it should work...why not?!?!

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alith7

alith7

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May 14, 2013
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so, I have a baffling wiring/who knows problem.
upgrading the network hardware through the company, and I'm replacing a number of 10/100 switches for gigbit switches. everything is working fine except for one switch/wiring point.
Working chain of connections:
Router->Main Switch->LONG Cat5e cable to connect (approx 200ft)->Office Patch Panel->10/100 switch->gigbit switch
With that, everything works fine.
If I swap the cable to go Office Patch Panel->gigbit switch->10/100 switch the switches talk to each other just fine, but there is NO signal from the patch panel.
I'm baffled. I have tried different cables, different ports on the gigabit switch, everything. When plugged into the 10/100 switch, there is no signal loss, or connection problems. when plugged into the gigbit switch, there is nothing. it's not even trying to connect. I'm really hoping someone has an idea…

I'll answer a couple questions that I know will come up. the Gigabit switch is a 16-port Netgear GS116 New. The 10/100 is a 24-port Dlink something, about 5-years old. Router is a Netgear FVS336G New. The main switch is a Netgear JGS524 about a year old.

We are keeping the 24-port as a pool for some printers within that office that don't need a high-speed connection, and are not accessed by the rest of the company.
we are moving in 6-8 months, so I really do NOT want to rerun the spanning cable as it requires going through a couple fire walls and crawl spaces. Unfortunately, I DO need to upgrade now for some internal software and logistics changes that are being implemented now, other wise I would just say screw it and live with it until we move.

Thank you for any ideas you might have!
 
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nukemaster

nukemaster

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The first thing that comes to mind would be if BOTH devices have a power savings feature that shuts down un-used ports.

I have seen this in some small home networks with "green" switches and a similar feature on the computer it self. Lucky enough, the computer end was just a bios option(then all was good).

Does the switch have management abilities? If so, try to see if you can turn off any power savings.
 
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alith7

alith7

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wow...that was fast! looks like I picked the right forum to get help.

nukemaster~
I know the Dlink and the GS116 are unmanaged.
the main switch (JGS524) is unmanaged, but it does have the "green" settings.
I'm not sure how I would check if that is the cause...

corroded~
I have not tested the line, I have a tester I can borrow from a friend that will at least test 1-8 for a connection, but I don't know if I can get my hands on a fancier tester. I'm self-taught on the networking, and so learn new things all the time...Like gigbit connections use all 4 pairs...:??: This is really my first branching into all this. until this upgrade I was using all consumer routers and hardware not realizing that it was killing my network. (we have approx 50-55 devices at any given time)
The origin is terminated in an RJ45 plug, but the final end is hard wired into the patch panel. I will get one of my flunkies to give me a hand tomorrow and run a line test.

Thank you both for your quick and helpful responses!
 
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alith7

alith7

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thanks for the tuts. but that part i'm good on. ;)
all my cabling has been 568B since day one...about 10 years ago.
the problem with this cable is that it is an outdoor insulated cable, and it doesn't like having an RJ45 plug on it. I may rig something with it terminated into a jack and then use a patch cable into the main switch instead of a direct termination. I'll let you know how it goes. I haven't been able to get in to test it yet as half the offices will loose their connection while I'm working on it, so I ahve to wait for the weekend.
 
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B

bill001g

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I would try the simple tester first. You can't fix over the cable length limit so it does not pay to check for it. It is likely a single wire not punched down correctly or loose. If it test clean but still does not work then you have a dilemma. You can pay to test the cable and find out its bad and have to replace the cable or it will test clean and then you are stuck trying to figure out why the switches refuse to negotiate correctly.
I would say if it tests clean the cheapest test is to take both switches put them in the same room and hook them back to back and be sure they come up. You could I guess use a very long cable in the same room to make sure it will go the distance but I would at that point just replace the long cable.
 
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dbhosttexas

dbhosttexas

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I am curious, what exactly is the equipment you are dealing with? I mean like MFG, Model, capacity etc? How are the cables terminated? Do multiple switches in line with each other have "Green mode" settings? I might be wrong, but I suspect that the main switch is still fast ethernet, and that cable is probably split so that only 2 pairs are wired up to carry data, the other 2 probably used for phone...

Take the gigabit switch, and a known good shorter patch cable into the same location with the main switch, and hang the gigabit switch off of one of the ports, it should uplink and work fine. If it does the problem is in your long cable for sure. Just get some new Cat5e or cat 6, and some twine long enough to match the cable plus about 10 feet or so, tie it off securely to the original cable, and back pull the new cable and twine, When you get to the other end, untie the new cable and re-secure the original to the twine and back over to where it was, then re-terminate the phone pairs, and of course terminate the new cable to the patch panel / keystone using the same termination standard on both ends. (If you don't know what I mean, search RJ-45 wiring standard).

"Router->Main Switch->LONG Cat5e cable to connect (approx 200ft)->Office Patch Panel->10/100 switch->gigbit switch"
 
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alith7

alith7

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First post lists the hardware (brand/model), and all my wiring is done to the 568B standard.
The cable connecting the shops is network only, dedicated to one network plug on each end. I may be a girl, but I know better than that. ;) the phone was run on separate cables as the phone system requires that each phone have it's own dedicated pair to the central phone system. All the cables are outdoor insulated Cat5e. the cable end at the main switch is terminated in an RJ45 plug that plugs directly into the switch, at the receiving end, it terminates into a patch panel that is then connect to the switch with a patch cable.
If it was as easy as "refishing" the cable, trust me, I would do that. However, the cable goes through three firewalls that had to be prepped, drilled and sealed after the cables were run. to re-run a cable requires a couple hours+ of crawling around in a 3ft high crawl space with no real ventilation that runs in the overhang between the buildings that is either freezing cold, or a hot box depending on the time of year.
Does that answer your questions as to why i'm looking for help here? when there are obvious "fixes"?
 
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dbhosttexas

dbhosttexas

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Please forgive my bad eyes, I honestly didn't initially even see the paragraph where you defined the equipment...

Honestly no judgement here on age, gender, height whatever. Yes I am a guy, my lovely bride is also in IT as well... I am not one of those that think women can't be techs... I know better, I just don't know where you are coming from. I have a better idea now. Thanks... I am sorry if I gave you that impression though. I didn't mean to.

Those Netgear switches are usually real winners. I have used Netgear switches all over the place over the last 15 years. I literally just two weeks ago gave away an 8 port 10/100 Netgear switch that still worked like new.. I do recall some models of Netgear switches, although they did have auto uplink, it had to be on specific ports, either port 1, or the last port. I kind of doubt that these switches being MUCH newer than those ones I am thinking of, are guilty of that, but it wouldn't hurt to try maybe hooking up to a differnt port? (I am honestly fishing here...).

I know this is a lousy analogy but work with me here...

On one upgrade, I upgraded from fast ethernet to gigabit, and I had one port that had been working for years, worked fine with the gigabit switch on the far end connected, and a fast ethernet client connected, but it would not even show a link light on a second gigabit switch, or a gigabit controller.

I double checked the cable, and the test pass looked good on the first pass. 1-1, 2-2, 3-3, 4-4, 5-5, 6-6, 7-7, 8-8 and then back to 1-1 etc...

After a few passes I let the tester hang on the cable and all of the sudden it would show I think the 3.3 and 5-5 either miswired, or just plain wouldn't light up. I pulled the keystones (I was using a keystone patch panel on this install) and looked to see that I had wires that had come out of the punch down slots, so I went ahead and re-terminated both ends of the cable, and retested succesfully. I was then able to connect the gigabit client to the cable and have not had any issues with that connection since then. It's a shot in the dark, but you might try double checking your keystones or plugs on that long cable to verify that the connections are fully seated and making good contact.
 
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alith7

alith7

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May 14, 2013
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You're fine, I just had to give you some crap... ;)
I've worked in the print industry since I was 18. I am WELL used to the assumptions and things, not saying you were, but...you know. ;) No harm, no foul.
I have to pull the patch panel and check the back yet, but I DO know that I have had problems with terminating this cable before, so...on sunday, when there is no one here, I'll take the harware down and run some tests.
 
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alith7

alith7

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May 14, 2013
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ok...so chalking this one up to the ghosts in the wiring.
Ran the line tests and watched it count happily 1 through 8 for about 10 minutes. I plugged in the patch cable into the new gigabit router, and went back to the base station, unplugged the tester, and plugged the long cable back into the original main switch...and had a perfect signal. I had already done this...multiple times. It had done nothing.
thank you for all your help guys!
 
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Beachnative

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I see this is marked as having a best answer, not sure if its a fix but I hope so.



Someone said to check the wires, however since the Netgear GS116 is 10/100/1000, it should still pass data at a slower rate despite not using all of the wires.

My dad always said check the simple stuff first and it was my mantra when I serviced waaaaaay too many offices.
This was my tool of choice

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Fluke-Networks-MicroScanner-Pro-Cable-Tester-/171043798276?pt=US_Cable_Testers&hash=item27d3013d04

This does one to one mapping. dbhosttexas has referenced it and I'd bet the farm that he or she knows the value of that specific feature alone.

Home Depot sells this for less than $100:

http://www.homedepot.com/p/t/202520422?productId=202520422&storeId=10051&langId=-1&catalogId=10053&ci_src=14110944&ci_sku=202520422&cm_mmc=shopping%2d%5f%2dgooglebase%2d%5f%2dD27X%2d%5f%2d202520422

Buy this, plug in the remote tester at one end then jiggle the wire at one end and see if anything changes....
 
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