Maxwell Flagship 1st Gen vs. GTX Titan

gridironcj

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So the 700 series seems to be rumored to come out soon, which will be a Kepler refresh. Obviously, the GTX 780 will not be that much of a step up from the 680, if it is indeed a Kepler card. So the next single GPU to battle the Titan will likely be the GTX 880, the Maxwell flagship. I want your predictions: Will the GTX 880 outperform the GTX Titan?

Keep in mind, the GTX Titan ranges from 40-75% over the 680. Can we really expect Kepler to Maxwell to be that much of an increase? Obviously, there's a lot more to it than simply comparing benchmarks between cards. There's vram, power consumption, SLI scaling, and a bunch of other stuff that needs to be taken into consideration. My guess is that as an overall card, the GTX Titan will still be superior to the GTX 880 (or 780 if we don't see a Kepler refresh). Unless of course Maxwell is simply that amazing.
 

dujmovik

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Great Question !!! I would also like to hear some feedback !!

I am planning to upgrade my GPU..

Going for TITAN, gtx780 or gtx880!!!

which one would be the best solution !!???
 

SuperGamerBoy

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Try turning the resolution upto XHD and UHD resolutions and then you will realise how much weaker the gtx 680 is compared to the Titan.
As for me, i think there will be 2 versions of the gtx 780. One which will be weaker than the Titan with a 320 bit bus and some SMX units disabled maybe and a stronger Ultra version which will beat all the current gen cards(single gpu) hands down and the titan and the normal gtx 780 also but not by a very big margin. What do you guys think about it?
 
As said, a TITAN is only about 33% more powerful than a stock GTX680 (at normal resolutions).

A TITAN is closer to 25% over an Asus GTX680 DC2T model though...

If we assume there will be a 780 variant of the DC2T and that the 780 is 15% faster than a stock 680 we're looking at 90% the performance of the Titan with the Asus GTX780 DC2T.

Yes, it's all speculation though much of it a pretty good guess. If the Asus GTX780 DC2T cost under $600 it would be a little silly to get a $1000/$1200 Titan if (IF IF) it's roughly 10% or so better.

There are exceptions. Apparently the Titan doesn't have most of the micro-stutter issues even in 2xSLI but I bail out LONG before my graphics investment hits $1000.

People interested in SLI should pay careful attention to any "micro-stutter" or "frame time" benchmarks of the 770/780 because NVidia has stated the 700 series should improve on this issue.
 

drinkingcola86

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As speculated from a couple sites that Toms has linked this is kind of what we expect.

Titan Ultra = same clock as the Titan but with the full GK110 chip operating assuming a 5-10% bonus over the Titan

Titan = thing we already know.

Titan LE/GTX780 = Based on the GK110 chip but with somethings changed. I think it has 1 more piece cut but same thing operating with 5gigs worth of memory.

GTX 770 = What has been released is that this will be based on the GK 104 or a new GK114 chip. Looks to be an overclocked 680 with a bigger memory bus set to 384 bit.

GTX 660Ti = As with the chip not sure if it is the old GK104 or if it is a new GK114 chip. Performance between 670-680 is what has been listed.
 

gridironcj

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http://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/geforce_gtx_titan_review,13.html
Over 50% at 2560x1600. This is with a stock Titan, so if you want to compare it to a factory overclocked 680, it's only fair to do the same with a Titan, or simply use GPU Boost 2, which will add 15-25% in Titan performance depending on the test.

http://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/geforce_gtx_titan_review,17.html
Almost 70% at 2650x1600, 60% at 1920x1200.

http://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/geforce_gtx_titan_review,19.html
80% at 2560x1600. I should also note that antialiasing isn't maxed out in any of these, so the gap would be even bigger if we had MSAA x8.

http://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/geforce_gtx_titan_review,20.html
Enough justification yet that the Titan is definitely more than a 33% improvement over the 680? The gap is even more rediculous if we discuss 680 2-way SLI vs. Titan 2-way SLI.
 

deadjon

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The GTX780 is rumored to be the alleged "Titan LE"

It sounds like the GTX780 will feature the same silicon as the Titan with a slightly reduced Core count and 1GB less of memory, with a 320bit Memory bus

Source - http://www.brightsideofnews.com/news/2013/4/22/the-2013-nvidia-lineup-gtx780-is-titan-le2c-gtx770-is-gtx6802c-gtx760ti-is-gtx670.aspx
 

drinkingcola86

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To answer that question, the only leak that has happened about AMD's next version of GCN was with the comparison to a 7950 and the 8870. It showed specs that put these as an equal to each other or close to. However because nothing else has been leaked or said on the matter, there isn't really much to go off of.

For AMD it is usually the next gen mid range card performs in between the current Top gens 7970>8870>7950>8850. So you can assume that the 8850 should be above the 7970 but how much is unknown. As we have seen with the 7970 and 7950, these cards can be OC'ed by well a lot. It wouldn't surprise me if AMD put in some better power saving mechanics when the card really isn't being pushed, just to push it further while on work loads.
 

Anik8

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The maxwell gtx 880 will be way faster than the gtx titan as well as gtx 780(titan le).We're talking about a new architecture in a new fab here.The hd 8970 to me is a dark horse you know.Tech wise the taihiti chip was a marvel but it had its loopholes too.This time amd will be striking with a perfect product IMO.May be that's why nvidia chose to put a gk110 on gtx 780.
 

gridironcj

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When you throw the word "fanboy" into the argument, you've already lost. It's a senseless jab that is practiced by teenagers who argue about PS3 and Xbox 360. You're better than that.

Regardless, I could reference a majority of the benchmarks over the internet and my claim would prove correct. You have the right to criticise the pricing, however if you looked into it a little deeper, you'd understand that price per performance is a naive approach to pricing determination.

One thing to note first is that the Titan comes fairly close to a 690 in most benchmarks. In newer games that Nvidia takes the time to optimize drivers for, the Titan beats the 690Iin higher resolutions (Crysis 3 is an great example and a flagship game for graphics). Both are the same price, but the Titan has 4gb more of effective vram and it's a single GPU, so you don't have the SLI issues of a 690 and you have more room for expansion, which is very important for enthusiasts (you can only get one more 690 but you still have room for 3 more Titans).

You should also think in terms of what you're getting with the card. You get 6gb of vram, as already mentioned, GPU boost 2 (can increase your Titan up to near 1200MHz, quite a jump from normal speeds), and superior air cooling to the 690. Those justify a higher price of some sort.

Now, let's dive into something deeper: SLI pricing. This is where the price per performance will really make it's stride. 2 Titans vs 3 680s? Let's try to even it up in the vram category, so 3x 4gv 680s will come at around $550 (600 if you get the Classifieds).So yyou're looking at about $1650-1800 for the 680s and $2000 for the Titans. 2 Titans beat 3 680s quite easily and you still have 2gb of additional vram, so that should more than justify the $200-350 price gap. 2 Titans beat 2 690s and they're priced the same. 2 690s is illogical though considering you will be limited by vram.

Hopefully that will help you see another side to the pricing. Now 3 7970 GHz boosts may be bettee thab 2 Titans, but you're limitee to 3gv of vram and believe it or not, some games actually will break 3gb at 2560x1440 (Hitman is a prime example). I would say if someone isn't getting a Titan, they should defintely get a pair of 7970s, which is clearly superior to the 680 in all respects.
 

gridironcj

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I could easily say the same thing about cherry picking considering you chose one source (as did I) and said it is the best one, which is convenient for your argument. Are you saying that most of these other benchmarks don't use the most up-to-date drivers and don't use legitimate test suites? It must really be difficult to download the latest drivers for a series of benchmarks, but TPU does it! The games that I "cherry picked" are among the more demanding titles out there, which I would say is more insightful than throwing out an average that includes games that a 660TI can eat alive. Think a little more deeply about the figure you're throwing out before you claim your answer is the end all, be all solution. That, along with the childish fanboy comments, prove your ignorance. You didn't even bother addressing any of my arguments for pricing consideration. One who boasts they're correct without even regarding their opposition is, by definition, ignorant.
 

masterman467

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People don't understand that titan is not made to be run as the only gpu, its made to run in 2/3/4 way SLI. That is where it shines. 2 670's get more FPS then a single titan, but 3 way SLI'd 670's is not economical, and needs an uncommon MOBO to suport it. The titan is the fastest single GPU on the planet, it is over priced to most people, but for some it does make sense.
 


There are always articles that include selected benchmarks to make a product appear more impressive than it is, on average. I can't personally benchmark the Titan, however NVidia's own benchmarks as well as ones I trust definitely do not indicate that the Titan is 50% better than a GTX680 or that ballpark.

3DMark scores help with this. Game benchmark scores are also important but unless it's a fair average of games you have to be careful.

The 3DMark GPU score shows a 24% improvement of the Titan vs GTX680. Again, not the ONLY value you should use but it's part of the picture.

I'm not going to argue the numbers anymore, I'm just saying it can be very DIFFICULT to come up with a fair, AVERAGE value that indicates relative performance.

 


Agreed.
There's a reason it has so much VRAM and that's for multiple-monitor setups. Run three monitors and tack on 3D it's not difficult to come up with scenarios requiring a 2xTitan setup.
 
I don't have high hopes for Maxwell, if they reuse the existing shader tech then it will only feature more units but if it is different changes are the new tech will be weaker unit to unit than previous generations. The reason that I say that is due to Nvidia's little trend of making weaker units but with much greater counts.

At least GCN 2.0 is a sure thing and predictable unlike Maxwell that we know hardly anything about. Maxwell is most likely more fine tuned for HPC use than anything else and likely to be very memory bandwidth sensitive than Fermi or Kepler era due to vastly higher unit count.
 

Anik8

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The maxwell architecture is being based on the new 64 bit arm8 processors which has far more compute capability than Kepler's 32bit arm processors for slightly greater power consumption.Also those GPUs will be SOCs with a denver cpu inside,thus eliminating the risk of bottleneck.So it might as well turn out to be the other way around.
 

all stalked out

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I tried X-fire and it's not good, If you want to be able to play a wide selection of games with a twin card set up then AMD is not a good choice. They say there gonna fix the problem but how long have they been promising that for?

I've ended up with a single 7950 boost while I save for a pair of Nvidia's.
 
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