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Should I buy Ivy Bridge or Haswell, assuming haswell, which z87 motherboard has best price/perfomance?

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June 7, 2013 7:11:38 AM

So basically I'm putting together my first build, I have practically every part except the cpu and the mobo, and I'm effectively wondering whether the price increase is worth it for Haswell. I know from what I've read that OC-wise, Haswell runs hotter, but in theory I could get a lucky chip no? Just as i could get a dog chip from IB. I'd be planning on either the 4670k or the 3570k.

Also, in relation to motherboard choices, I'm told that the z77 extreme 4 is a good choice for IB so I'd probably go with that, but if I went Haswell, things become much more complicated, I was thinking perhaps the Asus z87-A or the MSI G45, but again I'm unsure, but there seems to be a lot advantages to getting the newer chipsets.

Currently I could get the whole Haswell shebang for about 300 pounds and the IB one for about 270, so not a huge difference.

In case it matters,(also I like telling the world :p ) my build:

Case: NZXT Phantom

RAM: Kingston Hyper X 8gb 1600 CL9

PSU: HX750w

GPU: Sapphire 7950

HDD: WD Black

OS: Windows 7 64-bit OEM

Any help appreciated, thanks in advance! :D 

P.S I'm in Ireland also, so whole purchase would be in euros with extra VAT and whatnot.

June 7, 2013 7:36:35 AM

Go for the Intel Core i5-4670K and as for the board I'll suggest the MSI Z87-G45 Gaming LGA 1150 Intel Z87. Do you have any plans on CrossFireX if not I think that psu is a little bit of an overkill, You can cut some cash from there and maybe upgrade the board to an ASRock Z87 Extreme6 LGA 1150 Intel Z87 there both really good boards if you ask me.
June 7, 2013 7:56:28 AM

I definitely have plans on crossfiring at some point, and I like to keep my options open either way, plus I got the psu relatively cheap, yeah I'm definitely leaning towards the MSI board, the Asus one is too gaudy with all the gold, but I've heard the companies had problems motherboard-wise before, ASrock Extreme series is a bit over my budget really for z87
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June 7, 2013 8:04:41 AM

Hi ! Buy new technology is always fun and you can also brag about it with your friends. But when it come to PC always remember that it is always a good idea to wait for little while. Haswell is just released and LGA 1150 socket motherboards are still arriving. Going with Haswell is wise choice compared to Ivy Bridge. Difference might seem little but there is no doubt that there is a difference.

If you are going with Ivy bridge and in future if you decide to upgrade then you have to buy CPU and Processor. Because LGA 1155 motherboad will to accept LGA 1150 processor.

Specifications that you have mentioned are good.

My advice would be if you need to build PC right now then buy Ivy bridge and if you can wait for 1 or 2 months then buy Haswell.
June 7, 2013 9:33:05 AM


Muhammad Nouman Baig said:
Hi ! Buy new technology is always fun and you can also brag about it with your friends. But when it come to PC always remember that it is always a good idea to wait for little while. Haswell is just released and LGA 1150 socket motherboards are still arriving. Going with Haswell is wise choice compared to Ivy Bridge. Difference might seem little but there is no doubt that there is a difference.

If you are going with Ivy bridge and in future if you decide to upgrade then you have to buy CPU and Processor. Because LGA 1155 motherboad will to accept LGA 1150 processor.

Specifications that you have mentioned are good.

My advice would be if you need to build PC right now then buy Ivy bridge and if you can wait for 1 or 2 months then buy Haswell.


What would be the benefit of waiting 1-2 months though, what realistic changes can incur from waiting this long?

June 7, 2013 9:37:04 AM

neverdice said:
Go for the Intel Core i5-4670K and as for the board I'll suggest the MSI Z87-G45 Gaming LGA 1150 Intel Z87. Do you have any plans on CrossFireX if not I think that psu is a little bit of an overkill, You can cut some cash from there and maybe upgrade the board to an ASRock Z87 Extreme6 LGA 1150 Intel Z87 there both really good boards if you ask me.


I definitely have plans on crossfiring at some point, and I like to keep my options open either way, plus I got the psu relatively cheap, yeah I'm definitely leaning towards the MSI board, the Asus one is too gaudy with all the gold, but I've heard the companies had problems motherboard-wise before, ASrock Extreme series is a bit over my budget really for z87
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June 7, 2013 10:07:27 AM

Hasfail is IB with higher power consumption and a moderate iGPU tweak that you'll never use. Don't pay more money for the same product. Buy IB, and get something like the 3570k.
June 7, 2013 11:22:44 AM

Hi Drackaxe! You have asked me why to wait 1 or 2 months?

Within 1 or 2 months there would be plenty of people who OCed their 4670k. You will get real users and websites statistics and configurations.

The best thing is to set your upgrade goal first on 1150 platform but in my opinion to first give 1150 platform a bit of time and let others do the testing for you.
June 7, 2013 11:31:26 AM

8350rocks said:
Hasfail is IB with higher power consumption and a moderate iGPU tweak that you'll never use. Don't pay more money for the same product. Buy IB, and get something like the 3570k.


Starting your post with Hasfail hurts your credibility. I think you are in the wrong forum - there is one specifically for AMD fanboys...

I'm picking up a 4770k and Z87 Extreme6 tonight and will try to remember to post results vs. my 2500k/buddies 3770k. Gotta have some time to play around first to see where I can push it.
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June 7, 2013 11:47:49 AM

Tom's Hardware reviewed hasfail. It has less headroom than IB if you OC, and draws more power under load. It's already all over the web what the benchmarks look like. TH got to 4.6 GHz on the 4770k, and they said their results were an anomaly as most of the other reviews couldn't break 4.4 GHz.

The only real gain is that the iGPU is a tad better, but even then it's not a huge improvement.

My credibility is not in question, I am telling you the truth...it really is hasfail. You will see 4% gain in general apps and 1% in gaming. It's not worth the extra money...don't believe me?

Here:

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/core-i7-4770k-haswe...















Additionally, this is what Tom's Hardware had to say about it:

Quote:
The Core i7-4770K, specifically, is a bit faster than the -3770K it replaces—but only because of IPC improvements. It runs at the same 3.5 GHz and sports the same four cores otherwise. HD Graphics 4600 are a small step up, but not significant enough to overtake AMD’s $130 A10-5800K APU in any meaningful way. The vaunted Iris Pro Graphics 5200, with eDRAM, is currently reserved for BGA-based SKUs. And although it appears we received fairly overclockable samples of the -4770K, industry consensus amongst the companies with hundreds of these chips on-hand is that, at safe input voltages, 4.3 or 4.4 GHz should be OK. The luckiest enthusiasts might get 4.5 or 4.6 GHz. Skill won’t get you far; Haswell is all about luck of the draw due to its integrated voltage regulator.


So, for the second time in a week, we’re disappointed. Haswell has a lot to offer, just not to desktop enthusiasts. Intel’s attention is fully in the mobile space, and we can tell.


Remember back to December of 2011, when we published Intel Core i7-3930K And Core i7-3820: Sandy Bridge-E, Cheaper? I gave the -3930K our Best of Tom’s Hardware award. Although the Sandy Bridge-E-based part was $600 at the time, power users who bought one have been enjoying it for the last year and a half—and, at its stock clock rate, it’s still faster than a Core i7-4770K in threaded workloads. That might have saved you a $300+ upgrade on Ivy Bridge and now a complete platform overhaul for Haswell.


For those of you on Core i7-2700K or older, Core i7-4770K makes sense as part of a two- or three-year upgrade cycle. Otherwise, I see little reason to spend money on a desktop processor upgrade, a new motherboard, and a compliant power supply. Save those few hundred dollars and put them toward a Haswell-based convertible, perhaps (or something based on Temash, if AMD’s partners can show us a compelling platform). In the meantime, we’ll be waiting on a manifestation of Haswell that more accurately shows off the spirit of Intel’s efforts.


Now, you tell me...where I was wrong with hasfail? Save your money, buy the 3570k or 3770k...it's a better buy.
June 8, 2013 1:12:55 PM

If there is a significant price difference where you live between Haswell and Ivy Bridge, then which one you should get would depend on your upgrade habits.

If you are the type of person who likes to build a completely new system every few years, I'd go with Ivy Bridge 3570K since you can just start over when Broadwell or Skylake come out. The OCing potential of Ivy Bridge means you will be able to stretch it out performance wise.

If you are instead the type of person who likes to have a system that continually evolves with little upgrades more frequently to keep it current, then I'd go with the Haswell 4670K and a Z87 MOBO since having an LGA1150 socket means you can later upgrade to an i7 Haswell or to an i5/i7 Broadwell when they come out.

If you want to save money with the latter method. You could get a cheap H87 MOBO with your 4670K which won't allow you to overclock at first, but then you could upgrade the MOBO later to a Z87. The boost from overclocking would allow you to skip buying a Broadwell.

If I had to pick one, I'd go with Haswell, but that's because where I live there is no real price difference between Haswell and Ivy Bridge gear. The potential upgrade paths then become worth the leap to the new generation then.
June 8, 2013 2:21:19 PM

8350rocks said:
Tom's Hardware reviewed hasfail. It has less headroom than IB if you OC, and draws more power under load. It's already all over the web what the benchmarks look like. TH got to 4.6 GHz on the 4770k, and they said their results were an anomaly as most of the other reviews couldn't break 4.4 GHz.

The only real gain is that the iGPU is a tad better, but even then it's not a huge improvement.

My credibility is not in question, I am telling you the truth...it really is hasfail. You will see 4% gain in general apps and 1% in gaming. It's not worth the extra money...don't believe me?

Here:

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/core-i7-4770k-haswe...















Additionally, this is what Tom's Hardware had to say about it:

Quote:
The Core i7-4770K, specifically, is a bit faster than the -3770K it replaces—but only because of IPC improvements. It runs at the same 3.5 GHz and sports the same four cores otherwise. HD Graphics 4600 are a small step up, but not significant enough to overtake AMD’s $130 A10-5800K APU in any meaningful way. The vaunted Iris Pro Graphics 5200, with eDRAM, is currently reserved for BGA-based SKUs. And although it appears we received fairly overclockable samples of the -4770K, industry consensus amongst the companies with hundreds of these chips on-hand is that, at safe input voltages, 4.3 or 4.4 GHz should be OK. The luckiest enthusiasts might get 4.5 or 4.6 GHz. Skill won’t get you far; Haswell is all about luck of the draw due to its integrated voltage regulator.


So, for the second time in a week, we’re disappointed. Haswell has a lot to offer, just not to desktop enthusiasts. Intel’s attention is fully in the mobile space, and we can tell.


Remember back to December of 2011, when we published Intel Core i7-3930K And Core i7-3820: Sandy Bridge-E, Cheaper? I gave the -3930K our Best of Tom’s Hardware award. Although the Sandy Bridge-E-based part was $600 at the time, power users who bought one have been enjoying it for the last year and a half—and, at its stock clock rate, it’s still faster than a Core i7-4770K in threaded workloads. That might have saved you a $300+ upgrade on Ivy Bridge and now a complete platform overhaul for Haswell.


For those of you on Core i7-2700K or older, Core i7-4770K makes sense as part of a two- or three-year upgrade cycle. Otherwise, I see little reason to spend money on a desktop processor upgrade, a new motherboard, and a compliant power supply. Save those few hundred dollars and put them toward a Haswell-based convertible, perhaps (or something based on Temash, if AMD’s partners can show us a compelling platform). In the meantime, we’ll be waiting on a manifestation of Haswell that more accurately shows off the spirit of Intel’s efforts.


Now, you tell me...where I was wrong with hasfail? Save your money, buy the 3570k or 3770k...it's a better buy.


Carl Paulus said:
If there is a significant price difference where you live between Haswell and Ivy Bridge, then which one you should get would depend on your upgrade habits.

If you are the type of person who likes to build a completely new system every few years, I'd go with Ivy Bridge 3570K since you can just start over when Broadwell or Skylake come out. The OCing potential of Ivy Bridge means you will be able to stretch it out performance wise.

If you are instead the type of person who likes to have a system that continually evolves with little upgrades more frequently to keep it current, then I'd go with the Haswell 4670K and a Z87 MOBO since having an LGA1150 socket means you can later upgrade to an i7 Haswell or to an i5/i7 Broadwell when they come out.

If you want to save money with the latter method. You could get a cheap H87 MOBO with your 4670K which won't allow you to overclock at first, but then you could upgrade the MOBO later to a Z87. The boost from overclocking would allow you to skip buying a Broadwell.

If I had to pick one, I'd go with Haswell, but that's because where I live there is no real price difference between Haswell and Ivy Bridge gear. The potential upgrade paths then become worth the leap to the new generation then.


This ^ - And the price difference isn't large anywhere you live...
June 8, 2013 8:06:58 PM

This has become a scrolling nightmare :p 
June 8, 2013 8:14:48 PM

Carl Paulus said:
If there is a significant price difference where you live between Haswell and Ivy Bridge, then which one you should get would depend on your upgrade habits.

If you are the type of person who likes to build a completely new system every few years, I'd go with Ivy Bridge 3570K since you can just start over when Broadwell or Skylake come out. The OCing potential of Ivy Bridge means you will be able to stretch it out performance wise.

If you are instead the type of person who likes to have a system that continually evolves with little upgrades more frequently to keep it current, then I'd go with the Haswell 4670K and a Z87 MOBO since having an LGA1150 socket means you can later upgrade to an i7 Haswell or to an i5/i7 Broadwell when they come out.

If you want to save money with the latter method. You could get a cheap H87 MOBO with your 4670K which won't allow you to overclock at first, but then you could upgrade the MOBO later to a Z87. The boost from overclocking would allow you to skip buying a Broadwell.

If I had to pick one, I'd go with Haswell, but that's because where I live there is no real price difference between Haswell and Ivy Bridge gear. The potential upgrade paths then become worth the leap to the new generation then.

Well I'm still unsure, you're right in that the price difference is minimal but I suppose I want to know which generation will realistically last me longer and to a degree leave easy headroom for upgrading, whatever upgrading type I end up being, I know there is little difference between Haswell and Ivy Bridge, but there is a more obvious upgrade path.

My question is whether, via overclocking, can an Ivy Bridge cpu outperform a Haswell cpu to a higher performance level even with say a cheap motherboard like the z77 extreme 4, with a decent air cooler?
June 8, 2013 8:19:36 PM

Muhammad Nouman Baig said:
Hi Drackaxe! You have asked me why to wait 1 or 2 months?

Within 1 or 2 months there would be plenty of people who OCed their 4670k. You will get real users and websites statistics and configurations.

The best thing is to set your upgrade goal first on 1150 platform but in my opinion to first give 1150 platform a bit of time and let others do the testing for you.

There has been plenty of OC results, reviews, and opinions on Haswell already, I really don't see a radical change coming in these results in 2 months time, also I'd much prefer to get my desktop built sooner rather than later.
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June 9, 2013 10:00:00 AM

IB will outperform hasfail because you can OC it much better, which means that would overcome and even pass the IPC improvements in hasfail since you can OC IB CPUs a good 500 MHz more in most cases, even higher in some instances.
June 9, 2013 12:41:11 PM

Drackaxe said:

Well I'm still unsure, you're right in that the price difference is minimal but I suppose I want to know which generation will realistically last me longer and to a degree leave easy headroom for upgrading, whatever upgrading type I end up being, I know there is little difference between Haswell and Ivy Bridge, but there is a more obvious upgrade path.

My question is whether, via overclocking, can an Ivy Bridge cpu outperform a Haswell cpu to a higher performance level even with say a cheap motherboard like the z77 extreme 4, with a decent air cooler?


This I do not know. I don't own a Haswell or an Ivy Bridge and do not have experience overclocking these, but I do read a lot of what other people say and it seems like the Ivy Bridge 3570K is a very solid and proven processor that can be overclocked well. Also the Z77 Extreme4 is a reputable board so I wouldn't expect any problems on that end.

Whether you can get to where you want to be with only air cooling really depends on the amount of overclocking you want to do. Some people like to push their systems as far as they can because OCing is a hobby for them and they are after the numbers. If you only want to OC to get a little more bang for your buck you can do it with air cooling, though it might be worth spending $30-50 (US) on an aftermarket CPU cooler.

From what I gather, you won't notice much of a performance difference between the two CPUs. Your choice really comes down to upgradeability and lifestyle. For example if you are an avid gamer and your living situation and income is stable, maybe just go with the Haswell for the upgradeability since it won't be too financially crippling to buy a Broadwell in a few years if you think you need it. What are you mainly going to use the computer for?

June 9, 2013 1:08:46 PM

8350rocks said:
IB will outperform hasfail because you can OC it much better, which means that would overcome and even pass the IPC improvements in hasfail since you can OC IB CPUs a good 500 MHz more in most cases, even higher in some instances.

But surely that isn't certain either way, you say it "will" outperform "hasfail", but surely it would be more correct to say it "could", from what I can gather, both IB and Haswell were pretty much luck of the draw processors, so in theory one could get an IB chip that had a max OC of 4.2ghz, just as one could, in theory, get a haswell chip that OC'd to 4.8ghz with ease.

What I'm effectively saying is that whatever option I pick, I could still be screwed nonetheless :L

June 9, 2013 1:20:10 PM

Carl Paulus said:
Drackaxe said:

Well I'm still unsure, you're right in that the price difference is minimal but I suppose I want to know which generation will realistically last me longer and to a degree leave easy headroom for upgrading, whatever upgrading type I end up being, I know there is little difference between Haswell and Ivy Bridge, but there is a more obvious upgrade path.

My question is whether, via overclocking, can an Ivy Bridge cpu outperform a Haswell cpu to a higher performance level even with say a cheap motherboard like the z77 extreme 4, with a decent air cooler?


This I do not know. I don't own a Haswell or an Ivy Bridge and do not have experience overclocking these, but I do read a lot of what other people say and it seems like the Ivy Bridge 3570K is a very solid and proven processor that can be overclocked well. Also the Z77 Extreme4 is a reputable board so I wouldn't expect any problems on that end.

Whether you can get to where you want to be with only air cooling really depends on the amount of overclocking you want to do. Some people like to push their systems as far as they can because OCing is a hobby for them and they are after the numbers. If you only want to OC to get a little more bang for your buck you can do it with air cooling, though it might be worth spending $30-50 (US) on an aftermarket CPU cooler.

From what I gather, you won't notice much of a performance difference between the two CPUs. Your choice really comes down to upgradeability and lifestyle. For example if you are an avid gamer and your living situation and income is stable, maybe just go with the Haswell for the upgradeability since it won't be too financially crippling to buy a Broadwell in a few years if you think you need it. What are you mainly going to use the computer for?



Firstly, I'm only 17, so a steady income and living situation is pretty much out of the window for me for at least the next 10 years or so :p , I can however pull the funds together to buy Haswell if I decide to.

Primarily I would be gaming yeah, and of course your average internet surfing and typed work and all that, however to put it simply I could develop a range of interests in future for all I know, so I'd like to keep my options open.

I think my main fear is, although my first instinct is to go for new tech, that Haswell and the new MOBO's might suddenly sprout a load of problems in their first batches and I'll have wasted my time and money.

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June 9, 2013 2:10:43 PM

While IB didn't OC as well as SB because of heat issues, hasfail will be a full 15C hotter at the same clocks. Meaning essentially...you won't see a hasfail hit 4.8 often at all. Meanwhile, if you can get IB to hit 4.6-4.8 that's pretty average. The average out there right now for hasfail is about 4.2-4.3 without going to some extraordinarily elaborate high end cooling system.

The issue is not that hasfail doesn't OC, it's that you need liquid nitrogen to keep it cool and stable.
June 9, 2013 5:02:19 PM

8350rocks said:
While IB didn't OC as well as SB because of heat issues, hasfail will be a full 15C hotter at the same clocks. Meaning essentially...you won't see a hasfail hit 4.8 often at all. Meanwhile, if you can get IB to hit 4.6-4.8 that's pretty average. The average out there right now for hasfail is about 4.2-4.3 without going to some extraordinarily elaborate high end cooling system.

The issue is not that hasfail doesn't OC, it's that you need liquid nitrogen to keep it cool and stable.

Darn, seems that Intel really has left the desktop enthusiasts to bite the dust huh..

As much sense as your argument makes, I still feel as if I have a dilemma, so okay, clearly Haswell OC's at much higher temps due to the integrated VRM and whatnot, but what of its other improvements, it still has an improved IPC, however small the improvement is, it is still one, there is improved power efficiency, not under load of course as you mentioned, but still a more efficient idle state, and there is a more future-proof upgrade path with the inclusion of avx2 instruction sets as well as the improved 8 series chipsets, these are clear advantages to "hasfail" over Ivy Bridge, no?

Best solution

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June 9, 2013 9:21:50 PM
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I am a game developer working on the newest gaming engines...they barely included AVX instructions...AVX2 won't be very commonplace likely until something like the next generation of gaming engines. Additionally...the IPC improvements are overcome if you OC an IB CPU. The only other improvement is the iGPU which, as a gamer, you won't use.

Don't spend more money for the same product on a new socket with higher power consumption and worse heat.

IB is plenty for you at this point.
June 10, 2013 7:46:49 AM

8350rocks said:
I am a game developer working on the newest gaming engines...they barely included AVX instructions...AVX2 won't be very commonplace likely until something like the next generation of gaming engines. Additionally...the IPC improvements are overcome if you OC an IB CPU. The only other improvement is the iGPU which, as a gamer, you won't use.

Don't spend more money for the same product on a new socket with higher power consumption and worse heat.

IB is plenty for you at this point.

Well you're right, I don't want you to be, but your answer does make the most sense :D  What OC on 3570k IB would be equivalent to lets say a lucky 4670k OC of 4.5ghz

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June 10, 2013 7:51:55 AM

Well average is much closer to 4.3 on Hasfail, you should be able to get an IB 3570k to 4.8 GHz or very close, and that would easily be faster than hasfail at 4.3 GHz. If you were "lucky" and got a 4670k to 4.5, the IB would still likely be just a bit faster, though the gap wouldn't be as wide in performance.
June 10, 2013 1:37:40 PM

I actually am now also starting to think that Ivy Bridge may be a better choice for you. I've heard from a couple of places that Broadwell will be BGA only so socket 1150 will be Haswell exclusive. This places the upgradeability of Haswell in the exact same camp as Ivy Bridge. The only real difference I see now is the integrated graphics, which won't matter if you are using a discrete GPU.

For what it's worth I was debating myself on a 3570K vs 4670K for my new budget gaming rig, and while I was initially leaning towards the Haswell, I've made up my mind over the last few days to go with the Ivy Bridge instead (i5-3570K with an ASrock Z77 Extreme4).
June 10, 2013 4:04:22 PM

Carl Paulus said:
I actually am now also starting to think that Ivy Bridge may be a better choice for you. I've heard from a couple of places that Broadwell will be BGA only so socket 1150 will be Haswell exclusive. This places the upgradeability of Haswell in the exact same camp as Ivy Bridge. The only real difference I see now is the integrated graphics, which won't matter if you are using a discrete GPU.

For what it's worth I was debating myself on a 3570K vs 4670K for my new budget gaming rig, and while I was initially leaning towards the Haswell, I've made up my mind over the last few days to go with the Ivy Bridge instead (i5-3570K with an ASrock Z77 Extreme4).

Yeah I'm basically in the same boat as you, I'm pretty much convinced to go with Ivy Bridge other than the primal urge in me for new technology :p . I was thinking of going for the Extreme4 too, although the fact its slightly a smaller ATX annoys me slightly, I may go for the Extreme6 purely on an aesthetics based reasoning because I'm that kind of guy :D 
!