Raid 0 vs 1 Large SSD

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GMPoisoN

GMPoisoN

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Mar 13, 2013
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I've never used two hard drives before, but if I get the two 128 gb samsungs, I will have 3 hard drives (500 gb caviar black). Is there ever any issues when it comes to downloading or updating or organizing having 3 different drives, with different things downloaded everywhere? I'm a good organizer, so I know I could keep everything jn check.
 
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USAFRet

USAFRet

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No problems at all. I have 5 in my current main machine.
 
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RetiredChief

RetiredChief

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Prior to SSDs I used Raid0 for HDD (OS + Programs + Data) in ALL my builds - even predates SATA - LOLs). For SSDs, I find NO need for raid0 when the drive is used as a OS + program drive. Yes, Raid0 is still is advatagous when the SSDs are used as a Storage drive that has a high percentage of LARGE data structures and you do a lot of photo editing, Photos can be rather large jpeg/bitmap files. And if you spend a lot of time working with video files as A single DVD dot VOB is typically 1 gig and a single Blu-ray file can be anywheres from 13 Gigs to 40 gigs for a siingle file.

Madn3ss795's link to Tom's evaluation, the results are really common sense.
Sequencial, large file performance - Big Boost.
Raid0 provides a big performance boost to read/writting large Data files that are Sequencial. IE a 10 Meg Photo file is broken up into 2500 chuncks (clusters) That are laid one chunk place next to the 2nd chunk ect. Also since these files then broken up into 64K, or 128K, (Stripe size) chunks and alternately placed on the two drives theoretically Sequenquial performance can be doubled. These can be read much faster than if you were reading 2,500 files each 4K spread all over the drive (Randomly).

Random 4 K performance - Almost NO performance boost.
Small file access is more a function of Access time, which is NOT decreased when drives are placed in raid. Since they are less than the strip size The file is on a SINGLE drive so NO performance boost from being able to read/write two drives at the same time.

Bottom Line is that for a OS + program over halve of the files are less than 64 K (a high percentage are under 16K) - Means that Sequencial performance is least significant, 4 K random most important and Since most files are containted on only one drive - NOT spread accross two drives, Raid0 makes LITTLE sense - More disavantages than advantages.

Another factor when an SSD is a member drive of a Raid0 setup is that TRIM is ONLY supported by IB systems using Intel's series 7 Chipsets and the Latest Intel RST driver 11.x.

Have two desktops and a Laptop with daul SSDs. NO Raid0 as I prefer one SSD as a OS + Program drive and the 2nd SSD as a "working" drive with my most used data files.

 
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GMPoisoN

GMPoisoN

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Thanks for taking the time to explain that in depth to me, I think I'll go with the two drives and use one for OS and one for programs, plus I save a good amount of money with this deal going on right now.
 
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manofchalk

manofchalk

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May 11, 2012
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Wouldnt bother putting the SSD's in RAID 0. An SSD's main advantage over a HDD is its near non-existent Access Times, which doesnt improve in a RAID situation. As said by the Toms article, it will look good on paper but in real performance it wont bring you much and only increases the potential to lose your data.

If I had two 128GB SSD's, I would use one for the bog standard boot/program drive, and dedicate 30GB of the other as a cache for the HDD and leave the rest for leftover programs/games.
 
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GMPoisoN

GMPoisoN

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Thanks for that tip! I'm pretty illiterate when it comes to Hard Drives, so how would one dedicate 30 GB to cashe on an SSD from an HDD, and what does it mean to do so?
 
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RetiredChief

RetiredChief

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OS + Program SSD, Based on a 128 gig SSD.
1) Formated size is approx 121 gigs (diff is in way manuf counts "bits" power of 10's and computer which uses power of 2's)
2) It is recommended that a Minimium of 20 % of the SSD is left free (Unused), Use to be 10%. This is to allow Wear Leaveling, Garbage Collector, and TRIM can work their magic and keep the performance of the SSD near manuf spec. NOTE there have been many posts on "My SSD is performing SLOWWWW, not much faster than a HDD. Reason A) they installed the OS using IDE (Did NOT change the BIOS to AHCI), and (B) they OVER filled the SSD ie only left 5 % free.
This brings the "128 Gig" SSD usable space down to 128 - 7 - 24 = approx 97 GIGs.
3) On all my Systems, after tweaks, the OS plus Programs take approx 35 GIGs. That still leaves approx 60 Gigs for Games (NOT a Gamer).

A) Don't forget when installing OS - DISCONNECT all other HDDs.
B) Check, and change if needed, the HDD control is set to AHCI
C) Tweaks That I use (Space savings based on a 8 Gig Ram system).
.. Disable Hibernation - Saves approx 6->8 Gigs space.
.. Mange the Page File (Virtual Memory). Windows typically allocates 1.5 x Ram for this file, and increases/decreases on the Fly. Set Min and Max to same value, I use 1024 mbs for an 8 gig Memory. Saves approx 11 Gigs.
.. Take control of space that is allowed for restore points. each restore point takes 300 mbs so just 20 Restore points = 6 Gigs. Limit size of folder to 1.6 Gigs that will allow you to save upto the last 6 restore points. Personally, I just disable restore points and use Windows system back-up as my fall back.

For above, just google the topic to find out HOW to do. ie goolge "Disable Hiberanation" yields, xxxxx, then select Microsoft solution:
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/920730
3)
 
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manofchalk

manofchalk

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The librarian example is a good way of explaining caching.
Your at a library, and you want a book. You ask the librarian at the front desk and they happen to have the book you want in their hand. That is the equivalent of RAM, data that can be accessed instantaneously. If they don't have the book on them, they have to go off into the library and search for it, this is your HDD. This takes time, and its a fair while before they get back with the book you want.

A way to speed this up is to have a table between the front desk and the Library that has the most commonly requested books from the library on it, meaning its right there and quick to grab. This is the SSD cache, it stores all your most commonly accessed files on the HDD, meaning that when you call upon those files they can be brought up much quicker, improving performance.

If your using an Intel Z68 or later motherboard, it supports Intel Smart Response Technology, which is just SSD caching capability built straight into the board. Download the utility, make sure your RST (Rapid Storage Technology) drivers are up to date and the Cache and HDD are connected to Intel chipset SATA ports. Run the utility, set it all up and your good.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U83ED4FOWiw
If your an AMD user or have a older Intel rig, there is software solutions that are available.
 
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GMPoisoN

GMPoisoN

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Well, turns out the Samsung 840 is on sale, not the 840 Pro. Does anyone here think I will see a difference between two 128 GB 840 Pros and two 840s? All I do is game, and very light video editing for YouTube. $179 vs $249 is a $71 difference, just for downgrading from an 840 Pro to an 840.
 
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manofchalk

manofchalk

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Far as I know, the only real difference between the two is Write speeds and potential lifespan. The 840 has much lower write speeds than the Pro, and because its using TLC rather than MLC flash it has less write/re-write cycles before the flash starts to degrade.

So if your using the drive in an application thats write heavy (Scratch Disk, recording gameplay, render output) then its probably worth getting the Pro. If your just after the normal OS and Program drive usage then it shouldnt really matter.
The lifespan IMO isnt really a concern. Modern SSD's have so many redundancies built in (there a reason why its a 120GB drive and not 128GB, 8GB of "leftover" capacity if any fails) and software functions like TRIM to keep it running optimally that by the time it wears down under normal usage its going to be long obsolete anyway.
 
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GMPoisoN

GMPoisoN

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Mar 13, 2013
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Thanks, Im really only going to be using it for OS, a few programs, and some games, I'n using my 500 gb HDD to record to an external hard drive, so I don't have to worry about that. I think I'll stick with the 840s, $70 is a lot for something that won't even effect game play.
 
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geofelt

geofelt

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I suggest you just get a 240gb drive and be done with it.
1. I have used two ssd's in raid-0 and found that a single larger ssd actually felt quicker in normal work. Depending on your motherboard, raid-0 might invalidate "trim" support.
2. A single large ssd will be easier to manage space on.
3. As to pro vs. non pro Samsung 840, performance will be the same to you. The only difference is that the pro has better endurance. That means that it might last 15 years, vs. 10 years. Either will be long obsolete by then.
 
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GMPoisoN

GMPoisoN

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Another good idea. Im just thinking of getting the two drives because I can save $70 ish getting two drives rather than one, and I honestly do t mind managing the space, since Im currenty becoming A+ certified, I enjoy messi h with this kind if stuff, thanks for your suggestion.
 
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