Upgrading P4 CPU issues - Need help

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mc_razza

mc_razza

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Apr 27, 2013
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Hi,

Newbie here so go easy on me, please. :)

I'm currently working on my own PC-building project with my old Windows XP-era PC from circa 2001. I'm not upgrading it for the sake of running W7 (which it *might* but I won't), W8 (which it can't) or use it for serious work/home productivity, it's just a project I'm doing for fun with the option of turning it into a home file-sharing server.

Original specs UPGRADES IN BOLD:
MOBO: DFI NB32 Rev.B Intel i845 rev. A3
PSU: Aopen 250W ATX-250GT
OS: WinXP Home Edition SP3
CPU (socket 478): P4 1.5GHz/256/400 "Willamette" P4 2.8GHz/512/400 "Northwood"
RAM: 1x 256MB SDRAM PC133 168pin 3x 512MB SDRAM PC133 168pin
HDD: 20GB IDE PATA 40GB IDE PATA (not installed yet, therefore the 20GB is still in use)
Video Card: ATI RAGE 128 PRO Ultra GL AGP 32MB Any suggestions?
PCI 1: 56k modem 1 port 10/100/1000 Ethernet
PCI 2: 4 port USB2.0


Now to my problem. After installing the new 2.8GHz CPU today the computer failed to boot up after powering on. I checked all the cable connections, made sure the fan and heat-sink was properly locked down, inspected the CPU pins to see if they were bent and double-checked to see if the thermal paste spilled over. Everything appeared to be a-okay. I switched back to the old 1.5GHz CPU and had no problems.

What am I missing? Have I bought a dodgy CPU? Is the CPU not supported by the MOBO? Does the BIOS need an upgrade?

If the MOBO does not support the new CPU, does that mean that according to THIS LIST I'm limited to THIS CPU as the highest processor my MOBO can support?

I'm completely lost here. Any response, suggestions and help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance. :)
 
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Guest

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[strike]Any revision of the 845 chip set supports the CPU you are using. [/strike] Find the model number on the CPU and check this list to see if it works on that motherboard.

http://www.intel.com/support/motherboards/desktop/d845gvsr/sb/CS-026968.htm

You may need to change the clock speed in the BIOS. If you can't do that, you may have to update the BIOS. If you already tried both of those things, you may have a dead CPU or your motherboard simply won't allow you to upgrade it. I recently tried a similar swap in a socket 478 board and the 2.8 GHz wasn't recognized. Of course, I have a Dell motherboard and Dell locks their BIOS making it near impossible to use any CPU except the one that it came with.

As for the GPU, AGP cards are hard to find. Any 128 MB or 256 MB card will do as long as you are getting it for next to nothing or better yet free. I was actually looking to upgrade an AGP system to HDMI and I found out that since supply is so slim, they are actually more expensive that a new PCI express card in some cases. One of the only HDMI AGP cards I found had 1 GB VRAM and was around $130. A comparable PCIe card can be had for under $50.

Newegg had a couple deals on refurbished IDE HDDs, a 250 GB Western Digital for $20 and a 160 GB Seagate for $12.

Just take that 56k modem and literally scrap it.

You do not want to spend any money on this I hope. If you look in the right places, you can get parts and even whole P4 systems for free. Craigslist and freecycle are a good start. A friend of mine recently upgraded all the PCs in his office and gave me 3 P4 PCs for free. All had hard drives, RAM, GPUs and worked perfectly. I even got 3 flat panel monitors. These PCs make good file servers or for simple web browsing. I had a newer socket 775 P4 as well that I turned into a HTPC using a $30 USB powered VGA to HDMI adapter which also converts the audio to HDMI. It runs XBMC very fast and looks great in 1920x1080.
 
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doxtor

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Apr 5, 2013
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the main problem of your motherboard is cpu compatibility,

DFI NB32-SC CPU compatibility list

Part Number Frequency Features BIOS PCB Notes

Intel Celeron

RK80531RC029128
BX80531P170G128 1.7 GHz 17 x 400 MHz, Willamette 2002/06/19 A

Intel Pentium 4

RK80532PC021512 1.5 GHz 15 x 400 MHz, Northwood The latest A
RK80532PC025512
BX80532PC1600D 1.6 GHz 16 x 400 MHz, Northwood The latest A
RK80532PC029512 1.7 GHz 17 x 400 MHz, Northwood The latest A
RK80532PC033512
BX80532PC1800D 1.8 GHz 18 x 400 MHz, Northwood 2002/06/19 A
RK80532PC037512 1.9 GHz 19 x 400 MHz, Northwood The latest A
RK80532PC041512
BX80532PC2000D 2.0 GHz 20 x 400 MHz, Northwood The latest A

source: http://www.cpu-upgrade.com/mb-DFI/NB32-SC.html
 
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mc_razza

mc_razza

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Apr 27, 2013
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Thank you guys both for responding speedily. :)

@jman9295
According to your linked list it appears (unless I've misread it) that my MOBO supports the new CPU. I'll have to check the BIOS version (whatever it is) to see if it matches.

Forgive me for my ignorance: you're suggesting I change the clock speed in the BIOS with the 1.5GHz CPU, take it out and replace it with the 2.8GHz CPU?

As for the HDD I have an additional 500GB SATA I'm looking to format (via SATA-to-PATA converter) and use if I go ahead with the home file-sharing option. The 56k modem is long gone. I replaced it with a gigabit ethernet PCI card. I've been looking at some 128MB and 256MB AGP video cards on eBay and yeah they're fairly cheap from between AUD10.00-50.00.


@doxtor
Hmm, that list is kind of confusing.
 
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G

Guest

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Does anything happen after you turn it on, or are you getting a black screen? When you said it failed to boot up, I assumed that you could at least go into the BIOS with the CPU installed. If you can, then the clock speed setting must be changed when the 2.8 GHz CPU is in it. When I tried to replace my 1.8 GHz P4 with a 2.8 Ghz, I was able to see the splash screen and go into the BIOS. I was not able to boot Windows. Also, I knew for a fact that the CPU was good because I tested it on another PC. Are you certain this CPU is functional? If you are, and since we know the chip set is compatible with it, it must be the BIOS. If the BIOS won't allow it, there is really nothing that can be done. Besides, for what you are using it for, a file server, 1.5 GHz will be just fine. Really, all you need is a good network card and big hard drive for that. And if you plan on keeping the system on for long periods or all the time, the 1.5 GHz chip will run cooler and use less power.

Regarding the video cards. For a file server, that really doesn't matter either. The original card will do as long as it works. A faster CPU or better GPU will not benefit you for what you intend to use it for.
 
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mc_razza

mc_razza

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Apr 27, 2013
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CPU fan spins, no beep and a blank screen. Not good.

I suppose there is no certain way for me to verify if the new CPU is functional as I have no other PC or access to another PC that I can test it on. FTR I bought the CPU off eBay earlier this month from a genuinely reputable seller. I'm considering the possibility that I've bought a dud. That or the DFI MOBO does not support it. As an aside, I am finding it extremely difficult to find any sort of support files for the DFI MOBO. It's like it almost doesn't exist on the internet. That or my Google-fu needs some work. lol

As you said, a faster CPU and "newer" video card isn't a requirement for a file server, however the primary reason I'm upgrading my old PC is as a doomsday backup ie. if my 2008 iMac breaks down, which it did last year after a HDD failure and essentially shut me down for a few days as I use it for personal, work and home business purposes. So yeah, that's why I'm upgrading the CPU because it's kind of sluggish as is. It's not debilitatingly sluggish but I'd like it to run a little more snappy. Not 2013 snappy but close enough. I won't use the old PC for productivity purposes while my mac is up and running but like I said earlier I'm looking to get some use out of the old PC in the present time as a home file sharing server.

EDIT: Is it possible for me to upgrade the BIOS and would this help in getting the new CPU running? There's no option to do this in the BIOS so I assume it can be done in Windows.
 
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Okay, I stumbled upon this list specific to your motherboard's model number (DFI NB32-SC) while searching for a BIOS update for your board:

http://www.cpu-upgrade.com/mb-DFI/NB32-SC.html

Note: there is no 2.8 GHz CPU on it. Now, you did specify that it is a Revision B and this list doesn't specify what revision it applies to. But, I would assume that this is pretty close to what your's is. The highest CPU on it is a 2.0 GHz with a 400 MHz bus. The difference in speed between a 1.5 GHz and a 2.0 GHz are not much even if it will be used for web surfing or watching videos.

If there is a BIOS update, I wouldn't know where it is on the web. Although most BIOS chips look the same, each one is specific to the motherboard maker. In rare cases, people have been able to use a BIOS that wasn't intended for their board but one from the same manufacturer and made around the same time using the same chip set. By upgrading it with a BIOS intended for a different board, they were able to unlock features not intended for it such as overclocking. You might get lucky, but it might be hard to find a BIOS update specific to that board (if there even is one) let alone one for a different board that will work on it.
 
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mc_razza

mc_razza

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Yeah, specifically Rev. B+ as it says on the MOBO and system board user manual.

The link is the same one doxtor posted but it's confusing. It lists 1.5, 1.7 and 1.9GHz as Northwood when according to THIS there are no Northwood CPUs that run at 1.5, 1.7 and 1.9GHz, therefore I assume it is supposed to be Williamette which matches up with THIS. Going by that it appears I'm limited to P4 1.5-2.0GHz/256/400. Of course the ever reliable Wikipedia could be wrong.

EDIT:
Re. BIOS

If it means anything to anyone the BIOS is (courtesy of PC Wizard 2012):

Manufacturer: Award Software International, Inc
Version: 6.00 PG
Date: 09/25/2001
Address: 256KB
SMBios Version: Unspecified
DMI Version: 2.2
Bios EFI: No

Characteristics :
Flashable : Yes
Socketed : Yes

Functionality :
APM : Yes
ACPI : Yes
ESCD : Yes
PnP : Yes
PCI : Yes
ISA : Yes
AGP : Yes
USB : Yes
PCMCIA : No
Smart Battery : No

Boot Information :
Selectable Boot : Yes
CD-ROM Boot : Yes
PC Card (PCMCIA) Boot : No
I20 Boot : No
LS-120 Boot : Yes
1394 Boot : No
ATAPI ZIP Boot : Yes

Features :
VT-x : No
VT-d : No
TXT : No
TPM : No
Intel ME : No
VA : No
SPI Flash : No

 
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I did not realize they were the same link. I found the DFI manufacturer web page and it appears that they stopped supporting the NB32 series boards.

http://www.dfi.com.tw/support/Download.jsp

The oldest motherboards that they have any updates or even any information on are Core 2 Duo.

I found a BIOS update for a NB32-SC board on this site:

http://www.fixdevice.com/drivers/file/26171.html

I downloaded the file dfi_nb32-sc_26171.zip and it includes what appears to be a flashing utility awdflash.exe, a .bin file Nb322525.bin which is the BIOS firmware update, and a readme file readme.txt. The readme file states:

NB32-SC/SL BIOS Release
1. File Name : 6A69VD4C.bin
BIOS Date : 08/03/2001
Checksum : DBC0

2. File Name : 6A69VD4C.bin
BIOS Date : 09/25/2001
Checksum : FD04
ECR Note : 1. just support PC133 Only.
2. support "Onboard Lan Controller" item use GPIO28 & fixed that S3,S4,S5 resume GPIO28 pull low.
3. Fixed that Palm PDA casue PS2 mouse fail in ACPI mode.

3. File Name : 6A69VD4C.bin
BIOS Date : 11/28/2001
Checksum : 42E1
ECR Note : 1. Fixed the ATA 133 HDD on BIOS Post.
2. Support S3 Resume with Beep.
3. Disable GPIO28 on S3 S4 S5 mode.
4. Add bioslock feature for Windows XP.

4. File Name : NB322124.bin
BIOS Date : 01/24/2002
Checksum : 129F
ECR Note : 1. support 136GB HDD.
2. Add CPU Temperture protect.
3. Boot sequence FDD--> CDROM --> HDD --> Others.

5. File Name : NB322525.bin
BIOS Date : 05/25/2002
Checksum : 010A
ECR Note : 1. Update P4 CPU MicroCode for 1.6A/1.8A/2.0A & Celeron.
2. Removed EPA Logo message.

According to the readme, the maximum supported CPU is still a 2.0 GHz P4. This further confirms what doxtor and I suspected: the CPU is not supported by your board.[strike] One good thing about this update is that it adds the ability to boot from a flash drive, apparently. That is if FDD means flash disk drive.[/strike] It could also mean floppy disk drive.

You can attempt to update you BIOS with this file at your own risk. Any mistake can render your motherboard virtually useless. This is a very delicate process that must be executed perfectly the first time. It is highly recommended that you do not update through Windows. The best way is to create a bootable DOS disk. In fact, the flash utility is most likely a DOS only program.

You can always try to return the CPU, but depending on how much you got it for, the return shipping might not be worth it. You can buy a 2.0 GHz compatible CPU for a slight upgrade also. I've seen P4 chips going for less than $5 shipped on ebay. I still think you might as well keep it as is and just upgrade the HDD, RAM and possibly get a cheap GPU. Also, you shouldn't really bother with the BIOS update unless you are 100% confident that you know how to do it.
 
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mc_razza

mc_razza

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Apr 27, 2013
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Apologies for the thread bump.


Thanks for your advice. Soon after your post I successfully updated the BIOS to the latest version (NB322619.bin 6/19/2002) via WinFlash.

Fast forward to last week when I finally found and bought off eBay an Intel P4 2GHz/512/400 CPU SL6GQ. I made absolutely sure it was a compatible CPU because, like what was pointed out in a prior BIOS update (NB322525.bin 05/25/2002), the mobo now supports upto 2.0GHz as referenced HERE.

Today I received the CPU in the post, opened it, inspected it and then installed it. Guess what? The computer failed to boot up. I got power and a second hard drive spun up but there was no beep like normal, no spinning of the boot drive and no image on the screen. I'm fairly certain I didn't buy a dud CPU but I cannot understand why the computer failed to boot despite having a compatible CPU and supported BIOS update.

What went wrong? Is it possible my original CPU is locked to the mobo or vice versa? Can anyone explain to me what's going on and what's going wrong? Is there any avenue for me to go forward or am I stuck?

Again, yes, it's not too much of a big deal as my old PC is just primarily a networked file server and backup PC so a relatively minor CPU upgrade won't have much impact as far as networked file sharing is concerned in the grand scheme of things, HOWEVER the fact is I am invested in upgrading the old PC and I would like to know why I'm having this CPU problem.

Once again I'm completely lost here. Any response, suggestions and help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance. :)
 
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mc_razza

mc_razza

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I'm thinking that too, but if that's the case then why would the update support notes specifically reference Northwood CPU compatibility (1.6A, 1.8A and 2.0A)?

It's possible that the update ONLY supports 1.6A, 1.8A and 2.0A Northwood CPUs because the sSpec number of the Northwood CPU I bought is SL6GQ, which is the 2.0GHz model not the 2.0A GHz model. See HERE for more. However, the 2.0GHz and 2.0A GHz models have the same part numbers although different core stepping and fractionally different voltage and TDP.

Again, it's all very confusing.

Anyone care to share their thoughts?
 
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RobCrezz

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To be fair, the references you are using for your information aren't "concrete". If its not from the manufacturer then its potentially incorrect (and even from the manufacturer..).

I would bet that as you say, it would need to be the 2.0A. Getting a Willamette version would be an even safer bet.
 
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mc_razza

mc_razza

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I was about to post that. heh

Yeah, it's a personal project I'm doing mostly for fun and my own personal education but also to repurpose an old PC that prior to last April had been in storage for 5 years and bring it back to life as a home file sharing server.

It's a bit difficult finding a 2.0GHz Williamette and 2.0A GHz Northwood CPU online locally. I found a couple of cheap-ish units from sellers in the US but the international postage to Australia blows out to 10 times the cost of the item itself. Not exactly worth it for a 11-year-old CPU.

Anyway thanks for your suggestions and input, Rob. You've been helpful. :)

-------------------------------------------

Okay, this is a loooong shot but does anybody here have a P4 2.0GHz Williamette or a 2.0A GHz Northwood CPU and are willing to trade, sell, swap or offer for free?
 
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