Gaming & Video = 4770K vs SB-E?

LordHaHa · Jun 8, 2013

Hello, a few years ago I queried this forum for thoughts regarding a Core 2 QX9650 build, and I thought since I have another hardware refresh upcoming I would do so again.

While I do not need to upgrade from a gaming perspective (a QX9650 OCed to 3.6GHz coupled with a GTX 580 is still - somewhat depressingly in a way though still impressive - quite sufficient for that particular kind of task), I work with Adobe Premiere and with HD content becoming more prevalent (and even higher resolutions on the horizon) the consumer-grade Core 2 simply isn't sufficient for that particular kind of task.

So I am in the market to upgrade. The only problem is that I am unsure what route I should go processor wise. Not so much the manufacturer (Intel for single threaded considerations) but the exact model and form factor.

On the one hand, Haswell 4770K seems like the logical choice with the latest architecture, instruction sets and stock single threaded performance. I do put a value on that third variable as by-and-large many programs still operate in that particular environment. As a result I have been waiting for a processor that has x2 single threaded performance over stock QX9650 and the 4770K seems to be close on that point. Also there are a rather large number of feature rich motherboards being developed for Socket 1150 (although I have a particular Gigabyte board, the GA-Z87X-UD5H, already chosen if I go this route). Some would point to the lack of VT-d as a deal killer but since I've been operating without this feature in QX9650 for some time and as virtualization is not a priority for my purposes, this is not a feature I am placing a priority on.

But on the other hand, the overclocking performance of the 4770K is somewhat problematic as has been reported several places. This is a concern as part of the reason I've been able to keep my QX9650 competitive (aside from video card refreshes) was the ability to give it a reasonable OC. With Haswell, at least with the release stepping, this does not seem possible. Furthermore, if I do need to upgrade at some point (which I am not really considering but it would be nice to at least have the option) then Broadwell is not going to be an option. And it is highly unlikely Skylake will use Socket 1150 at this juncture given expected architecture changes between now and then.

So in a way Socket 2011 and Sandy Bridge-E in either 3930K or 3960X (the latter if I can get a good deal) seems like a possible alternative. While the single core performance is not where I want it (by default about 15-20% under what I want at stock), SB does have a history of being very OC friendly and the 6 cores would make Premiere very happy. Furthermore IB-E will be coming along presumably, which would give some options.

Then again, the motherboards being produced for Socket 2011 are not really as compelling as the new 1150 offerings, except on the high end. But then those are 50-100% more expensive and that puts them a bit outside of my budget at the moment.

So what solutions would the board be willing to entertain regarding this situation? I suppose the question, the cliff notes version, is should I go for Haswell and the better motherboards and stock productivity architecture...or SB-E and OC it for my video/gaming purposes and keep my eyes open for IB-E even though the motherboards don't really seem as compelling?

dannyboy2233 · Jun 12, 2013

The SB-E will be much better for editing, as it has six cores; much better multitasking, rendering, 3D graphics, etc. In gaming, you won't notice a difference; in fact, a 4670K would play any game perfectly... IMO an SB-E is overkill for almost any system. Almost all SB-E motherboards are extremely expensive (as are the CPU's), and the performance benefit that you get wouldn't be worth the extra $250. I would get a Gigabyte UD3H motherboard (or an Asus WS motherboard if you need to run more than dual-SLI), and then stick with the 4770k. It is the most price-effective for what you are looking to do. I have a 3770k, and it handles anything I need it to do and more, so I'm sure you'd be just fine with the next-gen of that.

jaguarskx · Jun 12, 2013

If reducing the amount of time necessary to encode video SB-E all the way.

If video encoding performance is not particularly high on your list, then I would go with the i7-4770k.

In terms of game performance, you will not really notice much of a difference between the two CPUs.

8350rocks · Jun 12, 2013

SB-E would be the much better bet. LGA2011 has better motherboards than even LGA1150 does, plus quad channel memory and several other benefits. Plus, that platform is going to see IB-E soon, and you will have a great upgrade path later if you decide you want to upgrade.

Additionally, intel has basically come out and said that LGA2011 is likely the only socket that won't see a mass infusion of BGA parts replace a great many of the SKUs. (Newer intel parts will have a large number of socketless SKUs and CPU will be soldered to the MB which means no upgrading).

Plus, the SB-E CPUs destroy the 4770k and anything else Intel puts out. You're better off with SB-E.

dannyboy2233 · Jun 12, 2013

8350rocks :

But the SB-E destroys the 4770k in a way that no one in real life could ever get it to do. 95% of us would never even reach a quarter of the capacity of an SB-E processor. Unless @OP is an extreme video editer/renders video (like professionally) the 4770k is going to be sufficient, especially since the SB-E setups are extremely expensive.
@8350rocks; The quality of the motherboards is practically the same, just 2011 socket MoBo's are extremely expensive and overpriced. You won't ever end up using the functionality offered by one of them over an 1150 MoBo.

8350rocks · Jun 12, 2013

If you SLI or CF you already are using the increased features.

LGA 2011 boards have 40 PCIe lanes of bandwidth...that means your CF/SLI gets x16 per GPU. On a socket 1150 board, you have 16 lanes of PCIe which means 2 GPUs get x8.

Ironically AMD 990FX boards have 32 lanes of PCIe...so they can do the same as the 2011 socket on a 2 way SLI/CF.

dannyboy2233 · Jun 12, 2013

8350rocks :

It depends on the board. The Asus Z87-WS board is cheaper than most 2011 boards, and offers that exact feature; the ability to run dual x16 PCI-E lanes. You DON'T necessarily need an SB-E CPU/MoBo.

8350rocks · Jun 12, 2013

If you're spending $250 on MB and $350 on CPU though...what's another $200?

dannyboy2233 · Jun 12, 2013

8350rocks :

An extra 33%, which is quite a lot.

LordHaHa · Jun 13, 2013

Thank you all for your help so far. After reading some other posts and making more posts on here recently I had thought about going for 4770k but this conversation has brought some new things for me to consider.

To dannyboy: I use the entire CS5.5 package (well, not Illustrator, to be fair) in a professional environment, and certainly for that task alone a hex-core would be desirable in a system (of course other considerations would be RAM, video hardware, storage/scratch, etc). I do realize that for gaming a relatively modern quad core is sufficient so long as the video hardware is up to date; in fact I would not touch my QX9650 if it were not for my needs for improved IPC for media purposes as no game I have thrown at it with a GTX 580 has really given it any issues even with top-tier settings.

But while a hex-core would be desirable I am simply not impressed with the current crop of 2011 motherboards. The boards that I would feel very confident in buying due to their aggressive feature set and stability are almost as expensive as the CPU, and they lack one thing that I must have; a single conventional PCI slot as I will be getting an HT Omega Claro XT sound card for this build (it's PCI-E successor does not seem have the quite build quality as this earlier iteration) and those boards that have that particular feature, while cheaper seem to have a somewhat higher frequency of mechanical or firmware issues. Where as with Haswell there's a few mid to higher-range options with a single PCI slot (not in the very top tier of course but I am not planning on a tri/quad card setup presently).

To 8350: Well, I expect that a Haswell part at the same clockspeed as a SB-E part will in lightly threaded situations outperform the SB-E by about 10-20%, if the tests I have seen are accurate.

Cost is an issue though; 300+500 for Mobo and CPU would be $800 just for those parts, whereas for Haswell I can get the pair for 33-50% less. Furthermore I already have a heatsink compatible with Socket 1150 (actually 1155 but as I understand 1155-1150-(maybe)1156 sinks use the same mount setup) whereas I have no non-stock cooling solution for 2011 at present.
---
I guess the one thing that is also keeping me from 2011 right now is that with IB-E on the horizon I am dead certain that we will see some new mainboard options when it comes to market. So I could get a SB-E + board right now and likely be fine with it, but I'd like to have a 2011 board more in line with what I am seeing with mainstream Intel-based boards now.

dannyboy2233 · Jun 13, 2013

LordHaHa :

Thank you all for your help so far. After reading some other posts and making more posts on here recently I had thought about going for 4770k but this conversation has brought some new things for me to consider.

To dannyboy: I use the entire CS5.5 package (well, not Illustrator, to be fair) in a professional environment, and certainly for that task alone a hex-core would be desirable in a system (of course other considerations would be RAM, video hardware, storage/scratch, etc). I do realize that for gaming a relatively modern quad core is sufficient so long as the video hardware is up to date; in fact I would not touch my QX9650 if it were not for my needs for improved IPC for media purposes as no game I have thrown at it with a GTX 580 has really given it any issues even with top-tier settings.

But while a hex-core would be desirable I am simply not impressed with the current crop of 2011 motherboards. The boards that I would feel very confident in buying due to their aggressive feature set and stability are almost as expensive as the CPU, and they lack one thing that I must have; a single conventional PCI slot as I will be getting an HT Omega Claro XT sound card for this build (it's PCI-E successor does not seem have the quite build quality as this earlier iteration) and those boards that have that particular feature, while cheaper seem to have a somewhat higher frequency of mechanical or firmware issues. Where as with Haswell there's a few mid to higher-range options with a single PCI slot (not in the very top tier of course but I am not planning on a tri/quad card setup presently).

To 8350: Well, I expect that a Haswell part at the same clockspeed as a SB-E part will in lightly threaded situations outperform the SB-E by about 10-20%, if the tests I have seen are accurate.

Cost is an issue though; 300+500 for Mobo and CPU would be $800 just for those parts, whereas for Haswell I can get the pair for 33-50% less. Furthermore I already have a heatsink compatible with Socket 1150 (actually 1155 but as I understand 1155-1150-(maybe)1156 sinks use the same mount setup) whereas I have no non-stock cooling solution for 2011 at present.
---
I guess the one thing that is also keeping me from 2011 right now is that with IB-E on the horizon I am dead certain that we will see some new mainboard options when it comes to market. So I could get a SB-E + board right now and likely be fine with it, but I'd like to have a 2011 board more in line with what I am seeing with mainstream Intel-based boards now.

Good choice, great reasons

LordHaHa · Jun 13, 2013

dannyboy2233 :

Well, it's not really as much of a choice as it is the reality of the situation. To be honest I'd be fine with a SB-E if there were a better crop of boards. But that won't happen for another few months yet; I know Gigabyte is working on a dual socket board in 2011 that is still in the design phase and I would not be surprised if the other board mfgs (ASUS, MSI, ASRock, Biostar, ECS, etc.) are also working on refreshed parts as well. And that's when IB-E will be out, so you may as well get that fresh as well.

There's the Xeon option and that would certainly resolve any build quality concerns by opening up workstation parts, but then cost goes out the window; so does overclocking on top of that.

I still haven't made a choice in particular when it comes to the CPU. Of course this is as much of a motherboard issue as it is one for the CPU at this point; and there its a competition between the GA-Z87X-UD5H (1150) or the GA-X79-UP4 (2011) based on what's out there right now.

So between 4770K in a GA-Z87X-UD5H, or a 3930K/3960X (likely the former of the two) in a GA-X79-UP4...hmm...

8350rocks · Jun 13, 2013

You do know that the Sabertooth 990FX MB for AMD has 32 lanes of PCIe 3.0 and 4 USB 3.0 ports as well as all the tricks the 1150 and 2011 boards have...(except quad channel memory)

dannyboy2233 · Jun 13, 2013

8350rocks :

Any and all Sabertooth motherboards are not worth getting in my opinion.

LordHaHa · Jun 13, 2013

8350rocks :

An AMD processor for general purpose or gaming builds is very reasonable, but for these kind of applications the IPC of a Sandy Bridge or later part from Intel is necessary.

dannyboy2233 · Jun 13, 2013

LordHaHa :

Agreed. I generally consider AMD as an option for either budget builds, or less hardcore gaming.

8350rocks · Jun 13, 2013

dannyboy2233 :

Then get a Crosshair V Formula Z...and pay more money.

dannyboy2233 · Jun 13, 2013

8350rocks :

dannyboy2233 :

Then get a Crosshair V Formula Z...and pay more money.

However, with a processor that completely under-performs a 4770k or SB-E in 99% of things.

LordHaHa · Jun 13, 2013

Well I have had luck with some AMD processors in very low TDP builds as well. With the last few generations of Intel processors things have gotten a lot better on that end, but I have had a Athlon 64 3500+ 35W part replace (someone else's) Dell 2GHz P4 tower lying on its side in an unventilated cupboard (needless to say the caps were near death, dust everywhere) a while back. Probably these days I'd like to undervolt a more modern processor, but it was an inexpensive and effective way to resolve that other party's issue at the time (also putting the new terminal in a small but well-cooled case didn't hurt either).

Sort of getting off topic though.

I am sort of getting to the point where maybe waiting to see how IB-E will shake out, but if you need it now, you need it now...

LordHaHa · Jun 17, 2013

I think after much deliberation I am going with Sandy Bridge-E, in a way sort of surprisingly. I am getting this for improvements in video editing primarily and hex core is therefore the way forward, even though those 1150 boards are very attractive. Also additional funding has presented itself, so it's a less problematic path for me to take as a solution than it was recently.

In a way I'd like to wait until IB-E in about 3-4 months from now, or even Haswell-E a year from now (crossed fingers), especially if the leaked roadmap recently is accurate and Haswell-E is a new socket (sort of at any rate, a rejigged Socket 2011 that's not backwards compatible with the current offerings). But then again I sort of suspect secretly that the OC situation isn't going to be much better in the upcoming 2011 formats than it is on the equivalent mainstream parts, and that's a consideration on my end for system longevity. Hopefully IB-E and subsequent BIOS updates to the current X79 boards will render a different outcome, however.

Now I just need to finalize the target motherboard, and for that I'm heading to another (more appropriate) section of the forums.

Som3one · Jun 17, 2013

Funny, I was in the same position. Or more precisely, I was until just yesterday. lol

But I decided to go with Haswell just for a few reasons:
The price.
The features of the new 1150 boards.
Although the next "E" CPUs might be using the 2011 socket but they probably will need a new chipset. So, one would have to buy another new motherboard, anyway.

LordHaHa · Jun 17, 2013

Som3one :

I suppose if one is able to wait, IB-E is close enough to consider and I suspect we will see some new Socket 2011 boards at that time. The features in that case will be a little more modern so that will remove some of allure of the 1150 boards.

Another thing that sort of contributed to my decision are the rumblings of a Haswell refresh (including a refresh of the 4770K-tier part) before Broadwell is released, so I'd rather wait for a better stepping, especially given the issues with heat and overclocking that the release Haswell's seem to have. Of course some of that is due to issues regarding the loosely-seated processor cap and TIM changes beginning with Ivy Bridge, and I am not confident that Intel will resolve those issues in the near future.

Gaming & Video = 4770K vs SB-E?

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