Perplexing Sapphire 7970 Ghz 3gb Edition - No video

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DesktopDoctors

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Aug 24, 2012
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Its a weird happening,
I tried to sell the 7970 as I just upgraded to the gtx 770 as Im going to water cool soon, but thats besides the point.
I sold it, the guy got it and told me that it wasnt working. No video on any of the displays. The card was working as the fans started running when the system booted.

Yes he had the 2 x 6 pins installed
He tried editing the bios to pcie
He tried going into safe mode
He tried to update the bios.
He tried a different PciE slot
He unplugged everything and plugged it back in
Restarted system
Installed drivers for it and still didn't work.

I refunded him of course and planned the RMA. Weird thing is, turns out when I got it back that It worked on my setup... All three of my monitors worked in all of the connections.

What would be the reason for this? Am I missing something really obvious? I don't know if I want to sell it if it wont work in someone elses system and go through the whole refund process again. I need the money and its kind of annoying me.

The help and advice is really appreciated.
Chris

By the way, Tj11 or 900d build coming in around a month or so. Not too sure on which one to choose as of yet.
 
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vmem

vmem

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Feb 17, 2012
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you know it could be that he just wanted a refund/return right?

otherwise maybe he had a bad PSU?

did you accurately document the unit's condition before you sent it out? and did he give you believable proof that it wasn't working on his computer?

also, personally I'd go with the TJ11, there's nothing like the feel of well crafted aluminum. though the 900D is easier to manage for a watercool build IMO
 
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DesktopDoctors

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Yea that did flash through my mind as he didn't send me proof that it wasn't working however. Yea I documented the condition. He had a 850w power supply. Unless he had like 50 fans im pretty sure that wouldnt be a problem haha...

This ordeal has just made me concious, Is there any way that if it works in my it wouldnt in someone elses if it is all compatible (pci 3.0 etc)


 
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vmem

vmem

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the only "other thing" I would have tested is if it worked in a third machine normally, and if it did, it would indicate that his mobo had a bad pcie slot, or some weird bug
 
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DesktopDoctors

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Yea this has helped a lot thanks, I wanted to make sure there wasnt a reason that it wouldnt work in his and work in mine. Ill try to see if it works in another machine somehow... I dont have a third but Ill find one.

In terms of Tj11 and 900d Im not sure... Tj11 in New Zealand (where I am) is 960 dollars but the 900d is only 669. Or from amazon the tj11 is 750 NZD and the 900d is 400 NZD.

Im not sure how I would go about setting up a dual loop though (dual gtx 770). Im thinking tj11 for dual and mounting the rads to the right of the motherboard. In terms of radiators the mount looks ugly at the bottom unlike the 900d where it has holes for the fans etc. The main problem is the setup of the dual loop. I really need a diagram or something :L
 
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vmem

vmem

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Feb 17, 2012
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well, to your first point, thank you so much for being an honest, genuine ebay seller, we need more people like you these days (I would take 50+ pictures documenting every single piece of an unpackaging/install process for a used card in fear of something going wrong...)

that aside, I think finding a third rig to test the card on would give you an answer once and for all. of course, let's remember that it's harder to get a bad card working than a good card to not function, so the chances that the card is bad and your system how somehow the "correct set of weird parts" to get it to work is unlikely to say the least :)

ahh, I didn't realize the price difference is so large between the two, the TJ11 is $575 and the 900D $333 on amazon here in the US -_-. yeah I keep hearing horror stories on pricing in Oceania

as for dual loop, I would honestly advise against it (I've researched it extensively in preperation of a build with the Murderbox MKII; it cost $1200 USD, so if you're getting the TJ11 it's worth considering). the guys at Swiftech did some pretty convincing testing, and this information is also reiterated at many enthusiast forums on the web.

http://www.swiftech.com/Resources/White_papers/Dual%20Loop%20versus%20Single.pdf

Basically, the temperature gains from a dual loop is marginal, while the pain to set it up and to get enough rad space for both loops to work properly is so terrible that it's almost never worth it. if you're concerned about having enough pressure to run through all the rads, I would use a pair of pumps, having a pump before all the rad doing "push" and one after the rad array "pulling" is one possibility :)

and yeah, if you don't like the look of a row of 4 fans spinning, then it'll be tough to get in lots of rads. may I suggest looking at more custom watercooling cases such as ones from mountain mods, danger den, etc?
 
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DesktopDoctors

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Aug 24, 2012
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Okay yea I guess dual loop isnt the way to go.
Yea in terms of cases I really want one that looks sexy, supports modding, and preferably under 400 dollars as shipping will be huge! and supports at least dual 480. The tj11 fits the bill and so does the 900d. Ive had a look and some of the little devil cases but idk, they dont show them with builds in them so its hard to picture what it would be like. The look to bare though with no artistic design. the 800d was very plain but looked stylish. The others look too 'aluminumy' if you get what I mean....

But yea, murderbox II I wish. Saw it around a month ago. if i had more money I would be soooo tempted but it costs way too much considering Im still at school and only 16 :L

I cant decide whether I want to go silent rig and average water cooling temps or high speed and near delta or in between. I think that going silent would be stupid as I usually use my headset or speakers which drown it out and the temps would be similar to on air with low rpm fans...

I want to find a balance between static pressure and cfm in terms of fans but good rpm.

Also I have to ask you... which looks better, blue rig or red rig? also which would be the best pump to buy? Im thinking about the gentle typhoons but cant decide between the 3000rpm or 1850rpm ones. I know they are releasing some new ones soon but they suck... 2000rpm and like 70 cfm at 35 decibels... the 3000rpm gts they sell at the moment are better for the same noise.
Which underclocks better, the 1850rpm or 3000rpm and which do you think would be most practical? Also is it possible to remove the shrouds and paint the fins red or blue or whatever colour I decide to go?

Also I like the look of the fans I just want them to suit the case. The problem with the tj11 is the radiator mount on the side of the case is meant to be stuck to the bottom with double side adhesive. I believe (according to linus) that it doesnt mount as the side panel gets in the way. This seems slightly dodgy...

Also how would I go about mounting the pumps and reservoirs? same? industrial double sided tape from 3m or...? sorry haha barraging everything off.

Thank you ever so much for your help so far :)
Chris

Sorry about all the questions ahha :L
 
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vmem

vmem

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for silence vs optimal cooling delta, I would go for high speed and put all your fans on an easy to reach fan controller (be it automatic with temp sensors or manual). just turn down the fan when you're not rocking w/ your headset and you'll be fine

generally, the scythe gentle typhoons have been some of the most recommended fans for watercooling (just high enough static pressure at relatively low rpm for minmal noise). just go with 1850 rpm ones. if you actually need 3000rpm, you're doing something wrong, besides your room will sound like a jet-engine the entire time. corsair SF120s push a lot of air but are a bit loud. also, Noctua is rumored to be selling their fans in bare-bone boxes in black at the end of the year (no accessories or poop-brown paintjob, but for cheap :) )

oh, and NEVER EVER pain fan fins. the fins of good case fans are VERY CAREFULLY balanced so that the fan does not wabble when it spins. you ruin that balance by painting them, so they'll wabble and rattle when they spin and generally decrease the fan's life-span and effectiveness.

as to blue vs red... I went blue/black rig for my current build, liked it at first, got tired of it by now and want to switch to red lol. but I think either would look good and depends on personal taste

I'm not 100% sure with how to mount rads on the bottom of the tj11, I've seen pictures of it done many ways, but haven't looked into it extensively. I'll read up about it and let you know.

mounting pumps and res can be tricky and highly depend on what you end up buying. the round ones can be zip-tied down to maybe the mobo-backpanel with some selectively drilled holes and padding. tape works too I guess

glad to help :)
 
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DesktopDoctors

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Oh well you probably just saved me quite a lot with painting etc thank you!
Okay so the 1850rpm it is then :)
Just wondering... How would I go about setting up 8 fans to one fan controller with only 6 ports? lamptron are apparently the best or good...

I was looking at the mcp665-b... is this a good pump? will this suffice or will I need two pumps? Running 3930k and dual gtx 770.

Also yes, I have the sp120 in push pull on my antec kuhler 620 at the moment. They are quite quiet but make a bit of a rattling noise :L
 
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vmem

vmem

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You can use 3 or 4-pin splitters to connect multiple fans to be controlled by the same header on a mobo or fan controller. they'll be something like this :)

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00B46XKKQ/ref=gno_cart_title_1?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER

Now as you may already know you can't just link up all your fans to one header that way, it's not exactly pretty or "safe". every fan has a power draw. for the Scythe gentle typhoon, you can see that it draws at 12V, and 0.083Amps
http://www.xbitlabs.com/misc/picture/?src=/images/coolers/120-140-fans-roundup/16%20-%20Scythe%20Gentle%20Typhoon/02_scgentle185_box_big.jpg&1=1

If you've taken physics already, you may recall that power = voltage X current, or P = V*C. in this case, P = 12V X 0.083A = 0.996W = 1Watt. most fan controllers will tell you something like "5W per lead", which means you can connect fans that total up to 5 watts or less onto each single header before you go over capacity.

I'm not too familiar with pumps, but from what I've read so far swiftech is a solid name in watercooling in general, and the 665 is a pretty good pump. however if you need to run a loop covering CPU, two GPUs, and two 480mm rads, you'll be best off with 2 pumps to get some decent flow going. I would draw up a diagram of what you intend to do after you decide on a case, and take it over to the watercooling forum. there're some really experienced guys there

and yeah, the sp120 are good fans for their price, but tend to be a bit cheaply made. however they shouldn't rattle audibly. did you secure the screws tightly? also you can try inserting rubber gourmets on all the screw slots to absorb the vibration.
 
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DesktopDoctors

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Aug 24, 2012
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Sorry for the late reply, been working all weekend to fund this :D

Okay picking a fan controller is the easiest part. Im looking at the Lamptron FC5 v2. Colours work well with red black wc. http://www.lamptron.com/product/controllers/fc5-v2/ I believe the gt's are compatible as they are 3 pin and the connector to the fan controller is 3 pin.

In terms of cases Im probably going to decide on a tj11. Following the suit of the carbon mod sort of. http://forum.highflow.nl/f34/tj11-carbon-10637/

I want to remove the 180mm fans. Buy a dremel and get a piece of black and red acrylic and make the holes like he has done there on page 2. It looks so much more organized. My only quarrel is the price (going to have to wait a while for the money but also what is the cable management like? it doesn't look to be very good....

Also sleeving, is it hard? I know its time consuming of which I can manage, probably. But in terms of difficulty what would you rate it? Currently I have an ax1200 (Ik overkill - Got it on sales). Are you able to recommend any particular type of black sleeving?

Also how would you go about setting up two pumps to one big cyclindrical reservoir (250mm). If possible a diagram would be amazing :)

Decided on two Black Ice Gtx 480 Radiators as well. 1850rpm they should pull start to pull away from the rest because of the higher fpi, if I lower them itll be because im surfing and I dont really need the amazing temps anyway. So no problems there that I can see...

Chris
 
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vmem

vmem

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Feb 17, 2012
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Well, skipping ahead, I'm sure you're aware that the second you say dremel you're voiding the warranty on the case :). but yeah, that mod does look good!. also, when doing more hardcore modding like that, take into account the cost/time of cutting your material correctly, and buy extra material as there is a chance that you'll screw up (well, buy in bulk, or buy just barely enough if the shop is near by)

I wouldn't say Sleeving is hard, it's tedious, and you need to be very careful about recording where each of the wires go before you take them out of the plastic header so you put everything back correctly. otherwise patience patience patience, and you should be fine. also, consider getting an cable extension kit from NZXT, Silverstone etc. you'll be hiding the ugly cables behind the mobo tray so you'll only see the nicely sleeved extensions anyway :)

http://store.nzxt.com/premium-cable-solutions-s/26.htm

Sorry, I'm really against imageshack etc so can't upload a diagram XD. but you would set up your pumps in "push/pull", probably before and after your rad array. thus only one pump would be pulling water from the res and pumping into the rads, the other would be pulling from the rads, pumping into your waterblocks and eventually into the res again

also, keep in mind that if you're putting TWO 480mm rads in the bottom of the TJ 7, you'll need a creative place to put your PSU.
 
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DesktopDoctors

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Aug 24, 2012
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Yea I know :/ a bit annoying when it will cost me like a grand nearly over here :/...
How do These people get sponsored to make all these builds? Is it just by seeing their previous builds?

Well I am still at school and I can probably convince my dad to pay for the acrylic and the hard tech teacher are friendly and will let me go in and use their rotary tools and files etc.

I'm afraid I don't understand the push pulling thing. How would my setup go?
Reservoir > Pump > 480 bottom/top? Idk which .... ? > cpu > chipset > 480 rad > pump > 2 gpus
Is this correct?
How do you setup which is pulling and pushing... Is there an orientation that the tubing needs to go in.

Also speaking of which the tubing size intimidates me slightly... Was is the best size for compression fittings? 3/8's id, 5/8's od I'm thinking...
Are there compatibility problems with my components if i choose this. I.e pump fittings or do they fit all sizes as long as I have the correct fittings


The first thing that came to mind was to just take a photo of the cables and then sleeve them. Would this work?...



 
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vmem

vmem

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um, some people get sponsored because they've made very nice build logs in the past, and overtime they build up a reputation within the community. others have actually worked for companies like ASUS, MSI, or Silverstone before. these are much older guys who've established their name already (once new a guy to build a premium mod for Seasonic to show off their 1200W PSU, etc etc)

school is nice like that, and most professors/teachers will be happy to help students on projects as long as you're nice... I miss that aspect of school myself lol... now I gotta just pay for everything

res > pump> 480 top > cpu > chipset > 480 rad > pump > 2 gpus
is probably how I would do it... but honestly ask the guys over at the watercooling forum in overclocking. they have a lot more experience than I do and some have tested almost every possible set up with dual pumps to figure out the optimum

as for push/pulling, it's all relative to the res. fittings aren't a big issue because the "screw ins" are generally of a standard size. anyway, taking water from the res is pushing because you're pushing water into your loop, and pumping water into the res is pulling cuz you're pulling water from your loop back into the res (or something like that).

decide on tubing size after you figure out the type of fittings you want. this will largely depend on the res you get and the type of pressures it is built for. wider tubing means more flow/easier flow, but when that hits the res it becomes much higher pressure. again, ask the pro-watercooling guys :) I don't want to give out bad advice as I've only done one custom loop myself in the past. and my murderbox project will be slow and a learning experience (but people can be extremely helpful when you pay them $1.2k for a case :p)

taking a photo for sleeving helps. most people also just get masking tape and tape and label each cable. tedious, but it goes a long way in making sure you don't make mistakes
 
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