Intel Core i5-4670K 3.40GHz (Haswell) or i5 3570K 3.4GHz Socket 1155 gaming

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sav26

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hi guys hoping u can help out am unsure which processor to go for thinking of either one of these 2 will be mainly used for gaming browsing little iso 2 god work etc but mainly gaming is it better to go with latest gen or not as i need a new motherboard and ram anyway but first off want to decide if this is the best option or if amd can tempt me with there latest offerings but would like a bit of advice what is best for the money as the budget isnt great for motherboard processor and ram all help is much appreciated
 
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sav26

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£192.60inc. VAT 4670k

£182.70inc. VAT 3570k

as i have a brand new corsair 750 tx

and geforce gtx 660 twin frozr 3

which i am basically building the system around
 
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sav26

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so basically is only ten pound difference if the haswell 4670k is the best next i need a motherboard mid range and at least 8gb of ram preferably 16gb if the money allows also does anyone no of any good bundle deals with this processor ram and board as am looking at playing games like f1 2012 on ultra far cry 3 etc all help is much appreciated
 
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8350rocks

8350rocks

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4th Gen Intel architecture is only a 1% improvement in gaming.

My recommendation is the 3570k with a caveat:

If you're not overclocking, and you can acquire the 2 for roughly the same money (CPU + MB) then the 4670k may make sense for you.

If you're overclocking, or the 3570k + Z77 MB is a bit cheaper for the pair, then go with the 3570k.
 
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8350rocks

8350rocks

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You know, not everyone is going to delid their CPU and run a $100 cooling system to keep their CPU cool. You might want to express that you had to do that to hit your unusually high OC when you recommend getting "hasfail" and overclocking to people asking serious questions about it.
 
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Intel God

Intel God

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:lol:

Before I delidded I ran a venomous x at 4.5ghz. I only delidded in my quest for 5ghz and Haswell a fail? Smarten up dude. The only fail is intels use of tim

Ohh and i run a 300 dollar cooling system not a 100 dollar one. ;)
 
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8350rocks

8350rocks

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There are many people on these forums with 4.8-4.9 GHz overclocks on 3570k/3770k CPUs and delidding isn't common here at all...

EDIT: Hasfail's issue is heat generation...it's 15C hotter at high overclocks...meaning you need more drastic cooling to get those overclocks even if you hit the silicon lottery and could get the clock speed without delidding.

IB just overclocks far better. It doesn't often hit 5.0 like SB did, but it doesn't have the same internal issues with VRMs on die that hasfail has been exposed to thanks to Intel's desire to make you buy a new socket in a MB.
 
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drtoast

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I find it hilarious that intel god assumes it's just one article when I showed him two the first time we clashed, google search is filled with them. Even funnier is that wikipedia (famously unreliable) has actually got the fact it runs hotter down.

Even these forums admit it runs hotter, as a generalisation. Opinions differ on its value but still.

And $300 coolers just arent an option to everyone. Try achieving the same OC on an evo 212 or even a h100i which is closer to what most people can pay.

Nor the money to delid and risk destroying their CPU.

Haswell's trouble, I'm not sure if you know about this intel, because you behave like it's not an issue is that the voltage regulator sits inside the chip, pumping heat that was previously external, into the CPU.

Edit- I really should refresh the page before posting, sorry for repeating you 8350 :L
 
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Intel God

Intel God

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:lol: Please humor me and show me proof of people on these forums with Ivy bridge hitting 4.8ghz and 4.9Ghz on stock tim and non extreme cooling. Links please to specific threads.

Onto temps. Where exactly did you see that haswell runs 15C hotter? In TPU's review a 4Ghz 4770K runs 13C Cooler then a 4Ghz 3770K. Link me to where you saw this magical "15C" difference.

temps_load.gif


Lastly onto overclocking. Do you have Ivy bridge or Haswell? Ofcourse not you're rocking an 8350. So explain to me how you can go around these forums giving advice on whats better when you've never owned or experienced either? Wouldn't that be better left to those who have owned both? I'll be waiting for your so called proof
 
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drtoast

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I'd be more interested when you actually post identical clocks vs temperature. Its well known that at stock its more efficient, and that when it hits a point where you have to bump voltage (I'd like to see that 4770k @ 4.5ghz vs 4.5 not 4.2 vs 4.5) it freaks out and starts heating like a rocket engine ignition xD
 
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Intel God

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Thats the problem. The reviewers had issues with overclocking except for Bit tech. They hit 4.7Ghz but didnt compare to a 3770K. They did record at that speed they hit 97C with an H100

I thought Ivy overclocked better then Haswell 8350 :ange:

http://www.tomshardware.com/answers/id-1724285/questions-3570k-results.html#11101318
 
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8350rocks

8350rocks

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Look around, there's CPU-Z verifications in sigs all over this forum, and most of them are not de-lidded. Additionally, I know you may find it hard to believe, but there are many over clockers here that have not bothered to de-lid their CPU because of the risks, there are a few, but most of them were like you and got poor silicon to start with, and they did it to match the others who got better silicon.

http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/cpus/2012/05/01/intel-core-i5-3570k-cpu-review/8

However, while our Corsair H100 didn't feel particularly warm, the temperature of our CPU was sky-high and only just below the Tj Max of 105°C. It's clear that the heat density is so high, that modern coolers are simply focussing their efforts on too large an area. High-end water cooling may help to deal with anything significantly higher than 4.8GHz, but this is still a stonking overclock that easily achievable with a high-quality air cooler.
Click to expand...

There's a bit-tech review showing that 4.8 GHz on air cooling should be easily achievable on the 3570k. Want more like that one?

http://techreport.com/review/24889/haswell-overclocked-the-core-i7-4770k-at-4-7ghz

As is always the case with overclocking, your mileage may vary. That said, it's worth noting that we hit 4.9GHz with a similarly early Ivy Bridge sample a year ago. That CPU also required 1.35V, but it got by with a dual-fan air cooler.

All indications point to overclocked Haswell processors requiring more aggressive cooling than their Ivy predecessors. The Core i7-4770K does have a higher TDP than the 3770K, but the associated heat is also spread over a larger die area. The 4770K's TDP per area works out to 0.47W/mm², while the 3770K's is 0.48W/mm². Haswell and Ivy seem to be on even footing in that regard. The die layouts follow the same basic blueprint, as well.

Haswell and Ivy Bridge also use a similar interface material between their dies and external heat spreaders. Intel used to employ a fluxless solder between those two pieces, but it switched to thermal paste with Ivy.

We don't have a definitive explanation for Haswell's apparent need for most robust cooling, but the chip's integrated VRM may play a role. Voltage regulation was handled off-chip in Ivy Bridge, but Haswell brings it—and the associated heat—onboard the die. Integrated voltage regulation is a big part of Haswell's appeal for mobile platforms. Unfortunately, it may also limit the processor's overclocking potential on the desktop.
Click to expand...

Hitting thermal envelopes with H100i on Hasfail vs. doing it on air cooling with IB and not hitting thermal envelopes is a 15C difference at minimum.

You need to put down the Kool-Aid man, that stuff's bad for you.

EDIT: Some of the desktops at work are Intel machines...don't assume just because I prefer AMD that I've never worked on both. Frankly, there isn't a hill of beans difference in many respects.
 
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drtoast

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So hang on, the reviewers had problems overclocking.... so your one test you keep posting as being the proof that haswell is beast at OC is one where they couldnt get it to OC? Or am I not understanding something?

Also the xbit I showed you literally compared the 3770k to the 4770k

Also you claim a 4.4 wall on that thread to your 4.6 here. You can't even keep your facts consistent.... I'm not entirely sure what your shooting for here.
 
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Intel God

Intel God

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When did i ever say haswell was an overclocking beast? On stock TIM its no beast but neither is Ivy. All i was refuting was 8350's claims that Ivy overclocks better which it entirely untrue. Validations don't mean anything.

5Ghz Watercooled Haswell with stock TIM

q52zr.jpg


http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?286333-Haswell-i5-4670K-i7-4770K-batch-and-o-c-results&p=5196527&viewfull=1#post5196527

Its all about the silicone lottery
 
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drtoast

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Maybe "better" is the wrong word.

But it still stands that to match an ivy on (relatively cheap) air cooling you need an expensive watercooling system. Performance be damned, just sheer temperatures to clock. Its the price of the aftermarket needed that makes ivy shine.

As for overclocking beast, fairly sure on one of the other 6 or so threads where you show up just to contradict people. And yay for a 5ghz watercooled haswell.... exactly how much was that cooler? compared to the average budget. I could show you an 8ghz 3770k on nitrogen I think it was. But then whats that worth?

I cant agree more on it being a lottery. But the odds of the lottery? comparing the reviews of ivy to haswell. It's rare I see a positive haswell, and rare I see a negative Ivy. So are we going to say that get a haswell incase your one of the 0.1% Unlike the reviewers. Or an Ivy incase your one of the many, like most of the reviewers were?
 
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