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Questions about bottlenecking

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  • Bottleneck
  • CPUs
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April 25, 2013 7:35:06 AM

Hello, I have little nowledge about bottlenecking, only that you got to have a balanced system. I've read over the place, but, it still doesnt answer my questions, Is there any way you can tell what CPU or GPU will bottleneck each other? other then a obvious Pentium 4 with a Geforce Gt 640, If you could explain how to tell from the names, and other things, please do, and, if its not possible, i would like to know if a Gt 620 would bottleneck a intel i3 540...

Is it only possible to know about bottlenecks from experience?

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a c 111 à CPUs
April 25, 2013 7:44:43 AM

it could also depend on the software/game too.
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April 25, 2013 7:46:13 AM

rgd1101 said:
it could also depend on the software/game too.


Okay, so how exactly does this work? and what is the max graphics card i could put on the i3 540?
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a c 140 à CPUs
April 25, 2013 7:47:06 AM

The gt 620 is a low end card(>=integrated video) and would absolutely bottleneck that i3 in just about any game. To find a bottleneck you need an app like gpuz to check the gpu uages and also have task manager open(performance tab) then run a game if the cpu usage is low and the gpu usage is 100% you have a gpu bottleneck, if you have the opposite then you have a cpu bottleneck.
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April 25, 2013 7:49:03 AM

bignastyid said:
The gt 620 is a low end card(>=integrated video) and would absolutely bottleneck that i3 in just about any game. To find a bottleneck you need an app like gpuz to check the gpu uages and also have task manager open(performance tab) then run a game if the cpu usage is low and the gpu usage is 100% you have a gpu bottleneck, if you have the opposite then you have a cpu bottleneck.


So then, what your saying, since i got a geforce gt 620, Oc'd to a 630 in my hp compaq, with a i5 660, that the gpu is bottlenecking my CPU? I never thought that the 620 was THAT bad of a card...
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a c 140 à CPUs
April 25, 2013 8:00:12 AM

The 620 is barely faster than than an Intel Hd4000. The 610,620,630 and 640 were designed for HTPC's and entry level gaming at best.
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April 25, 2013 8:08:26 AM

bignastyid said:
The 620 is barely faster than than an Intel Hd4000. The 610,620,630 and 640 were designed for HTPC's and entry level gaming at best.


My systems integrated graphics was just the intel hd graphics, its worse then the 1000, so, I dont see why this graphics card is bad, but, my system's gpu usage is 99% in anygame, but, i haven't checked the cpu usage... is this a bottleneck, this is the best card i can fit into it, since its a LP card, and my form factor is a BTX, so cases are hard to find...


EDIT: Anyways, I would like to know, i guess i will put a different topic up, we've already got off topic, like i was saying, I would like to know how bottlenecking works, so i can tell if a i3 540 would bottleneck a geforce GT 620
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a c 140 à CPUs
April 25, 2013 8:19:05 AM

If the gpu usage is close to a 100% and the cpu is lower then yes the gpu is the bottleneck. The 620 is better than that intel card, but that doesn't make it a good gaming card. Depending on the power supply there are much better low profile cards available. The HD7750 is available in low profile and while its considered a low end gaming card its still a gaming card and is much better than a 620. You just need to make sure the power supply can handle it. There should be a label on the side of the power supply that shows it +12v rating in amps post that I i can tell you if your system can run a 7750.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
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April 25, 2013 8:28:10 AM

bignastyid said:
If the gpu usage is close to a 100% and the cpu is lower then yes the gpu is the bottleneck. The 620 is better than that intel card, but that doesn't make it a good gaming card. Depending on the power supply there are much better low profile cards available. The HD7750 is available in low profile and while its considered a low end gaming card its still a gaming card and is much better than a 620. You just need to make sure the power supply can handle it. There should be a label on the side of the power supply that shows it +12v rating in amps post that I i can tell you if your system can run a 7750.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...


The problem is, I have a slim line desktop, Its PSU is a 240W Speacial type, doesnt have all the rails, if i can remember correctly, I have a post where i talked about it... http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/362272-28-watt
Anyways, i cant remember my cpu usuage, It isnt 100% i can tell you that, i dont ever think it runs over 50%, Since, it uses all cores, 2 cores and 4 threads, I will update you, in about, 6 hours, but, since this is the best card i can fit, (since im in canada) its the best LP card here at Memory express. So, I hope this isnt bottlenecking, although, it should be normal for the GPU to be 99% utilized? Since, if its at 50%, thats horrible, isnt it?
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a c 140 à CPUs
April 25, 2013 8:35:33 AM

If the gpu usage is at 99-100% and the cpu is below 50% that is definitely a gpu bottleneck. With a 240w watt psu it may run check the sticker on the power supply if it can deliver 19a or more on the +12v rail a 7750 should run.
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April 25, 2013 9:40:55 AM

bignastyid said:
If the gpu usage is at 99-100% and the cpu is below 50% that is definitely a gpu bottleneck. With a 240w watt psu it may run check the sticker on the power supply if it can deliver 19a or more on the +12v rail a 7750 should run.


The problem is, last time i checked, recommended PSU was 242 watts on the extreme calc PSU site, like i said, i will try running GPUz and CPUz, or MSI afterburner and Taskmanager and check the usages, But, since the cpu can only go as fast as the GPU, that is fine for now, isnt it? or, would this be shorting the life of the GPU? Like i said, i will tell you in 6 hours, stay tuned, dont un-subscribe...
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April 25, 2013 9:44:31 AM

Here is a pic of the PSU:

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a c 140 à CPUs
April 25, 2013 9:50:15 AM

Not all power supply manufactures use the same rating system. For example my ax1200i is sold as a 1200w power supply and the 12vrail(most important rail nowadays) is rated @ 100.4a(1204w), The Kingwin LZG 1300 is sold as a 1300w power supply but can only deliver 83a on the 12v rail(996w). So while the Kingwin is marketed as being 100w more powerful than the Corsair, the Corsair is actually much more powerful where it counts. Its possible your 240w psu could have 20a on the 12v rail depending on how the manufacture rated it.
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April 25, 2013 9:57:05 AM

bignastyid said:
Not all power supply manufactures use the same rating system. For example my ax1200i is sold as a 1200w power supply and the 12vrail(most important rail nowadays) is rated @ 100.4a(1204w), The Kingwin LZG 1300 is sold as a 1300w power supply but can only deliver 83a on the 12v rail(996w). So while the Kingwin is marketed as being 100w more powerful than the Corsair, the Corsair is actually much more powerful where it counts. Its possible your 240w psu could have 20a on the 12v rail depending on how the manufacture rated it.


So, i sent a picture, if you looked at it, it shows that on the 12v rail, i believe, it said 1.4a? Please look, since i do not know where to look...
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a c 140 à CPUs
April 25, 2013 10:12:33 AM

You maybe able to run it, That power supply has dual 12v rail capable of providing 240w, with a 7750(45w max) and a core i3 540(115w max) and plus other hardware total usage is ~180-200w so as long as the unit can deliver is rated power, hard to say as hipro power supplies receive mixed reviews. However you said your gt620 is oc'd to gt 630 speeds and the GT630 actually uses more power than a 7750. Im thinking that if the PSU can handle the oc'd 620 a 7750 should work.
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April 25, 2013 10:20:16 AM

bignastyid said:
You maybe able to run it, That power supply has dual 12v rail capable of providing 240w, with a 7750(45w max) and a core i3 540(115w max) and plus other hardware total usage is ~180-200w so as long as the unit can deliver is rated power, hard to say as hipro power supplies receive mixed reviews. However you said your gt620 is oc'd to gt 630 speeds and the GT630 actually uses more power than a 7750. Im thinking that if the PSU can handle the oc'd 620 a 7750 should work.


Okay, by the way, this is my personal computer, the other computer with the i3 is a full size ATX, so, that shouldn't matter, well, Its too bad that the GPU is bottlenecked, I dont think i should take any chances, i also have a ASUS xonar DGX Sound card, so, yeah, the only thing that the 620 doesnt have that the 630 has, is a 128bit bus, the 620 has a 64bit bus, but, yeah, i will get back to you with the CPU usage later, I dont want a powersupply blowing up.... Hopefully your right...

EDIT: so the worst thing that could happen would be the powersupply shutting down due to to much power draw?
EDIT2: Also, isnt it needed 2 gb for Vram to play GTA-IV on high>
EDIT3: okay, answer to my first edit, seems like a person ran it on a 220W, and it ran fine, even Oc'd, so, that should be fine, But, I would really like to play Gta-iv, since, suprisingly, it runs fine right now, a few stutters here and there, but not that noticable, my only real concern is the wattage, and gta-iv ram usuage.... But, like i said, i will update you in 6 hours with the CPU usage, so, stay tuned
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a b à CPUs
April 25, 2013 10:33:15 AM

Xyloriuphon said:
bignastyid said:
Not all power supply manufactures use the same rating system. For example my ax1200i is sold as a 1200w power supply and the 12vrail(most important rail nowadays) is rated @ 100.4a(1204w), The Kingwin LZG 1300 is sold as a 1300w power supply but can only deliver 83a on the 12v rail(996w). So while the Kingwin is marketed as being 100w more powerful than the Corsair, the Corsair is actually much more powerful where it counts. Its possible your 240w psu could have 20a on the 12v rail depending on how the manufacture rated it.


So, i sent a picture, if you looked at it, it shows that on the 12v rail, i believe, it said 1.4a? Please look, since i do not know where to look...

14A
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a c 140 à CPUs
April 25, 2013 10:40:40 AM

^It shows a 14a(main) and a 12a(cpu) +12v rails. I was thinking its dual rail and the cpu has a dedicated rail, either way its a weird ass way to rate a power supply.

I dont blame you for erring on the side of caution, if it does pop it could damage other components not just the power supply. Vram usage depends on resolution and setting like AA. @gb of vram is required my gtx 580's have 1.5Gb and i can run GTA 4 maxed@1080p without issue, the game does have some hiccups but thats because it a poorly done console port.
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April 25, 2013 10:44:50 AM

unreal9400 said:
Xyloriuphon said:
bignastyid said:
Not all power supply manufactures use the same rating system. For example my ax1200i is sold as a 1200w power supply and the 12vrail(most important rail nowadays) is rated @ 100.4a(1204w), The Kingwin LZG 1300 is sold as a 1300w power supply but can only deliver 83a on the 12v rail(996w). So while the Kingwin is marketed as being 100w more powerful than the Corsair, the Corsair is actually much more powerful where it counts. Its possible your 240w psu could have 20a on the 12v rail depending on how the manufacture rated it.


So, i sent a picture, if you looked at it, it shows that on the 12v rail, i believe, it said 1.4a? Please look, since i do not know where to look...

14A


bignastyid said:
^It shows a 14a(main) and a 12a(cpu) +12v rails. I was thinking its dual rail and the cpu has a dedicated rail, either way its a weird ass way to rate a power supply.

I dont blame you for erring on the side of caution, if it does pop it could damage other components not just the power supply. Vram usage depends on resolution and setting like AA. @gb of vram is required my gtx 580's have 1.5Gb and i can run GTA 4 maxed@1080p without issue, the game does have some hiccups but thats because it a poorly done console port.


Yeah, exactly what i was thinking, but, i wonder if i should take the chances, although people have run it on a 220w psu, they dont tell if its a good quality or not, so, i guess i could be rewarded: Best redneck to run a 7750 on 240W psu in a Slimline case..... LOL

Edit: so in bottlenecks, is it stressing the components of the CPU or/and GPU?
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a c 140 à CPUs
April 25, 2013 11:01:28 AM

When testing for bottlenecks in gaming you want to stress both. Now some games are more cpu intensive or more gpu intensive, and you maye get one or ther other running at a much higher usage but aslong as ou are getting good FPS you are fine. If your gpu usage is high, cpu usage is low and the fps arent good then there is a a bottlenecking issue. If the cpu usage is high and the gpu usage is low and the fps aren't good then its a cpu bottleneck another way to tell is ocing the cpu will get you better FPS. Now if both cpu and gpu usages are low and the FPS isnt good then something else like slow ram, not enough ram, or possible a software issue is causing the bottleneck.
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April 25, 2013 11:12:04 AM

bignastyid said:
When testing for bottlenecks in gaming you want to stress both. Now some games are more cpu intensive or more gpu intensive, and you maye get one or ther other running at a much higher usage but aslong as ou are getting good FPS you are fine. If your gpu usage is high, cpu usage is low and the fps arent good then there is a a bottlenecking issue. If the cpu usage is high and the gpu usage is low and the fps aren't good then its a cpu bottleneck another way to tell is ocing the cpu will get you better FPS. Now if both cpu and gpu usages are low and the FPS isnt good then something else like slow ram, not enough ram, or possible a software issue is causing the bottleneck.


Yes, okay, i will let you know the usages in a while, about, 5 hours....
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April 25, 2013 3:22:41 PM

Okay, so i've got the usages, using perfmon, and taskmanager, when running NFS MW 2005, it never goes above 30%, for CPU usage, the GPU is still at 99% so, I will update with planetside2

EDIT: Usage with PS2:
(GPU)
MAX: 99%
MIN:95%
(CPU)
MAX: 62%
MIN: 1%

So, apparently, there isnt a bottle neck on Planetside 2
so, if i got a new GPU, would the CPU be more stressed? And, am i lowering the life time of my GPU right now?
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a c 140 à CPUs
April 25, 2013 4:15:39 PM

Planetside 2 is a very cpu intensive game, not to surprised by the results. Upgrading the gpu would still help, with a 7750 the cpu usage would jump up to 100% and the gpu usage would drop. As long as the gpu's temps are ok and you dont have a big overvolt with the oc you shouldn't be shortening the gpus life.
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April 26, 2013 11:20:45 AM

bignastyid said:
Planetside 2 is a very cpu intensive game, not to surprised by the results. Upgrading the gpu would still help, with a 7750 the cpu usage would jump up to 100% and the gpu usage would drop. As long as the gpu's temps are ok and you dont have a big overvolt with the oc you shouldn't be shortening the gpus life.


Yeah, well, i will get the card when i can, cant get it right now due to reasons, so, the upgrade will be probable in a few months. So, yeah. temps never go above 60, so, yeah, I will the system at it right now, although im sad i cant get atleast Medium on PS2, have to play 75% render quality, and low everything including shadows.... So, yeah, thanks
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