PC shutdown when playing Battlefield3

Jumadax

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Feb 24, 2013
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Hi, I have been playing BF3 for a few months now on the same setting without a problem, until a few days ago when the PC turned off just 30 minutes into the game (multiplayer).

Before I continue, here are my computer specs (NOTHING is overclocked):

CPU = i7 920
MB = P6T SE
Ram = kingston 6GB DDR3 hyperx T1 1066
PSU = OCZ 800w
Graphics = Radeon 5850 crossfire*

So the problem happened three times now, and the computer simply restarts

So I downloaded speedfan to check if its a heat issue

temps on idle:

System = 36 C
CPU = 40-45 C
GPU 1 = 35 C
GPU 2 = 0 C

temps While playing BF3

System = 41-46 C
CPU = 60-75 C
GPU 1 = 60 C (note I manually set fan to 60% when playing)
GPU 2 = 40 C (note I manually set fan to 30% when playing)

So I assumed its a CPU heat problem as I am using the i7 920 stock fan, so I took some steps:

- I decided to apply thermal paste to see if it helps the problem

CPU temp when idle after apply thermal paste = 39 C - 44 C
CPU temp when load after apply thermal paste = 58 C - 73 C

- I then decided to replace the fan, so I purchased the NH-U12P SE2

CPU temps with NH-U12P SE2 idle = 34 C - 40 C
CPU temps with NH-U12P SE2 load = 50 C - 56 C

I expected more results from this fan at idle, however with it I never saw the CPU go past 60 C when on load so thats a good thing...

But the problem still happened, there was a still a shut down / restart

I was never able to see where the heat problem came from as the computer shut down, I really wanted to know what was the most heated part

I have seen my 1st GPU jump to 75 C or 80 C before dropping back to 60-70C range, but I read thats fine with GPUs

here is what I will do next:

- I have purchased an air duster to blow the GPUs.
- then I will open the NH-U12p fan and tighten it slightly more (even though I remember that I tightened it pretty well)
- I will then test with either one GPU at one given time (to check if one of the GPUs is causing the problem)

but then if all fails, I would really be lost as to what the problem is, So I need help to distinguish whats going on...

Also, is there any software that logs the heat temps and saves them by the second? I really need to check if one of my components sky rockets before the PC shuts down.
 
Solution
There should be no dust in your Pc. Check the heatsink and internal fans as well. If you use internal fans that suck air into the casing then try to raise the Pc off the floor away from the dust that does accummulate there. Vacuum around the PC as well.

TenPc

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There should be no dust in your Pc. Check the heatsink and internal fans as well. If you use internal fans that suck air into the casing then try to raise the Pc off the floor away from the dust that does accummulate there. Vacuum around the PC as well.
 
Solution

Jumadax

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Feb 24, 2013
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Hi everyone

So I got an air duster, opened the machine and cleaned the GPUS and PSU. (dust came out of both)

I then started the computer to test it, and the great news is that it didn't restart, this was after 2 hours of gaming and I got tired so I left it at that. Usually it shut down within 30-45minutes.

So i guess it was either PSU or GPU overheating issue

what I did notice was that my older GPU, seems to get a lot hotter and it also releases less air from the back where the monitor and hdmi outputs are. My second GPU released much stronger and cooler air at the back.

GPU 1 = fan at 70% (less air from the back)
GPU 2 = fan at 50% (strong air comes from the back)

I feel like GPU 1 fan is dying, should I open it up? or should I swap it with GPU 2 so that it doesn't have to work as hard and hibernate more often?
 

TenPc

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It seems like the dust was weighing too heavily onthe fins of the fans and making them spin slower. You might want to consider actually removing your fans and wiping them clean, any excess dust or grime can make the fans less balanced and may still cause them to slow down or work improperly.

Take a snapshot of the inside of the case so we can see whether you have actually removed the dust from the PC.. it's not hat we don't trust you but even a slight accumulation on the circuitry of the motherboard could cause heat issue. :)
 

Jumadax

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Feb 24, 2013
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@ TenPC, I will take a photo as soon as I can, and yes there are slight traces of dust that are really hard to reach: small amounts near the fans, near the hard drives, but nowhere near the motherboard and components

@ Photonboy I am using the HAF 922 case

There is a big fan at the front sucking in air
2 small fans on the side sucking in air
1 big fan at the top blowing out air
1 small fan at the back blowing out air
psu fan too
 

TenPc

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I think you got too many fans scking in air, it's not cool air either, it is quite warm and could be affecting the airflow from within (maybe). You really only need one fan sucking in air and only if your case is practically air tight. Dust can impact on the fins of a fan making it spin slower and unevenly especially ball-bearing fans.

The ram is perhaps 3 x 2gb @ 1066mhz, it's an unusual speed that is rarely acquired but not saying that is isn't compatible, it just might be slowing the cpu or in some way affecting the performance, you might need to up the ram to 1333mhz or 1600mhz. You should refer to the QVL before acquiring better ram, there is info in there that will be helpful in you choices. Apparently, XMP ram ram can only be used with one stick per bank.

CPU - Core i7 920(2.66G,L2:4x256KB,L3:8M, rev.D0,130W) it's only 2.66ghz, a rather slow performing CPU.
The CPu and the ram are both slow performance hardware, it mght be that they are not good enough for Battlefield 3 or atleast, high FPs for any long period of time

Most gamers would agree that an i5 would have suited you better than an i7 which is more suited to programs rather than high fps PC games. The video card is a high performance card that might be affected by the low performance cpu and ram. Also, 6gb is not much, you would be better with 3 x 4gb (@1333mhz).

I noticed that the motherboard (on the manufacturer site) has the second set of 4 of the 8 pin connectors for the 12 volt support power, covered by a plastic lid, if you haven't connectedt he 8-pin connector the that connection, that could severly impact on the performance of your motherboard aand may very well be the cause of your issues.
http://www.asus.com.au/Motherboards/Intel_Socket_1366/P6T_SE/#specifications

So, even after all that, it could be that you won't be able to play PC games at high FPS for more than a few hours without issues occuring.
 

Jumadax

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Feb 24, 2013
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TenPC

You are correct about it one way or another.

However I have been playing BF3 on this computer for 2 months, on ultra high settings too. I haven't encountered any fps drops or problems. Its like i'm playing it on console but with higher graphics regardless of my crappy cpu/ram

It was only recently that I have encountered the sudden restart issue, and this problem seems to have gone away after cleaning the PSU and GPU

so I assume that either one was overheating

Yes the ram is 3 x 2gb @ 1066mhz. (could I overclock it to 1333mhz??)

Funny you mentioned the 8 pin, I only discovered that when I was changing the cpu fan last week, prior to that I used 4pin only,I havent noticed any difference but now i'm using 8pin. I guess the cpu is getting all the power it needs.

here are my current temps idle
oh516c661e.png


So I think my computer is capable of running the game, but I had a heat issue that forced the computer to shut down. The problem is gone when I cleaned the GPU and PSU, I played for almost 4 hours this weekend, no problem.

I checked the temps and they were as follow:

temps after over 3 hours playing BF3 on weekend:

System: 53C
CPU: 55C
AUX: -3C
HD0: 31C
HD1: 32C
MB: 52C
GPU: 63C
GPU: 60C

I believe I should fix the fans as you stated, maybe some of them are not preforming as they once did.

but what do you think of the temps above?

thanks
 

TenPc

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I think your current temps are fine, you should consider an exhaust fan nearer to the gpu, though. Many Graphic cards do have temps as high as 75C, they just work better at higher temps. The overall temps seem good enough although they would be better at slightly less.

I'm not sure about your case, the newer models have the PSU seated at the bottom of the case whereas older models had the PSU at the top of an upright desktop case. Being at te top, a PSU with a side fan would be blowing over an open area but the bottom fitted ones would be blowing air closer to hardware and be possibly suffocatig the video card, and sound card and any other card fitted in the PCI (e) slots. Take your snapshots (it's a pain having to do so) and then we can see whether you have adequate air flow, ventilation, and circulation.

Computers are supposed to operate at a certain and differing temp, they all use electricity which is not something that is ever cold anyway. :/

I don't think the ram can be overclocked safely unless the ram is specified as OC.

About 5 years ago, the plastic cover on the other 4pin 12 v connector, I had that on mine, I had no idea is was actually covering anything, my PC guy actually warned me about it, so I always check for it now. The extra power is for the gpu and the cpu. I didn't have any issues prior to then, but I wasn't playing games just using Office apps.
 

Jumadax

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Feb 24, 2013
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the PSU fan which takes in air is facing downwards and sucks air from under the case, which I think is not that efficient but I have no choice.

this is the ram:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820104098

do you think its OC friendly?

Yeh I haven't noticed that either, and I've been using this computer for gaming and graphics related stuff with only 4pin. I'm glad nothing backfired there

I will take pictures tomorrow when the sun or light is up since its mostly cloudy here in UK,
 

TenPc

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That ram is only a kit of 2, you'd need a kit of 3 so you got a single ram and a pair, for 3 x 2gb.
Also, the ram is 2.2v, you should only use 1.5v, you can't overclock the ram, it is already way too much over the clock ratio for your motherboard.
Your issues are related to your ram being too high in volts, you might not notice the difference until you do something that requires extra performance (and power). You might notice pausing or occasionally freezing of the screen. It's like there is miscommunication between the ram and the cpu and the video card for a brief moment.

Edit - Hang on, that's not your ram, the one in the link is DDR2, you got DDR3 ram.
The "experts" say that you only need a pair of ram in triple dimm slots but I'd rather use the preferred triple kit of ram, for best compatibility.
 
Speedfan:
I never liked this program because many of the settings/results were incorrect. I'm not saying yours are.
*If the above settings are correct then the temperatures seem normal and fine to me.

RAM:
First of all, I see little point in recommending 12GB over 6GB for gaming. There are plenty of tests that show 8GB can have a benefit over 4GB (not all, just some) but going above 6GB is unlikely to provide much, if any gaming benefit. While it's certainly possible to use more than 6GB if you have it, there aren't many scenarios where having more than 6GB actually benefits game play as Windows would remove any non-gaming applications from RAM if it needed to.

Triple-Channel:
Most motherboards support dual-channel but yours is triple-channel. So it appears your RAM is installed correctly.

RAM SPEED:
You are likely slightly bottlenecked with 1066MHz DDR3, however that varies by the game, CPU and other settings. It's difficult to determine how much difference this makes. There's rarely any point going above 1600MHz.

Overclock the RAM?
No.
You purchased 1066MHz DDR3 and are running at that speed so don't overclock it. If you think faster RAM would benefit then BUY a new triple-channel kit and SELL your old one if possible.

IF BUYING:
I believe the (OC) in the motherboard part means if you overclock the CPU. For example, if you stick in a 1600MHz kit you need to overclock the CPU above 1333MHz (1600/1333 = .2) by 20% otherwise your "1600MHz" DDR3 clocks at 1333MHz. I've heard reports it doesn't always work the way they say, however that shouldn't affect what you purchase. You'll just have to experiment once you buy it.

So, if buying I recommend Triple-Channel, 6GB (3x2GB), 1600MHz memory (I like G. Skill) such as:
http://us.ncix.com/products/?sku=34719&vpn=F3-12800CL9T-6GBNQ&manufacture=G.Skill

RAM setup:
1) ensure BIOS is up to date
2) choose "XMP" if possible to auto-apply settings
3) If 1600MHz at proper timings are set you're good (again, I'm not sure if you would get 1333Mz or 1600MHz with stock CPU settings)

*I suggest you run MEMTEST and your games for a day or two using STOCK CPU and memory settings. Then, if you wan to overclock the CPU that's fine but you need to ensure to not overclock beyond the RAM's frequency. The CPU and RAM often share a Base Clock so that increasing the CPU base clock also increase the RAM base clock.

Not too confusing I hope...

(If I've made a mistake, please NICELY correct me. I'm getting frustrated with the rudeness by some people in these Forums. Cheers.)
 

Jumadax

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Feb 24, 2013
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@ tenPC

my bad, that was not my ram but it looks similar

here are the pics of what the inside of my pc looks like:

img1
kw516d7b7c.JPG


img2
ju516d7b84.JPG


you are probably wondering why I have the second GPU in the x4 PCIe. Only because the other x16 is just too close and the top GPU was getting awfully hot.

what do you think?

_______


@ photonboy

I dont think I will overclock the CPU because everything seems to work fine, I'm worried it might mess things up.

Yes I did read that speedfan was giving different results and might not be accurate compared to other temp softwares, but I downloaded hwmonitor and coretemp and they all give me the exact same results, with hwmonitor being a second late when reporting the temps.

*So if anyone else is reading this, I suggest you try different temp programs as some might not be that accurate for your hardware.
 

TenPc

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Hey, thanks for the pictures, it is a bother having to do them, I'm glad I only answer Quesations and not have to provide images..hehehe.

You've got 4 hdd's, 2 video cards, the PSU is bottom-based, and there si no extra space for air circulaiton. Basically, you got all that stuff crammed in like a shoebox.

The PSu top fan is blowing directly at the second video card that could impact on performance of the second video card. I think you need to get a full tower case. Having the side off the case does impact on how the fans behave for the cpu etc, they turn at slower ratios than when the side is in place but because when the side panel is fitteedm, there isn't enough space left for air to flow freely around the case. The PC cases that I use are 19cm wide, they allow for extra fans above the video cards, your case seems to be only about 12cm wide.

The first gpu could have been getting hot because you had left off the 12v connector to the motherboard, the other spare connector but. even so, there is not much space for ventilation or air flow. You don't have to crossfire (bridge) the video cards to get extra performance from the second video card, just having it seated in one of the PCIe slots gives the first video card extra video ram.

You can't monitor internal fans if they are connected via molex cables, you need to acquire proper fans that connect to the motherboard (fan1, fan2, etc).

On closer inspection, your PC case looks like a flat top design, it sits horizontally to the desk and is not really an upright desktop case, is that right? There seems to be a ventilation section in the "base" near the PSU.

What's that thing with the two blue circling "eyes", is that a cooler for the ram?

Overall, the Pc case looks too crammed, to allow proper air flow.
 

Jumadax

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Feb 24, 2013
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Yes my pc does look cramped and it is cramped, but the case: HAF 922 seemed just too big at the beginning I thought its more than enough

I have two HDDS only; but I left the things for the other two as not to get lost somewhere

There is no PSU fan at the top, this is what I attempted to explain in an earlier post but I need the pictures to illustrate it. The PSU fan blows air out of the back of the case, and it takes in air from the bottom. *note: under the PSU there is a blueish light, thats the light for the fan. At the top its just solid.

can you send me a link example of a proper fan that can be monitored?

the 2 blue lights are RAM fan coolers. They seem to keep the motherboard cool more than anything else really, by 1C, which is not much.

I regret getting the second GPU, I knew I should have upgraded to a single 7850.

what pc case do you use?
 

TenPc

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The Pc cases that I use, you can no longer buy retail, you'd only get them from Pc recylcer places or off the street (dumped). I'm not sure you can even buy a full tower with adequate width anymore, they all seem to be slim and trim.

Fans that connect directly to the motherboard - they use either a 2-pin connector or 3 pin connector plug. The motherboard (bios) then monitors the rpm of the fan. It can be a good way to measure whether your PSU is providing adequate power to the fans.
http://www.frozencpu.com/cat/l1/g36/Fans.html

THat's a good idea to keep you spare hdd's in the case however it does increase the overall weight of the PC (to about a ton!).

I'm not sure that ram coolers are such a good idea, ram works better when they are hot, they are not supposed to be cool at any time but. as you say, they don't seem to impact greatly on the ram and more likely cools the motherboard however, I think they are superfluous and should be removed to allow more air flow around the motherboard, you might want to start a new thread under CPU Category and ask about that, though.

If the PSU has the side fan facing the side of the case then your PC case is a flat top and not an upright desktop case which mean it must be sitting horizontally for the PSU side fan to exhaust any air otherwise, the desk would impede the performance of the PSU, causing it to get hot and could be the cause of the sudden shutdown.

You would be best to place "bricks" at either end of the desktop case so as to lift the case up away from the desk so as to allow more breathability under the case itself. Although I though it was a flat top case, it really isn't though, it's a tower but the underside vents are being blocked by the desk itself.


The Radeon 7850 would probably not be any better because of your slower cpu and ram speeds.

Disclaimer:
Sorry, I'm not really an expert, I just try to point out the things that might intervene in the running of a system but my advice is purely conjectural and you should use your own judgement as to what really counts as good advice. Although I've been building PC's for more than 10 years, most, if not all, of my PC's rarely date past 2005.