Antec Power Supply Unit Research Help Needed.
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jpolk1138
May 12, 2013 2:23:52 PM
I am planning to build a gaming PC/HTPC sometime between late July and mid-August after Intel gets the USB 3.0 bug issue resolved with the Haswell motherboards and CPUs. A PSU calculator program stated that I needed around 700 watts to power the computer that I plan to build. The PC case that I will get is an Antec 1200V3. I also plan to buy additional case fans, a CPU fan, and a PSU manufactured by Antec for easier hardware compatibility. I have no plans to overclock, but I may add other components in the future such as an additional hard drive, or a dual video card setup. Besides gaming, I will also be doing C++ activities as a side project (with no plans to do heavy duty graphics), and using FSX for flight training. I want a PSU, along with the case, that will last for at least two builds, with each build lasting between two and three years.
The three Antec PSUs that I am looking at are:
1. HCG-900
2. HCP-1000 Platinum
3. HCP-1200
I know that there is a $130 price difference between the HCG-900 and HCP-1000 and am leaning toward the former unless the latter or HCP-1200 is guaranteed to last me for four to six years.
The three Antec PSUs that I am looking at are:
1. HCG-900
2. HCP-1000 Platinum
3. HCP-1200
I know that there is a $130 price difference between the HCG-900 and HCP-1000 and am leaning toward the former unless the latter or HCP-1200 is guaranteed to last me for four to six years.
More about : antec power supply unit research needed
jpolk1138
May 12, 2013 5:38:10 PM
jnkweaver said:
A lot of those psu calculators severely overestimate the useage. give a list of the components and we can let your know.Most likely it was a 350W useage so they suggested a 700W supply because the max efficiency is usually in the 50% useage area.
Here is my list. Please note I am going with either an Intel 4770 or 4770K, A CPU fan designed for the 4770, Asus Sabertooth Motherboard or equivalent for the LGA 1150, and a GTX 770. I am assuming the power consumption will not be much different from the current generation of hardware.
Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi Titanium HD (THX TruStudio Pro)
Intel Core i7 3770 3.4GHz LGA 1155 Processor
ASUS SABERTOOTH Z77 LGA 1155 Z77 ATX Intel Motherboard
Antec TriCool 120mm Blue LED Fan [ x 2 or x 3 (I plan to fill all of the vacant cooling fan slots)]
Antec KUHLER Flow Universal CPU Cooler
Crucial Ballistix Sport 16GB DDR3-1600 PC3-12800)
Seagate Barracuda 3TB 7,200 RPM SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5" (x 2)
StarTech 5.25" 3-Fan Drive Bay Hard Drive Cooler (x 2)
Crucial M500 Series 240GB SATA 6.0Gb/s 2.5" Internal SSD
ASUS BC-12B1ST 16x DVDRW Burner/12x BD Reader (Internal Blu Ray Drive)
ASUS DRW-24B1ST Internal DVDR/RW Burner - OEM
EVGA 02G-P4-2678-KR NVIDIA GeForce GTX 670
TP-LINK TL-WDN4800 Wireless N Dual Band PCI Express
Sabrent 4-Port SuperSpeed USB 3.0 PCIe Controller
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Normally a single system with a GTX 670 would need a 500W psu. With the extra fans I wouls say at least 550W. That is still a cry from needing 700W and buying 900-1200.
It is not necessary to buy an Antec psu because of the case. They are all compatible at least all of the standard ATX supplies.
If you insist on staying with Antec I would recommend this first http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
followed by this http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
But in order I would recommend
1. Seasonic 620 Bronze http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
2. Seasonic 650W Gold http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
Then the two Antecs.
Get the 650W gold if you can afford the extra price.
It is not necessary to buy an Antec psu because of the case. They are all compatible at least all of the standard ATX supplies.
If you insist on staying with Antec I would recommend this first http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
followed by this http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
But in order I would recommend
1. Seasonic 620 Bronze http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
2. Seasonic 650W Gold http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
Then the two Antecs.
Get the 650W gold if you can afford the extra price.
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jpolk1138
May 13, 2013 9:17:25 AM
jnkweaver said:
Normally a single system with a GTX 670 would need a 500W psu. With the extra fans I wouls say at least 550W. That is still a cry from needing 700W and buying 900-1200.It is not necessary to buy an Antec psu because of the case. They are all compatible at least all of the standard ATX supplies.
If you insist on staying with Antec I would recommend this first http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
followed by this http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
But in order I would recommend
1. Seasonic 620 Bronze http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
2. Seasonic 650W Gold http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
Then the two Antecs.
Get the 650W gold if you can afford the extra price.
Thanks for the suggestions. I have another question. Basically I plan to load Windows 7 and the software for the hardware components to the SSD, my music on one HDD, and games on the other HDD. Depending on how things go with C++, I may purchase an additional HDD that is identical or similar to the Seagate HDDs that I listed later on. Would any these power supply units still run efficiently if I add another HDD or should I look for a PSU with a higher wattage?
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Yes. Your additional HDD won't use up much power. Hardly at all.
As for PSU, I recommend the XFX Core Edition 650W
As for PSU, I recommend the XFX Core Edition 650W
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jpolk1138
May 13, 2013 3:09:53 PM
My other questions are, how often are the power plugs on the PC components, such as the motherboard, GPU, and HDDs changed and what indications or information should I look for that tell me whether or not the PSU is designed to last? Also, my PC build is going to be somewhere in the $2000 range. What are the advantages of 80 Plus Gold besides more efficiency and less heat? I want a PSU that can last me for two builds and a total life span between 4 and 6 years, if that is possible.
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You generally don't change them unless either the part itself dies or the PSU dies or the PSU cables is faulty.
The efficiency rating does tell you that the parts used to build the PSU isn't complete crap. You gain no real advantages to buying a 80 Plus Gold over a 80 plus bronze. The efficiency rating is so minimal that if you had two computers on 24/7 for a whole year, the gold one will save you a whopping $3.00-$5.00 total. (That's three dollars to five dollars, not three hundred to five hundred.) The difference in pricing between an 80 bronze PSU and an 80 gold PSU is at least (average) $50.00. So by savings, you will have to run the gold PSU for at least 10-17 years to just pay off the difference.
Most quality PSU can last a good amount of time. I have one for years now.
The efficiency rating does tell you that the parts used to build the PSU isn't complete crap. You gain no real advantages to buying a 80 Plus Gold over a 80 plus bronze. The efficiency rating is so minimal that if you had two computers on 24/7 for a whole year, the gold one will save you a whopping $3.00-$5.00 total. (That's three dollars to five dollars, not three hundred to five hundred.) The difference in pricing between an 80 bronze PSU and an 80 gold PSU is at least (average) $50.00. So by savings, you will have to run the gold PSU for at least 10-17 years to just pay off the difference.
Most quality PSU can last a good amount of time. I have one for years now.
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ksham said:
The efficiency rating does tell you that the parts used to build the PSU isn't complete crap.
doesn't tell its great either
good non 80% PSU
http://www.newegg.com/product/product.aspx?item=N82E168...
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
80+ PSU that makes an excellent paper wight
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
a couple of bronze editions I would not touch either
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
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ksham said:
You gain no real advantages to buying a 80 Plus Gold over a 80 plus bronze. The efficiency rating is so minimal that if you had two computers on 24/7 for a whole year, the gold one will save you a whopping $3.00-$5.00 total. (That's three dollars to five dollars, not three hundred to five hundred.) The difference in pricing between an 80 bronze PSU and an 80 gold PSU is at least (average) $50.00. So by savings, you will have to run the gold PSU for at least 10-17 years to just pay off the difference..I don't agree. Not sure what you base that on.
Here I have two XFX 750W supplies. Both are modular. One is Bronze and the other is Gold and they cost the same> You just have to look at the prices and find a decent buy.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
As far as the efficiency payoff goes lets use a 400W system draw at 10cents a Kilowatt at 50% draw. The Bronze is 85% efficient at 50% draw so 400/.85=471W off the socket
The Gold is 90% efficient at 50% so 400/.9= 444W off the socket.
The difference is 27 watts.
.10 per kilowatt = .1/1000 =.0001 watt/hr.
27watt difference x .0001 watt/hr = .0027 dollars or less than 1/4 cent per hr.
.0027 x 24 hrs = .065 dollars a day
365days x .065 = 23.65 dollars a year
So even if it was a difference of $50 it would only take 2 years to break even. Now maybe you are in an area that pays alot less per kw then 10 cents the calculations are the same. If you pay 5 cents then it takes 4 years to make up $50.
The more reasonable calculation is computer on for 8-10 hrs and then it does take more time to recoup.
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True. You can always try to find the best value. Though, I still say that most Gold PSU are much more than their Bronze counterpart. Even skimming the list on PCPartPicker, it's noticeable.
I see where I made the mistake. It was $3-$5 a month, not year. Oops. So $36-$60 a year saved. That is with the world average (min-max) in terms of power consumption. I didn't get the min-max for the PSU average globally. That was hard to find. So it'll take about 1.5 years to pay it off. Still a long time and the save is still negligible.
I see where I made the mistake. It was $3-$5 a month, not year. Oops. So $36-$60 a year saved. That is with the world average (min-max) in terms of power consumption. I didn't get the min-max for the PSU average globally. That was hard to find. So it'll take about 1.5 years to pay it off. Still a long time and the save is still negligible.
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jnkweaver said:
I don't agree. Not sure what you base that on.
Here I have two XFX 750W supplies. Both are modular. One is Bronze and the other is Gold and they cost the same> You just have to look at the prices and find a decent buy.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
As far as the efficiency payoff goes lets use a 400W system draw at 10cents a Kilowatt at 50% draw. The Bronze is 85% efficient at 50% draw so 400/.85=471W off the socket
The Gold is 90% efficient at 50% so 400/.9= 444W off the socket.
The difference is 27 watts.
.10 per kilowatt = .1/1000 =.0001 watt/hr.
27watt difference x .0001 watt/hr = .0027 dollars or less than 1/4 cent per hr.
.0027 x 24 hrs = .065 dollars a day
365days x .065 = 23.65 dollars a year
So even if it was a difference of $50 it would only take 2 years to break even. Now maybe you are in an area that pays alot less per kw then 10 cents the calculations are the same. If you pay 5 cents then it takes 4 years to make up $50.
The more reasonable calculation is computer on for 8-10 hrs and then it does take more time to recoup.
sorry but that scenario is flawed. While I won't go so far as say you don't gain an advantage from having a gold PSU compared to a bronze, I will defend Ksham's notion.
80plus tests are done at 25c, while the internal case temps of a PC can range from 25c to 50c (during gaming) and many PSU become less efficient at high heat.
Your calculation presumes a high end PC with power draining hardware (GTX 480 & FX8350) on all day (24 hours) every day (365 days) at full load (450-480w). (That's great if you are in that scenario, getting a gold PSU makes sound advice).
Now let's look at a more every day scenario. Do you use your computer every single day of the year? Most people don't, you go on vacation, long day at work, go out to the game, out to dinner (have a life). A more typical person "gamer" probably uses their computer around 330-345 days. The average gamer draws at load around 300-325w for maybe 20-40 hours a week. The rest of the time that PC is is under 200w (work, surfing the web, etc.,) or under 100w (in sleep mode) or off. So let's use that same calculation assuming the PC is on for ten hours a day (a lot of time) half of the time is spent gaming (that's 35 hours a week, basically a full time job) and the other half it's well under load (150w). So during a 10 hour day the computer averages 200w at 330w days per year at ten cents per year. Your saving start to shrink severely.
Your recoup time now increases severely, outside the warranty period of most quality PSU (5 years) or around the time you start thinking of getting a new PSU.
To quote Oklahoma Wolf (he does most of the PSU reviews for jonnyguru)
...
And it is also very much true that you cannot gauge quality by the 80 Plus rating. That's why efficiency is such a small part of my scoring in my reviews... while it is important to a degree, I simply consider it to be the least important aspect of overall performance. I'd rather have a rock solid 80 Plus Bronze than a Platinum unit that regulates voltages like doing cannonballs on a waterbed.
While I don't doubt your math jnkweaver, i simply ask which is the more likely scenario
someone with a high end hardware system at load 24/7 at 365 days a week
or someone with a mid tier system playing 35 hours a week that is on 10 hours a day, 28 days a month, for ten hours a day?
For the first scenario, a gold quality PSU makes all the sense in the world (assuming budget)
In the second scenario, things become a bit more complicated
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I was refuting a specific statement that said " The efficiency rating is so minimal that if you had two computers on 24/7 for a whole year, the gold one will save you a whopping $3.00-$5.00 total. " I also said "The more reasonable calculation is computer on for 8-10 hrs and then it does take more time to recoup." The only ones I can see that would be on 24/7 are the bit coin miners out there.
I didn't even get into the fact that the lower efficiency psu's add more heat to the system requiring more airflow which requires more power to be drawn which adds more heat etc (assuming your psu draws from outside and vents into the case).
I would ask how many platinum supplies does he review that do cannonballs on the warerbed?
I don't recommend supplies just because they are Gold but when I see a top end system that will draw 400-500 watts and he is spending 1500 or more it is easy to tell them to get a gold supply.
I didn't even get into the fact that the lower efficiency psu's add more heat to the system requiring more airflow which requires more power to be drawn which adds more heat etc (assuming your psu draws from outside and vents into the case).
I would ask how many platinum supplies does he review that do cannonballs on the warerbed?
I don't recommend supplies just because they are Gold but when I see a top end system that will draw 400-500 watts and he is spending 1500 or more it is easy to tell them to get a gold supply.
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jnkweaver said:
I didn't even get into the fact that the lower efficiency psu's add more heat to the system requiring more airflow which requires more power to be drawn which adds more heat etc (assuming your psu draws from outside and vents into the case).
I would ask how many platinum supplies does he review that do cannonballs on the warerbed?
I don't recommend supplies just because they are Gold but when I see a top end system that will draw 400-500 watts and he is spending 1500 or more it is easy to tell them to get a gold supply.
I'll try to show all the flaws in your theories by actual facts and hopefully educate you so you don't embarrass yourself further.
I didn't even get into the fact that the lower efficiency psu's add more heat to the system
it can be true and often is but it is not a fact. I'll take the last two 1000w PSU reviewed by the top PSU review site on the web.
during test 2 at 40% load, the super flower 90.8% eff and has a 7c difference in intake/exhaust temp
http://www.jonnyguru.com/modules.php?name=NDReviews&op=...
during test 2 at 40% load, the fractil design hits 91.4 eff (higher) but has 13c difference in intake/exhaust temp
http://www.jonnyguru.com/modules.php?name=NDReviews&op=...
once again, components are a factor.
I would ask how many platinum supplies does he review that do cannonballs on the warerbed?
considering he is the top reviewer on the top PSU review site on the web, I would ask you how many platinum PSU have you reviewed with actual test equipment?
I don't recommend supplies just because they are Gold but when I see a top end system that will draw 400-500 watts and he is spending 1500 or more it is easy to tell them to get a gold supply.
a flawed theory since you know neither if they need such efficiency and if they would like to save some money if at all possible.
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