks for the info,

M
 
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stickg1
Hey. I've delidded a couple of Ivy chips. So let's just lay down the need-to-know hard facts. And if you decide you want to continue then PM me.

1. Delidding your chip will 100% void your warranty. I have seen guys use too dull or thick of a blade, try to shuck their $300 CPU like an oyster, gouge the PCB or chip the die, thus destroying the chip, then glue the IHS back on and try to exchange the chip. This is called fraud, if you do this, in my opinion, you are an a-hole and lack a conscience. Own up to your own mistakes, that makes you a man with honor and integrity. (or woman)

2. Delidding is risky, but not difficult, if you have patience. Read as much as you can on the subject. I'm a member of a delidding crew that helps out many...
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manofchalk

manofchalk

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May 11, 2012
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There was one guy here who for a while wouldn't... be quiet... about how he had removed the IHS on his Ivy chips and constantly recommended it be done in any situation. Due to several inflammatory comments he made, I beleive he was banned. But he claimed massive temperature drops after replacing the thermal paste (and possible running it bare, CPU die directly to cooling block).

Never done it myself, way too concerned with killing a chip that has to last me for a fair while. The tutorials I'v seen are fairly simple, and there was a big difference in temps.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XXs0I5kuoX4
 
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inzone

inzone

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Mar 12, 2011
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You do have to watch out for outrageous claims, however it is claimed that if you want to overclock Ivy Bridge like Sandy Bridge you would have to replace the TIM that Intel applied with a better performing type.
Removing the cover on the cpu will void the warranty and you do risk damaging the cpu, besides removing the cover you have to clean out the TIM. This is not something that should be taken lightly unless you have a lot of money and don't mind buying another cpu if you damage it with this process.
 
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amuffin

amuffin

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Jul 29, 2011
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Yes, unfortunately that guy was banned.

@OP Don't risk your i5-3570K, because the money spent on getting a new one can be spent on watercooling.
 
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4Ryan6

4Ryan6

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Apr 14, 2002
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Just to add for the OP:

This is not something that if you screw it up you'll be slipping by Intel, if you take this action your 3 year warranty is gone no if's, and's, and but's, about it!

So before you even start to remove it settle that loss, it is a fact you will not be avoiding.

That said, CRC QD Electric Component cleaner, is the absolutely best for removing old TIM in tough places, and any auto parts store stocks it.

It is extremely flammable so don't use it inside your home, or smoke while using it, or breathe the vapors, it will clean to a factory pre-application state, and won't harm the cpu die.

If you decide to take that delidding route, Good Luck to you! Ryan

 
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inzone

inzone

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After watching that video it sure makes it look easy and you will notice how careful that person was in doing the de-lidding. The one thing the video doesn't show you is what happens when you slip with that sharp blade and scratch the processor die, or scratch the PCB. Also if you don't have the correct angle of the blade at all times you end up hitting the tracings on the PCB and there's a reason it's called a Printed Circuit Board, there are all printed circuits and just one nick and it's toast.
The end result is fantastic but the risk is great.
 
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inzone

inzone

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The gap issue seems to be well documented in the second link as being the issue with getting lower temps, however you still would have to de-lid the cpu to remove the adhesive holding the lid on to the PCB. Removing the adhesive would then be as risky as removing the TIM because you have to remove it from the PCB as well as the lid. The video that was linked by manofchalk showed the person removing the adhesive and not using anything to replace it and just putting the two pieces in the socket and letting the clamp hold them in place.
 
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4Ryan6

4Ryan6

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Apr 14, 2002
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FYI to all:

Regarding the gap between the top of the die and the bottom side of the heat spreader Timtronics Grey Ice 4200, would excel in that situation.

It is a thicker consistency but will pressure spread to literally nothing, and will also fill gaps very well and still highly perform, and not loose shape or melt away.

Some using Cool Laboratory Liquid Pro or Ultra may be getting too thin of a consistency, the heat spreader still has to make refit contact with the die, that's what the TIM is for to fill that space.

Most are not reapplying any type cement as that will lift the lid making the gap even further.

Pretty much all the TIMs I've seen in this delidding and relidding process were all used in the thermal compound roundup.

Cool Laboratory Liquid Pro and Liquid Ultra were designed for direct contact, they have zero fill ability.

The reason I feel so strongly regarding Grey Ice 4200 is all the testing I have put it through since the Thermal Compound Roundup, I also use it on my peltier cooling directly on the hot side of the peltier, and it has never lost its shape or melted away, and it has dealt with some serious heat on the hot sides of the peltiers.

So I know it can do the job, required to fill the die/heat sink gap on these Ivy Bridge CPUs.

Quote below from the Anandtech article linked above by "ihog".

the Intel stock CPU TIM outperforms the NT-H1 replacement TIM
Click to expand...

Probably because the Noctua NT-H1 is a thinner consistency, the same as Artic MX-4, Prolima PK-1, and the Zalman STG-2, their consistency was almost identical, while Grey Ice 4200 was a thicker consistency, it can stand in the gap and conduct the heat no matter how hot it get under the lid.
 
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4Ryan6

4Ryan6

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Personally I have no intention of doing this myself, however if I was going to do it, since I know I would be tossing my CPU warranty to delid the CPU.

I would first Lapp the heat spreader, and trial fit it to my water block base, then all the water block to heat spreader TIM used would be only a super thin micro layer.

Then delid the CPU.

 
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stickg1

stickg1

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Mar 7, 2012
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Hey. I've delidded a couple of Ivy chips. So let's just lay down the need-to-know hard facts. And if you decide you want to continue then PM me.

1. Delidding your chip will 100% void your warranty. I have seen guys use too dull or thick of a blade, try to shuck their $300 CPU like an oyster, gouge the PCB or chip the die, thus destroying the chip, then glue the IHS back on and try to exchange the chip. This is called fraud, if you do this, in my opinion, you are an a-hole and lack a conscience. Own up to your own mistakes, that makes you a man with honor and integrity. (or woman)

2. Delidding is risky, but not difficult, if you have patience. Read as much as you can on the subject. I'm a member of a delidding crew that helps out many first-timers over on Overclock.net, that thread was linked previously.

3. Delidding is successful not entirely because Intel used cheap TIM. Their TIM is decent, it's not as efficient at transferring heat as solder, but it's not garbage either. The biggest improvement is getting rid of the massive amount of black adhesive they used. Once you get rid of all the adhesive, the IHS makes firm and direct contact with the die. In fact, once you remove the adhesive, the lips of the IHS no longer make contact with the PCB of the chip. And if the die were lubricated you could actually make the IHS spin like a top. Anyway, along with a TIM with a high thermal conductivity (the weapon of choice is a liquid metal TIM like Coolabs Pro, Ultra, or I think there is a Phobya Liquid Metal too) the average temperature drop is around 15C. In my case I saw a drop of 22C.

4. Not every chip is worth delidding. 98% of people that would buy a used chip DO NOT want to buy your delidded chip. This is what I recommend that if your 3570K can't run 4.5GHz stable with 1.25v or less, leave it alone. The goal of delidding is to remove the temperature aspect, you will then become voltage limited. There is no official max voltage according to Intel. I've chatted with a couple of reps and they either say

A. Any overclocking or overvolting is dangerous and should be avoided.
B. As long as your temps are under tjMax (105C) you're fine. (this isn't true btw, ask people with subzero cooling who have killed their chips)
C. Max safe voltage is the VID that your chip runs at stock settings

http://www.overclock.net/t/1313179/official-delidded-ivy-bridge-club/0_30

The conventional method is with a razor blade.

The new method, increasing in popularity involves a bench vise, hammer, and a wooden block. See below.

http://www.overclock.net/t/1376206/how-to-delid-your-ivy-bridge-cpu-with-out-a-razor-blade/0_30


One more thing, the application of the liquid metal is the most crucial part. Everyone uses too much their first time, maybe even first 2, 3, or 4 times. I did. Think about how much TIM you would need to cover a tiny application like the die of a CPU. Well divide that by say, 5, thats how much you should use. It needs to be painted on so thin that it makes a mirror like finish. But I'm getting ahead of myself here.
 
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stickg1

stickg1

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Mar 7, 2012
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Here's a .gif that a guy in the Delidded Crew uses as his avatar. He did this with wet Liquid Pro on the die.

SpinningIHSshortfinal_zpsef4144d2.gif


But yeah, for TIM, what you want is something as close to solder as possible in thermal conductivity. That's why the liquid metal TIMs excel in this application. I would not use liquid metal between my IHS and cooler because it's a pain to apply, a chore to remove, expensive, has to be specially ordered, and the temps are only a degree or two better. But when you put it between a die and an IHS, it's night and day different than a conventional TIM.
 
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marshallbradley

marshallbradley

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Sep 24, 2012
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Wow that is some fantastic info and links there Stick1g! Thanks!

Good thing people mentioned it's the removal of the black glue rather than the TIM, because I'd read it was better to leave the glue on.

That method with the vice looks slightly safer. I have two weeks before I have access to my 3570K again, so I'll think about it..

M
 
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