Audio setup help

Dontcopy · May 16, 2013

Hey guys,
I recently aquired an amp ( Denon PMA-680R) and two JBL speakers ( http://www.jbl.com/estore/jbl/us/products/Control-One/CONTROL%20ONE_JBL_US )
I'm looking to build up a nice (ish) sound system by adding additional parts. At the moment I'm using the onboard sound on my PC and just running a 3.5mm to the amp.
So any suggestions on what speakers I should add or even a sound card? I have a budget of about 600NZD or 500USD (slightly flexible)
If it makes any difference at all. these will be used exclusively for music and only have to fill a small room. But I love volume haha
Any suggestions would be nice

Thanks, Alex.

bgunner · May 16, 2013

A sound card will be the best and a cheap (ish) upgrade for sound quality. I personally like the creative sound cards but Asus makes good ones also. I run an older Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi Xtreme Gamer PCI sound card and will never go back to onboard sound again. The difference is night and day for sound quality. From there you need a good sounding set of speakers.

I can't really help with speakers so I will let some one else do that.

thee_prisoner · May 16, 2013

Those speakers are pretty small even for a small room if you like volume. They would be for background music or close up for a computer speaker type application.

How small of a room. like 10x12? For $500, you can get some pretty decent speakers. I'm not sure what is available in New Zealand.
If you have a used/new stereo store around you that would be my first stop. That way you can listen before you buy.

With that amp you are limited to stereo sound so don't expect 5.1 or any kind of surround sound. Although you can still use it to power speakers if you decide to get into surround.

An option, since you already have the JBLs(but don't have a sub out on that amp) is to get a sub that is powered and handles the crossover so only mid and highs go to your JBLs so they aren't straining to produce any bass. Here is a link with what I'm talking about:http://howto.cnet.com/8301-11310_39-9936409-285/how-to-set-up-a-subwoofer/

Also a link to that particular sub with a better picture.http://www.hsuresearch.com/products/stf-1.htmlCheck out the PDF owners manual link to that page for a good description on how to use a sub with a stereo integrated amp. And look at the stf-2, more volume for a little more money.

What is happening is that, you are hooking up the speaker wires to the sub, the sub filters the sound with a crossover(set the crossover at 100Hz or so for speakers that size) then passes along the higher frequencies to the smaller speakers.

HSU and SVS make great value and higher end subs. The only option for a bigger sound is get better/bigger speakers. I like Paradigm and NHT make good value/good quality speakers.

Another link for some fun stuff for speakers(not sure if they ship to NZ). http://www.parts-express.com/cat/home-speakers/42

Happy listening, the Prisoner...

Dontcopy · May 16, 2013

hey thanks for those replies,

@bgunner. I'll have a look at a sound card in a bit. There seems to be some pretty decent cheapish ones around like the Xonar DS.

@ Thee prisoner
I've had a look online and found a second hand KLIPSCH Subwoofer 10 for around $350 bucks. I think that would work as I believe it has a crossover. thoughts on that sub? I can't seem to find the STF-1 or 2 in NZ. The room is about 8x16 roughly. I'm not really after surround sound, its not really something that appealed to me. Besides I have a surround headset.

I'll have a look around and see if I can find some more powerful speakers. But in saying that, I have a pair of Microlab 7C's lying around.. But I don't think they will work with this amp.

Thanks heaps, that was really helpful

thee_prisoner · May 16, 2013

I guess it depends on the mobo you have but if the sound you are getting now is good then a cheap sound card most likely wouldn't be an improvement. An expensive one would give you better sound quality. It just depends if you want to spend the money.

I looked at the Klipsch 10 Synergy 10s and they would work with the setup I described. 350USD or even NZDs would be over priced for the speakers used, $230USD at amazon for new.

The MircoLab 7Cs I looked up looked to be pretty decent speakers (more home stereo instead of pc speakers) and will work with your amp or just directly from your pc. That makes things alot easier. Just skip the amp, extra speakers and sub and hook it up to your pc. The integrated amp at this point would be just a pass through to the Mircos so just hook it up to pc. We could have saved a lot of typing if I knew you had those Mircos!

Well, I guess you probably still want to use the items you acquired (did you get them for free?), there are some options. Can you give us the specific name and model of your motherboard? Then you are talking about more multi speaker options.

Happy listening, the Prisoner...

Dontcopy · May 16, 2013

I have an MSi P55-GD65 board.. I was looking at a Xonar Essence in the past. But wasn't sure if it was worth it.

Hmm well that is pretty much the only one I could find, it was 350NZD + shipping which was quite a lot. But then again, audio equipment in NZ is pretty expensive.

Yeah sorry I forgot to mention the Micros earlier, I've been trying to sell them haha but I guess I should keep them.
Yes I got the amp and JBL speakers for free haha. I had the Micros running in the past, they were nice. But I kinda want more, if you know what I mean. They would become really muddy sounding at higher volumes which I'm guessing is more of a sound card problem than anything else. So yeah, I'm thinking multi speakers here..

Thanks again

thee_prisoner · May 16, 2013

Your problem is not the soundcard, the problem is that you want high volume with small speakers. The sound gets "muddy" when you overdrive the speakers and/or the amp. With that mobo you can use a combination of speakers so that's good. Basically setting up the Mirco as front mains, the Denon amp and JBLs as your rear. Then using the on board sound software using speaker fill and adjusting the EQ. I can explain more later if you need more info.

Are you near a stereo store? Do that first if you can. If you need volume, none of the speakers you have will be able to play loudly without sounding bad. Why don't you tell me what is available in your area either local or shipping wise, that way we can narrow it down to your options.

bgunner · May 16, 2013

the problem i have found is the equlizer. the only one that comes with windows is in media player and will not effect sound if you are in a web browser. there are software ones you can by but when it comes to sound, if the main unit puts out a crappy signal then the best speakers and setup will not help it from sounding crappy.

If you want small speakers that sound great with medium loudness then go Bose. If you want speakers that are loud and sound decent then go JBL.

I can not stress enough how much the sound that comes out of standard onboard chips pails in comparison to a sound card. Budget in about 160 USD for a sound card then get speakers with the rest. I'm not sure about you but I will take quality over volume any day. volume is great at time but if the speakers and sound is distorting while the volume is up then why have the volume that loud? If the signal is clearer then the volume most times can go higher then if the signal is distorted.

thee_prisoner · May 16, 2013

RealTek onboard sound has an EQ. Although you may need to download additional software for more EQ options.http://www.realtek.com.tw/downloads...&Level=4&Conn=3&DownTypeID=3&GetDown=false#AC

A 160.00 sound card better sound superior to on board sound! For most people, the mobo sound is fine. Unless for some reason the mobo sound is crap but that usually isn't the case. I don't have a problem with sound cards. I use them but paying 160.00 to upgrade your sound is a waste of money unless you're doing music production and etc. A cheap one won't be worth the money unless something is wrong with the on board chip.

His problem(i'm pretty sure) isn't the onboard sound. It's playing loud volumes with small speakers. He is getting distorted sound because he is overdriving the amp and/or speakers. For the most part Bose is over priced for the lack of quality in most of their products.

Happy listening, the Prisoner...

bgunner · May 16, 2013

your right Realtek has an EQ so does VIA but they are all pre-set EQ settings. Having the full range gives so much more customization that can compensate for speaker deffest. A perk of having a sound card is also the ability to record any sound your speakers can play. Whether its gaming, music creation, video editing, movies and more it can open a hole new world. Not to mention no need to Download that song, just record it like we did with radio back when we had cassette tapes.

I just throw out the $160 USD mark as a base line, I paid $89 USD a few years back for mine so there are good ones at lower cost. I would not spend over $160 on a sound card myself. Stay away from the cheap ones as they are as bad as onboard sound. I am in agreement with The Prisoner on that.

Bose are good for small small spots to put speakers. They are small and produce a decent amount of volume. They are very expensive, some overly so, but do produce good sound.

The trick is to combine the amps RMS rating to the Speakers RMS rating to get the best sound volume out of the set. If the RMS is to low on speakers then you have the issue you have now. As The Prisoner pointed out, Over Driving the speakers. To much power. If the Amp has to low of an RMS the speaker will not respond the way it should and you will get low volume and distortion. Keep this in mind while searching for speakers and amps. It is very commonly over looked.

RMS is different than total max output.

here is a link that may help give you a bit more insight. it's a sticky in this section also. http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/58350-6-guide-audio-basics

Dontcopy · May 17, 2013

Hey again guys,

So I'm about to go and have a look at some speakers at a local store in a bit. But in terms of online stores here in NZ there are a few.

If you wanna have a look around on those links feel free

JB HiFi
http://www.jbhifi.co.nz/jb-hi-fi-home-audio/speakers/all/
This would be my preferred store.. but damn its expensive
http://www.computerlounge.co.nz/hometheatre/
and our online trading store
http://www.trademe.co.nz/electronics-photography/home-audio/speakers-and-stands

These caught my attention..
http://www.trademe.co.nz/electronics-photography/home-audio/speakers-and-stands/floor-speakers/auction-592567319.htm

I'm really struggling for places to get speakers

I'll have a good read through all those links tonight and have a play around with some other speaker configs and get back to you guys in a few hours with what I think.

Thanks again

EDIT: Just went and had a look around in a second hand store and there was really nothing of interest...

Dontcopy · May 17, 2013

Also, I just connected the Micros to the motherboard.. yes it does work.. although it is a little crude. and far from ideal. having two separate volume controls for two pairs of speakers is a pain. But thanks anyway, I think I'll still look at upgrading the speakers/adding more compatible speakers

thee_prisoner · May 17, 2013

If you're using mobo sound or or a sound card you will have 2 volume controls to set either way, one with the computer and then the Denon amp.

bgunner · May 17, 2013

to easily combat this issue is to: 1. set the volume on the PC to full. 2. then set the volume on the speakers to just before they start to distort. 3. turn your volume down on the PC to your desired listening level. 4. only use the PC volume from this point on. this eliminates the second volume switch.

Good Luck Have Fun and don't go def

Dontcopy · May 18, 2013

Thanks heaps, both of you.
Wish I could give you both best answer. But prisoner you did help out alot so I'm giving it to you.
If I need any extra help I'll start a new thread

thee_prisoner · May 18, 2013

Dontcopy :

You should start a new thread and maybe get more people helping you(bgunner had many helpful things to say). I checked out that "trade me" site and they had some good speakers on their like Wharfdale(the Diamond 8.1 are good speakers but will need to pair with a sub for volume(they had some listed)) , Kef, JBL to name a few. I didn't look at them all. I'm not sure in NZ where you live because shipping speakers can be expensive. What area do you live in? On the DELEISI brand, I would avoid those like the plague. I did see some very average Technic speakers(Idon't really like consumer grade Japanese speakers), they looked like they are from the late 70's early 80's, not great speakers but are cheap and will play loud.

The problem is that you want volume and good sound on a 350.00NZD budget. Used is going to be the only way you can do it and 350 might not be enough.

Anyways, if you could pick out some speakers that you might be interested in, I might be able help you narrow it the list down a bit.

Happy listening, the Prisoner...

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