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first water cooling venture

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April 25, 2013 3:14:11 AM

Ok so im at work at the moment with no access to a computer so bear with me lol i spent all lunch break reading up on custom water cooling (including the sticky thread) and i think i have a decent grasp on it. Anyways i was looking on frozencpu at some kits. This one caught my eye http://www.frozencpu.com/products/18964/ex-wat-249/EK_L...

Anyways my main questions arr what is this a good kit and can i add a water block for a Gtx 670. And if i can add on to it would i need. Also can i get a recommendation on a resevoir? I feel this venture would go more smoothly with one. Also my case i a AZZA Hurrican 3000. Would this work in this case? Thnx in advance.

More about : water cooling venture

a c 103 K Overclocking
April 25, 2013 3:47:49 AM

As far as the kit goes, I'm not going to get in a battle with a fanboi and whether it's good or bad. The key here is the word "starter". These are basic components. Not high end longevity or performance products. For that price I think you may be happier with a swiftech, xspc, or closed loop kit.
Choosing components is sometimes performance, fit, or preference issue. A reservoir is fit and personal preference. Incidentally, that kit has a pump/res combo. Most kits do. Not all res have pumps built in, for a reason

As far as the case... how comfortable are you modding? Lol. Being that a hurrican 2000 and fusion 3000 exist, but not a hurrican 3000, hard to say what will work without knowing which you have. Assuming hurrican 2000, it has ports in the back to hang a rad externally. The top can be *heavily* modified to utilize that 230mm fan space for a 200mm rad. But really, anything you do will most likely need to be externally mounted.

Size of radd depends on your intent. OC or not, cpu only or gpu too. A 240 will do nicely for a stock or low oc cpu. If you want to add gpu, minimum 2 240 rads needed. OC? Time to look at 360 or 480 rads.

Hope this helps as a start. Give us a bit more info andd we can go from there
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April 25, 2013 4:09:33 AM

+1 to Buzz247

I've also spent countless hours reading and researching and though I don't have a custom look (too expensive at the end of the day) it is "almost" not worth buying these starter kits.

If you can't afford a custom loop ($600+ minimum) stick with air or a closed loop.

If you do have the cash to splash make 200% sure you can get waterblocks for your GTX670 as it may not be a reference board etc.

Good luck :) 
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a c 176 K Overclocking
April 25, 2013 4:32:20 AM

Wouldnt say you need $600 to get a loop started, you can easily build an upgradable CPU loop for $250. Then when you need it, throw on a GPU block (~$100) and another radiator ($50 at most for a dual rad, assuming there's already a dual for the CPU). CPU + GPU loop, $400 once you account for tubing fittings and other small bits.
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a c 103 K Overclocking
April 25, 2013 4:39:05 AM

Manochalk beat me to it lol. Don't scare off the poor boy zander :p  Case in point, http://www.frozencpu.com/products/17638/ex-wat-229/XSPC...

Decent product, includes fittings, and standoffs for external mount, and a pump on res combo INSTEAD of in res. And under 300. This would suit your cpu well. And can be built off of later.

***warning: this is addictive! Manochalk was there when I began my trip at the 300 mark. It is now at a 1500 mark lmao!!! I firmly believe in overkill for cooling
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a c 103 K Overclocking
April 25, 2013 4:45:07 AM

zander1983 said:

If you do have the cash to splash make 200% sure you can get waterblocks for your GTX670 as it may not be a reference board etc.



www.coolingconfigurator.com find your card. If it lists a full cover block, voila! You have a reference card and can pick any block of reference match from any manufacturer.If it doesn't, then you can pick any universal block, and make sure you get vrm heatsinks to go with it
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April 25, 2013 5:06:57 AM

Sorry, should probably have specified that I looked at a custom loop for cpu + 2x gpus :)  and in Australia where everything is more exspensive.
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a c 176 K Overclocking
April 25, 2013 5:21:38 AM

^ I'm in the same boat (island) as you.
Just today sent the order for a 7970, water block for it, PMP-500, a reservoir plus some other watercooling bits and pieces, $720 all up. Just lucky I had a buyer already lined up for the parts I was replacing, makes this upgrade a lot easier to swallow :) .
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April 25, 2013 5:34:04 AM

alright that was quite a bit read through lol i just got off work, and thought my thread was still going to be dead in the water :p  but like i said, im looking for it to be upgradeable so i can tack on my EVGA GTX 670 (and a second when when i buy it) right now my computer is cooling off of an H80, which is great and all, but i want to sort of prepare for the summer and get something to cool my GPU down with too at the same time. also do plan on overclocking my cpu (which is going to be upgraded to a FX 8350). and actually that kit that one of you linked was one of my choices, just didnt feel like linking to it from my phone lol and this is my case: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168... (i was looking at a youtube video and the dude said the case will hold up to a 360mm rad.)

also this is my GPU: http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/ite..., so as far as the water bock for that goes, would this work: http://www.frozencpu.com/products/16701/ex-blc-1190/XSP...
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April 25, 2013 9:39:14 AM

ok, so unless i find out some information that makes this plan physically unfeasible, the plan is to go this route. i plan on buying this kit: http://www.frozencpu.com/products/17638/ex-wat-229/XSPC...

a SECOND Gtx 670

2 of these for both GTX 670s: http://www.frozencpu.com/products/17638/ex-wat-229/XSPC...

and an 850w Corsair TX 850M: http://www.frozencpu.com/products/13843/psu-494/Corsair...

anything wrong with this setup cooling and power wise? what additional items would i need. wold the kit come with enough tubing and stuff to extend to the graphics cards? etc. i need an answer asap
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a c 103 K Overclocking
April 25, 2013 9:57:21 AM

2 concerns - I have dual sli gtx 670. These babies run warm. I would HIGHLY advise 2 360mm rads. I am on my phone atm so hard to determine if a 360 would fit well up top, but from what I can see board clearance maybe an issue on an rx rad. EX slim with pull fans may fit with minimal modding. The second rad you can hang off the back. You will need extra fittings for second rad, gpus, an sli water bridge, and extra tubing. But yes it can work. You will probably lose the top, if not top 2 drive bays when you install this.
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April 25, 2013 10:09:39 AM

Buzz247 said:
2 concerns - I have dual sli gtx 670. These babies run warm. I would HIGHLY advise 2 360mm rads. I am on my phone atm so hard to determine if a 360 would fit well up top, but from what I can see board clearance maybe an issue on an rx rad. EX slim with pull fans may fit with minimal modding. The second rad you can hang off the back. You will need extra fittings for second rad, gpus, an sli water bridge, and extra tubing. But yes it can work. You will probably lose the top, if not top 2 drive bays when you install this.


my case can do 1 360mm radiator. nad then there is a fan mount spot on the back that i could a 120 or something. and then there is a spot on the bottom i could put another 120.

edit. would the slim 360 work in conjunction with a double thick 120mm Rad on the rear exhaust? and i MIGHT be able to get another double thick 120 mm rad down on the bottom as well, though the PSU wires will have a tight fit. do you thin that wuld be effective enough?
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a c 103 K Overclocking
April 25, 2013 11:01:47 AM

No it will not be. Look at manochalk photo he posted. That 120 fan spot can be used to mount a 360. A cpu and 2 gtx 670 and oc the cpu... u NEED 2 360 minimum

You don't need a whole other kit. Just an extra rad (recommend rx360 for rear mount) fitting, tubing, and extra fans. So ex360 d5 kit, and a few extras listed above
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April 25, 2013 11:14:27 AM

Buzz247 said:
No it will not be. Look at manochalk photo he posted. That 120 fan spot can be used to mount a 360. A cpu and 2 gtx 670 and oc the cpu... u NEED 2 360 minimum

You don't need a whole other kit. Just an extra rad (recommend rx360 for rear mount) fitting, tubing, and extra fans. So ex360 d5 kit, and a few extras listed above


really? O.o if it can do this, its news to me. internal or external?
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a c 103 K Overclocking
April 25, 2013 11:50:26 AM

Both. Ex360 up top, rx360 off rear like manochalk. Kit has standoffs to do it already included.

Tubing path as follows:
Res/pump 》cpu 》top ex360 》gpu1 (sli block bridge) gpu2 》rx360 on rear 》 res

This is called a single loop setup. Most effective for your setup and most common
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April 25, 2013 11:57:26 AM

Buzz247 said:
Both. Ex360 up top, rx360 off rear like manochalk. Kit has standoffs to do it already included.

Tubing path as follows:
Res/pump 》cpu 》top ex360 》gpu1 (sli block bridge) gpu2 》rx360 on rear 》 res

This is called a single loop setup. Most effective for your setup and most common


so top internally mounted and rear externally mounted. got it. should the back mounted radiator be going down with the case, or above it? i know that sounds a tad stupid :p  but still, newbies should ask everything possible, cause you never know what is and isnt important XD


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a c 103 K Overclocking
April 25, 2013 12:06:04 PM

Scroll up to manochalk's post and click the project red-chalk link in his sig. Mount your rear just like his. Since your tube ports on your case are on bottom, I would suggest un mounting the rad during leak testing to be able to move it around and get air out. Otherwise, you would have to have long tube runs to mount the rad with ports on top. More tube means more flow restrictions.
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April 25, 2013 12:20:16 PM

Buzz247 said:
Scroll up to manochalk's post and click the project red-chalk link in his sig. Mount your rear just like his. Since your tube ports on your case are on bottom, I would suggest un mounting the rad during leak testing to be able to move it around and get air out. Otherwise, you would have to have long tube runs to mount the rad with ports on top. More tube means more flow restrictions.


ooooooh ok i see now. thanks. one more thing. do i NEED to install a drain? (another stupid question) and how should i go about this?
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a c 103 K Overclocking
April 25, 2013 12:27:04 PM

Lol if u keep reading his build log you'll benefit from his oops and see why the answer is a definitive yes. One of the first questions he usually asks is "how do you plan to drain" lol. A simple T line will do. Your res with that kit has a fill port built in
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April 25, 2013 12:36:18 PM

Buzz247 said:
Lol if u keep reading his build log you'll benefit from his oops and see why the answer is a definitive yes. One of the first questions he usually asks is "how do you plan to drain" lol. A simple T line will do. Your res with that kit has a fill port built in


ookey dokey then :p  thanks. well ill be back on here tommorrow as im setting it up (on a different computer of course) just incase i have any questions. hopefully you will all be as helpful as you were today :)  and hopefully i run into no problems... XD im expending almost 1000 dollars on this in total
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a c 103 K Overclocking
April 25, 2013 12:38:30 PM

Np. And ya... easy to do. Wait til u get the high end custom fan control bug. Another 700 waiting lol
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a c 330 K Overclocking
April 25, 2013 12:44:41 PM

To address the question about 'how many/what size radiators', there is a section of the sticky that specifically covers what you will need based on your cooling needs. It might take a few times of reading through this, but it all depends on total loop TDP needed to be cooled.
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a c 103 K Overclocking
April 25, 2013 1:56:44 PM

One issue I have with that guide (although it is an excellent starting point for research and wrapping your brain around the basic concepts) is it gives some false impressions of baseline. For example, it estimates the RX360 to handle 675w. That would be capable of 2 gpu (310) and a base OC cpu (135w). Reality is... a big hell no. Zero headroom, no mention of accounting for environment factors (ambient temp, relative humidity), no accounting for static pressure vs cfm fan choice, and certainly doesn't address possible issues with someone just headed into world of OC. Could it do it? Probably. .. wirh perfectly matched fan setup running full blast and pump humming at max - damn jet engine lol. But a tenant of most watercoolers is balancing performance and noise. Adding an extra rad allows lower pump and fan speed thus quieter. Plus more headroom for oh crap moments. Rule of thumb i read, and seems to hold well, 1.5-2x 120mm per component cooled. Unless I missed these things somewhere, really should be added
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a c 103 K Overclocking
April 25, 2013 3:39:23 PM

schmuckley said:
Open loop costs $170 and keeps your CPU cooler.6-11c cooler.(below ambient res water)
http://www.overclock.net/t/557313/rays-bong-build-how-t...


I have yet to see one of these that actually has numbers that stand up to testing. But get back to me in a few months... the GF wants to cool her new build with a bong attempt
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a c 103 K Overclocking
April 25, 2013 4:09:01 PM

quotemsg]

They work..res water is constantly 6-11c below ambient.I've been running one for almost 2 yrs now.[/quotemsg]

At idle? Full constant load? 6F sure I've seen that under load. 6-11C?? Um... thats huge delta! Would require at least an 8ft tower at 1500Lph

But hey, it's why I agreed to help her try one. Aside from fudgy math trying to be met out, I gotta figure out how not to make it look so damn ghettofied lmao
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a c 103 K Overclocking
April 25, 2013 5:09:44 PM

You should start a thread n send to me so we stop hijacking this one lol. I would love to discuss. I mean, a dial core running idle 95F, ibt 158F in 78F ambient and water sitting 58-65F? Who wouldn't want to discuss the real reasons for this delta. Btw... I have a dual core laptop turion rm-72 running these same numbets sitting on a fan cooler pad. If your water is really that cool, you should be getting much better performance. Open a thread n we can trouble shoot
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May 2, 2013 5:39:54 AM

well, a little longer then i hoped, but my water cooling setup is complete. ill post a pic or tow to this thread in a bit to show the results. the case door needs to be modded tho, due to the way the tubing is setup. my temps are far lower then they were when i was using my H80. im loving this,m and wish i couldve afforded to do this sooner. my average with the h80 was about 35 C, while my average with the custom loop setup is about 27 C. Playing Crysis 3 on Max settings 1920x1080 didnt bring my cpu higher then 36 C. and im pretty sure the same goes for my dual sli GTX 670s lol i need to get a program to monitor that XD
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a c 330 K Overclocking
May 14, 2013 7:16:06 PM

Quote:
One issue I have with that guide (although it is an excellent starting point for research and wrapping your brain around the basic concepts) is it gives some false impressions of baseline. For example, it estimates the RX360 to handle 675w. That would be capable of 2 gpu (310) and a base OC cpu (135w). Reality is... a big hell no. Zero headroom, no mention of accounting for environment factors (ambient temp, relative humidity), no accounting for static pressure vs cfm fan choice, and certainly doesn't address possible issues with someone just headed into world of OC. Could it do it? Probably. .. wirh perfectly matched fan setup running full blast and pump humming at max - damn jet engine lol. But a tenant of most watercoolers is balancing performance and noise. Adding an extra rad allows lower pump and fan speed thus quieter. Plus more headroom for oh crap moments. Rule of thumb i read, and seems to hold well, 1.5-2x 120mm per component cooled. Unless I missed these things somewhere, really should be added

The watercooling sticky does show the RX360 can dissipate that much heat because it can under ideal flow and fan conditions as proven by Skinnee and Martin. The biggest thing to learn from reading that guide is to determine what you specifically should consider for your own watercooling loop...not following a cookie cutter design. The RX is actually a low FPI radiator, so you don't need high static pressure fans, meaning in turn, you don't need loud, expensive fans to get the best performance. Running 3x or 6x mediocre fans can net you fairly solid results if you find quality parts at a value. It's also a fairly unrestrictive radiator, meaning your flow rate should benefit well (most radiators qualify as the lowest restriction components in a loop, depending on make and model). You also have to account that total loop load TDP isn't going to be 100% efficient when it comes to components being cooled. Power draw in watts and heat output in watts are directly to one another, but that is never 100%. So, as a general rule of thumb, I typically suggest in finding total loop TDP (including overclocks) and drop that amount by 10-15% or so on average. This will give a bit more realistic TDP sum, but still is likely to be 'worst-case-scenario' as you are extremely unlikely to run 100% load on every component for extended periods of time (except when stress testing or benchmarking). If these are your primary intent, sure, over-radding is a recommended idea. Heck, over-radding is almost a religion. But, in most cases you have more radiator cooling headroom than you likely realize in most radiators and most custom watercooling loops.

Humidity isn't the issue, it's ambient air temperature. Humidity and dew point is going to impact what you as a human perceive the environment temp to be, but has a smaller impact on actual heat dissipation in this scenario.

Also, if you use the radiator thermal coefficient table to calculate radiator needs and potential, you'll find that your assessment of around 1.5x 120mm rad space per component is about right (depending on specific GPU in consideration, of course).
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a c 330 K Overclocking
May 14, 2013 7:16:06 PM

Quote:
One issue I have with that guide (although it is an excellent starting point for research and wrapping your brain around the basic concepts) is it gives some false impressions of baseline. For example, it estimates the RX360 to handle 675w. That would be capable of 2 gpu (310) and a base OC cpu (135w). Reality is... a big hell no. Zero headroom, no mention of accounting for environment factors (ambient temp, relative humidity), no accounting for static pressure vs cfm fan choice, and certainly doesn't address possible issues with someone just headed into world of OC. Could it do it? Probably. .. wirh perfectly matched fan setup running full blast and pump humming at max - damn jet engine lol. But a tenant of most watercoolers is balancing performance and noise. Adding an extra rad allows lower pump and fan speed thus quieter. Plus more headroom for oh crap moments. Rule of thumb i read, and seems to hold well, 1.5-2x 120mm per component cooled. Unless I missed these things somewhere, really should be added

The watercooling sticky does show the RX360 can dissipate that much heat because it can under ideal flow and fan conditions as proven by Skinnee and Martin. The biggest thing to learn from reading that guide is to determine what you specifically should consider for your own watercooling loop...not following a cookie cutter design. The RX is actually a low FPI radiator, so you don't need high static pressure fans, meaning in turn, you don't need loud, expensive fans to get the best performance. Running 3x or 6x mediocre fans can net you fairly solid results if you find quality parts at a value. It's also a fairly unrestrictive radiator, meaning your flow rate should benefit well (most radiators qualify as the lowest restriction components in a loop, depending on make and model). You also have to account that total loop load TDP isn't going to be 100% thermal efficient when it comes to components being cooled. Power draw in watts and heat output in watts are directly related to one another, but that is never 100%. So, as a general rule of thumb, I typically suggest in finding total loop TDP (including overclocks) and drop that amount by 10-15% or so on average. This will give a bit more realistic TDP sum, but still is likely to be 'worst-case-scenario' as you are extremely unlikely to run 100% load on every component for extended periods of time (except when stress testing or benchmarking). If these are your primary intent, sure, over-radding is a recommended idea. Heck, over-radding is almost a religion. But, in most cases you have more radiator cooling headroom than you likely realize in most radiators and most custom watercooling loops.

Humidity isn't the issue, it's ambient air temperature. Humidity and dew point is going to impact what you as a human perceive the environment temp to be, but has a smaller impact on actual heat dissipation in this scenario.

Also, if you use the radiator thermal coefficient table to calculate radiator needs and potential, you'll find that your assessment of around 1.5x 120mm rad space per component is about right (depending on specific GPU in consideration, of course).
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a c 103 K Overclocking
May 14, 2013 10:28:45 PM

Wealth of clarifying info! Tyvm rubix. Jim - nice go and great results. A nice free monitoring program for your gpu is GPU-z. Not at home or would toss the link on

And yes rubix, I regularly worship at the temple of our holy overrad lol.
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a c 330 K Overclocking
May 15, 2013 7:59:51 AM

Quote:
And yes rubix, I regularly worship at the temple of our holy overrad lol.

To be honest, almost everyone that runs a watercooling loop...does.
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