Nailing down system instability
Last response: in Components
brafu
June 17, 2013 7:03:54 PM
Ok, I have a new build that's giving me a lot of headaches and I just can't seem to nail the issue down. At this point I'm just tired of trying to resolve this because I lack the knowledge and experience to properly figure this out.
How do I go about testing each piece of hardware in order to figure out where my issue resides?
I have already run OCCT, Prime95, and Intel's extreme tuning utility to stress test various elements of my PC, but all passed. Also ran Windows Memory testing utility and the RAM passed.
If more detailed info is desired I'll post it, but it's a long story lol
How do I go about testing each piece of hardware in order to figure out where my issue resides?
I have already run OCCT, Prime95, and Intel's extreme tuning utility to stress test various elements of my PC, but all passed. Also ran Windows Memory testing utility and the RAM passed.
If more detailed info is desired I'll post it, but it's a long story lol
More about : nailing system instability
moulderhere
June 17, 2013 7:09:30 PM
brafu
June 17, 2013 7:15:35 PM
moulderhere said:
Ran hard drive diagnostics????You've got latest drivers on your hard ware?
I have the latest drivers and a hard drive issue seems remote considering the issue.
The issue?
My PC is freezing during games, requiring a hard reboot. During normal use (ie. anything non-gaming) I have no problem at all. I have gone through a lot of testing (especially for heat issues) and at this point I'm down to wanting to test each piece of hardware to make sure they are all fine and that it's not a faulty component (the PC is about 2 weeks old).
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scout_03
June 17, 2013 7:28:38 PM
but the hhd could have bad sector or your psu let you down when it need more power give us all the model and name of the parts you have and try this to see if there is any minidump files to read in the system http://www.resplendence.com/whocrashed
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brafu
June 17, 2013 8:02:04 PM
i5-3570k (stock fan, no OC... in fact I even underclocked and still had issues)
Intel H 4000
ASRock Z75 Pro3
Crucial Ballistix Tactical Tracer 4GB (2 x 2GB)
CORSAIR CX430M 430W ATX12V v2.3 80 PLUS BRONZE
old 80gb drive I had in an 07 desktop (plan on replacing it soon)
From my understanding my PSU should have absolutely no issues powering all of that (which is the extent of what I have atm), so long as it's not faulty. The drive might be an issue, but I would expect the freezing issue to also effect normal operations, or other programs.
The only way I was able to reproduce the freezing I experienced in multiple games (ME1/ME2/ME3/SC2) was to run OCCT (GPU test) at the same time Intel's CPU stress testing software was running. The combination of CPU/iGPU load was enough to cause a freeze. Heat would be my first guess (and it was), but I have watched it freeze up anywhere from 60-75c more than once during such a test... yet when I ran Prime95 for almost 50 min the average temp was 70-75c (spiked up to 80c a few times) and there was not so much as a hiccup.
I'm aware that's not even close to ideal temp, and I plan on fixing the problem soon. But from all my research that temp, while not ideal, shouldn't be enough to cause the CPU to shutdown to protect itself. FYI, idle and normal use is around 30-35c.
Intel H 4000
ASRock Z75 Pro3
Crucial Ballistix Tactical Tracer 4GB (2 x 2GB)
CORSAIR CX430M 430W ATX12V v2.3 80 PLUS BRONZE
old 80gb drive I had in an 07 desktop (plan on replacing it soon)
From my understanding my PSU should have absolutely no issues powering all of that (which is the extent of what I have atm), so long as it's not faulty. The drive might be an issue, but I would expect the freezing issue to also effect normal operations, or other programs.
The only way I was able to reproduce the freezing I experienced in multiple games (ME1/ME2/ME3/SC2) was to run OCCT (GPU test) at the same time Intel's CPU stress testing software was running. The combination of CPU/iGPU load was enough to cause a freeze. Heat would be my first guess (and it was), but I have watched it freeze up anywhere from 60-75c more than once during such a test... yet when I ran Prime95 for almost 50 min the average temp was 70-75c (spiked up to 80c a few times) and there was not so much as a hiccup.
I'm aware that's not even close to ideal temp, and I plan on fixing the problem soon. But from all my research that temp, while not ideal, shouldn't be enough to cause the CPU to shutdown to protect itself. FYI, idle and normal use is around 30-35c.
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scout_03
June 17, 2013 8:05:15 PM
brafu
June 17, 2013 8:09:05 PM
scout_03 said:
it could be that your psu could not handle all the power you ask from it running the cpu stress and the occt at the same time .Then that would have to mean it's a faulty PSU, right? Because there's no way my system should be drawing enough power to tax that PSU with just the MB, CPU, HDD, and RAM. I don't even have a GPU yet.
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scout_03
June 17, 2013 8:12:40 PM
brafu
June 17, 2013 8:19:00 PM
scout_03
June 17, 2013 8:22:57 PM
brafu
June 17, 2013 8:27:00 PM
scout_03
June 17, 2013 8:35:25 PM
brafu
June 17, 2013 8:37:50 PM
scout_03 said:
try to borrow a bigger psu and redo the stress test you made and if the same thing happens then there is another component that made this .I don't believe it'll be possible to borrow another PSU (or any other component), but I'll see if the PSU from the old desktop will work for a test (probably too old though).
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scout_03
June 17, 2013 8:42:52 PM
brafu
June 17, 2013 9:45:59 PM
brafu
June 17, 2013 10:49:44 PM
I just had another freeze and reboot (rebooted on its own this time) while playing ME1 in window mode while I watched the various sensors. The CPU and GPU were drawing around 30W's or so combined (if the sensors are correct), and the temp was around 50c. The GPU wasn't even really being used at that particular moment (at-least not much) and yet I still had a freeze.
I wonder if throwing the entire PC in the trash and starting over would be an overreaction? =P
I wonder if throwing the entire PC in the trash and starting over would be an overreaction? =P
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scout_03
June 18, 2013 6:31:05 PM
brafu
June 18, 2013 9:21:31 PM
scout_03 said:
did you check both memory stick with memtest on at the time ?I ran memtest overnight for a total of about 8 passes and no errors were detected (had both sticks in).
So far today I have been busy with putting in the 2.5 HDD from a netbook I have (has a broken screen, but otherwise fine) and removed the old 80gb HDD. I'm in the process of installing some must have app's and then I'll install a game and see what happens.
Right now I'm leaning towards it being a HDD issue because yesterday the computer froze up when I was opening steam, so that expanded the possible causes. Hopefully this other HDD will resolve the issue.
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brafu
June 19, 2013 12:36:38 PM
Well, crapped out on it being a HDD issue since I got yet another freeze while playing a game. I'm going to retest my RAM and then stress test the CPU and GPU separately, and then together. Figure I'll spend the day letting those run and see what happens.
EDIT::
The more I think about it the more I think that it really might be my PSU since it seems like the only thing that makes sense now, at-least so far. Without having another PSU to use, or any tools for testing voltage and such, what's the best way to tell if it's a faulty PSU? I'm going to attempt to draw as much power as I can and see what happens, but if anyone has any advice I would appreciate it greatly.
EDIT::
The more I think about it the more I think that it really might be my PSU since it seems like the only thing that makes sense now, at-least so far. Without having another PSU to use, or any tools for testing voltage and such, what's the best way to tell if it's a faulty PSU? I'm going to attempt to draw as much power as I can and see what happens, but if anyone has any advice I would appreciate it greatly.
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brafu
June 19, 2013 5:13:34 PM
Ok, I'm pretty sure it's a faulty PSU because the only way I can reproduce the freeze is when I put the CPU and GPU underload at the same time. I can stress one or the other (or one of those and RAM) and I'm fine, but once I combine the two I get a freeze in under 30 sec most of the time.
I have been using OCCT's PSU test to help me figure this out, and so far a faulty PSU seems the most logical culprit. So I'm going to try and get a RMA from Corsair and get a replacement.
Thanks for the help and advice.
I have been using OCCT's PSU test to help me figure this out, and so far a faulty PSU seems the most logical culprit. So I'm going to try and get a RMA from Corsair and get a replacement.
Thanks for the help and advice.
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scout_03
June 19, 2013 7:28:29 PM
GhislainG
June 19, 2013 7:47:11 PM
You wrote "The only way I was able to reproduce the freezing I experienced in multiple games (ME1/ME2/ME3/SC2) was to run OCCT (GPU test) at the same time Intel's CPU stress testing software was running. The combination of CPU/iGPU load was enough to cause a freeze." You're now convinced the PSU is faulty, but the problem probably is the IGPU that gets too hot. Using a better cooler or a graphics card would most likely resolve your issue.
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brafu
June 19, 2013 8:32:16 PM
GhislainG said:
You wrote "The only way I was able to reproduce the freezing I experienced in multiple games (ME1/ME2/ME3/SC2) was to run OCCT (GPU test) at the same time Intel's CPU stress testing software was running. The combination of CPU/iGPU load was enough to cause a freeze." You're now convinced the PSU is faulty, but the problem probably is the IGPU that gets too hot. Using a better cooler or a graphics card would most likely resolve your issue. I thought heat was the issue at first, but after monitoring temps I'm convinced that's not the issue. Most of the freezes I have reproduced have been when my CPU has been around 60-70c (with and without the Turbo OC), so I really don't think it's a heat issue at this point. Plus I have stress tested just the GPU a good deal and it's never froze up during those tests.
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GhislainG
June 20, 2013 5:26:03 AM
How are you monitoring the IGPU temperature to make sure it's fine when both the CPU and IGPU are under stress? I doubt a 430W PSU would have issues providing power to that system, but it's possible if there's an issue with it. What's your next step if replacing the PSU doesn't help? Will you RMA the CPU or install a better cooler or a video card?
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moulderhere
June 20, 2013 7:33:37 AM
GhislainG
June 20, 2013 8:16:19 AM
brafu
June 20, 2013 10:05:29 AM
GhislainG said:
How are you monitoring the IGPU temperature to make sure it's fine when both the CPU and IGPU are under stress? I doubt a 430W PSU would have issues providing power to that system, but it's possible if there's an issue with it. What's your next step if replacing the PSU doesn't help? Will you RMA the CPU or install a better cooler or a video card?The only thing I can do is go where the evidence points, and right now it seems to point towards a faulty PSU and not the CPU/iGPU. I seem to be pretty much out of options in as far as trying to diagnose this because I don't have a spare PSU, nor do I have a GPU to stick in it at the moment.
AS far as what I'll do if replacing the PSU doesn't help... I don't know, but I'll cross that bridge when I come to it.
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GhislainG
June 20, 2013 10:17:25 AM
brafu
June 20, 2013 10:35:27 AM
GhislainG said:
Good luck and let us know the outcome. Resolving issues without spare parts always is challenging. Can't you borrow a PSU from a friend or an IT person? Thanks, and no. None of my friends (local ones at-least) are even remotely as interested in computers as I am, so at most all they have is their one and only computer. I tried to see if a PSU from one of my old desktops might work, but it's an old Dell Dimension 3100 made back in 07/08 and it doesn't have the right 12v power connector for my MB.
EDIT::
But I can say that this has been a learning experience, and one I wish I didn't have to deal with on my first build! lol
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moulderhere
June 20, 2013 10:51:24 AM
brafu
June 20, 2013 11:24:48 AM
brafu
June 21, 2013 8:42:05 PM
Ok, so I found a multitester that I forgot I had, so I was wondering if anyone could give me some info on how to properly test my PSU to see if there's anything obvious wrong with it that would be causing my problems. I really have no experience in testing electronics like this so the more detailed the better.
On a side note:
I did contact Corsair and got an RMA authorized, but before I spend the $10-20 shipping it back to them I would like to test it and see if it's really faulty so I can put my mind at ease.
On a side note:
I did contact Corsair and got an RMA authorized, but before I spend the $10-20 shipping it back to them I would like to test it and see if it's really faulty so I can put my mind at ease.
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scout_03
June 21, 2013 8:46:54 PM
brafu
June 21, 2013 8:58:30 PM
scout_03 said:
if you have the rma approve send it back it will be the best thing to do .Well, if I was totally sure the PSU was the problem, then yea I would agree with you. But right now I'm not totally sure, plus I wont be sending it back till Monday anyway so I figured I'll test it and see what I find.
My biggest worry is that I send it back and get a replacement, only to find out that it wasn't the problem and now I need to think of something else.
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scout_03
June 21, 2013 9:08:13 PM
the pin out of the connector http://pinouts.ru/Power/atxpower_pinout.shtml try to not dismont the pins from the 24 pins connector use the probe of your voltmeter from the top part of the plug or you could void your warranty .
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brafu
June 21, 2013 9:55:10 PM
scout_03 said:
the pin out of the connector http://pinouts.ru/Power/atxpower_pinout.shtml try to not dismont the pins from the 24 pins connector use the probe of your voltmeter from the top part of the plug or you could void your warranty .I found a youtube video that did a walkthrough on how to test it, but since I couldn't actually put the PSU underload by connecting a fan I couldn't get anywhere. I'm not going to keep trying since I don't want to break anything and, as you pointed out, void my warranty.
I'm just going to go through with the RMA and hope for the best. It truly seems like it's the PSU so hopefully it'll resolve my issue.
But, just to satisfy my curiosity, is there any way that it could be the CPU or iGPU? As I posted before both tested fine for at-least an hour or so on stress testing, but combine them and the system goes boom.
Also, Thank you very much for the link, it's actually very informative and it's been bookmarked for future reference.
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scout_03
June 21, 2013 10:02:00 PM
brafu
June 21, 2013 10:09:55 PM
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