PSU for a gaming machine

Hi everyone, Needed your help with the selection of a PSU. The ones available in market are Cooler Master GX series and the Corsair VS series.

I will be needing a 650 WATT power supply. Although the card, that I have selected is a GTX 660Ti which requires a 450Watt PSU but as part of planning for the future I will be going for a 650 WATT PSU. 650 watt products in my market include the
Corsair VS 650
Cooler MAster GX 650.

I wont be using a SLI or Crossfire setup or overclocking. As such I wont buy a 750W or higher PSU.

Needed you help.
48 answers Last reply
More about psu gaming machine
  1. avoid the cooler master, they have bad rep, not sure if they are ok now but there are lots of other choices so take those instead
  2. Thank you for the reply. The issue is that the only PSUs in the 600-650Watt category available in my market are either Cooler MAster or Corsair. And the only corsair product in my market in this category is the VS 650. What would you sugget?
  3. haris25 said:
    Thank you for the reply. The issue is that the only PSUs in the 600-650Watt category available in my market are either Cooler MAster or Corsair. And the only corsair product in my market in this category is the VS 650. What would you sugget?



    I don't think that Corsair makes a "VS 650." They make a TX 650 and a GS 600 and a CX 600 and a HX 650. Any of these would be the better choice. Corsair really backs their products and the PSUs are some of the best available. I have not read a bad review on a Corsair PSU. The TX 650 and the HX 650 would be the best choices if your budget allows (they are more expensive).

    If you are going to use multiple GPUs in crossfire or SLI look at the Corsair HX 850.
  4. corsair sells great psu's (some of their products are made by Seasonic, my favorite)
  5. If you aren't going CF/SLI, you don't need a 650W PSU. A GOOD 450-500W will do fine.

    Any 80bronze rated units where you are?
  6. 4745454b said:
    If you aren't going CF/SLI, you don't need a 650W PSU. A GOOD 450-500W will do fine.

    Any 80bronze rated units where you are?


    Most GPU / CPU combos draw 250W - 300W depending on many factors and add another GPU and you are way past the capacity of a 450W PSU. A 650W PSU would be a minimum for crossfire or SLI and I would not recommend that small a PSU.

    The Corsair CX 600 is dirt cheap (something like $70) and it would provide plenty of power for a single GPU. The TX 650 is also a good choice and is a step up from the CX 600.

    I am not a fan of 450W - 500W PSUs simply because they are not much cheaper than something like the Corsair CX 600. Plus they tend to have quality control problems and they leave you no room to upgrade. I have had problems with low wattage PSUs.

    You probably could run a 2-GPU build off of the Corsair TX 650 although I would not recommend it.
  7. Did you read the OP?

    Quote:
    I wont be using a SLI or Crossfire setup or overclocking.


    He already said only one GPU. 300W for a beefy GPU and CPU, maybe a bit more for the rest of the system. When I researched my 7950 the system draw is around 325W depending on which card. We don't know anything about his system, but I'm guessing from the lower end PSUs he's looking at it's not a huge system. A 500W Corsair will power a 7950 just fine.
  8. 4745454b said:
    Did you read the OP?

    Quote:
    I wont be using a SLI or Crossfire setup or overclocking.


    He already said only one GPU. 300W for a beefy GPU and CPU, maybe a bit more for the rest of the system. When I researched my 7950 the system draw is around 325W depending on which card. We don't know anything about his system, but I'm guessing from the lower end PSUs he's looking at it's not a huge system. A 500W Corsair will power a 7950 just fine.


    Agreed - I say that in my previous post. However I don't like the 450-500W PSUs for a number of reasons. The biggest reason is efficiency. If you are running a single GPU build you probably are drawing at least 400W, maybe more. This means that you are maxing out the PSU capacity and this is never a good scenario.

    Also, many of the 450-500W PSUs don't actually supply that much wattage. You are right that Corsair probably does but still you have very little head room.

    All PSUs run most efficiently when running at 50% of their capacity. This means if you kick your PSU up to the 600 - 650W range, your PSU will run much more efficiently, quietly and will be more cool in the case.

    Add to this the fact that the Corsair CX 600 is something like $70 after rebates and I just don't see the wisdom of downgrading for a $20 saving.

    I agree with you and you are correct that a 450-500W PSU will run a single GPU computer. I just don't think it is the best choice.
  9. You say 50% like thats the only range. I think its around 50-80%? I know by 100% you are "allowed" to go back to your 20% load figures. 75% or so isn't going to be, or rather shouldn't be any worse then 50%. 400W? 7950W using around 325? Even using your 400W figure that's still only 80% of the 500W PSU. As long as we are talking about a QUALITY PSU 80% is nothing. Check out the torture test that HardOCP uses in their reviews. 80% load for 8hrs. Nearly always has same figures from their Test 3 which is ~75%.

    http://www.hardocp.com/article/2013/03/14/silverstone_sfx_st45sfg_450w_power_supply_review/6
  10. LOL, as an aside I don't like the 650W units. To much for one GPU, and not usually enough for two. (The new 80gold units are an exception.) 500W for one GPU, 750+ for duals.
  11. 4745454b said:
    You say 50% like thats the only range. I think its around 50-80%? I know by 100% you are "allowed" to go back to your 20% load figures. 75% or so isn't going to be, or rather shouldn't be any worse then 50%. 400W? 7950W using around 325? Even using your 400W figure that's still only 80% of the 500W PSU. As long as we are talking about a QUALITY PSU 80% is nothing. Check out the torture test that HardOCP uses in their reviews. 80% load for 8hrs. Nearly always has same figures from their Test 3 which is ~75%.

    http://www.hardocp.com/article/2013/03/14/silverstone_sfx_st45sfg_450w_power_supply_review/6



    I am not sure that you are reading AND understanding my post. Look up above again and you will see that I said that I agree with you that a 500W PSU will run a single GPU build.

    The OCP torture test on the Silverstone PSU that you posted verify what I am saying. It runs at 90% efficiency at 222W. From there your efficiency goes down hill and your PSU heats up. This would not occur with a 650W PSU because you would be near 50% capacity.

    You see the question is not what will work, the question is, "what will work the best." I size all my builds with a 50% over-capacity in the CPU. This ensures that my PSU will be running at maximum efficiency. The cost difference is very little to achieve this.

    My computer has a lot of components and so I actually went to the Corsair HX 850 because my computer will be using approximately 400W of power (2600K with a ATI 6950 GPU and other components). Yes it is overkill but my PSU only cost $144.00 and it comes with a 7-year warranty. I can easily run a second GPU AND overclock with this GPU and I don't have to buy a bigger one to do it.

    Also, as I said before, because the smaller PSUs are used by mass builders like Dell, they often run into quality control problems. Dell gambles that the 450W PSUs they put in their computers won't burn out their components before the warranty is up.

    Reasonable people can disagree. My Corsair HX 850 runs silent and cool in my case and according to the reviews I have read, it is running at 92%-93% efficiency. It is one of the most stable PSUs on the market. To me that is worth an extra $50-$75. Not everyone feels the same way.
  12. 4745454b said:
    LOL, as an aside I don't like the 650W units. To much for one GPU, and not usually enough for two. (The new 80gold units are an exception.) 500W for one GPU, 750+ for duals.


    If you are backing a 500W for one GPU, then you logically think that a 650W PSU will run two GPUs. Your GPU / CPU draw would be 500 -550W approximately (depending on a number of factors). If you are not running a lot of fans the 650W will carry a two GPU build but not with much headroom. It will be close to the headroom for the 500W PSU build you are recommending.
  13. You've got load locked up, but what about idle? A machine at idlelow load should be around 100W. For a 500W, this is 20%. For 650W, this is 15%. I'd rather have the slightly lower load efficiency for the better idle. Not to mention "my" 500W unit is probably a bit cheaper then "your" 650W. (Though sales can/will change this.)
  14. 4745454b said:
    You've got load locked up, but what about idle? A machine at idlelow load should be around 100W. For a 500W, this is 20%. For 650W, this is 15%. I'd rather have the slightly lower load efficiency for the better idle. Not to mention "my" 500W unit is probably a bit cheaper then "your" 650W. (Though sales can/will change this.)


    That is a good point and I did think of this. With my own PSU, the Corsair HX 850, as the load drops to 30% the efficiency only drops to around 91% efficiency and so I am covered. Remember that just your CPU, GPU, fans and CPU cooler will easily bring you to the 300W level and can quickly go higher. Most computers don't spend much time at idle - at least mine doesn't.

    But if you do size your PSU at 50% over-capacity as I did, you have to make sure that your PSU has a wide enough efficiency range so that if you do drop down to 30% capacity (which would probably be your minimum) your efficiency doesn't go through the floor. With most quality PSUs this won't be a problem. Most PSUs are in their most efficient range from 30% - 50% capacity.

    The problems with running without much headroom are far more severe than the problems caused by running a 30% capacity. I am much more concerned about lack of stability, over-heating and high-fan noise than I am about losing 1%-3% of efficiency.

    Again, not everyone feels the same way and I understand that.
  15. Fans aren't going to bring you up to 300W. And by idle I didn't mean true idle, but also surfing and movie watching. With such a little load on the system, you'll be at 100W give or take while doing this. 850W? Lets see, carry the 1, what do we do with remainders again? ~12%? Though if you hit 91% then you probably have a gold PSU.

    You don't need to buy a PSU that gives you no headroom. But there isn't much point in buying a 650W PSU for a 77W CPU and whatever GPU he picked. Even if he went with a 125W AMD chip and a 7970, he is still looking at around 425W load. 550W is still only 77%. 650W isn't bad, but not needed. And assuming the 650W costs more, might be the wrong choice.
  16. 4745454b said:
    Fans aren't going to bring you up to 300W. And by idle I didn't mean true idle, but also surfing and movie watching. With such a little load on the system, you'll be at 100W give or take while doing this. 850W? Lets see, carry the 1, what do we do with remainders again? ~12%? Though if you hit 91% then you probably have a gold PSU.

    You don't need to buy a PSU that gives you no headroom. But there isn't much point in buying a 650W PSU for a 77W CPU and whatever GPU he picked. Even if he went with a 125W AMD chip and a 7970, he is still looking at around 425W load. 550W is still only 77%. 650W isn't bad, but not needed. And assuming the 650W costs more, might be the wrong choice.


    I am not sure that your "idle" at 100W is accurate. Granted I could be wrong but your GPU is always working a fair amount depending on your resolution and screen size and the CPU can run wattage up very quickly also. I have never measured the draw first hand but I have read reviews by people who did.

    If your idle number is correct than the 500W PSU would be VERY inefficient because they suck big time at low wattage draws in the reviews I have read. The better your PSU, the better it will handle low power draw situations.

    For example, the AX 1200 (and probably the 1200i also) will run at nearly 88% efficiency with a draw of just over 220W. This is really amazing considering the size of the PSU. So the size of the PSU does not necessarily tell you how well it will handle the "idle" situations that you are describing. It is the quality of the PSU that determines how efficient it is a low draw situations.

    For example this Xbit review of the AX 1200i shows that it hits 90% efficiency at approximately 150W which is spectacular for a 1200W unit.
    The link is here: http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cases/display/corsair-ax-axi.html

    Conversely the cheaper 450-500W units do not function well at all in low draw situations and are severely affected. This is why I am hesitant to even recommend the CX 600. But my trust in Corsair quality pushes me over the edge to recommend this $70 PSU.

    I get what you are saying and you were right from the start, a 500W PSU will work. But it won't work as well as a AX 1200i in any situation, or an HX 850 or a TX 650 or a CX 600.

    A quality PSU is very important and people often cut corners with the PSU. I agree up to a point but that point ends at the $70 CX 600 (which can be bought on sale even cheaper). Different people can reasonably disagree.

    BTW, after reading the amazing efficiency number of the AX 1200, I would have bought it but I found a screaming deal on the HX 850 ($144) that I couldn't turn down. Now that would have REALLY been overkill but it would have given me 90% efficiency, a 7-year warranty and more than enough power to do ANYTHING I want in the future. And PSU technology isn't going to change that much in the future. I just say this for your amusement because the 1200W PSU on a single GPU build really amuses me lol. But there is no denying the numbers, especially for the 1200i.
  17. Gold and higher units are a different breed. In order to hit 88%+ efficiency at 20%+ they tend to be efficient no matter where they are. I haven't checked, but look at an 80Bronze 1kW unit. Check out there 10% load if you can even find that data. 88%? Probably more like 75%

    I'm about to dump my current PSU. I bought it when I hadn't nailed down what GPU(s) I'd be using. I bought an Antec 750Green. I wanted a decent PSU that could handle any two GPUs I threw at it. Problem is I settled on a single 7950. Now I get to dump my current PSU and get something more suited to what I need. And seeing as I have the money, I'm looking at a good 450-500W gold/platinum unit. As stated above, this should be way efficient no matter what I'm doing. Unlike my current 750W.

    Quote:
    I could be wrong but your GPU is always working a fair amount depending on your resolution and screen size


    If you are just sitting on the desktop or watching youtube, its very low. 2D clocks and built in functions to the GPU die are great for lowering power usage.



    While that 52W is for the card only, your CPU shouldn't be running very hard at all. Assuming a 77W Intel quad, I'd bet it would be at half if not lower. Even if I'm wrong, 52+ 40 + 40 for rest of system is ~130W. Trust me, running a modern system while just surfing or watching a movie doesn't use a lot of power. And I don't know about you, but most of what I do is surf or watch. I game a bit on my weekends so I need a PSU good/large enough to handle that. But not at the expense of what I do 80%+ of the time.

    Edit: Link to graph.

    http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/AMD/HD_7950/25.html

    Another way to look at it is to add the ~40W needed to go from idle to Blu ray to another site that lists the system idle. This 40W should be the increase in the card. Toms had their 7950 system idling around 103W, so 143W wouldn't be out of line. Sounds high to me but it is what it is.
  18. 4745454b said:
    Gold and higher units are a different breed. In order to hit 88%+ efficiency at 20%+ they tend to be efficient no matter where they are. I haven't checked, but look at an 80Bronze 1kW unit. Check out there 10% load if you can even find that data. 88%? Probably more like 75%

    I'm about to dump my current PSU. I bought it when I hadn't nailed down what GPU(s) I'd be using. I bought an Antec 750Green. I wanted a decent PSU that could handle any two GPUs I threw at it. Problem is I settled on a single 7950. Now I get to dump my current PSU and get something more suited to what I need. And seeing as I have the money, I'm looking at a good 450-500W gold/platinum unit. As stated above, this should be way efficient no matter what I'm doing. Unlike my current 750W.

    Quote:
    I could be wrong but your GPU is always working a fair amount depending on your resolution and screen size


    If you are just sitting on the desktop or watching youtube, its very low. 2D clocks and built in functions to the GPU die are great for lowering power usage.



    While that 52W is for the card only, your CPU shouldn't be running very hard at all. Assuming a 77W Intel quad, I'd bet it would be at half if not lower. Even if I'm wrong, 52+ 40 + 40 for rest of system is ~130W. Trust me, running a modern system while just surfing or watching a movie doesn't use a lot of power. And I don't know about you, but most of what I do is surf or watch. I game a bit on my weekends so I need a PSU good/large enough to handle that. But not at the expense of what I do 80%+ of the time.

    Edit: Link to graph.

    http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/AMD/HD_7950/25.html

    Another way to look at it is to add the ~40W needed to go from idle to Blu ray to another site that lists the system idle. This 40W should be the increase in the card. Toms had their 7950 system idling around 103W, so 143W wouldn't be out of line. Sounds high to me but it is what it is.


    Great post, you took the time to look up the actual figures. Going by those figures the PC would probably be in the 200W-250W range.

    I have an inherrant distrust of the 450W -550W PSUs because so many builders like Dell use them and they are mass produced very cheaply . This causes a lot of quality control issues.

    For example, Corsair's CX600 is an excellent buy bronze rated PSU but if you check the Newegg reviews a LOT of units arrive DOA and Corsair is one of the best out there.

    If you are talking about going to a gold or platinum 450W - 550W PSU, then yes you probably avoid the QC problems of the bronze units but again you leave no room for any real changes in your computer. Even more importantly, these units cost just about as much as a gold 650W unit or even my HX 850 if you catch a sale. So I don't see the value of a gold rated 450W unit and there aren't many of them to choose from.

    I agree with you and I appreciate your taking the time to look up actual power draws. In the reviews that I have read the 650W PSUs have a much better quality control level and that is why I think they are the best choice. They often don't cost a whole lot more and overall their quality is superior (in professional reviews). For 450-600W PSUs it is sometimes hard to find a single professional review - try finding one for the Corsair CX 600, I couldn't find a single review with a Google search.

    I try to read every PSU professional review that comes out as this subject interests me. I particularly like Johnny Guru's reviews (they are funny).

    You are absolutely correct and I have said that from the beginning, a 500W PSU will run a single GPU build, no doubt. My choice of the 650W as a base unit is based on a big-picture review of quality vs cost vs efficiency. There is a LOT of room for reasonable people to disagree.

    Also while I agree with the numbers you list for draw on the PSU, I am not sure that even those professional review numbers are always accurate. For example, I had a Corsair HX 750 with an I-7 920 single GPU build and incredibly, the HX 750 would ramp up to high fan all the time. Part of it was caused by the case not cooling well but part of it was actual power draw because this would happen when I had a lot of applications open. Professional reviews said that this PSU would put out 900W and remain stable and so I was profoundly disappointed.

    I distrust power draw numbers that we see in reviews because they are usually taken during ideal situations and they don't take into account inefficiencies, heat and other factors. This is one of the main reasons I like a lot of headroom on my PSUs.

    So the quality control of bronze 450-550W PSUs and my distrust of review numbers and the lack of reviews of lower wattage PSUs all provide a profound distrust in me of them and I am loathe to recommend them. Yes a lot of people (even Dell) use them and don't have problems but I don't like the risk factor.

    I know that my system which draws between 300W - 400W runs exceptional well with the HX 850 and it was actually CHEAPER than the HX 750 or many 650W PSUs at the time I purchased it ($144 after rebate). I have never even heard the PSU fan turn on (I'm sure it must go to low fan some time) - the PSU runs completely silent and cool. This tells me it is in its max efficiency range. The HX 850 is a gold rated PSU.

    For builders who can afford it, I would recommend the AX 1200i in a heartbeat and I would buy it myself if I needed a PSU. You simply would have a PSU that would last a lifetime (7-year warranty) that is over 90% efficient all of the time on any build you could dream of. But yes it is huge overkill I ABSOLUTELY agree with you.

    For people with a reasonable budget, a quality 650W PSU up to my HX 850 depending on what is on sale are all good choices that give me peace of mind. The 450W - 550W PSUs don't give me peace of mind and that is why I don't recommend them. I don't recommend what I personally would not use and don't trust.

    You make a very good argument for the low wattage PSUs but I simply don't trust them. Thanks again for your high quality posts.
  19. Quote:
    Great post, you took the time to look up the actual figures. Going by those figures the PC would probably be in the 200W-250W range.


    How do you figure? Idle is around 100W, how do you get 250W watching a movie?

    Quote:
    I have an inherrant distrust of the 450W -550W PSUs because so many builders like Dell use them and they are mass produced very cheaply . This causes a lot of quality control issues.


    Yes, if you are lucky. (most are even smaller then 450W.) But those are "bestec" or other such PSUs. Not Antec or Corsair PSUs that are made by Seasonic, Delta, or CWT. Big difference between OEM 450W and name brand 450W.

    The mod in me is starting to wonder if we are losing the OP and if he is even around anymore. It's been very nice talking to you about this as you've actually replied with some reasonable things and not just saying I'm a poppy head. A breath of fresh air I assure you. Buying a 650W might get you a few more % points at load, but I'm very confident that you will be hurting at idle/low load. It might depend on where you spend the most amount of time. (might also depend on what you need to run. If you are going CF 7970s or something like that, you have no choice but to run a 750W+ unit. Idle be damned.) As I often do I'm going to take the high road at this point and let the OP read and try to make up his own mind. 500W will be fine. It won't die as long as its a good one. 650W will also be fine. But assuming the 650W is more expensive, you don't HAVE to buy it. As mentioned a smaller unit will do.
  20. 4745454b said:
    Quote:
    Great post, you took the time to look up the actual figures. Going by those figures the PC would probably be in the 200W-250W range.


    How do you figure? Idle is around 100W, how do you get 250W watching a movie?

    Quote:
    I have an inherrant distrust of the 450W -550W PSUs because so many builders like Dell use them and they are mass produced very cheaply . This causes a lot of quality control issues.


    Yes, if you are lucky. (most are even smaller then 450W.) But those are "bestec" or other such PSUs. Not Antec or Corsair PSUs that are made by Seasonic, Delta, or CWT. Big difference between OEM 450W and name brand 450W.

    The mod in me is starting to wonder if we are losing the OP and if he is even around anymore. It's been very nice talking to you about this as you've actually replied with some reasonable things and not just saying I'm a poppy head. A breath of fresh air I assure you. Buying a 650W might get you a few more % points at load, but I'm very confident that you will be hurting at idle/low load. It might depend on where you spend the most amount of time. (might also depend on what you need to run. If you are going CF 7970s or something like that, you have no choice but to run a 750W+ unit. Idle be damned.) As I often do I'm going to take the high road at this point and let the OP read and try to make up his own mind. 500W will be fine. It won't die as long as its a good one. 650W will also be fine. But assuming the 650W is more expensive, you don't HAVE to buy it. As mentioned a smaller unit will do.


    Agreed poppy head lol (I'm joking of course)
  21. 4745454b said:
    Quote:
    Great post, you took the time to look up the actual figures. Going by those figures the PC would probably be in the 200W-250W range.


    How do you figure? Idle is around 100W, how do you get 250W watching a movie?

    Quote:
    I have an inherrant distrust of the 450W -550W PSUs because so many builders like Dell use them and they are mass produced very cheaply . This causes a lot of quality control issues.


    Yes, if you are lucky. (most are even smaller then 450W.) But those are "bestec" or other such PSUs. Not Antec or Corsair PSUs that are made by Seasonic, Delta, or CWT. Big difference between OEM 450W and name brand 450W.

    The mod in me is starting to wonder if we are losing the OP and if he is even around anymore. It's been very nice talking to you about this as you've actually replied with some reasonable things and not just saying I'm a poppy head. A breath of fresh air I assure you. Buying a 650W might get you a few more % points at load, but I'm very confident that you will be hurting at idle/low load. It might depend on where you spend the most amount of time. (might also depend on what you need to run. If you are going CF 7970s or something like that, you have no choice but to run a 750W+ unit. Idle be damned.) As I often do I'm going to take the high road at this point and let the OP read and try to make up his own mind. 500W will be fine. It won't die as long as its a good one. 650W will also be fine. But assuming the 650W is more expensive, you don't HAVE to buy it. As mentioned a smaller unit will do.


    You quick question, I have never seen idle loads as low as 100W listed in professional reviews can you tell me how you are computing that number. I an sincerely interested in this.

    Also in most good professional reviews they do a "low load" test which is usually around 40W-60W (or less). My PSU (HX850) was around 85% efficient, the AX 1200i is around 87% efficient at these low load tests. A quality PSU will perform at 100W. At 150W the AX1200i is 90% efficient. So depending on the quality of the PSU, you are covered for low loads. It is the cheaper bronze (and some silver) units that lose all efficiency at low wattages.
  22. Professional reviews for PSUs or GPUs? PSUs I'm sure you've seen, I know JG does them.

    http://www.jonnyguru.com/modules.php?name=NDReviews&op=Story3&reid=318

    Here is your stand by and low load test. I tried to find a review of a non gold+ unit, but all of those didn't have the standby tests.

    As for the GPU, here is what Toms found as their idle load.



    That's with the stock 7950 and an i7-3960X OC'd to 4.2GHz. Having a system idle of 102W is really impressive in this case. Obviously if you have a stock clocked CPU or one less powerful then sub 100W is very possible. What I had issues finding was load info while doing something basic like watching a movie or surfing youtube. The previous graph was as close as I could find. Most of AMDs current chips can hit the sub 20W idle so they should all be around this. This is why I'm not a fan of the 650W units. Because if its going to cost me more to buy it over a 500W, and if the efficiency isn't as good at this low of a load, then I'm just spending money I shouldn't. But we already went over that.
  23. 4745454b said:
    Professional reviews for PSUs or GPUs? PSUs I'm sure you've seen, I know JG does them.

    http://www.jonnyguru.com/modules.php?name=NDReviews&op=Story3&reid=318

    Here is your stand by and low load test. I tried to find a review of a non gold+ unit, but all of those didn't have the standby tests.

    As for the GPU, here is what Toms found as their idle load.



    That's with the stock 7950 and an i7-3960X OC'd to 4.2GHz. Having a system idle of 102W is really impressive in this case. Obviously if you have a stock clocked CPU or one less powerful then sub 100W is very possible. What I had issues finding was load info while doing something basic like watching a movie or surfing youtube. The previous graph was as close as I could find. Most of AMDs current chips can hit the sub 20W idle so they should all be around this. This is why I'm not a fan of the 650W units. Because if its going to cost me more to buy it over a 500W, and if the efficiency isn't as good at this low of a load, then I'm just spending money I shouldn't. But we already went over that.


    So the above TH "Idle Chart" is a measure of the computer with no applications running?

    Also, wattage aside most of the bronze and some silver PSUs efficiency drops very badly for PSUs of any wattage. So getting a smaller PSU in the 400W - 600W range does not protect you against loss of efficiency at low loads. The problem is that the lower quality PSUs cannot adjust to low power usage. I have read this problem occurring with some Antec units and I think one or two Seasonic PSUs which were bronze rated - but that is off the top of my head.

    If you go to a gold rated 450W -550W PSU (and there are not many to choose from and they are expensive) you do get better low power performance but you get the same low power efficiency performance from 650W -1200W gold and platinum PSUs from Seasonic and Corsair (I am not a big Antec fan). You see what I mean? It is the quality of the PSU not the wattage that determines it's low power efficiency.

    Here is the latest review for the HX 850 at Johnny Guru:
    http://www.jonnyguru.com/modules.php?name=NDReviews&op=Story2&reid=299

    Keep in mind that his efficiency numbers are usually 2%-3% lower than most other professional reviewer's numbers for some reason. The chart shows that my unit is running at 83.4% efficiency at 102W - this is for the "Low Load Test." Most other websites put this efficiency at 85% - 86% (I read every review on the planet before I bought the HX 850).

    Even with very limited use my computer will probably be drawing 175W which puts me in the 89.1% range (for Johnny Guru figures, which again are lower than most other professional reviewers for some reason). So you see I am nearly always running in the 90% - 92% efficiency range with a single GPU, 2600K, two optical drives, 2 HDDs, 2 SSDs, Nocuta NH-D14 cooler, 6 case fans, Hauppauge 2250 HDTV Card, Asus sound card.

    This results will be repeated with a high quality 650W PSU at 100W. Bronze efficiency for a 450W - 550W will probably drop in to 72% range at 100W (some go into the 60% range).

    I posted this Johnny Guru review to show you how a HX 850 will run very efficiently from the 100W - 200W range on a single GPU build. You are getting 84% -90% efficiency numbers - higher if you don't use Johnny Guru efficiency numbers.
  24. haris25 said:
    Thank you for the reply. The issue is that the only PSUs in the 600-650Watt category available in my market are either Cooler MAster or Corsair. And the only corsair product in my market in this category is the VS 650. What would you sugget?



    The situation here is a little bit different, since OP lives overseas somewhere, I seen people asking about Corsair VS and they were located in Middle East, I was looking for regular Corsair series there, but could not find any.

    So, stop suggesting what OP can not buy.
    Please come up with recommended wattage and I will look for suppliers locally.
    haris25 were do you live, which country? Last time I seen similar situation, it was Pakistan.
  25. Quote:
    most of the bronze and some silver PSUs efficiency drops very badly for PSUs of any wattage. So getting a smaller PSU in the 400W - 600W range does not protect you against loss of efficiency at low loads.


    But it does. Where does 80 start testing? At 20%. What is 20% of 500W? 100W. Where does a system with a CPU and 7950 idle? That's right. See the point I was trying to make? Yes, gold and above PSUs are more efficient over a higher range. Usually. But most silver and below aren't. So if you are worried about the idle range then you can't go big as you'll be sub 80%. I'd like to point out that even if you are 3% more efficient, how long would that take you to pay off the extra you needed to pay to get the 850W unit? I'd love to talk about that but I already said I'm out. Only chimed back in to talk about idle load. (Yes, the graph is machine at idle, just sitting at desktop.)

    Quote:
    So, stop suggesting what OP can not buy.


    This is a pet peeve of mine. (Mine, not toms hardware or BoM) people foreign to USA who come in looking for something, but refuse to tell us what is available where they live. If this is you, look around you, get the info, ask us which is best. We shouldn't be wasting our time telling you to buy something that isn't available where you are, or is but at a much inflated price.
  26. Hi everyone,
    Sorry for the late response I was studying for my exam as a result i did not review your opinions. The options regarding the PSUs that are available in Pakistan are as follows:
    1. Cooler Master GX 550, 650, 750 watt
    2. Cooler Master Silent Pro Gold 600 and 1200 watt
    3. cooler master silent pro m2 620, 750 and 1000 watt
    4. corsair gs 700 and 800 watt


    Other manufacturers particularly antec and thermaltake have psus are above 1000 watts.

    please note my configuration will be an i5 3570k, gigabyte mobo ga z77x ud5h, corsair vengeance 8gb, gou nvidia gtx 660 ti. a 500 gb hard drive.
  27. 4745454b said:
    Quote:
    most of the bronze and some silver PSUs efficiency drops very badly for PSUs of any wattage. So getting a smaller PSU in the 400W - 600W range does not protect you against loss of efficiency at low loads.


    But it does. Where does 80 start testing? At 20%. What is 20% of 500W? 100W. Where does a system with a CPU and 7950 idle? That's right. See the point I was trying to make? Yes, gold and above PSUs are more efficient over a higher range. Usually. But most silver and below aren't. So if you are worried about the idle range then you can't go big as you'll be sub 80%. I'd like to point out that even if you are 3% more efficient, how long would that take you to pay off the extra you needed to pay to get the 850W unit? I'd love to talk about that but I already said I'm out. Only chimed back in to talk about idle load. (Yes, the graph is machine at idle, just sitting at desktop.)

    Quote:
    So, stop suggesting what OP can not buy.


    This is a pet peeve of mine. (Mine, not toms hardware or BoM) people foreign to USA who come in looking for something, but refuse to tell us what is available where they live. If this is you, look around you, get the info, ask us which is best. We shouldn't be wasting our time telling you to buy something that isn't available where you are, or is but at a much inflated price.


    Yes I understand your point - you are going by the bronze and silver ratings. However, what I am going by is the reviews of especially bronze rated units (silver units are a toss up). The bronze rated 450W - 500W units don't do well at all with a 100W draw (they pretty much suck) - regardless of their bronze rating. Silver starts to improve and you have to read the individual reviews to see how they are doing at 100W draws.

    I see what you mean about idle but I am not sure why you are saying it. How often are you just letting your computer sit at idle? Why are you concerned about idle draws? I never have my computer at idle - never. If I am not using it I put it to sleep or I turn it off. I am trying to understand why idle current draw levels are relevant to our conversation.

    You are well spoken, I just don't understand your big picture point. The problem with going with gold or platinum level PSUs in the 450-500W range is that they are expensive and they limit what you can do if you do decide you want another GPU or if you add some HDDs and another optical drive and some fans for example.

    You pay a premium for the smaller PSUs that are in the gold / platinum range and there are not many available. The cost difference between a gold 550W and a gold 650W is usually negligible. So the 650W is the better choice because it gives you more headroom and both will produce equal efficiency at low wattage draws. The key is that you have to go by actual reviews and not their bronze-silver-gold ratings. If a 750W or 850W gold is on sale, all the better because they also will produce very good efficiency at low wattages and they give you a lot more flexibility and headroom. My build runs at 88% - 92% efficiency all the time with the HX 850 and a single GPU and the PSU only cost $144 on sale.

    Thanks for your posts, they make me think.
  28. haris25 said:
    Hi everyone,
    Sorry for the late response I was studying for my exam as a result i did not review your opinions. The options regarding the PSUs that are available in Pakistan are as follows:
    1. Cooler Master GX 550, 650, 750 watt
    2. Cooler Master Silent Pro Gold 600 and 1200 watt
    3. cooler master silent pro m2 620, 750 and 1000 watt
    4. corsair gs 700 and 800 watt


    Other manufacturers particularly antec and thermaltake have psus are above 1000 watts.

    please note my configuration will be an i5 3570k, gigabyte mobo ga z77x ud5h, corsair vengeance 8gb, gou nvidia gtx 660 ti. a 500 gb hard drive.



    Here is a review of the GS 700: http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/Corsair-GS700-Bronze-Power-Supply-Review/1617

    It does meet its bronze rating for efficiency and more importantly it is a VERY stable PSU so it won't burn up your expensive components. The 700W power supply is more than enough for your build.

    At 160W draw, the unit is over 85% efficient so it does well at low wattage draws.

    I would choose the Corsair unit over Cooler Master simply because Corsair backs all of their products better than any other component supplier I have dealt with. If you have a problem with your unit, Corsair will make it right - other suppliers often are difficult to reach and make you jump through hoops.

    Other posters on this thread might have some experience with the Cooler Master PSUs, I have not used one.
  29. Seeing as you're overseas I'd double check the warranty. I've heard they can change depending where you live.

    Looks like the Cooler Master Silent Pro Gold 600 is ok.

    http://www.kitguru.net/components/power-supplies/zardon/cooler-master-silent-pro-gold-600w-power-supply-review/4/

    Flong, I see your 85% at 160W and raise you 90% at 150W ;)

    I tried to find a review of the cooler master silent pro m2 620, didn't see one on the first few pages. You already have a review of the GS700, and I would avoid the GX line from CM.

    My person vote is whichever is cheaper between the Silent Pro Gold 600 and the GS700. Either should be fine.
  30. haris25 said:
    Hi everyone,
    Sorry for the late response I was studying for my exam as a result i did not review your opinions. The options regarding the PSUs that are available in Pakistan are as follows:
    1. Cooler Master GX 550, 650, 750 watt
    2. Cooler Master Silent Pro Gold 600 and 1200 watt
    3. cooler master silent pro m2 620, 750 and 1000 watt
    4. corsair gs 700 and 800 watt


    Other manufacturers particularly antec and thermaltake have psus are above 1000 watts.

    please note my configuration will be an i5 3570k, gigabyte mobo ga z77x ud5h, corsair vengeance 8gb, gou nvidia gtx 660 ti. a 500 gb hard drive.



    I don't know your budget, haris25, but for a little more you can get Corsair TX850 here http://www.czone.com.pk/power-supply-corsair-power-supplies-corsair-enthusiast-series-tx850-80-plus-certified-power-supply-pakistan-p.1614.aspx

    In case you need more suppliers look here http://www.pakgamers.com/forums/f67/links-all-pakistani-computer-shops-27122/
    You are already third person from Pakistan here for me, so I know your suppliers.

    Corsair GS 700 is more than enough for you, all wattage above this is overprotection, really this is the cheapest online I saw so far and it is available http://galaxy.com.pk/corsair-gaming-series-gs-700w.html

    FYI. You really don't need 660TI, 660 would do just fine, 660TI is just a bit stronger than 660, but this is your choice after all.
  31. Come to think of it, if we can change parts why are you getting the UD5H? I considered it, but went with the UD4H. Dual NICs is nice, but if one fails you should be able to buy a PCI/e NIC for much less then the UD5H costs over the UD4H. At least you can over here in the USA. My system has the UD4H, 3570K, and the 7950.
  32. Hi, The ud4h is not available in Pakistan. The only gigabyte boards available in Pakistan include the ga z77x ud3h, ga z77 d3h, ga z77x ud5h. For a complete list visit http://galaxy.com.pk/asus-motherboard-pakistan.html
  33. The UD3H isn't a bad board. Just doesn't support CF/SLI. If you won't ever run two cards at once you can safely move down to the UD3H and save a lot of money. I don't know about the other boards.
  34. Hi,

    You said that the UD3H does not support Crossfire or SLI setups. Please note that I visited the Gigabyte website for this board. It says that the board has support for 2-Way Crossfire and SLI setups. (PCIeX16 and PCIeX18). http://www.gigabyte.com/products/product-page.aspx?pid=4153#sp.

    What does this mean and how is the UD5h different from Ud3h in terms of Crossfire and SLI setups.
  35. My mistake. I could have sworn when I was looking at boards that the UD3H was a single PCIe x16 slot board. I remember considering the UD5H because it was the cheapest board that had dual NICs. But I wasn't willing to spend the extra money ($175 instead of $140) to get it. Does the UD5H get you anything that the UD3H doesn't offer? That UD3H looks like a lot of board to me.
  36. 4745454b said:
    Seeing as you're overseas I'd double check the warranty. I've heard they can change depending where you live.

    Looks like the Cooler Master Silent Pro Gold 600 is ok.

    http://www.kitguru.net/components/power-supplies/zardon/cooler-master-silent-pro-gold-600w-power-supply-review/4/

    Flong, I see your 85% at 160W and raise you 90% at 150W ;)

    I tried to find a review of the cooler master silent pro m2 620, didn't see one on the first few pages. You already have a review of the GS700, and I would avoid the GX line from CM.

    My person vote is whichever is cheaper between the Silent Pro Gold 600 and the GS700. Either should be fine.



    If the Silent Pro Gold 600 is available it is worth a look - gold rated PSUs are usually the best choice, but check the professional reviews to be safe. However, the silent pro m2 620 is a bronze rated unit and so be very careful if you cannot find any reviews. Bronze units are notorious for having serious problems and so never buy a bronze unit without checking the professional reviews.

    I have never owned a Cooler Master PSU and so I have no first hand experience with them. However I have two Corsair PSUs and several other Corsair components. Twice I have had problems with Corsair components and twice Corsair resolved the problem with a single phone call.

    For example, I had a problem with their Corsair Force 120GB SSD I had purchased and they upgraded me to the Corsair Force GT 120GB for free. At the time the Force GT (which has better nand memory) was nearly twice the price of Force non-GT. I was stunned at how good Corsair's customer service is. Corsair really backs their products and so I have not problem recommending them to others.

    474545 is right about checking overseas' warranties. I would be worth a call to Corsair and Cooler Master to see if they honor the warranties where you live and see if you can get service from them directly. It may be too expensive to ship a defective unit back to the manufacturer in the country you live in. When you call the manufacturer they will tell you if they service area you live in.
  37. Hi,
    Wont the 700W Corsair PSU be too much. I wont be either overclocking or using a crossfire/sli setup. Please note that I asked many of my friends and they were satisfied wth the performance of their Cooler Master PSUs. What do you say.
  38. What do you say should I go with Ud3h or Ud5h. The Audio hardware of the ud5h looks superior to the ud3h. Should i wait for the price to drop as the new z87 series will be appearing later in June or should i buy any if these two boards.
  39. haris25 said:
    Hi,
    Wont the 700W Corsair PSU be too much. I wont be either overclocking or using a crossfire/sli setup. Please note that I asked many of my friends and they were satisfied wth the performance of their Cooler Master PSUs. What do you say.


    No the GS 700 performs very well at 160W draw providing 85% efficiency (which is great for a bronze unit). So it will work very well for you. You need to check with the manufacturers to see if they will honor their warranties where you are at. You are looking at bronze units (in your list) and they have a tendency to have problems (from all manufacturers).

    Don't go by your friends, check professional reviews. With bronze units sometimes you are playing Russian roulette and your friends might have gotten lucky. You might not be so lucky.

    It sounds like from other posters that the GS 700 is the cheapest PSU also - but double check pricing. Corsair often has great sales.
  40. One final in question regarding the Corsair GS 700. What effect will it have on electricity consumption. I also need to consider the effect on my power bills :)
  41. Quote:
    One final in question regarding the Corsair GS 700. What effect will it have on electricity consumption. I also need to consider the effect on my power bills


    That's why I suggested the Cooler Master Silent Pro Gold 600 as its even more efficient then the GS700. Trust me, its a better PSU.

    Quote:
    What do you say should I go with Ud3h or Ud5h. The Audio hardware of the ud5h looks superior to the ud3h.


    It probably is, but do you even have speakers to take advantage of it? Having a great soundcard is meaningless if you don't have any good speakers that can replicate what the soundcard is putting out. I would get the UD3H and save the money. Spend it on a better GPU, or monitor, etc.
  42. Hi,

    I will be going for the UD3h and investing the savings in another component. I needed your advice regarding the Nvidia GPU. Please note that I will be using my old Compaq LCD monitor which has a max resolution of 1600X900. If i buy the GTX 660 will I be able to use the GPU with a DVI to VGA converter.
  43. You should. I think some of the cards come with a DVI-D port and a DVI-I port so you need to make sure you get the right adapter on the right one. I'm not sure about this. If it doesn't work, just move it over and try again.
  44. I checked the EVGA GTX 660Ti images on the EVGA website. It has a DVI-D and DVI-I ports in addition to the HDMI and DisplayPort Slots. Please correct me if I am wrong, I should make sure that I am buying the correct DVI to VGA converter.
  45. DVI-D only contains a digital signal. This means the common adapter won't work. It will work in the DVI-I port. That's the Integrated one that contains both the digital and analog info. DVI-I => Adapter => Monitor will work fine. If you want to use the DVI-D port you'll have to go straight into the monitor. DVI is common on monitors these days so it shouldn't be an issue.
  46. haris25 said:
    One final in question regarding the Corsair GS 700. What effect will it have on electricity consumption. I also need to consider the effect on my power bills :)


    474545 is right that the Cooler Mastster 600 Gold is more efficient. It appears to be a very good unit. The more efficient that a PSU is the less electricity it uses.

    However the review for the GS 700 show it is also very efficient, especially for a bronze rated unit. You probably won't see much of a difference in you power bill with either unit because the Cooler Master is probably about 5% more efficient than the Corsair GS 700.

    If the Corsair GS 700 was unstable, I would agree that the CM 600 Gold is the best choice. However, the professional review found it to be very stable in their testing and so I like the GS 700.

    Both units are a good choice based on the professional reviews but I prefer the GS 700 because of Corsair's customer service and warranty.
  47. Bought the processor (i5 3570K), ram (4gb Corsair Vengeance), hard drive (Western Digital 500Gb) yesterday. Buying the mobo tomorrow. Please note that one of the representatives of the shop recommended the ASUS P8 Z77 VLK mobo instead of the Gigabyte GA Z77X UD3h. What are your thoughts on this.

    Furthermore, the cooler master silent pro gold 600 watt is not available and the only cooler master PSU available in the market is either the COoler MASter GX series or the Corsair GS series.
  48. For the basic home user, probably nothing. Biggest diference you'd see is the UD3H has more plugs on it. (extra PCIe x16 plug, mSATA, etc)

    If memory serves, the GX isn't good. I'm not sure about the GS, do they even have one? The Corsair is probably your best bet.
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