photonboy,
I agree completely that no one should spend money unnecessarily. The thing is, "high performance" is by definition a luxury- if any system -not only computer) performs the task to completion, that is sufficient. Engineering is finding the minimum means of achieving a function.
Of course, the function has qualities and quantities- control and performance. In computers, the functions and definition of performance varies considerably. In the case of gaming computers, the frame rate of games at the highest settings is the performance goal, and for image content, image quality in terms of precision finishing is the goal. The gaming performance is the more measurable- frame rates, while for content creation, speed is an important factor- time is money, but that's secondary to quality.
As for the system build I propose as a high performance image creation, the components are intended to balance high precision calculation, which affects qualities such as alaising, light, particle, fluid, shadow affects and color mix and gradients with reasonably fast rendering.
After twenty years using CAD and graphics design software on nine computers, I've found that above a fairly low threshold of function and image quality, the systems needs to include a Xeon > ECC RAM > Quadro. Recently, I found that in my use a Xeon > ECC > GTX system would simply not function in several important areas. None of these image qualities and features can be reflected in benchmarks, they are experiential. In other parameters, such as floating point and integer calculation, double precision, error correction, and in 2D and 3D composite testing, memory bandwidth, disk subsystem and so on are helpful as good scores will translate into a subjective high performance. When I changed my graphics card from a GTX 285 to a Quadro FX 4800- in price new, that's going from a $350 card to a $1,200 card- the system rating in Passmark dropped from 1909 to 1859 but it solved a number of serious quality and running problems that involved a considerable frustration, loss of time, and having to settle for poor image quality.
You ask >
1) CPU: what is the performance difference versus the i5-3570K, i7-3770K or similar Haswell CPU's?
(Some programs are very demanding but is AutoCAD one of them?)
AutoCad has always been a low-demand application. However, Solidworks and any 3D Cad with simulation capabilities is the opposite case. As in any workstation, the configuration has to be capable of the most demanding application. Maya is another that I intend to use in future- and that is polygon intensive, 3D moldelin, eanimation, and rendering- all the most system demanding.
Renderings can require hours of processing and is one of the few applications that can use all available cores. In a no cost-limit system, I would specify dual Xeon 2697W's -8-core Xeons for 16 cores /32 threads and a dual CPU also provide more PCIe lanes and memory capacity. And for only $3,800,.. My current system has dual 4- core Xeons. If you look at this chart >
http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu_list.php
> and put them in order of rank, you will see that 8 of the top 10 and 15 of the top 20 CPU's are Xeons. and, Xeons have enhanced floating point and integer calculation.
2) Graphics Card: In the link to "...pugetsystems.." above somewhere we saw a sharp bottleneck where a better GPU made little difference. So would the $800 card make any difference? It appears that the CPU is the current bottleneck.
I'm not sure to what you're referring, but in Passmark, a system using the E5-1650 / Quadro K4000 configuration, but an HP Z420 had a rating of 4482, CPU score of 11829 and 2D / 3D scores of 689 / 2789. In the Top 100 systems, the number 6 computer uses 2X Xeon 2687W's and a Quadro 6000.
3) RAM: How much is needed?
Video editing is intensive, but does AutoCAD need more than 8GB? (If so, where's the proof?)
AutoCad does not need a lot of CPU power nor memory, but I- in common with most in this kind of work, use multiple complex applications at once use- up to 7 complex programs (plus OS)- at once and sometimes single files of 600MB and up to 1GB of files open at once, plus Internet and Media Player. When I had 12GB of RAM in my current system, I would occasionally see the HD sctivvity light go mad- I was running Ptograms off the HD instread of in RAM. I increased the RAM to 16GB, but when doign a new system, I would always have headroom. There’s a reason why a new Dell Precision T7600 supports 192GB of RAM and many workstations today use 64GB.
4) SSD: How much capacity is needed?
(Mainly, how large would the work files be? 120GB might be plenty.)
I would not use the SSD at all for files, it would be only for OS and applications. I do this on my current computer in a partition which occupies 147GB and I have not installed several large applications that I intend to use in the future. I could probably use a 180GB SSD, but the Samsung 256 has a very good reputation and I hate having to fuss over drive space. In terms of files, on my work computer I keep about 75,000, which is only about 80GB, but if I added sound recording files, I would have about 1.5TB.
5) RAID setup?
*I would argue that the BEST SETUP would likely be that Windows and the programs simply use the SSD completely and that a SINGLE hard drive be used with Acronis True Image 2013 to create an Auto-backup of the Windows drive (set to weekly). A single 2TB WD Green should be more than adequate (slow and quiet).
**For critical files use SyncbackSE Free to create a DAILY automated backup of the AutoCAD work folder. (from the SSD to the Hard Drive)
Yes, I could survive on a single disk system, but two drives means simultaneous read / write and RAID 1 mirroring means never having to say I'm out of business. It's of no use having a system image and back up on a single drive. If that drive fails, the system image can't be used.
6) PSU:
That is a quality PSU, but it's overkill if it's determined only a GTX660 is needed. There are plenty of high quality PSU's for $80 to $100.
My experience with high end audio has made me very particular about power supplies dynamic headroom, noiseless (not sound) transient response,and reliability. Also, in the system described, I intended to someday upgrade by adding a GPU copreocessor or two- when they aren’t $2-3,000 that is.
7) Windows 7 Ultimate? WHY?
a) Windows 8 64-bit is superior to Windows 7 and the Start Screen issue is avoided with Start8 (It's more secure, more reliable, boots faster etc...)
b) Windows 8 or Windows 8 Pro should be adequate and cost less (unless there's a specific feature that is indispensable)
The indispensable features of Windows 7 Ultimate are reliability and refinement. I will never buy a Microsoft product in the first three years. The fact that Windows 8 sales were less than Vista, an d8.1 “Blue” had to brought out is a sure sign of another crude product released prematurely. The interface, just as is the ianane and resource hungry Windows 7 “Aero” is a complete waste. I would use XP Pro if it weren’t for the lack of driver support for new peripherals. I’d seen a lot of offices still using XP and read recently that 38% of Windows systems are still XP.
8) CPU Cooler:
The Noctua NH-D14 does not have PWM fans. Therefore most modern motherboards can NOT control the fan speed. Either get a good air cooler with PWM fans or a water-cooler with built-in control like the Corsair H-series.
The mother board specified to quote from ASUS has >
“Fan Xpert+
Customizable speeds with independent fan control
Hardware-level ASUS Fan Xpert+ allows users to independently adjust both CPU and case fan speeds with multiple dedicated controllers based on different ambient temperatures, climate conditions and system loads. Built-in profiles offer flexible automatic and manual fan speed controls to achieve a quiet and cool computing environment.” < END
9) Motherboard:
If it's determined that the Intel i5/i7 Haswell CPU's can get good performance why spend $380 when a $150 motherboard is adequate.
The motherboard specified is $500 and was chosen for accommodating Xeon E5 and ECC RAM,, the combination of slots that will allow the possible addition of both GPU co-processing accelerators, 64GB ECC RAM, 6GB/s SATA controllers, and PCIe drives like OCZ RevoDrives, plus it’s very high benchmarks results (X79 chipset). That particular board, because it is made for overclocking- which I will never do- also has very throughly worked out board cooling. There are very few boards. This is again, not about saving every dime, but features, reliability and performance, and having the ability to expand. I’m not against spending less if the component has the same features, performance, and expandibility.
To summarize, a content creation system has very different needs and components from a content consumer system- and when it is the core of a business and produces income instead of for entertainment. Those who have not worked in content creation may be mystified by the arcane, subjective characteristics and shocked at the what seems like unnecessarily high hardware- and software cost (AutoCad $4,600, Maya $5,600, Autodesk Inventor $7,300, Solidworks up to $9,000, Catia up to $26,000, Adobe CS $2,700) but in my experience for high quality results at a good performance level, it’s necessary to make a careful analysis of the parts and what they do well, as well as configurations that emphasize quality results.
Computers> They’re not just for shooting aliens anymore!
Good Discussion!
Cheers,
BambiBoom