Replacing old PSU, possibly with a newer one. Spec question...

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DaSpain86

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So for the last four or five years I've had a XION Power Real 1000W ATX Power Supply, found here:

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=4494091

...but recently it took a header and has died, I have found a replacement for it but the sight that is offering it is having problems with my credit card ( Still waiting to hear back from them. ). Before anyone asks, tigerdirect doesn't have any in stock right now, mostly so you can see specs and compare to the other one I found.

So after I hit the wall, I decided to search for a new type of PSU which is a XION XON-1000P14F ATX Power Supply, found here :

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/searchtools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=1336020&SRCCODE=WEBGOOPA&cm_mmc_o=mH4CjC7BBTkwCjCV1-CjCE&gclid=CM2srs_FkLcCFceDQgodomMACQ


I have a few nagging concerns I was hoping you all could help me with answering.

On my old PSU, the 12v 4&5 could operate at 35A, but the replacement I am looking at only operates at 30A. I am worried that this may affect how my system operates, I need all the connectors and the watts. Also, the size is important as it's fairly snug in my rig, although from the looks of it this new one may be smaller...

...help?
 
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nukemaster
I had made that some time ago yes, Maybe I will make an updated one to better show the relation.

It was mostly to show how the multi rail power supplies tend to operate and later had the 3.3 + 5 added to show users that IF you draw full power from those, the 12 volt current limits will be lowered as well because they all come from the same place.

EDIT

Better?

For every level or rail, A quality power supply should be ale to ensure too much power is never drawn

multirail.png
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nukemaster

nukemaster

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Well, The new power supply is rated at 900 watts @ 12 volts. This is across all rails, so you can not max out each rails limit either way(they all pull from one main 75amp rail with current limiters to stop you from overdrawing on each virtual rail). In this case the "6 rail" design is nothing but marketing.

Honestly unless you have the most overkill system in the world, that is WAY more power than is needed.

My only question is HOW does a company build a 1000 watt power supply for 99 dollars. I worry about the quality of this unit if it was ever asked to deliver 900 watts @ 12 volts.

If you list your FULL system specs, you may be able to recommend a power supply for you as well.
 
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4745454b

4745454b

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Yeah, I was worried as soon as you said Xion. Not known for the best units.

Do you realize that most/all single GPU systems can run on a quality 380-450W PSU? The system load for a 7950 is around 325W. If you are going 1kW I hope you are OCing a CF/SLI setup. And even then I wouldn't trust that hardware to a Xion $99 PSU.
 
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DaSpain86

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Well I cannot find my notes on that was in the system so most of this will be from memory until I can get my hands on the system itself ( likley sometime Monday ) and get the exact specifications.
That being said;

ASUS MSI mother board,

8 gig of ram,

geforce 8600 2x with 1gig ram each

I believe the cpu was a Anthalon x2 or 4 with 3.2 mhz

500gig hard drives at 7200 rpm 2x

a milti card reader, a lcd fan screen, 2 cd players, RW + if I remember correctly...

A liquid cooling fan for the processor, and two other fans.

I realize this is the kind of description you all are looking for, but I seem to remember when we were putting this all together on ibuypower, that this was the lowest wattage that their builder was going to allow me to attach. As to
 
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nukemaster

nukemaster

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I'd grab a Seasonic or similar 600-750 watt(I would agree with the above, a 500 watt is plenty for most systems) and call it a day. That would run ANY single card system(and some dual card systems as well) with some overclocking(so you are covered for upgrades).

I have never seen over 350watts at the wall in any games with my i7 2600k @ 4.4 and 5870(old but still getting the job done :) ) video card(even when the system had 2 hard drives and 3 ssds).

Always watch for cheap power supplies. I have seen too many "500" watt power supplies that have less power than the 300 watt I have in my media center. Its all about 12 volt current now days.
 
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DaSpain86

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Alright, so I have most of the specs now.

I have 2 nvidia geforce 8600 gts. which do about 43 wats each

an asus mobo MSE-NF9890-G65

and an add anthlon x2 that runs about 65w.

With that in mind, I was considering one of these two PSUs.

SeaSonic M12II 520 Bronze 520W ATX12V v2.3 / EPS 12V v2.91 SLI Ready 80 PLUS BRONZE Certified Modular Active PFC Power Supply

Found here:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817151093

or

Antec EarthWatts Platinum Series EA-550 550W ATX12V / EPS12V SLI Ready CrossFire Ready 80 PLUS PLATINUM Certified Power Supply

Found here:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817371055

My real concern for the sea sonic mostly that it only has 3 12v rails, where as the antec has 4. Also, both of these are ATX12v/ESPS12v, where as my old PSU was just ATX. Will that make that big of a difference?

And while I have you here, I'm also looking for a USP and I have to admit I don't know much about them, so I made an educated guess as to a decent one.

TRIPP LITE ECO ECO850LCD 850 VA 425 Watts 12 Outlets UPS with Enhanced LCD Interface and USB Monitoring Port, RJ11

Found here:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16842111342

Any advise for this one would be appreciated as well.
 
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nukemaster

nukemaster

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About the "rails"

While on power supply has 2 or 3 or 4 rails. The most important part is the combined rating of those rails. Seasonic is one of the few that actually on many units has a combined that matches the total of all the rails(Some Antec Seasonic based units did as well).

For instance, the Antec Earthwatts Platinum has 4 30 amp rails, but this does NOT mean you have 120 amps(lets do the math. 120 x 12 = 1440 watts) to work with. You only have a total of 43 amps to work with.

The rails had been introduced to limit current flowing in one cable as power supplies got more powerful. For instance, You do not want to send 40 amps onto a single 18 gauge cable(just like you do not run an electric stove or dryer on lamp cord) as that would cause a fire hazard. Most units used to limit to 16, 18 or 20 amps for safety.

Back on topic here, far too many companies are running this multi rail thing too far.

I mean 2 x 30 amp rails would have been fine for about 90% of users, but this 4 rail idea may give you a better chance of "balancing" the load. Just remember, at the end of the day, ALL the 12 volt power on most modern power supplies comes from one place(one large rail). Even the 5 and 3.3 volt lines come from the single 12 volt rail by way of DC-DC conversion.

This is a very basic image of how that works
multirail.gif

Other rails like the 5 volt standby are a power supply within a power supply so to speak.

If you want better protection from a UPS you may wish to look at the CyberPower PFC series of UPSes as they are more compatible with today's power supplies(many of the step wave or simulated wave systems can cause issues when on backup for newer power supplies. My old APC XS1200 still work, but makes some hell of a racket from the power supply when on battery.).
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&DEPA=0&Order=BESTMATCH&N=100006684&isNodeId=1&Description=cyberpower+pfc&x=0&y=0
 
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4745454b

4745454b

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Did you draw that nuke? I like it, but I'd put the 5v and 3.3v lower down. Drop the boxes so they are literally under the 12V box. It's hard to see the yellow line feeding those boxes.

This is where "OCP" comes in. (Over Current Protection) It's a circuit that limits each "rail" to 18A or 20A or whatever they choose. It should also limit the total 12V output to whatever the PSU is designed/marketed for.
 
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nukemaster

nukemaster

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Nov 23, 2004
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I had made that some time ago yes, Maybe I will make an updated one to better show the relation.

It was mostly to show how the multi rail power supplies tend to operate and later had the 3.3 + 5 added to show users that IF you draw full power from those, the 12 volt current limits will be lowered as well because they all come from the same place.

EDIT

Better?

For every level or rail, A quality power supply should be ale to ensure too much power is never drawn

multirail.png
 
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Solution
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DaSpain86

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May 12, 2013
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Welp, after some deliberation I am going to spend the extra cash and get the Cyberpower USP, along with the antec PSU.

Our computer is in a smaller room and during the cooler months we can actually heat the room with the computer, which is not so great for gaming during the summer.

Thanks a lot for your help guys, I'll let ya know how it all syncs up.
 
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