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Optiplex 780 PCIe slot and dual slot Graphics Card problem

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May 22, 2013 8:43:00 PM

I have a GTX 460 and a GTX 650Ti.

I was upgrading my hardware for a few tasks but I did not know that it'll be a big pain putting a dual slot card in the Dell Optiplex 780. I would appreciate any advice for utilizing my current cards (1 of them) in the system. I tried searching for this problem but couldn't find a concrete answer except for cutting the bracket with tin snips. Attaching pictures for reference. I'm a student on a budget and any help will be really appreciated :wahoo: 

Please click the thumbnails for full images:








a b U Graphics card
May 23, 2013 12:30:49 AM

Unfortunately I know your problem very well, also I have limited iPhone connection so cannot made nice posts, will provide link to my other post http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/id-1677432/cpu-power-...
There is only 1 option - cut off dual bracket. But, have you upgraded your PSU (power supply unit).
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May 23, 2013 12:18:38 PM

Thank you so much Kisianik! I would really appreciate some help to tackle this one. As for the PSU, I still haven't upgraded it yet as I was looking for a compatible PSU. Most that I see >400W have depth of 5" or larger while the standard 255W PSU in the case is 4". Did you have the same PSU problem?
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May 23, 2013 8:13:46 PM

Kisianik said:
Unfortunately I know your problem very well, also I have limited iPhone connection so cannot made nice posts, will provide link to my other post http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/id-1677432/cpu-power-...
There is only 1 option - cut off dual bracket. But, have you upgraded your PSU (power supply unit).


So new updates, I tried using the MSI GTX 650 Ti and removed the bracket completely. Now the problem is that the heat sink cover hits the processor exhaust system! Geez, I am really not liking Dell mini towers at this moment. Any other suggestions? I really wanted to get this beast up and running but seems
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a b U Graphics card
May 23, 2013 11:34:04 PM

Do you have other choices in video cards? Or you stuck with those 2?
If there is no other choice (return those video cards), you would have to spend more on other, non traditionL ways to cool your processor.

So basically, I need answer can you return those video cards?
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May 24, 2013 10:08:47 AM

I suppose I can return/resell it. I got the GTX 460 from eBay and I can sell it off and I got the MSI GTX 560 Ti from Newegg in a recent deal for $84.

But if I stick with them, is there any other cheap solution like liquid cooling for the processor? I saw a Zalman liquid cooler for $50 on Newegg


Kisianik said:
Do you have other choices in video cards? Or you stuck with those 2?
If there is no other choice (return those video cards), you would have to spend more on other, non traditionL ways to cool your processor.

So basically, I need answer can you return those video cards?


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a b U Graphics card
May 24, 2013 11:05:56 AM

First about me. I am on light vocation now - getting rest from civilization, so I have iPhone only to communicate until Sunday or Monday, and it is impossible to post images or do long posting using iPhone.

So let me try to explain how cooling works in your case.
This would not make any sense to you, but the front CPU fan is actually pushing air into the case through the cooler, and this air later exits via exhaust holes at the back of Optiplex. Designing this way, Dell used strange motherboard configuration with the line of about 8 (approximately) transistors, called Mosfets, those Mosfets located between CPU cooler and intake fan. So, when intake fan is pushing air into the case, those Mosfets got cooled down first before the CPU.

Since I cannot post a picture, just google "Optiplex 780 motherboard" and take a look at the pictures.
So any water coolers not going to fly here, because they are cooling only processor and nothing around them. Just another cooler would be very challenging because of specific, most likely proprietary CPU screw locations.

So, what are the options. 460 is too long and most likely will touch CPU cooler metal. 650 (you mentioned 560, so what you have?) has some potential as long as GPU cooler would not touch metal parts of CPU cooler, on top of this you would have to cut bracket in half.
So let see if it fits. Please remove the plastic shroud from the CPU cooler first, and second, try to fit 650 card withou bracket in, is GPU cooler touching CPU cooler metal? If the answer is no, we can go this way. If the answer is yes - you have to return/sale those 2 cards and get the card which can fit.

So lets try fit testing first, report results back ASAP.
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May 24, 2013 10:58:05 PM

Sorry Kisianik! I hope you enjoy your vacation. I appreciate you helping me out in my situation. Btw...I did get what you said. I am an information systems major and although don't have intensive background with hardware, I do understand it theoretically. Nonetheless I do get in a mess! :wahoo: 

I apologize about the confusion....it is a 650 Ti. But either ways, I'm going to make it easy and get rid of both the cards. I'm starting fresh and looking at single bracket cards that can fit in the system without playing with Dell's design. Would appreciate some recommendations of cards with GDDR5 memory. Also, I haven't used or seen a lot of benchmark so I'm open to nVidia or AMD architecture. So far, I saw GTX 650 and HD 7750 in single slot format.

Also, I'll have to upgrade the PSU in any case since the stock is 255W. So recommendations for that are much appreciated.

My current config:
Dell 780 MT
Core 2 Duo E8500 3.16 Ghz
8 GB Ram
255W PSU

Used for: Dreamweaver, Illustrator, Photoshop, Lightroom
Want to: Casual gaming (Battlefield, Company of Heroes, COD)

Kisianik said:
First about me. I am on light vocation now - getting rest from civilization, so I have iPhone only to communicate until Sunday or Monday, and it is impossible to post images or do long posting using iPhone.

So let me try to explain how cooling works in your case.
This would not make any sense to you, but the front CPU fan is actually pushing air into the case through the cooler, and this air later exits via exhaust holes at the back of Optiplex. Designing this way, Dell used strange motherboard configuration with the line of about 8 (approximately) transistors, called Mosfets, those Mosfets located between CPU cooler and intake fan. So, when intake fan is pushing air into the case, those Mosfets got cooled down first before the CPU.

Since I cannot post a picture, just google "Optiplex 780 motherboard" and take a look at the pictures.
So any water coolers not going to fly here, because they are cooling only processor and nothing around them. Just another cooler would be very challenging because of specific, most likely proprietary CPU screw locations.

So, what are the options. 460 is too long and most likely will touch CPU cooler metal. 650 (you mentioned 560, so what you have?) has some potential as long as GPU cooler would not touch metal parts of CPU cooler, on top of this you would have to cut bracket in half.
So let see if it fits. Please remove the plastic shroud from the CPU cooler first, and second, try to fit 650 card withou bracket in, is GPU cooler touching CPU cooler metal? If the answer is no, we can go this way. If the answer is yes - you have to return/sale those 2 cards and get the card which can fit.

So lets try fit testing first, report results back ASAP.


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May 26, 2013 1:57:49 PM

Hope you got back safely! I'm sure you would like to get back to vacationing. So, here are my questions:

Graphics card related:

Which single bracket card (from the ones you suggested in the other post) do you suggest is better for taking the load of gaming - Battlefield 3, Black Ops 2, Company of Heroes? (I know the card that can handle the gaming will be fine with Illustrator, Photoshop, Lightroom)

I'm looking to play the games at High resolution (I really wish) but will settle for medium. I know my limitation with playing the games at Ultra settings. Also, I'm powering a 24" Dell U2412M with 1920 x 1200 and have a spare Acer 19" with 1366 x 768 if needed for playing at higher settings.

PSU:

Which PSU do you suggest for:

1 x DVD-RW
2 x HDD 7200RPM in RAID 1
4 x RAM DIMM 1600 Mhz
1 x Graphics Card (TBD)
1 x Monitor

I see that you use Corsair GS 600 but they're discontinued now (newegg) and wanted something that can handle the load. Also, I read that things will need to be bent to fit the PSU. Would appreciate any advice. The current PSU is Width: 5.9"; Height: 3.75"; Depth: 4".

Here's the picture of the inside:




Thanks Kisianik for helping out!

Kisianik said:
From now until Sunday, read this http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/forum/id-1677432/cpu-powe...
There you will find my 2 posts about poser supply and video card.
Get you questions ready during Saturday, I hope Sunday to start using my desktop.

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Best solution

a b U Graphics card
May 27, 2013 9:21:29 AM

I am back, and now I have my PC.

I spent about 3 hours on checking current stock of video cards which can fit, trying the strongest ones only, so I will list links below for anything which fits, no recommendations here yet, I did not search through 7750 as I am tired and come back to 7750 if you needed
7750 newegg all not checked http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=E...

7770

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

GTX650

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

And this one might not fit, there is a problem with accuracy of dimensions, even on PNY site, why this card is noticeable - 2GB DDR5
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

PSU
500 watt is enough since all cards which can fit require 450 watt at most, however if you want to be safe and overprotected, and use this power supply in the future for better PC, 600 watt would be better, depends on your budget
I did not understand about discontinuation you mentioned, models tend to be upgraded, so
500 watt http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

600 watt, M at the end means Modular, less unnecessary cables

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=17-139-...

And missing GS600

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

And to make you think about your future, consider reading this manual, scroll down to CPU compatibility - you can have Quad if you wish, and this will dramatically improve your gaming abilities!
Manual http://i.dell.com/sites/content/business/solutions/engi...

From this manual the best CPU in any system is an Intel® Core™ 2 Quad Q9650/3.00GHz, 12M, 1333FSB.

And as you can see from the same manual your RAM can go up to 16GB (for your professional needs) of 1333, I don't know where you got idea about 1600 RAM, do you have physically installed this speed?

Will comeback, I hope soon to sort for the best video card, but I think it is between 7770 and 650 2GB, if 650 was TI it would be a winner, so 7770 most likely.

Share
a b U Graphics card
May 27, 2013 11:13:50 AM

This is the strongest choice for now and it is not going to last GTX 650TI,
http://www.amazon.com/Sparkle-SX650TI1024KD-SPARKLESX65... unfortunately it is $156.68, not cheap, but this is the best by performance which can fit in this case, this card is going out of production, so time is limited.
I am not pushing you, just advising.
I could not find any reviews.
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June 5, 2013 12:11:09 PM

Thanks Kisianik! That helped a lot!

Based on your suggestions, I did a bit of searching and found a DELL XPS 435MT 460W PSU with 2-12V Rails and 20+4 pin for motherboard and it'll fit the case, perfectly (4" Depth)! I also found POWERCOLOR HD 7770 v2 for $89 that has the fan a little further towards the bracket which will allow proper cooling. As for the 1600 RAM, I know they'll cut back to 1333 on my system but I wanted to be a little future proof and bagged them in a deal. I'll replace them with stock 1333 3GB that came with my desktop when I retire the system at the end of summer. I think these upgrades will help me get a little more out of the sale as well.

Thanks for the great help that you provided! I'm probably going to build my system when I get paid for the project so that I can have an upgradeable rig moving on.
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February 12, 2014 11:01:29 AM

desisau said:
Thank you so much Kisianik! I would really appreciate some help to tackle this one. As for the PSU, I still haven't upgraded it yet as I was looking for a compatible PSU. Most that I see >400W have depth of 5" or larger while the standard 255W PSU in the case is 4". Did you have the same PSU problem?


Sure, I see this is an old post. But came here looking for a graphics card solution to the dual slot Geforce 560 Ti which I'd like to get for my Dell Optiplex 780 MT just like yours. Just to let you know I have replaced the 305 watt PSU with a Corsair 650 watt PSU easily in this system. Did you ever solve the dual slot Graphics card problem?
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a b U Graphics card
February 16, 2014 8:34:13 AM

ddavel544 said:
desisau said:
Thank you so much Kisianik! I would really appreciate some help to tackle this one. As for the PSU, I still haven't upgraded it yet as I was looking for a compatible PSU. Most that I see >400W have depth of 5" or larger while the standard 255W PSU in the case is 4". Did you have the same PSU problem?


Sure, I see this is an old post. But came here looking for a graphics card solution to the dual slot Geforce 560 Ti which I'd like to get for my Dell Optiplex 780 MT just like yours. Just to let you know I have replaced the 305 watt PSU with a Corsair 650 watt PSU easily in this system. Did you ever solve the dual slot Graphics card problem?


It is possible now, due to the new developments, but it requires a few prerequisites.

First, help me to save time - how video card connects to the back panel opening, by screws or by lever?

Second, have you used 2 PCI slots below PCIE slot? If no, you have a chance to adapt dual bracket GPU!
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February 16, 2014 10:26:57 AM

Kisianik said:
ddavel544 said:
desisau said:
Thank you so much Kisianik! I would really appreciate some help to tackle this one. As for the PSU, I still haven't upgraded it yet as I was looking for a compatible PSU. Most that I see >400W have depth of 5" or larger while the standard 255W PSU in the case is 4". Did you have the same PSU problem?


Sure, I see this is an old post. But came here looking for a graphics card solution to the dual slot Geforce 560 Ti which I'd like to get for my Dell Optiplex 780 MT just like yours. Just to let you know I have replaced the 305 watt PSU with a Corsair 650 watt PSU easily in this system. Did you ever solve the dual slot Graphics card problem?


It is possible now, due to the new developments, but it requires a few prerequisites.

First, help me to save time - how video card connects to the back panel opening, by screws or by lever?

Second, have you used 2 PCI slots below PCIE slot? If no, you have a chance to adapt dual bracket GPU!


Thanks for the response, Yeah, it's a mini tower with cards connecting via Lever. And I'm using the 3rd slot down, (the 2nd PCI slot) for sound card, leaving 1st PCI slot open. So, do I need a PCI-express adapter to fit into the 1st PCI slot? Is there such a thing?

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February 16, 2014 11:14:48 AM

Kisianik said:
ddavel544 said:
desisau said:
Thank you so much Kisianik! I would really appreciate some help to tackle this one. As for the PSU, I still haven't upgraded it yet as I was looking for a compatible PSU. Most that I see >400W have depth of 5" or larger while the standard 255W PSU in the case is 4". Did you have the same PSU problem?


Sure, I see this is an old post. But came here looking for a graphics card solution to the dual slot Geforce 560 Ti which I'd like to get for my Dell Optiplex 780 MT just like yours. Just to let you know I have replaced the 305 watt PSU with a Corsair 650 watt PSU easily in this system. Did you ever solve the dual slot Graphics card problem?


It is possible now, due to the new developments, but it requires a few prerequisites.

First, help me to save time - how video card connects to the back panel opening, by screws or by lever?

Second, have you used 2 PCI slots below PCIE slot? If no, you have a chance to adapt dual bracket GPU!


OK, I'm seeing on another thread showing my best 2 options for a single slot card is between the XFX AMD Radeon HD 7750 1GB GDDR5 and the PowerColor AX7750 1GBD5-DH. And also saw a suggestion of cutting off the top portion of the dual slot grill. If I did go with a dual, and cut it in half ...will it fit OK?

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a b U Graphics card
February 16, 2014 3:05:54 PM

Read this http://www.tomshardware.com/answers/id-1999946/sapphire...

Since you have sound card, it makes things more complicated - you can use only short and light card, because it will have to use your sound card as support, this is not a good idea, but it might work.

If not, you got the idea with 7750 cards, I will try to look for better one from new generations, but no promises.
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February 16, 2014 3:09:44 PM

Kisianik said:
Read this http://www.tomshardware.com/answers/id-1999946/sapphire...

Since you have sound card, it makes things more complicated - you can use only short and light card, because it will have to use your sound card as support, this is not a good idea, but it might work.

If not, you got the idea with 7750 cards, I will try to look for better one from new generations, but no promises.


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February 16, 2014 3:10:17 PM

Kisianik said:
Read this http://www.tomshardware.com/answers/id-1999946/sapphire...

Since you have sound card, it makes things more complicated - you can use only short and light card, because it will have to use your sound card as support, this is not a good idea, but it might work.

If not, you got the idea with 7750 cards, I will try to look for better one from new generations, but no promises.


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February 16, 2014 3:53:10 PM

Kisianik said:
Read this http://www.tomshardware.com/answers/id-1999946/sapphire...

Since you have sound card, it makes things more complicated - you can use only short and light card, because it will have to use your sound card as support, this is not a good idea, but it might work.

If not, you got the idea with 7750 cards, I will try to look for better one from new generations, but no promises.


Thanks for all your help, Kisianik, I have played some games on my current EVGA NVIDIA GeForce GT 220 Video Graphics Card, and have had no problems with my Creative Labs Sound Blaster X-Fi Elite Pro Card I/O 7.1-Channel. :
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Creative-Labs-Sound-Blaster-X-F...
But for my Crysis 3 and Bioshock Infinite games, I need Direct X 11, which the GT220 is not. And the 2 cards I mentioned seem to be outta my price range. Wanted either one cuz they are DDR 5 with DX 11. So I have settled on a XFX Radeon HD 6670 2GB 128-Bit DDR3 PCI Express 2.1 x16 HD-667X-CNF3, that I just got on eBay for $52 total:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/291074553349?ssPageName=STRK:ME...
, it's factory refurbished, is a DirectX 11, DDR3, single slot. And from what I've seen on You Tube, plays games just fine. I'm an old guy of 62, who will be retiring in a few months, and will have lots of time on me hands. So I plan to play video games, and download movies (free,via torrents) to keep me busy while I collect Social Security. My prior desktop was a Dell Optiplex GX 280, but I will need Windows 7 after April this yr. So I got me a refurbished Dell Optiplex 780 mini tower, w/Win 7 Pro, complete with a 19" Asus monitor and Key. + mouse for $200 total on eBay (I luv eBay!, lol). It came with 3GB, but I've pumped it up to 10GB DDR3 RAM (8GB crucial, 2x4 for $75), and cloned the 250 HDD to a 1TB Western Digital HDD. Also installed a Corsaire 650 Watt PSU ($30)...runs smooth and quite! Really wanted to get me a DDR5 card, but maybe wait till next yr when the price drops to like 50 or 60 bucks. So for now, I've got this Dell 780 as close as I can get to a gaming rig for about $400 total, not bad. My XFX Radeon HD 6670 card should be here by next week, let ya know how it goes.

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