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Asrock z87 OC Formula Release Date
- Thread starter Patrick Hines
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TheBigTroll
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they should come by july or so. but to be honest, there are cheaper boards that perform the same if not better such as the z87x-ud3h from gigabyte
- Jun 12, 2013
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I was going to take advantage of the watercooled sinks. The only other board that has active, silent cooling for those sinks is in the $400 range.
TheBigTroll
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you know that watercooling is totally unnecessary right? the vrms on the good boards from gigabyte, asus and asrock (only the boards above extreme6) already run ice cold
- Jun 12, 2013
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That is right knowledge, but only in a general sense. The devil is in the details.
Yes, in a typical situation, watercooling can be thought of as unnecessary. And good heat sinks providing thermal exchange with a standard air environment will dissipate heat at a sufficient rate. But the assumption there is the temperature differential between the VRM sinks and the ambient air temperature. This is typically regulated by actively moving air through the chassis, which I do not do. In my environment, the inner air temperature would build up causing a decrease in the performance of the VRM sinks, and every other non-watercooled component in my system. I do this for noise control. The only source of noise in my system is a single water pump located inside a large, external water reservoir / heat sink (Zalman Reserator). I have been running this way for a while, and have never heard, or rather *not* heard, a system that compares with this type of noise control. I can not tell without looking at the lights or monitors whether my system is on.
Overclocking is just a fringe benefit.
So my choices are to pull the VRM sinks and replace them with an aftermarket watercooler or buy a board with watercooled VRM sinks. I have only found 2 choices. Gigabyte has one (OC Force) but it is ~$400. Based on the Z77 prices, I am hoping the Asrock OC Formula has a much more attractive price point (<$250). Aftermarket watercoolers are still an option, but they will add around $150 to the price and mean I will have to pull the stock sinks and later replace them if I move the board to a non-watercooled system [I have 3 other desktops "downstream" that get my old parts].
Yes, in a typical situation, watercooling can be thought of as unnecessary. And good heat sinks providing thermal exchange with a standard air environment will dissipate heat at a sufficient rate. But the assumption there is the temperature differential between the VRM sinks and the ambient air temperature. This is typically regulated by actively moving air through the chassis, which I do not do. In my environment, the inner air temperature would build up causing a decrease in the performance of the VRM sinks, and every other non-watercooled component in my system. I do this for noise control. The only source of noise in my system is a single water pump located inside a large, external water reservoir / heat sink (Zalman Reserator). I have been running this way for a while, and have never heard, or rather *not* heard, a system that compares with this type of noise control. I can not tell without looking at the lights or monitors whether my system is on.
Overclocking is just a fringe benefit.
So my choices are to pull the VRM sinks and replace them with an aftermarket watercooler or buy a board with watercooled VRM sinks. I have only found 2 choices. Gigabyte has one (OC Force) but it is ~$400. Based on the Z77 prices, I am hoping the Asrock OC Formula has a much more attractive price point (<$250). Aftermarket watercoolers are still an option, but they will add around $150 to the price and mean I will have to pull the stock sinks and later replace them if I move the board to a non-watercooled system [I have 3 other desktops "downstream" that get my old parts].
TheBigTroll
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the IR powerstages are efficient enough so that the heatsinks are a unnecessary decoration. they are not your typical d-paks or lower rds mosfets where heatsinks are overbuilt. there is a reason that the heatsinks are rather small
PlanarX999
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- May 20, 2013
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Ultra Durable 5 plus is good and sufficient, no doubt, gigabyte have do a great job in Mobo, so i would recommend mobo with this feature. i agree with you, TheBig Troll that Z87 OC Formula could be overprice, but overclocking potential could make you feel dumbfounded, believe it. Plus Asrock really growing manafacture, IMO, they make OC formula resist water, as protection for who use water cooling.
TheBigTroll
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the water-resistance was mainly put in place so that LN2 guys dont have to worry as much for condensation to kill their board. for watercoolers, the effect is negligble as if somehow you have a unexpected leak, the water could be fine to the board but it will take out other components
PlanarX999
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- May 20, 2013
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Now, again you impress me with that answer, how can i miss that, other component could get damage, only if case manafacturer have make something lenovo Erazer X700 case, inverted, power supply at top so nothing can get wet except motherboard and case.
- Jun 12, 2013
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Again, those cooling systems are only sufficient if you are moving air through your case. I am not moving air through my case. Or, more exactly, The only air moving through my case is due to the fan on the power supply.
You have to have a strategy for getting heat from the heat generator to outside your house.
Typical:
generator -> heat sink : air in case -> case fan : air in room -> house air conditioner : outside of house
Mine:
generator -> waterblock : water -> reservoir heat sink : air in room -> house air conditioner : outside of house
I have no mechanism to get air in my case out of my case, and I'm not adding a case fan to do that. If the motherboard has heat sinks, I'm going to use water to move that heat outside the case. Now you may be right, they may just be eye candy. But I'm not going to take that risk. I see no high-end boards without large heat sinks. And I see Gigabyte and ASRock's overclocking boards both have watercooled VRM sinks. And if the difference in price between a "good" board and a leading manufacturer's best overclocking board with watercooled sinks is less than a tank of gas.... they why not get the high-end board?
I don't think you're wrong in your points, I just don't think you are giving adequate weight to the effect of not moving air through the case. That assessment is fueled by past experience and a stack of bricked hard drives. When you move to a fully water-cooled solution, you have to factor in a change in manufacturer's assumptions of a temperature differential between the component and the ambient air temperature, even for components that have no heat sink at all like hard drives.
You have to have a strategy for getting heat from the heat generator to outside your house.
Typical:
generator -> heat sink : air in case -> case fan : air in room -> house air conditioner : outside of house
Mine:
generator -> waterblock : water -> reservoir heat sink : air in room -> house air conditioner : outside of house
I have no mechanism to get air in my case out of my case, and I'm not adding a case fan to do that. If the motherboard has heat sinks, I'm going to use water to move that heat outside the case. Now you may be right, they may just be eye candy. But I'm not going to take that risk. I see no high-end boards without large heat sinks. And I see Gigabyte and ASRock's overclocking boards both have watercooled VRM sinks. And if the difference in price between a "good" board and a leading manufacturer's best overclocking board with watercooled sinks is less than a tank of gas.... they why not get the high-end board?
I don't think you're wrong in your points, I just don't think you are giving adequate weight to the effect of not moving air through the case. That assessment is fueled by past experience and a stack of bricked hard drives. When you move to a fully water-cooled solution, you have to factor in a change in manufacturer's assumptions of a temperature differential between the component and the ambient air temperature, even for components that have no heat sink at all like hard drives.
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I will agree that the coating is largely not needed. I always assumed a water leak would be end of life for affected components. However, seeing water dripping out of my cpu waterblock, rolling across my soundcard, then across my video card, and out of the case onto my carpet made me challenge that assumption. The only real damage was to my carpet, which got a blue stain from the corroded tubing dissolved in the water. The system didn't even power off (well, not until the CPU overheated).
I'm not saying you should expect this outcome. Just that, well, that was funny.
I'm not saying you should expect this outcome. Just that, well, that was funny.
TheBigTroll
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dude, i have no case fans and im running my noctua d14 passively. yet my even lower quality vrms found on the z77-v Lk does not even go hot
- Jun 12, 2013
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And that is great for you. I have found that my case heats up when I make assumptions. Like I said, you may be right. But at these price points, it is not worth the risk.
What case do you have? What components are installed where? What is the ambient temperature in your room? Do you have active air moving due to your power supply? If so, at what rate? What's the path of air flow? Do you have vents in the top of your case? How many obstructions do you have? How many heat-generating components other than motherboard, powersupply, processor, video card do you have? What speed are you running your processor? What processor? What video card? What video card will you be running before the z87 solution hits end of life? Do you have Nest thermostats that detect when no one is home and raises the room ambient temperature up to 80 degrees max while the system is running at peak workload?
You're trying to make it simple, but it is not as simple as you make it out to be. And your advice to me is to risk this to save about $80 on an $800 upgrade. It is just not worth it.
What case do you have? What components are installed where? What is the ambient temperature in your room? Do you have active air moving due to your power supply? If so, at what rate? What's the path of air flow? Do you have vents in the top of your case? How many obstructions do you have? How many heat-generating components other than motherboard, powersupply, processor, video card do you have? What speed are you running your processor? What processor? What video card? What video card will you be running before the z87 solution hits end of life? Do you have Nest thermostats that detect when no one is home and raises the room ambient temperature up to 80 degrees max while the system is running at peak workload?
You're trying to make it simple, but it is not as simple as you make it out to be. And your advice to me is to risk this to save about $80 on an $800 upgrade. It is just not worth it.
TheBigTroll
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there is zero risk. thinking that a vrm will overheat is your last priority because ALL manufacturers no matter how crappy will have vrms that can run without external cooling.
if a reviewer can run a gigabyte board in a incubation chamber with external liquid cooling and the board vrms measure a little over 5c higher than the incubation chamber, you are seriously doing something wrong about thinking a vrm can overheat
if a reviewer can run a gigabyte board in a incubation chamber with external liquid cooling and the board vrms measure a little over 5c higher than the incubation chamber, you are seriously doing something wrong about thinking a vrm can overheat
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TheBigTroll
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I'm interested in reading it. I tried searching for key phrases and came up empty. Are you sure it was a Gigabyte board? If so, was it a Z87?
TheBigTroll
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its a gigabyte board alright. no one else uses IR3550 or 3553 powerstages. i can show you some of their z77 boards however. they use the same vrms anyways
this is their z77x-up5 TH. it uses a true 8 phase IR3550 vrm assembly. the z87x-ud3h uses the IR 3353 stages instead. the only difference is that the 3550 is rated for 60A while the 3553 is rated at 40A. both of which are ridiculous
http://hardocp.com/article/2013/06/11/gigabyte_z77xup5th_lga_1155_motherboard_review/7
this is their z77x-up5 TH. it uses a true 8 phase IR3550 vrm assembly. the z87x-ud3h uses the IR 3353 stages instead. the only difference is that the 3550 is rated for 60A while the 3553 is rated at 40A. both of which are ridiculous
http://hardocp.com/article/2013/06/11/gigabyte_z77xup5th_lga_1155_motherboard_review/7
endeavour37a
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- Feb 25, 2013
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ASUS Formula has WCed VRMs, don't know the price but the Extreme is $400, so it should be cheaper..
http://www.dvhardware.net/article58549.html
http://www.dvhardware.net/article58549.html
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Troll: The "incubation" test sounds interesting. Ultimately I don't think it well-informs my situation. I've basically got a very poor "incubator" (using hardocp's definition) with a watercooler external to the incubator. So their incubator is a runaway thermal situation until you get to extreme temperatures. Would be interesting to see them pull the watercooler radiator outside that and see what happens.
I'm also not a fan of their terminology. An incubator, at least my understanding of one, is a life-sustaining environment. You are talking constant temperature, humidity, condition x, .... They do tend to be maintained very hot though, which is probably how it got adopted as the term for this type of testing.
My concern is that, while the VRMs will not overheat, they may contribute to raising the ambient chassis temperature in a non-trivial way due to lack of airflow. Hard to make a good decision without good data, and I haven't yet seen good data. In the absence of good data, I prefer to spend a little extra and be on the safe side.
I'm also not a fan of their terminology. An incubator, at least my understanding of one, is a life-sustaining environment. You are talking constant temperature, humidity, condition x, .... They do tend to be maintained very hot though, which is probably how it got adopted as the term for this type of testing.
My concern is that, while the VRMs will not overheat, they may contribute to raising the ambient chassis temperature in a non-trivial way due to lack of airflow. Hard to make a good decision without good data, and I haven't yet seen good data. In the absence of good data, I prefer to spend a little extra and be on the safe side.
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I saw that, but it doesn't seem to have hit the street yet either. I have had bad luck with Asus in the past, but willing to give them another try. It will probably come down to availability and price.
TheBigTroll
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the incubator is basically a box where they turn up the heat to around the 38-40c mark. completely un-realistically high ambient temperatures.
no. thinking the vrms are going to raise your ambient chassis temps is just plain wrong. at that rate, you would think hard drives can cause your overclocking to be reduced since they put out heat into the chassis. VRM temperature is the LAST THING anyone would consider for how well your system overclocks
endeavour37a
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- Feb 25, 2013
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FrozenCPU has a lot of cool stuff 
Perhaps check here, then search the manufactures listed that make these things. EK has a VRM block for an ASUS Gene.
http://www.frozencpu.com/cat/l3/g30/c293/s728/list/p1/Liquid_Cooling-Water_Block_Mosfet_Volt_Reg-Volt_RegMosfet_Blocks-Page1.html
Just trying to help a bit find something that may work for you... hope you get it put together
Perhaps check here, then search the manufactures listed that make these things. EK has a VRM block for an ASUS Gene.http://www.frozencpu.com/cat/l3/g30/c293/s728/list/p1/Liquid_Cooling-Water_Block_Mosfet_Volt_Reg-Volt_RegMosfet_Blocks-Page1.html
Just trying to help a bit find something that may work for you... hope you get it put together
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I appreciate it endeavour. I'll probably wait until someone does a good test with lower price boards and can verify Troll's assertions or wait until there's a good waterblock solution on the market.
Troll: You are claiming that with no air flow and using air to cool the VRMs that the air will not heat up, at least that is my understanding of your claim. If that be your claim, it contradicts everything I have been taught about thermodynamics (assuming the ambient air is cooler than the VRM). I agree that "no air flow" is an unrealistic ideal, but I'm just saying I require evidence, and I can find none. I can find lots of weak evidence to support significant heat generation in the form of 3 leading manufacturers making an OC version of their Z87 board with waterblocks on the VRM and chipset (I wish the Asrock had a heatpipe...). I'm not saying you are wrong, just that the presented evidence is not convincing. Without convincing evidence, I'll get a waterblock solution and not worry about it.
Troll: You are claiming that with no air flow and using air to cool the VRMs that the air will not heat up, at least that is my understanding of your claim. If that be your claim, it contradicts everything I have been taught about thermodynamics (assuming the ambient air is cooler than the VRM). I agree that "no air flow" is an unrealistic ideal, but I'm just saying I require evidence, and I can find none. I can find lots of weak evidence to support significant heat generation in the form of 3 leading manufacturers making an OC version of their Z87 board with waterblocks on the VRM and chipset (I wish the Asrock had a heatpipe...). I'm not saying you are wrong, just that the presented evidence is not convincing. Without convincing evidence, I'll get a waterblock solution and not worry about it.
endeavour37a
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Well I don't really think VRM's generate that much heat, but they do heat up never the less. Anything with amperage moving through it that has resistance produces wattage depending on the voltage, the old laws of electrons thing.
But, if you want to WC the MOSFETs then great, or the new digital stuff I guess. I would if I could find a easy inexpensive set up, if you already have WC then a bit of tube and a couple fittings is all you need and it would look nice. My only concern is flow restriction of such a small block. But the PCH blocks do not look as clean as the stock iron with the pretty logos and such. First look at the MSI MPOWER and it looked to be WCed power with the large flat heatsink, looks nice though.
Someone said your hard drive produces more heat, I must agree with that, the faster they spin the toaster they get, yet the whole frame is more or less a heat spreader like the CPU.
Read about someone submerging the whole thing in mineral oil then cooling the oil in a radiator, a bit messy but would be real quite if you dropped the radiator in a 5 gallon bucket of ice water then just added ice every once and a while. Just thought it was a novel approach.....
But, if you want to WC the MOSFETs then great, or the new digital stuff I guess. I would if I could find a easy inexpensive set up, if you already have WC then a bit of tube and a couple fittings is all you need and it would look nice. My only concern is flow restriction of such a small block. But the PCH blocks do not look as clean as the stock iron with the pretty logos and such. First look at the MSI MPOWER and it looked to be WCed power with the large flat heatsink, looks nice though.
Someone said your hard drive produces more heat, I must agree with that, the faster they spin the toaster they get, yet the whole frame is more or less a heat spreader like the CPU.
Read about someone submerging the whole thing in mineral oil then cooling the oil in a radiator, a bit messy but would be real quite if you dropped the radiator in a 5 gallon bucket of ice water then just added ice every once and a while. Just thought it was a novel approach.....
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