Help choosing water cooling parts?

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Nuclear101

Nuclear101

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Jun 11, 2012
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Dear All, I am currently waiting to build a computer that has a water cooled intel core i7-4770k, evga gtx 780, and will use a maximus vi formula, but I have a few questions that I need help with:

1. Can someone please help me choose between EKWB and XSPC for the water blocks, radiators, pumps, etc.? I am trying to choose the most efficient CPU block for ~90 US, GPU block for ~140 US, reservoir that will fit in a corsair 900d (~80 US), a quad radiator for ~168 US, pumps, and pump top for ~110 dollars and ~50 US, respectively, and comression fittings that are all for ~100 US.

2. Should I just use distilled water, a kill coil, and Pt_Nuke or should I try other coolants, as I have read both good and bad reviews.

3. Here is my current parts list: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/1927M

4. My budget for everything is ~$3000 US and if you take away everything and subtract ~350 US for the motherboard, that leaves ~807 US for water cooling gear.

Any input is highly appreciated :)

Thanks,

Nuclear101
 
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manofchalk

manofchalk

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May 11, 2012
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1. Setting a budget aside for each component isn't going top work well. Put money where it needs to be put, dont try and ration it out.
As for parts, thats for you to figure out ;). Martins Liquid Labs and Skinee's Labs are good resources.

2. Distilled water + Biocide or Kill-coil is all you need. Dont bother with pre-mixed coolants. If you want colour, do it through tubing and lighting effects.

4. $800 for a CPU + GPU loop is plenty.
 
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Nuclear101

Nuclear101

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Can you please help me choose between the Laing D5 or DDC pumps? I finished choosing everything else. :)

UPDATE: I decided to switch to the new Air Series 540 Case, and am intending on using a 360mm radiator at the front and a 240mm radiator at the back. Is there enough space for them and a push-pull? Thanks, Nuclear101
 
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manofchalk

manofchalk

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May 11, 2012
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The main difference between D5 and DDC pumps is that the D5 offers better flow and the DDC offers better head pressure. If your loop is low restriction, a D5 will perform better, high restriction and the DDC will perform better.

I would go for a D5 given the choice, their larger but due to their design are cooled by the water flowing through them. DDC do not, and are known to have temperature problems on the backside of their PCB's.
 
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4Ryan6

4Ryan6

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Apr 14, 2002
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That statement is not necessarily true, especially when nickel plated water blocks are involved in the loop, he has two nickel plated blocks in his parts listing from EK and this is a quote from their website.

Nickel plated blocks
All blocks bases are made of electrolytic copper.
Nickel plated blocks are milled of copper and then plated with fine thin layer of nickel.

When cleaning blocks please do not use any aggressive chemicals (neither vinegar) or rough materials as you may damage block and void warranty.

Using corrosion inhibitors is highly recommended as nickel plating does not prevent corrosion of metals when environment for galvanic effect is created (mixed metal,...).
Please note also that due to presence of UV additives and other chemicals nickel layer may also become discolored/stained over time period.
Click to expand...

Koolance will not honor their warranty unless you use their approved coolant with a Nickel plated water block as stated in the quote below.

Liquid Coolants

Koolance's product warranty does not cover the use of 3rd-party coolants, coolant additives, or corrosion. Koolance LIQ-702 or LIQ-705 coolants are strongly recommended to help avoid issues with mixed metals or biological growth. Additionally, do not use aluminum with bare (unplated) copper or bare (unplated) brass in the same system. Do not use silver with nickel in the same system.
Click to expand...

You may need to consider revising your statement regarding coolants of what is OK and what is not, as a Killcoil is Silver recommended to be avoided by Koolance.

Nickel plated water blocks are not problem free when the coolant used is reactant and creates the problems, your suggestions are fine for copper water blocks not plated but not when Nickel plated water blocks are part of the users buy list.

 
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manofchalk

manofchalk

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May 11, 2012
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Its true that some companies state to use their branded coolants with their components, but ultimately what can you do when each one of them wants you to use theirs?
With my loop I have XSPC recommending I should use their EC6 coolant, and Koolance outright cutting warranty support if I don't use theirs. I imagine Swiftech have their own recommendation, just wasnt included on my reservoirs manual as there's not much too corrode on an Acrylic part (actually, a corrosion inhibitor like Ethelyne Glycol will ruin Acrylic parts).

Then there are others that say Distilled is fine to use, largely it seems to me because they don't seem to offer their own coolant.
This is from Heatkiller, which made my GPU water-block (which is a Nickel part BTW).
http://water-cool.de/en/faq#n658

As for Galvanic Corrosion, Nickel (and of all companies, EK points out this one), Copper and Brass are close enough on the Galvanic Index to not pose any large risk of corrosion. Even Silver which is given its own little warning isn't too far off the other typical water-cooling metals (which can always be replaced with a Biocide if your really concerned, unless that breaches EK's statement on "chemicals").

corrosionplating.png


As long as the water isn't allowed to go stagnant for extended periods of time and you don't have extremely galvanic dissimilar metals in the loop, I don't see any real risk of corrosion.

And in regards to warranty support, I lose that on my graphics card as soon as a screwdriver dares touch any of the heatsink screws according to my HIS' box, and I imagine its similar with other brands. You cant please everyone when your water-cooling.
 
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4Ryan6

4Ryan6

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When companies refuse warranties they have tested reasoning far beyond your assumptions.

 
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manofchalk

manofchalk

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May 11, 2012
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Except this is not just assumption, I didn't just pull this out of nowhere.
http://martinsliquidlab.org/2012/01/24/corrosion-explored/
http://martinsliquidlab.org/2012/01/02/distilled-water-is-the-king-of-water-cooling/2/

EDIT: Even my choice in tubing comes with its own coolant recommendation.
 
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4Ryan6

4Ryan6

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It just makes good sense to warn new water coolers of the potential hazards they could encounter especially after EK has gone through all their problems regarding Nickel plated water blocks and Koolance have tested to see where and when or what causes product failures.


Jun 6, 2011
EK Official Statement for Nickel Plating Issues

Dear user of EK products,


EK Nickel plated products have been under lot of public interest recently due to reported flaking issues. This is a short statement to summarize the important points and conclusions from research done recently. In our statement there are also links to technical papers covering the issue in depth. We hope this will clarify the situation. EK promises that we will pursue this issue furthermore.



EK Water Blocks Company has been working on the Nickel Plating issue for over 3 months now. Let us say that any test with nickel is a long term project, if we want to be thorough.



We chose technical institute Jozef Stefan which is well known worldwide to check our samples. Their test report can be found here.



We have also made internal tests of 5 different coolants in an identical hardware setup.
What we found in summary is that:
1. Certain chemical additives based on pure silver and Copper Sulphate that were added to the loops all of these cases have made distilled water electrolytic and with its properties they caused corrosion of nickel plating.
2. Most of the threads on the forums have stated nickel-plating flaking off, while research have disclosed there was no flaking involved whatsoever.



Effects of these additives were not commonly known. EK is sure that users are using them in good faith. Due to only until recently confirmed effects of these additives to nickel plated blocks, EK have decided to fully replace products with damage nickel plating in order to support customers of EK products.
You will get a specific EK RMA form from your reseller which can be also downloaded here.


To get the RMA product replacement you will need to follow these steps:
1. Fill in RMA form
2. Make pictures of the block (front, back and corrosion close-up)
3. Send RMA form, scan of original invoice and 3 pictures for each block to EK support e-mail.
4. We will then inform you where to ship the damaged block(s).
5. EK support will inform you from where your replacement block will be shipped to you (in most cases it will be shipped from the location where you bought it)
6. The customer should arrange shipment to EK or EK reseller with Economy shipping option. Express shipping is not requested. EK will pay the shipping costs based on receipt scan sent to support e-mail with RMA # in paypal payment, or credit in EK Web shop. (updated on June 14th)
7. Customer will get the block replaced and cannot ask for a credit note nor replacement for another product. Only thing that we allow is that customer can chose to replace the product for non-Nickel-Plated block – copper version.



Therefore until further notice EK Water Blocks Company recommends, not to use distilled water silver in the loop in combination with nickel-plated blocks, nor additives based on Copper Sulphate.


EK recommends only coolants with anticorrosion additive, although our internal test systems of pure distilled water have been found without any problem in 2 months test period. EK Team would like to ask you to kindly spread this information as we would like our users to continue having excellent experiences with EK products.
Click to expand...

If companies warn of loss of warranty it is only good advice to advise others to comply and stay within that warning window, your advice is very irresponsible and not in the best interests of THGF or the water cooling community.



 
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4Ryan6

4Ryan6

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Apr 14, 2002
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To the OP, I truly apologize for this sidetracking of your thread it shouldn't have had to go this far, but I only have your best interests at heart!

Your PC Part Picker list shows 2 EK nickel plated water blocks that you're considering and you need to be aware of the past problems regarding nickel plated water blocks.

My personal suggestion would be to go with the copper base/acetal top water blocks then the nickel issue would not be a problem at all, and you could use manofchalk's original #2 suggestion.

EK CPU Water Block Copper/Acetal

EK GPU Titan/780GTX Water Block Copper/Acetal

Regarding the CPU water block the XSPC Raystorm is a better performing block than the EK, check the testing graphs in the link below.

Alternate CPU Water Block the XSPC Raystorm Copper/Acetal

Ryan
 
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