Should I buy or should I build? Design/Animation student with Gaming in mind.

Wzyz

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Hello Tom's Hardware community. I am 19 years old, Australian and currently am studying design in animation.
I frequently need programs such as:

- Adobe Flash cs6
- Adobe Photoshop cs6
- Adobe After Effects cs6

I am also a somewhat occasional gamer.
Games I would like to play would be:

- Bioshock Infinite
- Team fortress 2

I need a computer that would run those programs/games really well. I have never built a computer in my life, all my previous ones were prebuilt Dells. My consideration for a Dell would be:

- Dell XPS 8500 ($1,018.97 AUD)
- Monitor; Dell UltraSharp U2713HM 27'' LED ($703.14 AUD)

Which would cost me $1,722.11 (including GST).

Which is a bit pricey. I am wondering would I be better off making my own computer? The problem with Dell XPS 8500 is that it has an i7 processor but a NVADIA 640 which I am told is a low-end graphics card not suited for games or i7.

I am not a computer literate person and know very little about the intricacies of building a computer. All I know is the name of the main parts of a computer and the purpose of some of them.

Thank you for reading.

EDIT: Oh btw, I'm only considering building because of the price. If you can somehow find all the parts and things I need to build and is cheaper than the $1,018.97 by a considerable margin, I would build.

So my main question is, "Would building a computer that would suit my needs, be a lot cheaper than the Dell XPS 8500 for $1,018.97 ?"
 
Solution
This is close to what I would recommend. The case might not look the prettiest (aesthetics vs price), but so far as I can tell it will fit everything inside although it may not be the best for cooling.

http://au.pcpartpicker.com/p/14zk8

The parts list on pcpartpicker Aus is limited in disc drives, that was the only one for the budget, but online searching may turn up more.

The graphics card, is not the greatest for high resolution... your looking a medium settings at best on games. But if thats not so important then, great.


The processor is probably overkill, it is sheer rendering muscle, It was one of the BEST domestic cpu's for animation, up until 3 weeks ago. It will get the job done. For college work? you could easily trade it...

tential

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You need to say what the specs of the Dell XPS 8500.
XPS 8500 means nothing to anyone.

The way dell sells products, that could mean sometimes 16+ configurations.
Pretty much XPS 8500 tells us the case you're using if even that.

The main differences between building/buying though:
Building: You get more performance for your money, quite a bit more. For $1000, I got an i7 with a HD7950(a LOT better GPU than the one you have)
Buying: You get peace of mind that it will work when you get it.

Also, location. You're aussie so good deals for Americans, may not work for you in Australia land.
 

Wzyz

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I see, sorry about that! I'm a new user here and am still getting used to posting.

Here are the specs of a Dell XPS 8500:


Processor

- 3rd Generation Intel® Core™ i7-3770 processor (3.40 GHz with Turbo Boost 2.0 up to 3.90 GHz)

Operating System

- Windows 8, English (64bit)

Monitor

- No Monitor

Memory4

- 12GB (2x2GB + 2x4GB) DDR3 SDRAM 1600MHz Memory

Hard Drive

- 2TB SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive with Native Command Queuing

Video Card

- NVIDIA® GeForce® GT 640 1GB GDDR5

Optical Drive

- 16X DVD+/-RW drive
 

tential

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Why is dell selling you such an extremely weird ram situation? 2x2GB and 2x4GB? If you customized that let me know.

Intel Core i7-3770 is last generation.

2TB of HD space? How much data do you save? Some of my friends have never used past 250GB let alone 1000-2000 GB of space. I on the other hand have 6 TBs of HD space.

This is partially why building it yourself can be better and learning in general.
Some tips though when purchasing a premade PC:
-NEVER ADD MEMORY
This is where people like Dell make their largest profit margins. They charge you an arm and a leg to add memory. Usually, you can find the same memory at half the price.
-NEVER add HDD space
Same as above

What I would do in your situation right now and the first step I would take is this:
Go to newegg (I dunno the austratilian extension I'm assuming .au?) and find out how much each of those parts cost in Aussie dollars and report back. It's hard to know the deal you're getting if you don't know how much each component costs. I know how much it costs in American Dollars, but that doesn't help you haha.
 

Wzyz

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Thanks for your reply! I have not customised or done anything to the XPS that they offered. I wouldn't know the difference or whether it's weird or not, so thank you very much for pointing it out. I will do what you have asked, and will update you as soon as possible!

I am not sure how much data I will use. Is that a problem? I will be working on large projects and assignments so I guess I will be using a lot but can not give a specific amount.

Just a question, is the XPS that I listed above be good for my needs? Even if it's a bit weird.
 

drtoast

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Guarunteed that you can build a compabrable pc for less than that dell. For the same money as that dell? you could take it to the cleaners.

If someone else hasn't sorted you out when i wake up I'll be happy to help.

Although for your use you want an i5 high end or i7 mid range at the least.

You need a:-
-CPU (processor)
-Memory (RAM) 8gb of 1600 recommended
-Motherboard (sometimes called a mobo) of b75 chipset or better probably (most sites let you filter by chipset)
-GPU (graphics card) if its a GTX you want a 560ti or better, 660+/750 +
-Hard Drive for the budget, likely a HDD or SSHD(SolidState Hybrid) doubt you could fit a good full SolidState below budget
-PSU (power supply) Check the graphic card specifications on the makers site (gtx = nvidia/geforce) they usually determine the power supply size and you can find the minimums needed there.
-Disc drive, Do you need a writer? for DVD or Blu-ray?
-Lastly a Case (make sure its big enough for your graphics card to fit in.
 

drtoast

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And data wise, storage can be expanded with enough spare space, ask your fellow students or professor roughly how much space the course your doing will take, If they are any good at their job they should have a rough idea, then add approx 200-300gb on top of it for personal files like music, games and a few movies.

The XPS is reasonable for your needs, except the graphics card would need replacing, (a hefty cost on top) and it is overpriced (considerably).

 

Wzyz

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Ok I have gathered all the US prices of the parts (althought I'm not sure I'm doing this right because I don't know what most of the terms mean)

Memory: CORSAIR DOMINATOR 12GB (3 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Desktop Memory Model CMP12GX3M3A1600C9

$129.99

Video card: ASUS GT640-1GD5-L GeForce GT 640 1GB 64-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 HDCP Ready Low Profile Ready Video Card

$89.99

Processor: Intel Core i7-3770 Ivy Bridge 3.4GHz (3.9GHz Turbo) LGA 1155 77W Quad-Core Desktop Processor Intel HD Graphics 4000 BX80637I73770

$289.99

Hard drive: Western Digital WD AV-GP WD20EURS 2TB 64MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive - OEM

$109.99

Optical drive: HP Half-Height 16x DVD-RW Optical Drive 16X DVD+R 8X DVD+RW 16X DVD-R 16X DVD-ROM 40X CD-R 32X CD-RW 40X CD-ROM Black SATA Model 447328-B21

$65.99

= $685.95 US or $683.74 AUD

But theres a lot more in the Dell XPS package, here's a screenshot of all the things they listed:

http://i.imgur.com/lbMdgOr.png OR

lbMdgOr.png


 

Wzyz

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Thank you for your reply. I'm afraid it's a new course, I am in it's second year of birth and my teacher/lecturers are computer illiterate in terms of computing language etc. Most of them are old and I had to help one to set up a projector.

I think I will need a reasonable amount of space, thats all I know unfortunately. A couple of after effects projects here and there, a couple of flash projects and lots of photoshop files.
 

mastrom101

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PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant / Benchmarks

CPU: Intel Core i7-4770K 3.5GHz Quad-Core Processor ($389.00 @ PCCaseGear)
CPU Cooler: Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO 82.9 CFM Sleeve Bearing CPU Cooler ($35.00 @ PCCaseGear)
Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-Z87X-UD3H ATX LGA1150 Motherboard ($229.00 @ Mwave Australia)
Memory: Corsair Vengeance 16GB (4 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($145.00 @ Scorptec)
Storage: Seagate Barracuda 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($69.00 @ PCCaseGear)
Video Card: Gigabyte Radeon HD 7850 1GB Video Card ($169.00 @ PCCaseGear)
Case: Corsair 200R ATX Mid Tower Case ($75.00 @ Mwave Australia)
Power Supply: Antec High Current Gamer 520W 80 PLUS Bronze Certified ATX12V / EPS12V Power Supply ($85.00 @ Scorptec)
Optical Drive: LG GH24NS95 DVD/CD Writer ($21.00 @ Mwave Australia)
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 8 (OEM) (64-bit) ($99.00 @ PCCaseGear)
Total: $1316.00
(Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available.)
(Generated by PCPartPicker 2013-06-09 12:29 EST+1000)

Australian prices are expensive. The Dell may be a better choice for you, but remember, you won't be able to game.

The build above is more expensive. But it can be overclocked, uses high-quality parts and will be able to game on modest settings.
 

Wzyz

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Wow, thanks for going to the trouble and actually finding each part and listing their prices, thank you very much!

Could I still run those games on mid or low settings? And gaming would be my second piority, my first one is to be able to design/animate using the adobe programs fluently.
 

mastrom101

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http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/geforce-gt-640-review,3214-11.html

At 1080P, you're looking at games at here lowest setting @about 30 FPS. I wouldn't recommend it, it won't be enough power for newer titles.

It's a difficult choice even for me to make. The dell is $300 cheaper. The homebuilt is faster, overclockable, made with better parts and is more upgradeable. Is that worth $300 bucks?

Also remember it has the GPU and the latest Intel i7 CPU
 

tential

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I meant that you should gather prices that you can achieve. I know what the American prices are and can use a converter to get AUD. I don't know how much you can actually acquire those parts for though.

For what you're doing, you CERTAINLY don't need the build malstrom purchased. This is an enthusiast forum, so a lot of the time you get more than you need.
I'm going to break it down by parts to explain how each will effect your build:
CPU:
Believe it or not, we've made HUGE advancements in the CPU age. Thus, spending a lot on this part yields VERY diminishing returns. Many people here spend 300+ on this part and then overclock it (raise clock speeds) a lot. Most reviews however show VERY diminishing returns for this added clockspeed. In fact, it may only add between 1-5 frames per second in gaming, and 15-20 second faster encoding times. To the average user, these do not warrant the huge price increases.
Most users on here will recommend you builds for overclocking and well, for the egoboost people get for having the best thing out on the internet which for the most part is the majority of parts that mastrom listed. Given I understand what most users want who aren't huge PC enthusiasts here is what I recommend
Recommendation: i5-4670
It's faster than anything you've ever owned and isn't an overclocking part.
CPU Cooler: Stock. Trust me, you don't need to spend an extra 35 dollars on it. Use the one intel ships with their CPU.
Motherboard: Asus Z-87A
This is a decent board. You do NOT need a board that costs over $200 dollars. The returns again are LARGELY diminishing. What you're paying for when you pay $200+ for a motherboard is to squeeze overclocking of the CPU an extra 100-200mhz. Again, you'll see EXTREMLY diminishing returns on this.
Ram: This is where you need to spend some cash. Based on your needs, get 16 GB of ram. This should only cost you $120 dollars tops though in US prices.
Storage: You'll have to tell explain to me more about what you're animating. Are you doing video heavy animation? This requires you to know a little more about how large the files you're working with are because this is your expertise.
Case: This is a personal thing. You need to look around. I recommend Fractal Design Define R4, or a case like it. The case he recommended works well too.
VideoCard: Now that you've saved tons of money picking lots of parts less expensive you can spend money where it counts. Most reviews have proven that CPU means very little for gaming. Anandtech just did a review showing the % change in performance between top of the line CPUs and low end CPUs and it was negligible at best. You can save money and go with the HD 7850. Or you can spend more and go with the $7950.
Power Supply: Get something that is 500W. Pick from Corsair, OCZ, Evga, Coolermaster, (I may have missed a brand or two). Just use a reputable brand like those though and you'll be good.
Optical Drive: I didn't even purchase one, but you'll probably want one. Really just pick one with a lot of reviews and good ratings. It's an optical drive, pretty much everyone knows how to make them at this point.
OS: You need Windows. You can find a good deal usually. I'm sure you know how to purchase this.

I didn't list prices because I'm not from Australia and don't know the prices. I would NOT go with a lot of the parts picked in the mastrom build as the CPU and mobo are definitely not what you need given what you said. Those are for enthusiasts who get performance parts, even if they don't necessarily need it to have the fastest latest tech.

Edit: In short I don't mean to attack anyone's recommended build. There just isn't a review in the world that will support the CPU or Mobo choices given what you've asked. You don't overclock from what I understand so those choices are ridiculous for what you asked. You can get a cheaper faster processor in the i5-4670k given the fact that it's newer. There's no reason you should have to spend more than $1000 AUD. The build I listed, should be under $1000 and be better.
 

Wzyz

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Thank you very much! So you would recommend me to build with the specifications you listed?

 

tential

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Yes. You have choices to upgrade as well.
CPU recommendation: http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/gaming-cpu-review-overclock,3106-4.html
Toms hardware recommends the i5-3570k. But if you don't overclock the i5-3350P. However, it's a month old and new tech is now out so the i5-4670 is here. You could even step down to the i5-4750.

CPU speed: is important, but it will only increase performance so small that it's not worth the $150+ price increase.

Let me know how much you can find those parts for though in Aussie Land.
 

drtoast

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I couldnt agree more ( hopped in cos the birds are too damn noisy to sleep) most of those parts are overkill.

OP. Have you validated your Email? Cos your PM function isnt working, I'd be happy to give you a basics in building :p Just dont want to clog up the forum.

Back to bed after snacking :p I'll see if I cant design a rough build as well for the morning.
 

Wzyz

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yes i have validated my email
 

tential

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I have the i7-4770k haha so I know. As long as an almost equivalent mobo (slightly cheaper) to what was posted, so I know about overspending. I spent it because it was a graduation present. My build was $1060 so I KNOW you can do better than what was posted and I have the i7-4770k.

Part of the thing is shopping around. There are SO many rebates though you can get so much money back. These are the rebates I go:
$120 for the CPU/mobo combo back
$12 for Ram
$30 for the Video Card
$30 for the case
$30 the Power Supply
 

Wzyz

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Ok here's what I got so far:

Motherboard: ASUS Z87A Motherboard

Processor: Intel i5-4670 Core i5 Processor, 3.4GHz, LGA1150, Quad Core 4 Threads

From here: http://www.auspcmarket.com.au/intel-i5-4670-core-i5-processor-3-4ghz-lga1150-quad-core-4-threads/

Video card: AMD Radeon HD 7850 or AMD Radeon HD 7950

sounding good so far?
 

tential

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Price the system out and lemme know how much it comes to.

Don't forget a harddrive (I recommend a SSD Samsung 840 120 GB and then purchase HardDrives (non SSD) as needed for storage)

The PSU (500 Watts)

CD Drive

And look for a case that fits your needs and styling.
 

Wzyz

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Oh man this is so hard...can you just recommend specific components that I can just buy and build?
 

tential

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I can, but I'd recommend looking around to get the best deal haha. My prices are different than yours. A brand may be a good deal for me, but not for you dependent on shipping etc. I can give you recommendations as to what brands and specs to look for but giving you specific parts may cause you to spend a little extra if you aren't just trying to match criteria instead. Here is the Criteria:

The SSD I used is the Samsung 840. I recommend getting the 120GB and then adding additional HD space as you need it since you aren't sure how much space your stuff takes up (it won't be hard to add just slide it into the case and connect it to the mobo and BOOM more HD space).

PSU - I got the CoolerMaster Silent Pro M2. Really like I said, just find a 500W PSU in your budget from Corsair, CoolerMaster,

CD Drive - literally ANY will do. Again, just make sure it's from a reputable company. Hell, even if it isn't this is the cheapest part of your PC and the LEAST used part of it.(looking at newegg there are only like 6 manufacturers of this now so really you can't make a mistake)

Case - Fractal Design Define R4 is my choice. There are others though. BitFenix Prodigy, Corsair 550D, Antec P280

I strongly recommend though reading a couple reviews and learning a little. You're going into a field where you'll be heavily using PCs a lot. You should know about the device you're using as it will influence your work quite a bit. Any person doing work involving graphic design, coding, etc. should know about their tools. Similar to how a police officer would know how to take a part, clean a gun and use it, or a construction worker can tell you all about drills and which ones are the best for which job, you probably want to know what computer specs are important to your work. I can imagine it will help quite a bit when you get into the workforce.

The more ya know ya know? Last thing you want to do is blindly follow someone's instructions without knowing why!
 

Wzyz

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Haha damn, I was hoping to blindly follow someone's instructions. I guess it's because I'm impatient and want a good computer quick. OK I'll do my research and maybe come up with a good build and I'll post it here. Do I check for lowest prices on google or just stick to one company like newegg?
 

Wzyz

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Ok, haven't got the prices yet but heres what I got so far:

Processor:
Intel i5-4670 Core i5 Processor, 3.4GHz, LGA1150, Quad Core 4 Threads

Motherboard:
ASUS Z87A Motherboard

Memory:
Dominator® Platinum with Corsair Link Connector — 1.5V 16GB Dual Channel DDR3 Memory Kit (CMD16GX3M2A1866C10)

Graphics Card:
AMD Radeon™ HD 7850

Hard Drive:
ADATA S510 Series AS510S3-120GM-O 2.5" 120GB SATA III MLC Internal Solid State Drive (SSD) - OEM

Optical Drive:
??

Power supplies:
Corsair - TX Series™ TX750 — 80 PLUS® Bronze Certified 750 Watt High Performance Power Supply

Case:
Corsair Carbide Series 500R Arctic White Steel / Plastic ATX Mid Tower Gaming Case
Or
Corsair Obsidian Series 550D Black Aluminum / Steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case

CD drive:
ASUS 24X DVD Burner - Bulk 24X DVD+R 8X DVD+RW 12X DVD+R DL 24X DVD-R 6X DVD-RW 16X DVD-ROM 48X CD-R 32X CD-RW 48X CD-ROM Black SATA Model DRW-24B1ST/BLK/B/AS - OEM