Idea for a long-term evolution system

redlight · May 31, 2013

Being a college student, I don't have tons of money available for a full-fledged PC system. Because of this, I want to set myself up with a mild system that I will be able to upgrade as I accumulate more money over the years. By this, I mean spend less than $1000 on parts for a full desktop that I can upgrade later on. I've never built my own PC before, so do you guys think this is do-able or worth doing? I plan on using the desktop mostly for gaming.

DSzymborski · May 31, 2013

You can always upgrade a system - it's easy after you build it yourself. The issue is if you don't maintain it and let it go for 6-7 years without upgrading a part and fall too far behind to make upgrading a good idea instead of a new build.

Is your budget $1000 or something less? Do you have a monitor? An operating system? What peripherals do you have or need? It's hard to really give the best answer we can without knowing these things.

redlight · May 31, 2013

DSzymborski :

$1000 is the maximum but I'm really shooting for something less, like $800. I have a 22'' Samsung monitor (1080p). I have an OS available to install on it (Windows 8). I have most peripherals that I'll need, including a mouse, keyboard, headphones, and speakers. Given this information, I feel I really just need the desktop itself, I already own the extras. I definitely plan on upgrading it every few years to keep the hardware updated.

DSzymborski · Jun 1, 2013

redlight :

I'm going to assume $800, then with a tiny bit more leeway on that figure (I try to stay within 2-3%). With the exception of the crazy guys that want to build PCs with quad Titans, we'll spend all the budget you give!

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant / Benchmarks

CPU: AMD FX-8350 4.0GHz 8-Core Processor ($179.99 @ Amazon)
CPU Cooler: Xigmatek GAIA SD1283 56.3 CFM CPU Cooler ($19.99 @ Newegg)
Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-970A-DS3 ATX AM3+ Motherboard ($69.98 @ Newegg)
Memory: Crucial Ballistix Sport 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($56.98 @ Newegg)
Storage: Western Digital Caviar Blue 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($58.99 @ NCIX US)
Video Card: Sapphire Radeon HD 7950 3GB Video Card ($268.98 @ Newegg)
Case: Cooler Master Storm Scout 2 (Black) ATX Mid Tower Case ($75.96 @ Amazon)
Power Supply: XFX 550W 80 PLUS Bronze Certified ATX12V / EPS12V Power Supply ($54.99 @ NCIX US)
Optical Drive: Lite-On iHAS124-04 DVD/CD Writer ($14.98 @ Outlet PC)
Total: $833.84
(Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available.)
(Generated by PCPartPicker 2013-06-01 00:02 EDT-0400)

manofchalk · Jun 1, 2013

When I started on my rig I had a similar intention to what you do currently, one thing I'v learnt is spend big on the case. Its the only component in the machine that wont go out of date or obsolete, get a good one and you can use the case as many builds as you want.
Spending big here also means far more future upgrade paths. When I first built my rig the notion of water-cooling was ridiculous to me, a H100 was far too expensive. However three months after I built the rig, I got interested in water-cooling and now I have a full-blown CPU + GPU custom water loop. If I hadn't have bought an overkill case (Coolermaster HAF-X) this upgrade would have cost far more as I would have had to purchase a new case that could support all the hardware.

Figure out what could be a future possibility for the rig, and make sure that your current setup allows an easy way to achieve it.

redlight · Jun 2, 2013

DSzymborski :

This build seems to be very good! After re-evaluating my budget, I've decided to try to reduce the cost a bit more myself as well as make changes based on features I forgot to mention. I've changed the motherboard because I'm looking for one that has Coaxial audio out. I also want to have an HDD/SSD combo, so I added an SSD. Since I'm currently gaming on an HP laptop that usually gets to 95-105 degrees Celsius, the reduced heat of my CPU/GPU in a desktop is definitely something I'm looking for more than a top-of-the-line GPU. Because of this and to save money, I downgraded the GPU to a Radeon HD 7770 GHz Edition, which according to a few comparison sites, should still vastly outperform my current GT 650M. After reading the other comment in this discussion, I decided to go with my dream case, which costs more but I feel it will last over all of my upgrades. I lowered the PSU to something cheaper, which I hope isn't iffy. Since this is my first build, the base you provided was beneficial for a starting point. If you don't mind looking over my customizations, that would be very helpful.

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant / Benchmarks

CPU: AMD FX-8350 4.0GHz 8-Core Processor ($179.99 @ Amazon)
CPU Cooler: Xigmatek GAIA SD1283 56.3 CFM CPU Cooler ($19.99 @ Newegg)
Motherboard: MSI 970A-G43 ATX AM3+ Motherboard ($59.99 @ Newegg)
Memory: Crucial Ballistix Sport 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($62.13 @ TigerDirect)
Storage: Kingston SSDNow V300 Series 120GB 2.5" Solid State Disk ($84.99 @ Microcenter)
Storage: Western Digital Caviar Blue 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($58.99 @ NCIX US)
Video Card: MSI Radeon HD 7770 GHz Edition 1GB Video Card ($79.99 @ Newegg)
Case: NZXT Phantom 410 (Black) ATX Mid Tower Case ($84.50 @ Amazon)
Power Supply: Rosewill Stallion 450W ATX Power Supply ($31.99 @ Amazon)
Optical Drive: Lite-On iHAS124-04 DVD/CD Writer ($14.98 @ Outlet PC)
Total: $677.54
(Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available.)
(Generated by PCPartPicker 2013-06-02 01:53 EDT-0400)

DSzymborski · Jun 2, 2013

Do keep in mind that 7950 to 7770 is a significant downgrade if you're interested in gaming. The 7950 is on the mid-end/high-end border and the 7770 is a budget card.

I would stay away from the power supply. That's one of the older, low-end Rosewills before they got their crap together and started getting supplies made by Super Flower (Capstone, Lightning, Tachyon series). The Sirtec ones are OK (Hive, Bronze, Hercules), but I would not go that low.

Nothing wrong with the case you picked. The Storm Scout I recommended because there was a very good deal at the time. The Phantom 410 is one of the standard case recommendations, so nothing to quibble with there.
I would reconsider the PSU issue. The one I recommended is a SeaSonic, which is very, very dependable, and that's an excellent price right now. If you want a long-term evolution system, you want a power supply that will take care of your components long-term.

Lastly, on the GPU issue, for a rig in which you've said you wish to do gaming, a SSD instead of a better GPU is a mistake on a sub-$700 system. If you're not gaming, sure, but you're giving away lots of performance for what is a convenience issue. I will generally recommend a SSD on $1000+ builds that have enough flexibility to make reasonable compromises elsewhere, but on a budget-plus gaming rig, it's not my cup of tea.

manofchalk · Jun 2, 2013

Oh do not get that Stallion unit, thats the definition of a PSU not to buy. Go for this unit.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139027&Tpk=CX500&IsVirtualParent=1

Reduce the CPU to an FX-6300, its enough for gaming and frees up ~$100 to spend on the GPU, which is what really matter on a gaming rig.

DSzymborski · Jun 2, 2013

manofchalk :

I'd avoid the non-modular budget Corsairs - it's not one of their Seasonics. In this case, it's a Channel Well that uses Samxon capacitors which aren't at the same quality level as Japanese capacitors. The modular CXs are Channel Well, but appear to be using Japanese capacitors.

It's not a *bad* PSU by any stretch of the imagination -- we're not talking Logisys or Diablotek here -- but the SeaSonic build in the XFX is rock-solid and it's an excellent price.

I agree, given the choice, I'd rather have the 6300 and a beefier GPU than the 8350 and a weaker one. And he'll have the same possibility of upgrading to Steamroller, though that's no guarantee.

manofchalk · Jun 2, 2013

The reason I suggest the CX500 is that after rebates and promo codes you have a decent 500W PSU for $30. The XFX 550W is definitely a better unit, no doubt about that.

Far as I know AMD will be sticking with AM3+ until 2015, only moving to AM4 when DDR4 memory starts becoming mainstream. Knowing AMD chances are you could get an AM4 chip working in an AM3+ board anyway :lol:.

DSzymborski · Jun 2, 2013

manofchalk :

True, it is a good price. In fact, I've recommended it before. Hoping to convince him to spend a little more since upgrading this system is very important to him.

I full expect Steamroller to work just fine, too, and AMD's history of unofficial support that works out is pretty good. I just hate to give someone a guarantee on a future chip! That AMD roadmap keeps extending farther.

redlight · Jun 2, 2013

Thanks for the feedback! I've further revised the build and decided to downgrade the CPU to an FX-6300. Due to the drop in price, I switched the PSU to the XFX 550W, which should be more reliable. I agree with your argument about the SSD and removed that. The savings due to the changes allowed me to upgrade the GPU to an HD 7850 2 GB, which I still think is a very good card. It's no 7950, but due to the budget I think it will be an excellent upgrade. If you still think this isn't a wise decision, let me know. Obviously the main purpose of this build is for gaming, and that mostly depends on the GPU. I think the HD 7850 is a good starting place, and when I upgrade the GPU I will be going for one of the latest, such as the 7970 GHz. Anyway, here is the build:

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant / Benchmarks

CPU: AMD FX-6300 3.5GHz 6-Core Processor ($119.99 @ Microcenter)
CPU Cooler: Xigmatek GAIA SD1283 56.3 CFM CPU Cooler ($19.99 @ Newegg)
Motherboard: MSI 970A-G43 ATX AM3+ Motherboard ($59.99 @ Newegg)
Memory: Crucial Ballistix Sport 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($62.13 @ TigerDirect)
Storage: Western Digital Caviar Blue 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($58.99 @ NCIX US)
Video Card: Sapphire Radeon HD 7850 2GB Video Card ($184.99 @ Newegg)
Case: NZXT Phantom 410 (Black) ATX Mid Tower Case ($84.50 @ Amazon)
Power Supply: XFX 550W 80 PLUS Bronze Certified ATX12V / EPS12V Power Supply ($54.99 @ NCIX US)
Optical Drive: Lite-On iHAS124-04 DVD/CD Writer ($14.98 @ Outlet PC)
Total: $660.55
(Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available.)
(Generated by PCPartPicker 2013-06-02 10:46 EDT-0400)

On a side note, is the HD 7990 a dual-GPU? I was looking at the list and it more than doubles the price of the 7970.

DSzymborski · Jun 2, 2013

redlight :

For the budget you want to go with, this is looking really solid. I'm very happy to see that you did put a bit of money back in to grab the better PSU - now if you replace your 7850 with a 780 or, down the road, a 9970 or something or want to OC to get more juice out of your setup, you're good to go. Plenty of room to add a second, bigger hard drive and an SSD when the need arises, and the likelihood that after a future BIOS update, you'll be able to swap in a Steamroller for your 6300.

redlight · Jun 2, 2013

DSzymborski :

redlight :

For the budget you want to go with, this is looking really solid. I'm very happy to see that you did put a bit of money back in to grab the better PSU - now if you replace your 7850 with a 780 or, down the road, a 9970 or something or want to OC to get more juice out of your setup, you're good to go. Plenty of room to add a second, bigger hard drive and an SSD when the need arises, and the likelihood that after a future BIOS update, you'll be able to swap in a Steamroller for your 6300.

Awesome, thanks for both of your guys' help! I'm excited for my first build so hopefully everything goes well.

DSzymborski · Jun 2, 2013

redlight :

DSzymborski :

Awesome, thanks for both of your guys' help! I'm excited for my first build so hopefully everything goes well.

A couple things to remember as a first-time builder.

- Breadboard your build so you can see if there are problems before you have everything in the case. There are youtube videos on the subject.

- Dead on arrival parts are not uncommon. If you run into problems, systematically test things one at a time and for tricky problems, you may end up RMAing a couple of things before you get the problem tracked down. It happens. Though not as often as you may think from reading forums -- people don't generally bother to post topics like "MY BUILD WENT WITHOUT ANY ISSUES!"

- Don't close up the case until you've turned on the completed build and have started getting things going. Old PC builder superstition!

manofchalk · Jun 3, 2013

That rig looks good to me, your good to go.
Heres a pretty good build guide.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=84NvDMMrCNU

And yes the HD7990 is a dual GPU card, as is the GTX690.

redlight · Jun 3, 2013

manofchalk :

Thanks for the video! I favorited it so I can follow it once the parts come in. On a final note...since I've never had a powerful gaming desktop before, one thing I'm wary about is heat. Like I said earlier, my laptop's CPU is usually 90-100 degrees C when running games, and the GPU is about 80. Of course that's not exactly the range I want to be in, so do you think the extra air flow, fans, CPU heatsink, and GPU fan will keep it relatively cool?

manofchalk · Jun 3, 2013

You'v got an aftermarket tower heatsink on the CPU, and the GPU has a decent cooling setup on it. The case can supply adequate airflow for the components, in terms of temperatures you should be fine.

Main reason laptops run hot despite having a far less power draw than a desktop is that due to size constraints you cant fit massive heatsinks into them, with a desktop you have plenty of space to work with. You should be seeing better temperature than your laptop, 20°C at least.

redlight · Jun 3, 2013

manofchalk :

Okay that's good to hear. Would you recommend upgrading to a liquid cooling system later down the road when I pick up a more powerful CPU and graphics card?

Idea for a long-term evolution system

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