What part of my pc is lacking? I lag in sc2

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Sirrom23

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May 13, 2013
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My main question is what part of my pc is lacking? The only game I play is starcraft 2 and I have to put every graphic setting on low in order for it to run smoothly, but the later in the game the game gets the slower it is because of more units etc. This computer was built for me nearly 3 years ago and nothing has gone wrong with it, but I think I may need to upgrade something in order for the game to play smoother. I posted this on the team-liquid forums (an sc2 site) and a few people suggested that it is my CPU and I upgrade to an ivy bridge i5 and it will double my framerate and everything else is fine. I just wanted to get more advice from people who know more about hardware and I did some research and this is probably the best place for that.

Motherboard - GIGABYTE GA-880GMA-UD2H AM3 AMD 880G HDMI SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 Micro ATX AMD Motherboard

Processor - AMD Phenom II X4 955 Black Edition Deneb 3.2GHz 4 x 512KB L2 Cache 6MB L3 Cache Socket AM3 125W Quad-Core Processor HDZ955FBGMBOX

Harddrive - Seagate Barracuda 7200.12 ST31000528AS 1TB 7200 RPM 32MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive -Bare Drive

Memory - G.SKILL Ripjaws Series 8GB (4 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Desktop Memory Model F3-12800CL9D-4GBRL

Power Supply - CORSAIR CMPSU-650TX 650W ATX12V / EPS12V SLI Ready CrossFire Ready 80 PLUS Certified Active PFC Compatible with Core i7 Power Supply

Video Card - EVGA 768-P3-1360-TR GeForce GTX 460 (Fermi) 768MB 192-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Support Video Card

This is the Sc2 minimum system requirements from battle.net

Windows

Minimum Requirements

Recommended Specifications

Operating System
Windows® XP/Windows Vista®/Windows® 7/Windows® 8 (Updated with the latest Service Packs) with DirectX® 9.0c
Windows® 7/Windows® 8 (latest service pack)

Processor
Intel® Pentium® D or AMD Athlon™ 64 X2
Intel® Core™ 2 Duo E6600 or AMD Athlon™ 64 X2 5000+ or better

Video
NVIDIA® GeForce® 7600 GT or ATI™ Radeon™ X800 XT or better
NVIDIA® GeForce® 8800 GT (512 MB) or ATI™ Radeon™ HD 4850 or better

Memory
1.5 GB RAM
2 GB RAM

Storage
20 GB available HD space

Internet
Broadband Internet connection

Media
DVD-ROM drive

Resolution
1024X768 minimum display resolution


Approximate Purchase Date: any time this summer, now-July

Budget Range: 200-300$

System Usage from Most to Least Important: gaming mostly

Are you buying a monitor: No

Parts to Upgrade: Not sure, I've been told that my CPU is the problem. So probably CPU/motherboard

Do you need to buy OS: No

Preferred Website(s) for Parts: I usually purchase from new-egg but no preference

Location: City, State/Region, Country - Indianapolis, IN, USA

Parts Preferences: Don't have a preference, I've only heard that Intel performs better for games vs AMD

Overclocking: Maybe (I don't know how to do it)

SLI or Crossfire: No

Your Monitor Resolution: 1280x1024

Additional Comments: The only game I play is sc2. It lags a lot and have to have every graphics setting on low.

And Most Importantly, Why Are You Upgrading: sc2 lags a lot and I get poor framerate. People on the team-liquid forums suggested that I upgrade my CPU to an ivy bridge i5 and that will likely double my framerate. They stated that everything else is decently OK but my CPU is my biggest problem. Wanted advice from people who know more about this kind of stuff.
 
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Kindredsouls

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I'm leaning towards the CPU being the culprit of your lag issue too. Star Craft is a very "busy" game and can defiantly be CPU demanding. The main thing that jumps out at me and says CPU rather then GPU is the screen resolution you're running the game at. Its defiantly on the low side (1280 x 1024). So I would highly doubt your GPU is causing the problem.

Not sure what your budget is, but an Intel Core i5 would be optimal for gaming if you can afford it. There are some other budget options, and if you're interested in over clocking; AMD isn't a bad choice either.

I hope that helps.
 
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wanderer11

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Jun 11, 2012
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The best way to answer this is to watch your cpu and gpu usage while gaming. Have gpuz/afterburner/etc. running to see the gpu usage and have task manager running on the performance tab to see cpu usage. Put those on a second monitor and when your fps is low see what your cpu and gpu are doing. Whichever one is at 100% is the one holding you back the most. At that resolution it will most likely be the cpu, but doing what I said will let you see for yourself.
 
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crisan_tiberiu

crisan_tiberiu

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something is wrong with your hardware. My friend runs SC 2 on medium/high with a Intel Core2Duo e6750 @ 2,66GHz and a GeForce 9800GT 512MB. You should be able to play the game on high/ultra not on LOW, definatly something is wrong. Some drivers are missing or are not up to date. Have you ever reinstalled Windows in 3 years? do you have automatic updating on? have you got the lates nvidia drivers for the GTX 460? As a former GTX 460 owner (1GB, not 768MB) i can say that this videocard is overkill for SC2, even your 3,2 Ghz Phenom is overkill.
My suggestion is: reinstall Windows, get the latest MB drivers, latest graphic drivers and give it another try
 
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MC_K7

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The problem most probably lies somewhere else than your hardware. Since you're only playing with a resolution of 1280 x 1024 with low settings, you shouldn't get any lag at all. In fact, with your current hardware, I believe you should be able to play this game at 1920 x 1080 with ultra settings and it should work fine. I remember playing SC2 with a 9600GT 512MB with a resolution of 1680 x 1050 + ultra settings and the game would rarely lag, only in very large maps with a lot of enemies and action. So I would simply reduce the settings to "high" and it would play fine all the time. I upgraded to a 460 1GB and my new monitor is 1920 x 1200 and I can play the game with ultra settings all the time.

So as you can see SC2 is not that demanding and you largely exceed minimum requirement. The fact you're getting lag with such low settings is not normal, something is going on. So I would wait before wasting money on a CPU or GPU.

I have a feeling it might be a software problem. Are you using latest drivers? Do you have a lot of software running in the background? How is your system health in general? Might be worth reformatting and reinstalling Windows to see if it makes a difference. But you should definitely be getting playable framerates with your current hardware. At only 1280 x 1024 you should be able to use ultra settings.

*** Edit: Forgot to mention that when I had my 9600GT I was also using a Phenom-II X4 and SC2 was running fine on 1680 x 1050. I know that SC2 can be CPU demanding, but don't exaggerate guys, at 1280 x 1024 on low settings, he shouldn't get any lag with a Phenom-II X4. Something else is going on with his system, so as I said I would wait before advising him to spend money on any hardware.
 
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crisan_tiberiu

crisan_tiberiu

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dude, he is lagging on 1280x1024 on LOW settings, wth, he has a Phenom 2 Black Edition and a GTX 460... there is no bottleneck in specs, only faulty hardware/drivers
 
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MC_K7

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^ +1

 
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everyone6

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Your system is more than adequate to play the game, and should be able to do so at high settings with no problems. There is only one hardware related thing I can think of: something is wrong with your cooling and is causing the CPU or GPU to overheat and throttle excessively. Given that it is happening at low settings and resolution, I'd say there's a 95% chance that the problem is your CPU, not your GPU. In a three year old system its pretty common for cheap thermal paste to wear out.

I suggest keeping a temperature monitor running while playing (Speedfan works well) to see if that is a problem. You can even look at the temps while idling at desktop too. I recently had exactly this problem. My otherwise great three-year-old system all of a sudden just could not deal with Arma 3. My system was performing much worse than my friend's system, and mine has much better specs. I opened up speedfan and saw that at idle, my CPU temp was ~80C. A new coat of thermal paste and an upgraded ($30) HSF later, and its back to doing just fine.

If that's not it, then its something software related, as posters above me have stated. Check your drivers, your windows install, defrag your HD, all that jazz.
 
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Sirrom23

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May 13, 2013
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Ok I tried to take everyone's advice and see what's up. No, I haven't reformatted this pc once, I will do that in 3 weeks when I move home from school. I also updated the latest driver for my graphics card, and there are no windows updates that I don't have. I also believe I have the latest version of directx, not 100% sure but I think I do. Here are pics of idle on desktop and during a sc2 game where I get like 1fps when lots of action is going on (I had to quickly minimize and take a screenshot, don't have a 2nd monitor, I also have an oldschool monitor too, square 17").

This is idle on desktop: Idle on desktop

This is during game when I alt tabbed to get pic: During game
 
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Sirrom23

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I forgot to mention, that I thought I used to be able a few years ago when the game first came out to play on higher settings, but lately, like the last 6 months or so, it's been a real issue. Also, on the speedfan program everyone6 suggested I run it says all my fans except for 1 is not running, does that mean a lot of those fans aren't working anymore? I guess when I move home I can take the side off and check to see if any fan isn't running, was just curious. Thanks for feedback and I'll try anything else you guys suggest to figure out this problem.
 
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crisan_tiberiu

crisan_tiberiu

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There you go, the problem is @ your video card. 400Mhz core clock and 162 Mhz memory(when it normally should be 675Mhz core / 900Mhz memory unde load. Temps look fine both on your CPU and GPU. If reinstalling the drivers does not work...then you might have a faulty card... You said that you got the latest drivers from Nvidia... last resort: full reinstall windows etc

There is the posibility that your PSU does not provide enaugh power to the extra 6 pin PCI-e..... but usualy you would get a pop-up window for that problem, try switching the cables :)
 
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everyone6

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Judging by your screenshots, I still think the problem is with your CPU overheating, like I said above. If you had been idling for a while on your desktop when the first picture was taken, then 78C is quite high for your CPU (shouldn't be more than 40C idle). It might be worth playing the game on windowed mode and keeping the speedfan monitor running where you can see it, because even the few seconds it takes to alt-tab can cause the temps to drop quickly when the CPU/GPU suddenly stop having to work so hard.

As for the GPU speeds being low in the second picture, that could be the problem but I doubt it. Newer GPUs feature pretty aggressive throttling and rapidly downclock themselves when they aren't working hard. I know that my radeon 5870 will immediately lower its clock speeds when I alt tab, which is what I suspect is causing your clock speeds to look low in the second screenshot.

Keep an eye on the speedfan for the next couple of days, both when idling, and when gaming. If it regularly stays in the high 70s like that (especially when idling), then its definitely your CPU throttling that is killing performance. If you're happy with your CPU cooler, then just get a tube of decent thermal paste ($3-5 on amazon or newegg) and apply a new layer (after scraping the old stuff off carefully... use google to find a good guide on the process, there are many). If you're using a stock heatsink/fan, it might be worth investing $30 or so in a decent low-mid range cooler. Again, google will find you good reviews to go by. I bought a new heatsink/fan, and installed it with a fresh coat of thermal paste, and my throttling issues immediately disappeared. My idle temps went from ~80C, down to ~32C immediately. My Arma 3 framerate went from 10-15 on low settings, to 50+ on mid/high settings.

While you're in there, airspray/vacuum out the dustbunnies and make sure you have good airflow. Three years allows for the buildup of a hell of a lot of dust nastiness.

As for the fans being listed at 0rpm, speedfan is probably reporting empty leads where no fan is installed. If you have multiple fans in your computer though then yeah you might want to check to make sure they're all spinning while its on. That could be an even easier solution than the thermal paste. ;) If you're really into figuring out whats what, then use speedfan and everest at the same time. Takes some detective work, but you can usually figure out what number in speedfan represents what fan in everest. I think this is more trouble than its worth though.
 
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crisan_tiberiu

crisan_tiberiu

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Indeed, the CPU temp is way off. About the "speed step" of your GPU i can say that my GTX 460 did not throttle down as fast as my 7850 when alt tab... and the 127MHz memory is the last state from 4 witch the GTX has, so, normaly it wont throtle down as fast and sure not to the last state (its a liniar downclock between states). Indeed my hd7850 is switching from 1GHz to 300Mhz instantly as i ALT+TAB
 
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