New build, opinions and advice needed

muddster89 · May 19, 2013

Hello everyone,

Probably should have read the sticky :/, fail on my part. Either way i will leave my original post below and put the correct post here:

Approximate Purchase Date: e.g.: this week (the closer the better)

Budget Range: 1300-1700; have some play room although the less the better with functionality.

System Usage from Most to Least Important: Gaming, Movies, some game programming.

Are you buying a monitor: Possible

Parts to Upgrade: Everything other than Case ( ANTEC 900) and Power supply,Silverstone Sst-st1000, not the G model.

http://www.antec.com/pdf/manuals/900_EN_manual_revised.pdf, that is the manual for reference.

Do you need to buy OS: No

Preferred Website(s) for Parts: Newegg and amazon is okay but more centralized the better.

Location: Springfield, Massachusetts

Parts Preferences: Intel CPU
Overclocking: Yes / Maybe

SLI or Crossfire: Possible

Your Monitor Resolution: 1920x1080 ACER H233H, want to upgrade to 120hz not required but would like it.

Additional Comments: I like battlefield but never played on PC, I play MMO's mainly and like to have all the graphics on max to get full effect.

And Most Importantly, Why Are You Upgrading: Original build is 6 years old or so and I did not build it to be upgradable.

Have Windows 7, forget what edition.

Parts list: http://pcpartpicker.com/parts/partlist/

ORIGINAL POST BELOW:

I am in need of some advice. I have been looking into doing my second build. My first one lasted about 5-6 years. I mainly use it for gaming and want to be able to get the most out of my machine while still having the ability to upgrade and not do a whole build later. That was my mistake on my first build, upgradability(if that is a word lol )

So i have been doing research for about 4 days now reading tons of tech articles ect.
There are parts in there that I have listed such as the power supply that I have from my first build, it is in there for reference and will not be bought.

I was utilizing the dual harddrives, the SSD for loading ect and the 1TB for storage. I have 2 500gb HDD but they are 5-6 years old easy and are wearing out.

I can live without the 120hz but would really like to maximize my gaming experience since I have been pushing the one i have at the moment.

The one thing i have on my current rig is SLI and have found that i like dual graphics cards but read that you can get just as much out or a single as long as the setup is correct.

With that being said I am not afraid to spend some cash as long as it is going to be upgradable and last a good 5-8 years and still play games on high.

I am by no means a tech guru however i have a decent background in computer systems just not as much in how each one correlates to one another.

I appreciate all of the help that anyone offers. I am looking to build this rig within this week, the sooner the better

Thanks,
Alex

Jack Revenant · May 19, 2013

muddster89 :

Hello everyone,

Probably should have read the sticky :/, fail on my part. Either way i will leave my original post below and put the correct post here:

Approximate Purchase Date: e.g.: this week (the closer the better)

Budget Range: 1300-1700; have some play room although the less the better with functionality.

System Usage from Most to Least Important: Gaming, Movies, some game programming.

Are you buying a monitor: Possible

Parts to Upgrade: Everything other than Case ( ANTEC 900) and Power supply,Silverstone Sst-st1000, not the G model.

http://www.antec.com/pdf/manuals/900_EN_manual_revised.pdf, that is the manual for reference.

Do you need to buy OS: No

Preferred Website(s) for Parts: Newegg and amazon is okay but more centralized the better.

Location: Springfield, Massachusetts

Parts Preferences: Intel CPU
Overclocking: Yes / Maybe

SLI or Crossfire: Possible

Your Monitor Resolution: 1920x1080 ACER H233H, want to upgrade to 120hz not required but would like it.

Additional Comments: I like battlefield but never played on PC, I play MMO's mainly and like to have all the graphics on max to get full effect.

And Most Importantly, Why Are You Upgrading: Original build is 6 years old or so and I did not build it to be upgradable.

Have Windows 7, forget what edition.

Parts list: http://pcpartpicker.com/parts/partlist/

ORIGINAL POST BELOW:

I am in need of some advice. I have been looking into doing my second build. My first one lasted about 5-6 years. I mainly use it for gaming and want to be able to get the most out of my machine while still having the ability to upgrade and not do a whole build later. That was my mistake on my first build, upgradability(if that is a word lol )

So i have been doing research for about 4 days now reading tons of tech articles ect.
There are parts in there that I have listed such as the power supply that I have from my first build, it is in there for reference and will not be bought.

I was utilizing the dual harddrives, the SSD for loading ect and the 1TB for storage. I have 2 500gb HDD but they are 5-6 years old easy and are wearing out.

I can live without the 120hz but would really like to maximize my gaming experience since I have been pushing the one i have at the moment.

The one thing i have on my current rig is SLI and have found that i like dual graphics cards but read that you can get just as much out or a single as long as the setup is correct.

With that being said I am not afraid to spend some cash as long as it is going to be upgradable and last a good 5-8 years and still play games on high.

I am by no means a tech guru however i have a decent background in computer systems just not as much in how each one correlates to one another.

I appreciate all of the help that anyone offers. I am looking to build this rig within this week, the sooner the better

Thanks,
Alex

We can definitely set a good rig up for you, but given that you want to be able to upgrade, I strongly recommend waiting for Intel's Haswell processors, which launch on June 3rd. They're going to be in a different socket (LGA 1150) from Ivy Bridge (LGA 1155), which will be the new standard. As a result, you would need a new motherboard to upgrade your processor if you went with your present build, whereas you could likely save your mobo if you wait for Haswell.

muddster89 · May 19, 2013

[/quotemsg]

We can definitely set a good rig up for you, but given that you want to be able to upgrade, I strongly recommend waiting for Intel's Haswell processors, which launch on June 3rd. They're going to be in a different socket (LGA 1150) from Ivy Bridge (LGA 1155), which will be the new standard. As a result, you would need a new motherboard to upgrade your processor if you went with your present build, whereas you could likely save your mobo if you wait for Haswell.[/quotemsg]

That sounds like a fantastic idea! I heard about them but was not really sure about the specifics. Now with that being said could I build the computer around the Haswell and just wait for the haswell on the 3rd? Or are there no MOBO's out yet that support it? I will start doing some individual research to get a little better acquainted with the product.

Also from what I listed do those items still stay relavant to the new processors even with the MOBO change?

Also, I choose intel because i was reading that they are far superior to the AMD in respects to gaming side of things.

EDIT: so after some research i found that pre-orders for haswell are out and they are only 40 bucks more than the current i5 of the same model as far as I can tell which really is not that bad.

muddster89 · May 19, 2013

http://pcpartpicker.com/parts/partlist/

Updated parts list to include a haswell power source.

Jack Revenant · May 19, 2013

muddster89 :

We can definitely set a good rig up for you, but given that you want to be able to upgrade, I strongly recommend waiting for Intel's Haswell processors, which launch on June 3rd. They're going to be in a different socket (LGA 1150) from Ivy Bridge (LGA 1155), which will be the new standard. As a result, you would need a new motherboard to upgrade your processor if you went with your present build, whereas you could likely save your mobo if you wait for Haswell.[/quotemsg]

That sounds like a fantastic idea! I heard about them but was not really sure about the specifics. Now with that being said could I build the computer around the Haswell and just wait for the haswell on the 3rd? Or are there no MOBO's out yet that support it? I will start doing some individual research to get a little better acquainted with the product.

Also from what I listed do those items still stay relavant to the new processors even with the MOBO change?

Also, I choose intel because i was reading that they are far superior to the AMD in respects to gaming side of things.

EDIT: so after some research i found that pre-orders for haswell are out and they are only 40 bucks more than the current i5 of the same model as far as I can tell which really is not that bad.[/quotemsg]

I believe that some motherboards have been announced, but I haven't seen any reviews or comparisons yet. I would wait for launch to plan mobo+CPU, but we can work out the other bits. You'll want to keep flexible on GPU, though, as the nVidia 700 series may shake prices up.

Your links aren't working because you're getting them from the wrong place on the page. You need to hit either the button that says "BB Code" or the one that says "Plain Text" and paste what's in there.

$40 more is slightly more than I'd heard, but not terrible. You might want to wait for launch, though. While it's unlikely, there could be some terrible, undiscovered flaw which you'd wish you'd avoided, and waiting until reviews roll in helps guard against that.

muddster89 · May 19, 2013

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant / Benchmarks

CPU Cooler: Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO 82.9 CFM Sleeve Bearing CPU Cooler ($36.99 @ Newegg)
Memory: G.Skill Ripjaws X Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-2133 Memory ($72.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Samsung 840 Series 120GB 2.5" Solid State Disk ($99.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Seagate Constellation ES.3 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($114.99 @ Amazon)
Video Card: Sapphire Radeon HD 7970 GHz Edition 6GB Video Card ($558.49 @ Newegg)
Power Supply: OCZ Z Series Gold 1000W 80 PLUS Gold Certified ATX12V / EPS12V Power Supply ($109.99 @ Newegg)
Monitor: Acer GD235HZbid 120Hz 23.6" Monitor ($243.99 @ Amazon)
Total: $1237.43
(Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available.)
(Generated by PCPartPicker 2013-05-19 20:23 EDT-0400)

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835233032 <-- This is the heatsink that works with a Haswell that i found on newegg.

I am pretty flexible on the build as I am not a fan boy of any particular product as i have worked with and owned each Nvidia and radeon as well as AMD and intel. I just want to make sure i build it right this time instead of having to buy a second MOBO because i did not check north bridge for copatibility with GPU like on my last build lol

Jack Revenant · May 19, 2013

muddster89 :

Okay, there are three things I would change, in your shoes: 1, get the 3GB version of the 7970 Ghz. You have no need whatsoever of 6GB on a 1080p monitor. 2, I would go for a SeaSonic, Corsair, Antec, or XFX PSU. They're well-regarded, trustworthy brands (granted, the best from all of them are made by SeaSonic, so perhaps I should say "brand"). You also don't need 1000w unless you intend to CrossFire, though given your stated intent to upgrade, I assume that's the reason. 3, I would recommend the ASUS VG248QE. 144hz of lovely, and not meaningfully more expensive than the Acer you have there.

muddster89 · May 19, 2013

Jack Revenant :

muddster89 :

Okay, there are three things I would change, in your shoes: 1, get the 3GB version of the 7970 Ghz. You have no need whatsoever of 6GB on a 1080p monitor. 2, I would go for a SeaSonic, Corsair, Antec, or XFX PSU. They're well-regarded, trustworthy brands (granted, the best from all of them are made by SeaSonic, so perhaps I should say "brand"). You also don't need 1000w unless you intend to CrossFire, though given your stated intent to upgrade, I assume that's the reason. 3, I would recommend the ASUS VG248QE. 144hz of lovely, and not meaningfully more expensive than the Acer you have there.

Okay, I will gladly take a look at those. Yeah i will probably stay with the 1000W simply for that purpose because I am running SLI GTX 9800's ( that just tells you how old my PC is lol) And I liked them while they were up to par at the time. So will probably drop another GPU in there once the build is done.

Now for educational purposes, the ram of the GPU directly effects my video. But how does that translate to understanding what monitor to get?

Jack Revenant · May 19, 2013

muddster89 :

I can fully understand that. I use CrossFire 7970 Ghz. Editions with a 1000w PSU myself.

The simple version is that the RAM on a graphics card stores a frame before it's sent to the screen. With a larger resolution, the frame is larger, and more RAM is optimal. With a smaller resolution, the frame is not as large, and doesn't require as much RAM. Granted, it's actually way more complicated than that, but that's the most basic part of it. It's generally held that, for most current games (Skyrim being a notable exception), 2GB of RAM on a GPU is enough for 1080p, with 3 GB being more optimal for larger resolutions. 6 GB is rarely if ever needed.

Edit: Worthy of note, I'm more of a "practice" than a "theory" guy, so you could probably get a much better explaination from someone with more understanding of the underlying principles of computers. I'm more focused on "What makes it good for gaming?" than "How does it work?".

giltyler · May 19, 2013

If you find a trip to Boston in your future look at Microcenter they have savings of $60.00 to 80.00 on CPU and will take another discount on the Motherboard even if its on sale.
There are a few 1155 socket boards on sale for $60.00 off plus the $40.00.
Just FYI
http://www.microcenter.com/site/stores/default.aspx

Jack Revenant · May 19, 2013

giltyler :

I feel like we should petition to have a Microcenter bot added to the forum, which posts something along these lines in all build threads where the keyword "Microcenter" has not been mentioned. It seems like it would save you a hell of a lot of typing.

giltyler · May 19, 2013

Save typing and the System Builder money and on some of the sub 1K builds make improvement possible.

I would be curious to see some builds of the frequent contributors here.

Jack Revenant · May 19, 2013

giltyler :

Indeed so.

I'm afraid I don't follow regarding the frequent contributors, mate.

giltyler · May 19, 2013

Those of us that frequently pass on advice.

muddster89 · May 19, 2013

Jack Revenant :

muddster89 :

I can fully understand that. I use CrossFire 7970 Ghz. Editions with a 1000w PSU myself.

The simple version is that the RAM on a graphics card stores a frame before it's sent to the screen. With a larger resolution, the frame is larger, and more RAM is optimal. With a smaller resolution, the frame is not as large, and doesn't require as much RAM. Granted, it's actually way more complicated than that, but that's the most basic part of it. It's generally held that, for most current games (Skyrim being a notable exception), 2GB of RAM on a GPU is enough for 1080p, with 3 GB being more optimal for larger resolutions. 6 GB is rarely if ever needed.

Edit: Worthy of note, I'm more of a "practice" than a "theory" guy, so you could probably get a much better explaination from someone with more understanding of the underlying principles of computers. I'm more focused on "What makes it good for gaming?" than "How does it work?".

That works for me, I like the idea of what makes it good for gaming too

, the how does it work is a nice tid bit to have a true understanding. Just my personality i guess lol

Either way I will keep updating the list and updating this post. I figured I should start buying parts now then wait for the CPU and MOBO setups to come out. I have never been on the edge of technology so how soon do the setups usually take to come out?

Oh and the PSU i listed is one of the only ones at the moment setup for the Haswell, the other brands you mentioned are not available yet but i will keep an eye out for them.

Jack Revenant · May 19, 2013

muddster89 :

Jack Revenant :

muddster89 :

I can fully understand that. I use CrossFire 7970 Ghz. Editions with a 1000w PSU myself.

The simple version is that the RAM on a graphics card stores a frame before it's sent to the screen. With a larger resolution, the frame is larger, and more RAM is optimal. With a smaller resolution, the frame is not as large, and doesn't require as much RAM. Granted, it's actually way more complicated than that, but that's the most basic part of it. It's generally held that, for most current games (Skyrim being a notable exception), 2GB of RAM on a GPU is enough for 1080p, with 3 GB being more optimal for larger resolutions. 6 GB is rarely if ever needed.

Edit: Worthy of note, I'm more of a "practice" than a "theory" guy, so you could probably get a much better explaination from someone with more understanding of the underlying principles of computers. I'm more focused on "What makes it good for gaming?" than "How does it work?".

That works for me, I like the idea of what makes it good for gaming too

, the how does it work is a nice tid bit to have a true understanding. Just my personality i guess lol

Either way I will keep updating the list and updating this post. I figured I should start buying parts now then wait for the CPU and MOBO setups to come out. I have never been on the edge of technology so how soon do the setups usually take to come out?

Oh and the PSU i listed is one of the only ones at the moment setup for the Haswell, the other brands you mentioned are not available yet but i will keep an eye out for them.

More information is good information, I say.

Well, I'd definitely buy stuff that 1, is on sale, and 2, you know will work with the final setup (case, HDD, etc.). Other than that, no need to rush.

SeaSonic has a list, as I recall. They're generally the best brand anyway, actually.

giltyler · May 20, 2013

Nice look at the new platform Z87 Needs dual 8 pin ATX power connectors.
http://www.tomshardware.com/news/MSI-Z87-MPower-Haswell,22594.html

muddster89 · May 20, 2013

giltyler :

Thanks for the link of information!

muddster89 · May 20, 2013

Jack Revenant :

muddster89 :

Jack Revenant :

That works for me, I like the idea of what makes it good for gaming too

, the how does it work is a nice tid bit to have a true understanding. Just my personality i guess lol

Either way I will keep updating the list and updating this post. I figured I should start buying parts now then wait for the CPU and MOBO setups to come out. I have never been on the edge of technology so how soon do the setups usually take to come out?

Oh and the PSU i listed is one of the only ones at the moment setup for the Haswell, the other brands you mentioned are not available yet but i will keep an eye out for them.

More information is good information, I say.

Well, I'd definitely buy stuff that 1, is on sale, and 2, you know will work with the final setup (case, HDD, etc.). Other than that, no need to rush.

SeaSonic has a list, as I recall. They're generally the best brand anyway, actually.

Found it, http://www.bit-tech.net/news/2013/05/14/seasonic-confirms-list-of-haswell-compatibl/1
now to find one of the PSU's.

muddster89 · May 20, 2013

Updated parts list with power source and monitor.

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant / Benchmarks

CPU Cooler: Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO 82.9 CFM Sleeve Bearing CPU Cooler ($29.98 @ Outlet PC)
Memory: G.Skill Ripjaws X Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-2133 Memory ($72.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Samsung 840 Series 120GB 2.5" Solid State Disk ($93.99 @ Adorama)
Storage: Seagate Constellation ES.3 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($114.99 @ Amazon)
Video Card: Sapphire Radeon HD 7970 GHz Edition 3GB Video Card ($445.91 @ Newegg)
Power Supply: SeaSonic X Series 1050W 80 PLUS Gold Certified ATX12V / EPS12V Power Supply ($216.82 @ Newegg)
Monitor: Asus VG248QE 144Hz 24.0" Monitor ($266.99 @ Amazon)
Total: $1241.67
(Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available.)
(Generated by PCPartPicker 2013-05-20 00:33 EDT-0400)

muddster89 · May 20, 2013

giltyler :

Yeah i looked into stopping by the store in NY or boston the NY one is way out of the way and I see not time soon going to boston, the fuel for my truck to get to boston would cost as much to just pay the extra online lol

Thanks for the information

Jack Revenant · May 20, 2013

muddster89 :

Looks pretty good. Two questions: 1, why go with that RAM? It has quite high CAS latency, relative to the cheaper Corsair Vengeance low profile. 2, and this is pretty minor, why take the Constellation over, say, the Barracuda, given that you intend to have an SSD?

muddster89 · May 20, 2013

Jack Revenant :

As stated in my earlier post, i am no tech GURU, i can usually get the gyst of what people are talking about with computers but when it comes to the nitty gritty I ask for advice, such as CAS latency i will now have to look up an understand it to know why it is bad lol

As for the constellation, i think i was just picking one I liked at the time to get a build project together and put tweeks in afterwards, I have always run HDD barracudas. Guess i should just stay on that path lol

EDIT: Could have been the cache value, i know it is important just forget why and how much at this point.

Jack Revenant · May 20, 2013

muddster89 :

Jack Revenant :

As stated in my earlier post, i am no tech GURU, i can usually get the gyst of what people are talking about with computers but when it comes to the nitty gritty I ask for advice, such as CAS latency i will now have to look up an understand it to know why it is bad lol

As for the constellation, i think i was just picking one I liked at the time to get a build project together and put tweeks in afterwards, I have always run HDD barracudas. Guess i should just stay on that path lol

EDIT: Could have been the cache value, i know it is important just forget why and how much at this point.

Fair enough. When I started out, I just made a list of parts that two or more people rated as "expert" in a related area had recommended. It worked quite well, actually.

In the low-mid range, I tend to go Barracuda, or Western Digital Caviar Black at most. The Constellation just seems a bit overpriced.

muddster89 · May 20, 2013

Jack Revenant :

muddster89 :

Fair enough. When I started out, I just made a list of parts that two or more people rated as "expert" in a related area had recommended. It worked quite well, actually.

In the low-mid range, I tend to go Barracuda, or Western Digital Caviar Black at most. The Constellation just seems a bit overpriced.

Got it, With the antec 900 case i can not see a reason why it would not work with this build. Does anyone else see a reason why i would need a new case?

New build, opinions and advice needed

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