Review before I purchase- 1500$ Haswell Gaming PC

Geometry · Jun 14, 2013

So I am about to purchase the parts needed for my new build and I would like any last-minute suggestions on any tweaks or alterations. Here is my configuration:

PCPartPicker part list: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/16uUv
Price breakdown by merchant: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/16uUv/by_merchant/
Benchmarks: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/16uUv/benchmarks/

CPU: Intel Core i7-4770K 3.5GHz Quad-Core Processor ($349.99 @ Newegg)
CPU Cooler: Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO 82.9 CFM Sleeve Bearing CPU Cooler ($33.24 @ Amazon)
Thermal Compound: Gelid Solutions GC-Extreme 3.5g Thermal Paste ($12.99 @ Newegg)
Motherboard: ASRock Z87 Extreme6 ATX LGA1150 Motherboard ($181.13 @ Newegg)
Memory: Crucial Ballistix Sport 8GB (1 x 8GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($49.98 @ Outlet PC)
Storage: Samsung 840 Series 120GB 2.5" Solid State Disk ($99.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Seagate Barracuda 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($59.98 @ Outlet PC)
Video Card: MSI GeForce GTX 770 2GB Video Card ($454.98 @ SuperBiiz)
Case: NZXT Phantom (White/Red) ATX Full Tower Case ($119.99 @ Newegg)
Power Supply: Antec EarthWatts Green 650W 80 PLUS Bronze Certified ATX12V Power Supply ($69.99 @ Amazon)
Optical Drive: Lite-On iHAS124-04 DVD/CD Writer ($14.99 @ Newegg)
Total: $1427.25
(Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available.)
(Generated by PCPartPicker 2013-06-14 21:58 EDT-0400)

I am planning to overclock to about 4.4 GHz, but I don't know how to yet. I will also be running this system 24/7 for the most part and I will be using it for heavy gaming, some rendering, and some editing. I want this system be able to handle all the newest games for a minimum of 4 years before I have to get a new one. I already have a monitor (1920x1080) and a copy of windows 7 64 bit ready as well. I am purchasing the parts today. Please give me any suggestions as to what to tweak, add, or remove. I can spend up to 1500$ on this build , but I would like to keep the price low. Thanks

DarkSable · Jun 14, 2013

1) Don't buy an i7. The only difference between it and an i5 is that the i7 has hyperthreading, which games can't make use of.

2) You might not be able to hit 4.4 GHz even if you had custom watercooling. Haswell does NOT overclock well, and is very unreliable in terms of what overclock you're going to be able to hit. (See below.)

3) Other than that, it looks good. I would go with an i5-3570k and an AsRock z77 Extreme 4 and use the savings to upgrade to a 780.

If you consider the fact that Ivy Bridge overclocks so much better that it's usually the faster chip, you pretty much have your answer.

Here's Tom's Hardware.

Our first-hand information involves a high double-digit number of processors, including samples and final shipping boxed CPUs. Sort testing was limited to 1.2 V to keep heat manageable. Ring/cache ratios are pegged at 3.9 GHz, with the memory controller operating at 1,333 MT/s. Of the chips available for sorting, only one is stable at 4.6 GHz under full load. A few are capable of operating at 4.5 GHz. More run stably at 4.4 GHz. Most are solid at 4.3 GHz and down. As you stretch above a 1,600 MT/s memory data rate or a ring ratio to match your highest single-core Turbo Boost ratio (which helps maximize performance), your top stable core frequency tends to drop.

Overclockers.com guide to Haswell

The first thing you need to know about Haswell you already found out in our review (read it here if you haven’t already) – it runs hot. You will need a lot more than the stock cooler if you want to overclock. With a very good air cooler or all-in-one water cooler, you’re looking at a heat limited voltage cap of about 1.25 V. At that voltage with air or AIO cooling, you’ll be seeing temperatures in the upper 80′s to lower 90′s (°C) range under normal full processor load.

Tech Report's Review

Asus has tested hundreds of Haswell CPUs as part of its effort to profile the chip for auto-tuning algorithms. According to the motherboard maker, Intel's new hotness has a little less overclocking headroom than Ivy Bridge does. Perhaps more importantly, Haswell apparently has more variance from chip to chip, especially in the voltages necessary to hit specific speeds.

RandomSauce22 · Jun 14, 2013

I agree with DarkSable; go with an i5-3570k (you would also need a z77 motherboard instead of z78). The GTX 770 is fine and if you wouldn't mind going with AMD for graphics, a 7970 would be great: it's cheaper, nearly equal in terms of performance and comes with 4 free games.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814202001

DarkSable · Jun 14, 2013

RandomSauce22 :

I agree with you up till you say the 7970 is nearly equal in performance - it's not, by a fair bit; the 770 is considerably faster than the 680 which roughly ties (is a little behind) the 7970.

RandomSauce22 · Jun 14, 2013

DarkSable :

Comparison of the two cards:
http://www.game-debate.com/gpu/index.php?gid=1117&gid2=881&compare=radeon-hd-7970-ghz-vapor-x-3gb-vs-geforce-gtx-770

In a new build in the near future I will have either a 7970 GHz edition or a 770 and am completely torn between the two. The 770 is a fair bit faster, but not a crazy amount faster. The 7970 is cheaper, comparable in speed, and comes with 4 free games. Seems to be a bit of an Nvidia vs AMD thing more than anything else, at least in my opinion.

Geometry · Jun 14, 2013

DarkSable :

1) Don't buy an i7. The only difference between it and an i5 is that the i7 has hyperthreading, which games can't make use of.

2) You might not be able to hit 4.4 GHz even if you had custom watercooling. Haswell does NOT overclock well, and is very unreliable in terms of what overclock you're going to be able to hit. (See below.)

3) Other than that, it looks good. I would go with an i5-3570k and an AsRock z77 Extreme 4 and use the savings to upgrade to a 780.

If you consider the fact that Ivy Bridge overclocks so much better that it's usually the faster chip, you pretty much have your answer.

Here's Tom's Hardware.

Our first-hand information involves a high double-digit number of processors, including samples and final shipping boxed CPUs. Sort testing was limited to 1.2 V to keep heat manageable. Ring/cache ratios are pegged at 3.9 GHz, with the memory controller operating at 1,333 MT/s. Of the chips available for sorting, only one is stable at 4.6 GHz under full load. A few are capable of operating at 4.5 GHz. More run stably at 4.4 GHz. Most are solid at 4.3 GHz and down. As you stretch above a 1,600 MT/s memory data rate or a ring ratio to match your highest single-core Turbo Boost ratio (which helps maximize performance), your top stable core frequency tends to drop.

Overclockers.com guide to Haswell

The first thing you need to know about Haswell you already found out in our review (read it here if you haven’t already) – it runs hot. You will need a lot more than the stock cooler if you want to overclock. With a very good air cooler or all-in-one water cooler, you’re looking at a heat limited voltage cap of about 1.25 V. At that voltage with air or AIO cooling, you’ll be seeing temperatures in the upper 80′s to lower 90′s (°C) range under normal full processor load.

Tech Report's Review

Asus has tested hundreds of Haswell CPUs as part of its effort to profile the chip for auto-tuning algorithms. According to the motherboard maker, Intel's new hotness has a little less overclocking headroom than Ivy Bridge does. Perhaps more importantly, Haswell apparently has more variance from chip to chip, especially in the voltages necessary to hit specific speeds.

How much is the difference between the 770 and the 780? I want this system to be able to run games at max settings for atleast 4 years. And if I get a 3570k , what's the highest stable clock I can get? Keep in mind I will be using this daily and it will be on 24/7. Would I also need to get a better CPU cooler in that case as well?

Geometry · Jun 14, 2013

RandomSauce22 :

DarkSable :

Comparison of the two cards:
http://www.game-debate.com/gpu/index.php?gid=1117&gid2=881&compare=radeon-hd-7970-ghz-vapor-x-3gb-vs-geforce-gtx-770

In a new build in the near future I will have either a 7970 GHz edition or a 770 and am completely torn between the two. The 770 is a fair bit faster, but not a crazy amount faster. The 7970 is cheaper, comparable in speed, and comes with 4 free games. Seems to be a bit of an Nvidia vs AMD thing more than anything else, at least in my opinion.

Btw, I am planning to get the 4gb version of the 770. And I would assume that since the 7970 is almost a year old, the 770 would perform better.

RandomSauce22 · Jun 14, 2013

I've heard of people who've gotten 4.5 GHz stable with max temps under 70C out of an 3570k with a hyper 212 evo, but YMMV. If you wanted a more powerful CPU cooler, I'd recommend a Noctua DH-N14, but bear in mind that cooler is absolutely huge. Personally, I'd stick with the 212 evo; it's a powerful cooler at a more than reasonable price.

Geometry · Jun 14, 2013

RandomSauce22 :

If I got something like the corsair H60 or better, could I expect better results in terms of overclocking ability?

DarkSable · Jun 14, 2013

You're on a 1080p screen, correct? 4GB of VRAM gets you nothing. The 780 is $650, and is essentially a slightly-slower titan.

A 3570k can quite easily get very good clocks with an EVO - just change out the stock fan for a very good one, and you're set.

By the way, random, that comparison means absolutely nothing - you can't just compare the specs of cards that are made entirely differently and claim that one is better - the ONLY way you can tell is through thorough benchmarks.

Geometry · Jun 14, 2013

DarkSable :

So how big is the difference between the two? I just wanna run the latest games at the max possible settings so I don't know how much of a performance increase I would see since I thought the 770 could do that. I am also running on a 1080p monitor, correct. And my questions here is, if I get something better than the evo , say a Corsiar h60 (liquid-cooled), could I expect to be able to overclock the 3570k to something like 4.6 or even 4.8?

DarkSable · Jun 15, 2013

A 2GB 770 would get you ultra settings, not max, A 3GB 780 will max out anything. (A 4GB 770 is no better than a 2GB.)

I avoid prefabricated "liquid cooling" like the plague - they're unreliable and cool no better than a good air cooler. That Corsair h60 will perform worse than a Noctua -D14, for example. The Hyper 212 EVO with an aftermarket fan like the Corsair SP 120 High Performance will get you far. You can get 4.6 with that or a -D14. To get all the way to 4.8 and the voltage that entails, you'd want custom watercooling, which actually is better than air cooling.

Geometry · Jun 15, 2013

DarkSable :

I think I would be better off with a 770 as I don't feel comfortable spending 650$ on a graphics card alone. Also , why wouldn't I benefit from having 4gb instead of 2gb? And I also plan to do some editing and stuff so do you think I would be better off with a 3770k in that case? Do you think I should add anything else?

Here is my new configuration:

PCPartPicker part list: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/16y35
Price breakdown by merchant: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/16y35/by_merchant/
Benchmarks: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/16y35/benchmarks/

CPU: Intel Core i5-3570K 3.4GHz Quad-Core Processor ($209.99 @ Amazon)
CPU Cooler: Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO 82.9 CFM Sleeve Bearing CPU Cooler ($33.24 @ Amazon)
Thermal Compound: Gelid Solutions GC-Extreme 3.5g Thermal Paste ($12.99 @ Newegg)
Motherboard: ASRock Z77 Extreme4 ATX LGA1155 Motherboard ($134.99 @ Amazon)
Memory: Crucial Ballistix Sport 8GB (1 x 8GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($49.98 @ Outlet PC)
Storage: Samsung 840 Series 120GB 2.5" Solid State Disk ($94.99 @ NCIX US)
Storage: Seagate Barracuda 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($59.98 @ Outlet PC)
Video Card: MSI GeForce GTX 770 2GB Video Card ($454.98 @ SuperBiiz)
Case: NZXT Phantom (White/Red) ATX Full Tower Case ($119.99 @ Newegg)
Power Supply: Antec EarthWatts Green 650W 80 PLUS Bronze Certified ATX12V Power Supply ($69.99 @ Amazon)
Optical Drive: Lite-On iHAS124-04 DVD/CD Writer ($14.99 @ Newegg)
Total: $1256.11
(Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available.)
(Generated by PCPartPicker 2013-06-15 00:37 EDT-0400)

DarkSable · Jun 15, 2013

Because 4GB means you have 4GB of VRAM. All that does is store the image before it gets sent to the monitor. If you have three screens, it's good, because the image is three times as big. On a single screen, 2GB is PLENTY.

As for editing, the ONLY time the speed boost from the i7's hyperthreading is useful is if you edit often enough, and get paid for it, to warrant the $100 investment. All it does is cut time spent down a little - an i5 is still going to shred though editing projects with ease.

That build looks very good - only thing I would do is drop the thermal paste. It only gives you a few degrees advantage over what comes with the EVO. (Cooler master gives you good stuff with their coolers.)

EDIT: And I just noticed - you want two 4GB sticks of ram, not one 8GB stick. Makes a big speed difference because you can run them in dual channel.

Geometry · Jun 15, 2013

DarkSable :

I actually plan on having multiple monitors down the road so paying an extra 50$ wouldn't really bother me for that extra 2gb. Also, as you suggested, I am going with the 3570k ( You saved me 100$

). As for the RAM, I actually get a free 8gb stick with the Motherboard; pretty sweet if you ask me. So I will have 2 8gb sticks and both are the same ones just in case you were wondering. I will also drop the thermal paste in that case. I have already ordered the case, cooler, ram, ssd, hdd, dvd drive, and case fan.Also, is there anything else worthwhile that I could spend that extra 250$ on? I may consider the 780, but I'm not sure if I'm ready to whip out nearly 700$ on a GPU. I am about to purchase the mobo and cpu after you reply to this so I can make sure everything is good. Thanks

DarkSable · Jun 15, 2013

Do you plan on GAMING on multiple monitors, or just using them as extras? If they're just extras, then don't bother - they don't tax the GPU at all. In that case, go ahead and go with it, that works just fine.

The GPU and CPU are great, and I know it's a lot of money, but I do recommend the 780. It overclocks like a beast, is incredibly powerful, and is the only GK110 chip that costs less than $100. The performance upgrade over the 770 is significant.

Geometry · Jun 15, 2013

DarkSable :

I am mostly going to be using them as extra's and I am going with the 770 4gb. Anyways, thanks for all your help man!

DarkSable · Jun 15, 2013

Okay, your prerogative.

I'm glad I could help a little, and I hope you like your new computer!

Review before I purchase- 1500$ Haswell Gaming PC

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