Random Shutdowns - possibly hardware related

arnaudm

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Hello everyone,

UPDATE : http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/answers/id-1684273/random-shutdowns-possibly-hardware-related.html#10905578

First off : thank you for taking the time to read this.
I've been experiencing a curious case of random shutdowns for the past couple of months, my computer is 2 years old and performed flawlessly until then. It is truly random : my computer can handle modern games (bioshock 3) just fine for hours or shutdown 5 minutes after launching game. It also crashed while working or watching a video.
I'm no stranger to troubleshoot PC problems but I find myself puzzled by this one.

My rig
MB : Asus X58 Sabertooth
Proc : i7-950
GC : GeForce 460GTX Cyclone
Ram : 3Go corsair
PSU : corsair 750W
HDD : hybrid SSD 1To

Full Description
Everything stops without warning, sit in off state for 5 secondes and then boot back up automatically. In rare cases, during boot, the computer shuts off again only to reboot and shutdown again. It happened maybe twice but looped like this a few times until I got the cable off myself.

The weird part is that I can use my computer normally for extensive periods - 10+ days - until I get 3 shutdowns in a couple hours.

What I already looked into
My first guess was heat obviously so I opened the case, cleaned it up and ran HWMonitor while gaming a few times. The processor temp was around 60°C while graphic card was at 40°C so no real evidence of overheating; even when using low ressources the computer was shutting down nonetheless.
The fans all seem to be working normally.

Next step was the Event Viewer. The critical log was just stating the obvious : computer did not shutdown correctly so I looked in log I could find.
No events happened at the time of the shut down or none that I could link at least.

Next steps ?
I have yet to run MemTest or proceed to switch my PSU - I have a rather tight budget and no access to another PSU so I'd like to be confident this is the problem before doing so ;)


If you have any idea what to do next, I'd be grateful.
Thanks !
 
Solution
agreed, the PSU would be my recommendation. Unfortunately this is the nature of PC troubleshooting, with a problem like this you can tear your hair out trying different "tests" when your best option is to switch out components and start crossing things off the list.

Rosco100

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Apr 19, 2013
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I've had a very similar experience back when I built a 1st gen i5 machine. Random shutdowns and bluescreens for no apparent reason, often close together, but at other times running fine for weeks at a time.

Started by reinstalling windows and flashing bios, then like you, I automatically assumed: "HEAT" - but I brought an after market cooler, re-seated the cpu a few times, tried several thermal pastes, ran with the case open, and tested with games and none of it made a difference. It was still ok sometimes and not others.

Next thought: RAM - tried running with just one stick at a time, and the problem got better but not much, so I did a mem-test, and one stick failed, so I RMA'd it and got new ones but the problem came back quite quickly.

Next thought: POWER - tried a different PSU, and made sure it was a beefy one in case i'd got the powerdraw wrong. Didn't work.

Over a 3 month period I individually swapped out every component including mobo. God knows how Ebuyer let me to RMA that many parts!! In the end sold it to a friend for not much and he eventually fixed it. Apparently it was two intermittent faults, PSU and RAM, in his opinion caused by a buildup of static, (i'd used insulating washers to screw down the motherboard, so it couldn't earth).

I know this is essentially a list of solutions that didn't work, but hopefully its helpful anyway. If you're on a tight budget I wouldn't recommend buying a new PSU as its not garunteed to solve the problem.
 

bdiddytampa

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These are really tough to diagnose lol. My first thought would be a short of some kind, or your PSU going bad seeing as how the shutdown happens without warning or event errors. I had a problem with my PC freezing intermittently (different fault all together) no blue screen just a freeze so I had to hard reset, and no errors or faults in the event viewer. So it just became a case of swapping stuff out and trying different parts until it worked again. My problem ended up being a failing GPU.
 

arnaudm

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Considering the computer isn't new, I'd tend to rule out the static issue but I'll take a look into it just in case I've missed something.
It is quite a feat you had there by the way, Rosco100 ! Sadly, in my case, I can't RMA so I'll have to find another way.

And yes, bdiddytampa, it's quite annoying to find the culprit. I've spent quite a while searching for software issue then went on to reset everything from mobo to windows still no change. Hopefully it won't get to the point my computer dies on me so I still have time to check things.

Anyway thank you both for your time, it does help to have another perspective ;)
 

bdiddytampa

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IMO usually by reloading OS and starting from scratch, you've eliminated the software as the culprit. Shutoffs like this are usually power related, my money would be on the PSU. I usually keep an old PSU in my basement, was able to diagnose problems with it before. You never know :p but that is where I would start. Good luck man, hope you find the culprit and it isn't expensive to fix!
 

arnaudm

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I wanted to confirm my previous thoughts on temperature and RAM so I ran another MemTest as well as a Prime95 torture test for a while and here's the screen shot of the temp results - it seems a bit high but nothing to be worried about I'd say (I took the screenshot right after test so max temp on cpu were still accurate) :
408525Capture.png



Thanks for the kind words mate ! Yeah the PSU is the one I'm currently looking at, could be worse price wise I guess, but I'll try to eliminate everything else in case something was overlooked.
Can't hurt to practice those MacGyver skills every once in a while ;)
 

arnaudm

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No overclocking and bios is on factory settings.
Now that you mention it I had an "Overclocking failed" message prompt from the bios after a shutdown a while ago, before resetting, although I'm sure I never tried to manually override anything and it only happened once so I forgot about it.
Does that help ?
 

bdiddytampa

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That is weird, never seen an error message like that. Only errors I've got from OCing is blue screens lol :-\ If it only happened once I wouldn't worry about it. I was just curious, sometimes OCing can cause instant fail messages and shutdowns. Do you have factory cooler for your CPU or aftermarket?
 

arnaudm

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Guess that was a bios error, I found a thread about this and it seems Asus specific : http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/forum/318128-31-overclocking-failed-error-what-causing-this

The CPU only has a stock cooler cleaned recently.
 

bdiddytampa

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Yeah that is pretty much what I figured, some kind of intermittent BIOS fault. If it happens again or more often then I would flash BIOS, otherwise the BIOS is one of those things where if it ain't broke don't fix it lol.

Stock cooler will work fine as long as you don't overclock and again, all your temps are perfectly ok. I was curious why you were in the low 70s with no overclock, but with the stock cooler that is sometimes where they will run. As long as you aren't going up into the 80s and 90s, there is nothing to worry about.
 

arnaudm

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That was also during a torture test, normal temps while gaming (heavily modded skyrim) are around 60°c max. Anyway, next step I guess is to thoroughly clean with compressed air and if that fails replace PSU - I do have a tendency to unplug the cord on a daily basis after computer use, yeah you can call me OCD on this one ;) - to hopefully resolve this.
 

bdiddytampa

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Haha, my PC stays on 24/7 so the only time I unplug the PSU is for maintenance :p Good luck!
 

arnaudm

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Ok quick update on my current status :

The computer has been working erratically for the last couple of days now and shutdown is expected after 15 minutes on first boot and every 2 mins after that unrelated to what the comp is doing : full load or idle doesn't matter much it seems.
Disconnecting PSU and waiting a bit does seem to slow down the process but intervals are definitely shrinking.

What didn't work :
- First thing I tried was to dust the hell off the inside, the case is cleaner than a guy on his 1st date : didn't work.
- I checked every power plugs connected to the motherboard : nothing found.
- I switched the power button cable with reset as my Antec case is known to have a weak power button which could lead to static : didn't work.

What helped a bit but didn't solve the problem :
- I opened the case, unplugged every components except CPU and powered up : comp ran for 2hrs + without trouble.
- I proceeded to add a new piece of hardware every 2 hours until something broke (RAM, graphic card, HDD, mouse, keyboard and even the headset) : the computer ran fine for 2hrs+ each time.
- Last step was to boot windows after a new Memtest : comp worked for a couple hours and ... wait for it ... shutdown as usual, you guessed right.

After 10 hours of testing, and watching youtube vids on a 7" screen while waiting, I am nowhere close to find an explanation. I know its not Windows (god knows I wished it was) nor temperature as everything was thoroughly monitored whenever a shutdown happened so it could be pretty much anything.

I'm exhausted and I guess it all boils down to : Should I buy a PSU and hope for the best or those last experiments made someone tick on something I could have missed ? :)

Thanks for your help.

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Rosco100

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I know how exhausting it can be thinking about a problem for that long and not coming up with a decent solution. Sounds like buying a new PSU and hoping for the best if the only suggestion anybodies got. Good luck.
 

bdiddytampa

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agreed, the PSU would be my recommendation. Unfortunately this is the nature of PC troubleshooting, with a problem like this you can tear your hair out trying different "tests" when your best option is to switch out components and start crossing things off the list.
 
Solution

arnaudm

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My HDD is not even close to 35% on both partitions, I keep things at a minimum, somewhere around 350-400Go free in total.

Anyway that's settled, a new PSU and some hope while I'm at it. I'll update on the situation either way in case it's something different entirely.
 

TenPc

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What is your ram?

3Go corsair - "corsair Force 3 120 Go SSD"
Make sure it is on its own cable line not with anything else attached like a second hdd otherwise, as they are different V/A, you get hiccups as each drive vies for its own set of V/A.

Edit - I don't think it is the PSU, it's the configuration of cables, per se.
 

arnaudm

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I have 3 x 1Gb sticks of RAM (DDR3 1333 Corsair brand). Not sure I understood what you meant about the Corsair drive though but in any case my HDD is already on its own cable; actually I don't have any overcrowded cable at all.

Anyway I had to try and change the PSU - which I did yesterday - and see if that works in the long run. The computer is already on minimal hardware and every bit of it cleaned squeaky-clean including connectors. If that fails I'll probably will be forced to change a lot of components as I've done everything I was able to try but it can't be helped I guess :)
 

TenPc

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You stated 3Go Corsair as your ram, and I assume most others thought you meant 3GB ram, perhaps that is what you meant?

3 x 1gb of DDR3 ram, I can't find any ram that is only in modules of 1gb other than for laptops.


The only way to attain a 1gb module would be to split a paired kit -
CORSAIR XMS3 2GB ( 2 X 1GB ) PC3-10600 1333MHz 240-pin DDR3 Dual Channel Memory Kit
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000RKUW8I

Remove the single stick of ram that it is not part of a pair.

Edi -
3gb of ram is not really good enough, you'd need at least 4gb., and you do need paired kits and not single modules.
 

arnaudm

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Oh ok I see, I'm in france so I'm used to Go I forgot about that. Yes I meant 3Gb ram in triple channel, I might need to look again as it might not be Corsair brand after all, my bad. You're right on having not enough RAM I'll change to 8 or 16Gb for a 64 bit windows, mine is a 32 bit version and I've been too lazy to update ;)

Anyway I'm glad to report my computer is now working fine since the PSU change so I'll assume that was the issue until proven wrong - which could still happen with that kind of weird random malfunction...

Thanks everyone, you've been a great help !
 

bdiddytampa

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Great to hear!! Glad we could help!!