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Coming back to PC...Build for Maya etc...

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May 28, 2013 3:07:56 PM

Approximate Purchase Date:

Well, not approximate but I will have the money within a month.

Budget Range:

$1,800-2,000 (If somethine would make a MASSIVE difference I could go slightly over but would take a little more time)

System Usage from Most to Least Important:

Animation in Maya (I'm starting to learn), editing in AE/Premier

Parts Not Required:

Mouse/Keyboard

Preferred Website(s) for Parts:

I have Amazon prime, Newegg

Country:

USA

Parts Preferences:

N/A Whatever graphics play well with Maya

Additional Comments:

Thanks for any help if you can list some suggestions or if you can point me towards some sort of guide. Thanks in advance!

More about : coming back build maya

May 28, 2013 3:22:29 PM

Okay so here is a build that I came up with. Also, I decided on the 2011 socket because its more driven towards what you are doing professional work. I also went with a beefy air cooler because its really quiet it keeps things really cool and in the event you decided to overclock it you could with peace of mind that your cooler could take a beating. In terms of the graphics I felt the 5000 series was the best value since the other cards weren't really doing much more in terms of scores. Plus you may want to check this link out as well for the firepro you can save a little money there :) 
http://www.fireprographics.com/experience/us/index.asp

I found this benchmark for 2013 maya
http://www.pugetsystems.com/labs/articles/AutoDesk-Maya...

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant / Benchmarks

CPU: Intel Core i7-3930K 3.2GHz 6-Core Processor ($499.99 @ Microcenter)
CPU Cooler: Noctua NH-D14 SE2011 CPU Cooler ($77.50 @ Amazon)
Motherboard: ASRock X79 Extreme3 ATX LGA2011 Motherboard ($197.86 @ Newegg)
Memory: Corsair Vengeance LP 32GB (4 x 8GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($239.99 @ Amazon)
Storage: Kingston HyperX 3K 120GB 2.5" Solid State Disk ($109.00 @ Adorama)
Storage: Seagate Barracuda 2TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($94.99 @ Amazon)
Case: Fractal Design Arc Midi R2 (Black) ATX Mid Tower Case ($64.99 @ NCIX US)
Power Supply: XFX 650W 80 PLUS Bronze Certified ATX12V / EPS12V Power Supply ($85.98 @ Outlet PC)
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 7 Professional SP1 (OEM) (64-bit) ($129.98 @ Outlet PC)
Other: AMD 100 - 505635 FirePro W5000 2GB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 3.0 x16 CrossFire Supported Workstation Video Card ($439.99)
Total: $1940.27
(Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available.)
(Generated by PCPartPicker 2013-05-28 18:25 EDT-0400)

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May 28, 2013 3:37:39 PM

Wow, thanks for the reply that looks perfect. I have applied for the discounted code, thanks for that :) 
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May 28, 2013 3:48:12 PM

Of course :)  That is one heck of a promo they have going on.
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May 28, 2013 4:14:29 PM

That's a very nice build. I was going to argue a point or two but given the budget it seems that I can't do better.
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May 28, 2013 4:27:14 PM

Well depending on how much he saves he can always move up to a 128 GB Samsung 840 pro.
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May 28, 2013 4:57:03 PM

I think if I save some decent money I might go for a better monitor
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May 28, 2013 5:46:13 PM

@k1114
Tomshardware doesn't have a strict maya benchmark that I can see.

@Sam
That isn't a bad way to go how big is your current monitor and how big are you looking.
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May 28, 2013 6:10:51 PM

They used specapc like puget.
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May 28, 2013 6:21:42 PM

Show me a tomshardware 2013 maya benchmark.
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May 28, 2013 6:31:35 PM

@bigshooter8 I have a pretty low end 17" monitor. I would like something larger given the amount of time I spend on the computer lately.
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May 28, 2013 6:37:11 PM

I gotcha well I have a couple of suggestions that may strike your interest as a note I'm not one to go for cheap 100 dollar monitors for the sake of having a larger screen. And since this is for art/production work it will reflect my suggestions. I would recommend ASUS monitors right now because of the great monitors they have in general and because of there ARR service where if something goes wrong your warranty will give you this service where you RMA your device they pay for it and as you do that they send you a new monitor.
ASUS PB238Q This is what I currently have its a IPS panel and the little brother to the 1440p PB278Q
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
To my knowledge the only real difference between this and the next monitor I'll show you is that the monitor is calibrated.
ASUS ProArt 24 inch
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...


ASUS PB278Q
If you were going to go all out on a monitor I'd give this bad boy a shot.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
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May 28, 2013 7:07:15 PM

The first one you linked looks fantastic thanks again!
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May 28, 2013 8:57:25 PM

Yea not a problem. I have that one its great very large widescreen when you get it you wonder what it may look like if you had more than one next to each other :p 
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May 28, 2013 10:18:36 PM

Maya 2013 benchmarks were in the link I posted. Don't worry about it though, with the discount amd is doing, it's the better value.
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May 29, 2013 1:38:12 AM

Okay yea I just really care to much for how toms sets up their benchmarks its very cryptic labeling wise.
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May 30, 2013 9:09:09 AM

Sam Newell,

After 20 years using CAD- 2D and 3D (AutoCad, Revit, Solidworks, Sketchup, Adobe CS) and some of the more intensive graphics applications and some forays into rendering, I've been unable to escape two conclusions 1> that in consideration of a new computer, work first towards a capability / reliability instead of price and that 2> "capability / reliability" in these kinds of applications inevitably means computational precision and application stability> Xeon / ECC RAM / Quadro (or Firepro).

Up to a certain level, consumer / gaming components are very attractive- fast and cheaper, but at some magic break line of complexity and file size, it all falls apart, and the work environment will be frustrating (quirky or inoperable viewports) image quality will not be satisfying (aliasing, poor color correction, artifacts, bizzare shadows, inability to use multi-source lighting) and there will be strange crashes (especially in rendering).

Accordingly, follows is a list of components for the kind of system that is optimized for the kind of application you're using and which would work at a high level in general for 3D modeling and high precision 2D graphics, and video processing and editing. Six core Xeon for rendering / processing, ECC RAM for precision , Quadro for anti-aliasing (up to 128X), color depth, CUDA acceleration and so on.

CAD / Imaging / Video Editing Workstation

1. Xeon E5-1650 6-core 3.2 /3.8GHz $600

2. ASRock X79 Extreme3 LGA 2011 Intel X79 SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard $190

3. Kingston16GB (2X 8GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 ECC Unbuffered Server Memory w/TS Intel Model KVR16E11/8I $150.

4. NVIDIA Quadro K2000 VCQK2000-PB 2GB GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 Workstation Video Card $430

5. SAMSUNG 840 Series MZ-7TD120BW 2.5" 120GB SATA III Internal Solid State Drive (SSD) $100

6. WESTERN DIGITAL 1TB HARD DRIVE SATA 64MB 6 Gb/s WD AV-GP $85

7. LIAN LI PC-A75 Black Aluminum ATX Full Tower Computer Case $182

8. SeaSonic X750 Gold 750W ATX12V V2.3/EPS 12V V2.91 SLI Ready 80 PLUS GOLD Certified Full Modular Active PFC Power Supply $150

9. Microsoft Windows 7 Ultimate SP1 64-bit - OEM $190

10. Noctua NH-D14 120mm & 140mm SSO CPU Cooler $84.

11. ASUS Black Blu-ray Burner SATA BW-12B1ST/BLK/G/AS $85


TOTAL > about $2,250

This is of course more than 10% over your budget an to that I have another option that would provide similar capabilities and accuracy at a $500+ saving- about enough to buy a good monitor- slightly lower speed and that is to buy a used Dell Precision T7500 with a lower end Xeon and 8GB or so ECC RAM for about $3-500 >

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dell-Precision-T7500-Quad-Core-...

and then change the CPU for a Xeon X5680 (6 cores @ 3.2/3.8) for about $600, a used Quadro 4000 or FX 5800 (old-fashioned but 4GB and made for video editing) for $350, a new Samsung 840 120GB for OS / applications $100 and WD 2TB for file storage $110), another 8GB RAM for about $75, windows 7 OEM $130. TOTAL > about $1,600 -$1,750. In some cases I see T7500 with the X5680 in the $1400 range, but usually with low end graphics cards and no OS, but with patience, buying one with closer to final specification can be less expensive.

This direction might save $500-700 from the new system, but also saves considerable effort in shopping, checking compatibility, buying, shipping, assembling, configuring, and troubleshooting the system. With the right choice, it could be used right away with a slower, 4-core processor and mid range graphics card, perhaps only needing a new OS or adding RAM. Getting to work much sooner, then such a system improved in stages over a month or more while i.e. earning it's keep. This is also good scheme esp. if you're not earning from this computer but learning by keeping the cost low until having to be highly productive and presenting the highest quality.

Of course, the disadvantage is the obsolete hardware running at a lower performance and somewhat limited future , but on the other hand, you could eventually add a second X5680 (requires a riser card), change to a Quadro K5000 (4GB) or Quadro 6000 (6GB) when they become less expensive (both now about $1300 used), and a Precision T7500 can use up to 192GB RAM and run 5 drives in RAID. I ran a Dell Dimension 8400 with a single core P4 from 2004 to 2010 and then bought a Dell Precision T5400 > Xeon X5460 @3.16GHz, 4GB RAM, Quadro FX 580 (512 MB), 500GB drive > Vista Business 64 bit for about $450 and gradually upgraded it to > 2X Xeon X5460 @ 3.16GHz, 16GB ECC, Quadro FX4800, WD RE4 / Segt Brcda 500GB > Windows 7 Ultimate for a total cost about $1,000. In the current form I believe I can use it another 3-4 years at which time it will still have a reasonable value. Very low cost per year and not all at once,..

A complicated equation!

Cheers,

BambiBoom
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May 30, 2013 10:09:08 AM

CPU: The 3930k is not a 4 core processor its a 6 core processor with hyperthreading. Also its not a gaming chip its a professional editors chip. It will provide more than enough power for what he is wanting to do. Gamers purchase z77 and soon z87 chips.
SSD: You DO NOT want a 840 that isn't the pro the TLC flash will not be good for constant writing and is a bit slower. So spend the extra get the pro because you will have a stronger NAND in the PRO MLC and.
PSU: You do not need to spend that amount of money on a power supply with his build a 650W power supply is the comfortable level for his build because he isn't gaming he's editing and doing professional work spending 150 dollars on a Power supply isn't necessary and you could probably get a cheaper unit if you were going for a 80 plus gold power supply which you don't necessarily need to begin with.
OS: You do not need Windows Ultimate normally unless you plan on taking advantage of the encryption tool that they have.
Optical Drive: It doesn't make sense to go with a Blu-Ray drive here. Unless he is going to be able to afford the playback software it is a waste because of how expensive it is and because you need to purchase playback software to even play Blu-Rays and the Blu-Ray-R's aren't cheap either. He would be better off either writing to external drives or to DVD's.
GPU: Given the current deal with fire time buyers of firepro cards it just makes all the sense in the world for him to pick up a firepro card at this point its just a stronger value.
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May 30, 2013 3:24:02 PM

BigShooter,

Of course, an i7-3930K is an excellent, 6-core CPU, and in my view is likely the very close cousin of the Xeon E5-1650 (same no. of cores, cache, and clock speed) and will, up to a certain point work for content creation applications. the i7 though is gaming rather than professionally oriented , the "K" at the end of i7-3930K is the designation for a gaming oriented ability for overclocking (never done in workstations), and high frame rate single precision emphasis means an i7 will only be useful up to a certain standard of content creation use. For our friend Sam Newell's applications, in a professional context, a Xeon has substantial advantages in that single (32 bit) and double (64 bit) precision are supported in the hardware; in Maya and Adobe CS, quadruple (128 bit) precision is software supported, and extended precision (80 bit) is supported through the x87 instruction set. As well, unlike consumer / gaming CPU's, denormalized numbers and gradual underflow are supported, but abrupt underflow is the default at all optimization levels (except O0). In content creation rather than content consumption, polygonal, geometric generation and positional calculation accuracy, which leads to high quality anti-aliasing, accurate shadoes, particle, and fluid simulation as well as color depth, rendering stability (shadows) precision is more important than frame rates. It is also essential to have capabilities for mutli-source lighting. The Xeon double and software quadruple precision working combination with ECC error correcting RAM are factors particularly important in Maya and video processing. Cache and memory bandwidth are important as well. Further, the price of the i7-3930K and the Xeon E5-1650 is only about $30 apart and since the gaming overclocking feature of the the i7 would not used, and the Xeon in combination with ECC ram has so many direct advantages in the kinds of computation power utilized in these kind of workstation tasks, I see no rational argument not to use the Xeon.

As for the GPU, one can argue for Firepros or Quadros. I've used both and in every way had better advantage with Quadros. I chose the Qudro FX 4800 that I use now as it was especially designed to run Solidworks 2010 and Adobe CS 4 , bith of which I use, as well as AutoCad and Revit 2011 for there are specialized "partnered" drivers. Those usinge Autodesk, Dessault, and CS applications will know the special affinity between those applications and Xeon /ECC /Quadro hardware. I for one, am not fond of being held in effect hostage to Quadros as near monopolies always mean higher costs (the FX 4800 (1.5GB) new was $1,200), but Quadros really work and seem to run forever. One might ask why Firepros are special offered / discounted while Quadros never are- and I think it's their near monopoly in professional imaging-base offices. I've been around to a lot of professional offices in the last 35 years- architectural, engineering, industrial design, rendering, interior design, production design, and video editing and have never seen a Firepro.

The differences in Samsung 840 and 840 Pro is related to absolute speed and TLC Nand due to the number of voltage state combinations has been said to have less endurance, but in practical use -as opposed to pure benchmark performance, the 840 and 840 PRO will not be experientially different and a lot of the idea that TLC has lower endurance is anecdotal and related to early versions of firmware rather than the architecture. Still, I'd be all for using the 840 Pro for whatever advantages the newer technology might offer- so yes, by all means, let's spend more of someone else's money. The jury is out but I've read that it's possible that the voltage states can mean a kind of bit compression that could lead to errors.

The reason to consider a Blu-ray drive is that the use of this system involves video editing and processing, 3D modeling / animation and quite probably would involve the production of Blu-ray disks. Blu-ray's maximum resolution is 1,920x1,080 (1080p), while DVD is limited to 720x480 (480p) and one can bet that anything done in Maya will be done to Blu-ray resolution, which can be dithered back to DVD resolution later. Also, these applications produce huge file sizes, animations will have separate working sound files, and as you can not work in compressed formats and so for archiving, it seemed to make sense to have one. I'm getting one simply because I would like to have a full system recovery back-up on disk- OS , applications, files, and that is about 220GB- 9 Blu-ray or 50 DVD's.

As for power supplies, a smaller supply may well work in static, terms, but the dynamic lead response and current headroom should be considered as well the future addition of multiple periperals- external drives, double GPU, GPU co-processing, usb powered mixers and sound interfaces, and so on. I would want the best quality filtering too and in fact for this kind of use, I would recommend it be plugged into an external isolation transformer power conditioner like a Powervar or OneAC with RF filtering cyclical normalization, and dynamic headroom, and surge/undervolt protection. Of course many offices use UPS to protect against outages as well.

Good discussion- thanks!

Cheers,

BambiBoom




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May 30, 2013 3:39:55 PM

SSD's: The reason why the Pro is stronger is because of the writing speed but not only that but the amount of write cycles that can be made to the drive are larger. When you are spending that kind of money spending that extra 20 or so dollars here and there really helps.

TLC: Write Cycles 1,000
MLC Write Cycles 3,000
http://www.anandtech.com/show/6459/samsung-ssd-840-test...

CPU's: Just because a Chip is overclockable does not instantly make it a gamers chip. And 499 for a 3930k versus your Xeon for 600 is more then 20-30 dollars more. Which in the grand scale of things matters. Also has hyper-threading as well with the 3930k.

Graphics: While I do agree that with Adobe products typically Nvidia does quite a good job based on that benchmark it seem that firepro's were doing quite well. And given the deal you can get with them it just made all the sense in the world. If I can save 100-200 dollars on a card over the competitor and get the job done in a similar amount of time why pay the extra premium for the product.

Power Supplies: Getting closer to the amount he will actually use is actually better because your power supply will run more efficiently at certain usage points if you have a larger power supply and are only using 20% of it you won't be taking advantage of the 80 plus certified items.

Blu-Ray or not: If he is reproducing things to blu-ray standard to be played on blu-rays absolutely I think its a worth while thing. However if he is not its not worth it. He can either use external drives write to them and showcase the material or place the material on a DVD as data and move it. Either way it doesn't always make the most sense
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May 30, 2013 4:52:07 PM

The primary reason to use the Xeon in this case would be for ECC memory. I can see this for a professional system in constant use, but not for a home machine where someone is just learning.

Historically Nvidia has been the choice for workstation graphics, because of drivers. Then CUDA became another reason.

I've heard many positive reports about recent AMD Firepro drivers, and OpenCL is becoming more popular as a computing tool.

I'm not drawing a conclusion from the above, just demonstrating what the actual discussion points would be.

I still think, given the budget constraints, the first listed build is better.

I do differ with both of you on one point. I don't like heavy air coolers. They put too much stress on CPU sockets and motherboards, partly due to material quality decline.

I would rather see a Corsair H80i for about the same price
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
It's a bit louder than the Noctua cooler at high settings, but if overclocking and heat aren't big concerns it will cool just fine on quiet settings.

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May 30, 2013 5:31:06 PM

Quote:
The primary reason to use the Xeon in this case would be for ECC memory. I can see this for a professional system in constant use, but not for a home machine where someone is just learning.

Historically Nvidia has been the choice for workstation graphics, because of drivers. Then CUDA became another reason.

I've heard many positive reports about recent AMD Firepro drivers, and OpenCL is becoming more popular as a computing tool.

I'm not drawing a conclusion from the above, just demonstrating what the actual discussion points would be.

I still think, given the budget constraints, the first listed build is better.

I do differ with both of you on one point. I don't like heavy air coolers. They put too much stress on CPU sockets and motherboards, partly due to material quality decline.

I would rather see a Corsair H80i for about the same price
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
It's a bit louder than the Noctua cooler at high settings, but if overclocking and heat aren't big concerns it will cool just fine on quiet settings.



The 80i is okay I would just go out and pick up SP120's Quiet editions for it because I've heard the fans that come with that unit are kind of an annoyance. I can see what you are saying though with the cooler situation. Personally I use a h100i. I just don't like the pump noise from the coolers. But you are absolutely right with it less of a footprint within your case easier to install.
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