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Intel Core i5-4670K 3.40GHz (Haswell) or i5 3570K 3.4GHz Socket 1155 gaming

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July 5, 2013 7:43:39 AM

hi guys hoping u can help out am unsure which processor to go for thinking of either one of these 2 will be mainly used for gaming browsing little iso 2 god work etc but mainly gaming is it better to go with latest gen or not as i need a new motherboard and ram anyway but first off want to decide if this is the best option or if amd can tempt me with there latest offerings but would like a bit of advice what is best for the money as the budget isnt great for motherboard processor and ram all help is much appreciated
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July 5, 2013 7:46:45 AM

how much can you get them for?
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July 5, 2013 7:49:55 AM

Haswell all the way to the edge of the universe. Hands down
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July 5, 2013 7:49:56 AM

£192.60inc. VAT 4670k

£182.70inc. VAT 3570k

as i have a brand new corsair 750 tx

and geforce gtx 660 twin frozr 3

which i am basically building the system around
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July 5, 2013 7:52:42 AM

Get Haswell
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July 5, 2013 7:52:46 AM

Get Haswell
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July 5, 2013 7:54:46 AM

so basically is only ten pound difference if the haswell 4670k is the best next i need a motherboard mid range and at least 8gb of ram preferably 16gb if the money allows also does anyone no of any good bundle deals with this processor ram and board as am looking at playing games like f1 2012 on ultra far cry 3 etc all help is much appreciated
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July 5, 2013 8:13:02 AM

Haswell.... unless your overclocking. Then ivy.
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July 5, 2013 8:15:33 AM

4th Gen Intel architecture is only a 1% improvement in gaming.

My recommendation is the 3570k with a caveat:

If you're not overclocking, and you can acquire the 2 for roughly the same money (CPU + MB) then the 4670k may make sense for you.

If you're overclocking, or the 3570k + Z77 MB is a bit cheaper for the pair, then go with the 3570k.
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July 5, 2013 8:16:53 AM

To add to 8350rocks. On top of that you can use a far cheaper cooler with ivy to get the same results as a $100 cooler with haswell.
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July 5, 2013 10:09:25 AM

Eh get the haswell. its only 10 more.
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July 5, 2013 11:12:59 AM

Intel God said:
drtoast said:
Haswell.... unless your overclocking. Then ivy.


OP pay no attention to drtoast. He's read 1 review and believes he is now a haswell expert.

Op my Haswell oc guide

http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/id-1722630/intel-god-...


You know, not everyone is going to delid their CPU and run a $100 cooling system to keep their CPU cool. You might want to express that you had to do that to hit your unusually high OC when you recommend getting "hasfail" and overclocking to people asking serious questions about it.
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July 5, 2013 12:56:33 PM

8350rocks said:
Intel God said:
drtoast said:
Haswell.... unless your overclocking. Then ivy.


OP pay no attention to drtoast. He's read 1 review and believes he is now a haswell expert.

Op my Haswell oc guide

http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/id-1722630/intel-god-...


You know, not everyone is going to delid their CPU and run a $100 cooling system to keep their CPU cool. You might want to express that you had to do that to hit your unusually high OC when you recommend getting "hasfail" and overclocking to people asking serious questions about it.


:lol: 

Before I delidded I ran a venomous x at 4.5ghz. I only delidded in my quest for 5ghz and Haswell a fail? Smarten up dude. The only fail is intels use of tim

Ohh and i run a 300 dollar cooling system not a 100 dollar one. ;) 
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July 5, 2013 1:08:22 PM

3570k @ 4.8-4.9 GHz > 4670k @ 4.2-4.5 GHz
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July 5, 2013 1:10:24 PM

8350rocks said:
3570k @ 4.8-4.9 GHz > 4670k @ 4.2-4.5 GHz


How exactly do you plan on getting past 4.6Ghz on a 3570K without delidding? Ivy and Haswell both have the same 4.6GHz wall
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July 5, 2013 1:14:29 PM

Intel God said:
8350rocks said:
3570k @ 4.8-4.9 GHz > 4670k @ 4.2-4.5 GHz


How exactly do you plan on getting past 4.6Ghz on a 3570K without delidding? Ivy and Haswell both have the same 4.6GHz wall


There are many people on these forums with 4.8-4.9 GHz overclocks on 3570k/3770k CPUs and delidding isn't common here at all...

EDIT: Hasfail's issue is heat generation...it's 15C hotter at high overclocks...meaning you need more drastic cooling to get those overclocks even if you hit the silicon lottery and could get the clock speed without delidding.

IB just overclocks far better. It doesn't often hit 5.0 like SB did, but it doesn't have the same internal issues with VRMs on die that hasfail has been exposed to thanks to Intel's desire to make you buy a new socket in a MB.
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July 5, 2013 1:44:58 PM

I find it hilarious that intel god assumes it's just one article when I showed him two the first time we clashed, google search is filled with them. Even funnier is that wikipedia (famously unreliable) has actually got the fact it runs hotter down.

Even these forums admit it runs hotter, as a generalisation. Opinions differ on its value but still.

And $300 coolers just arent an option to everyone. Try achieving the same OC on an evo 212 or even a h100i which is closer to what most people can pay.

Nor the money to delid and risk destroying their CPU.

Haswell's trouble, I'm not sure if you know about this intel, because you behave like it's not an issue is that the voltage regulator sits inside the chip, pumping heat that was previously external, into the CPU.

Edit- I really should refresh the page before posting, sorry for repeating you 8350 :L
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July 5, 2013 2:06:37 PM

8350rocks said:
Intel God said:
8350rocks said:
3570k @ 4.8-4.9 GHz > 4670k @ 4.2-4.5 GHz


How exactly do you plan on getting past 4.6Ghz on a 3570K without delidding? Ivy and Haswell both have the same 4.6GHz wall


There are many people on these forums with 4.8-4.9 GHz overclocks on 3570k/3770k CPUs and delidding isn't common here at all...

EDIT: Hasfail's issue is heat generation...it's 15C hotter at high overclocks...meaning you need more drastic cooling to get those overclocks even if you hit the silicon lottery and could get the clock speed without delidding.

IB just overclocks far better. It doesn't often hit 5.0 like SB did, but it doesn't have the same internal issues with VRMs on die that hasfail has been exposed to thanks to Intel's desire to make you buy a new socket in a MB.


:lol:  Please humor me and show me proof of people on these forums with Ivy bridge hitting 4.8ghz and 4.9Ghz on stock tim and non extreme cooling. Links please to specific threads.

Onto temps. Where exactly did you see that haswell runs 15C hotter? In TPU's review a 4Ghz 4770K runs 13C Cooler then a 4Ghz 3770K. Link me to where you saw this magical "15C" difference.



Lastly onto overclocking. Do you have Ivy bridge or Haswell? Ofcourse not you're rocking an 8350. So explain to me how you can go around these forums giving advice on whats better when you've never owned or experienced either? Wouldn't that be better left to those who have owned both? I'll be waiting for your so called proof
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July 5, 2013 2:25:46 PM

I'd be more interested when you actually post identical clocks vs temperature. Its well known that at stock its more efficient, and that when it hits a point where you have to bump voltage (I'd like to see that 4770k @ 4.5ghz vs 4.5 not 4.2 vs 4.5) it freaks out and starts heating like a rocket engine ignition xD
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July 5, 2013 2:44:41 PM

drtoast said:
I'd be more interested when you actually post identical clocks vs temperature. Its well known that at stock its more efficient, and that when it hits a point where you have to bump voltage (I'd like to see that 4770k @ 4.5ghz vs 4.5 not 4.2 vs 4.5) it freaks out and starts heating like a rocket engine ignition xD


Thats the problem. The reviewers had issues with overclocking except for Bit tech. They hit 4.7Ghz but didnt compare to a 3770K. They did record at that speed they hit 97C with an H100

I thought Ivy overclocked better then Haswell 8350 :ange: 

http://www.tomshardware.com/answers/id-1724285/question...
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July 5, 2013 3:00:39 PM

Intel God said:
8350rocks said:
Intel God said:
8350rocks said:
3570k @ 4.8-4.9 GHz > 4670k @ 4.2-4.5 GHz


How exactly do you plan on getting past 4.6Ghz on a 3570K without delidding? Ivy and Haswell both have the same 4.6GHz wall


There are many people on these forums with 4.8-4.9 GHz overclocks on 3570k/3770k CPUs and delidding isn't common here at all...

EDIT: Hasfail's issue is heat generation...it's 15C hotter at high overclocks...meaning you need more drastic cooling to get those overclocks even if you hit the silicon lottery and could get the clock speed without delidding.

IB just overclocks far better. It doesn't often hit 5.0 like SB did, but it doesn't have the same internal issues with VRMs on die that hasfail has been exposed to thanks to Intel's desire to make you buy a new socket in a MB.


:lol:  Please humor me and show me proof of people on these forums with Ivy bridge hitting 4.8ghz and 4.9Ghz on stock tim and non extreme cooling. Links please to specific threads.

Onto temps. Where exactly did you see that haswell runs 15C hotter? In TPU's review a 4Ghz 4770K runs 13C Cooler then a 4Ghz 3770K. Link me to where you saw this magical "15C" difference.



Lastly onto overclocking. Do you have Ivy bridge or Haswell? Ofcourse not you're rocking an 8350. So explain to me how you can go around these forums giving advice on whats better when you've never owned or experienced either? Wouldn't that be better left to those who have owned both? I'll be waiting for your so called proof


Look around, there's CPU-Z verifications in sigs all over this forum, and most of them are not de-lidded. Additionally, I know you may find it hard to believe, but there are many over clockers here that have not bothered to de-lid their CPU because of the risks, there are a few, but most of them were like you and got poor silicon to start with, and they did it to match the others who got better silicon.

http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/cpus/2012/05/01/intel-...

Quote:
However, while our Corsair H100 didn't feel particularly warm, the temperature of our CPU was sky-high and only just below the Tj Max of 105°C. It's clear that the heat density is so high, that modern coolers are simply focussing their efforts on too large an area. High-end water cooling may help to deal with anything significantly higher than 4.8GHz, but this is still a stonking overclock that easily achievable with a high-quality air cooler.


There's a bit-tech review showing that 4.8 GHz on air cooling should be easily achievable on the 3570k. Want more like that one?

http://techreport.com/review/24889/haswell-overclocked-...

Quote:
As is always the case with overclocking, your mileage may vary. That said, it's worth noting that we hit 4.9GHz with a similarly early Ivy Bridge sample a year ago. That CPU also required 1.35V, but it got by with a dual-fan air cooler.

All indications point to overclocked Haswell processors requiring more aggressive cooling than their Ivy predecessors. The Core i7-4770K does have a higher TDP than the 3770K, but the associated heat is also spread over a larger die area. The 4770K's TDP per area works out to 0.47W/mm², while the 3770K's is 0.48W/mm². Haswell and Ivy seem to be on even footing in that regard. The die layouts follow the same basic blueprint, as well.

Haswell and Ivy Bridge also use a similar interface material between their dies and external heat spreaders. Intel used to employ a fluxless solder between those two pieces, but it switched to thermal paste with Ivy.

We don't have a definitive explanation for Haswell's apparent need for most robust cooling, but the chip's integrated VRM may play a role. Voltage regulation was handled off-chip in Ivy Bridge, but Haswell brings it—and the associated heat—onboard the die. Integrated voltage regulation is a big part of Haswell's appeal for mobile platforms. Unfortunately, it may also limit the processor's overclocking potential on the desktop.


Hitting thermal envelopes with H100i on Hasfail vs. doing it on air cooling with IB and not hitting thermal envelopes is a 15C difference at minimum.

You need to put down the Kool-Aid man, that stuff's bad for you.

EDIT: Some of the desktops at work are Intel machines...don't assume just because I prefer AMD that I've never worked on both. Frankly, there isn't a hill of beans difference in many respects.
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July 5, 2013 3:10:04 PM

Intel God said:


Thats the problem. The reviewers had issues with overclocking except for Bit tech. They hit 4.7Ghz but didnt compare to a 3770K. They did record at that speed they hit 97C with an H100

I thought Ivy overclocked better then Haswell 8350 :ange: 

http://www.tomshardware.com/answers/id-1724285/question...


So hang on, the reviewers had problems overclocking.... so your one test you keep posting as being the proof that haswell is beast at OC is one where they couldnt get it to OC? Or am I not understanding something?

Also the xbit I showed you literally compared the 3770k to the 4770k

Also you claim a 4.4 wall on that thread to your 4.6 here. You can't even keep your facts consistent.... I'm not entirely sure what your shooting for here.
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July 5, 2013 3:46:11 PM

drtoast said:
Intel God said:


Thats the problem. The reviewers had issues with overclocking except for Bit tech. They hit 4.7Ghz but didnt compare to a 3770K. They did record at that speed they hit 97C with an H100

I thought Ivy overclocked better then Haswell 8350 :ange: 

http://www.tomshardware.com/answers/id-1724285/question...


So hang on, the reviewers had problems overclocking.... so your one test you keep posting as being the proof that haswell is beast at OC is one where they couldnt get it to OC? Or am I not understanding something?

Also the xbit I showed you literally compared the 3770k to the 4770k

Also you claim a 4.4 wall on that thread to your 4.6 here. You can't even keep your facts consistent.... I'm not entirely sure what your shooting for here.


When did i ever say haswell was an overclocking beast? On stock TIM its no beast but neither is Ivy. All i was refuting was 8350's claims that Ivy overclocks better which it entirely untrue. Validations don't mean anything.

5Ghz Watercooled Haswell with stock TIM



http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?2863...

Its all about the silicone lottery
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July 5, 2013 4:17:35 PM

Maybe "better" is the wrong word.

But it still stands that to match an ivy on (relatively cheap) air cooling you need an expensive watercooling system. Performance be damned, just sheer temperatures to clock. Its the price of the aftermarket needed that makes ivy shine.

As for overclocking beast, fairly sure on one of the other 6 or so threads where you show up just to contradict people. And yay for a 5ghz watercooled haswell.... exactly how much was that cooler? compared to the average budget. I could show you an 8ghz 3770k on nitrogen I think it was. But then whats that worth?

I cant agree more on it being a lottery. But the odds of the lottery? comparing the reviews of ivy to haswell. It's rare I see a positive haswell, and rare I see a negative Ivy. So are we going to say that get a haswell incase your one of the 0.1% Unlike the reviewers. Or an Ivy incase your one of the many, like most of the reviewers were?
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July 30, 2013 11:05:00 AM

The guy asked a simple question and instead the tread got derailed by a bunch of self titled expert ego maniacs losing sight of helping the op and instead going at it. Why not start an AMD Intel session.

Op if overclocking go with ivy bridge , if not go with haswell maybe just because the new mobos have newer features.

Or if your definitely getting a gpu forget both of them and get an Xeon 1230v2. Same price has I7 3770 performance. Not to mention xeons have better quality control and reliability.

So if oc ivy
If not bothered haswell.
If never overclocking ever and wanting better value for money Xeon.
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July 30, 2013 11:17:34 AM

SterlingArcher said:
The guy asked a simple question and instead the tread got derailed by a bunch of self titled expert ego maniacs losing sight of helping the op and instead going at it. Why not start an AMD Intel session.

Op if overclocking go with ivy bridge , if not go with haswell maybe just because the new mobos have newer features.

Or if your definitely getting a gpu forget both of them and get an Xeon 1230v2. Same price has I7 3770 performance. Not to mention xeons have better quality control and reliability.

So if oc ivy
If not bothered haswell.
If never overclocking ever and wanting better value for money Xeon.



Part one, way to necrobump a thread.
Part two, nice way to start your brand new account with an insult, then add the same opinion as two of the people arguing, you literally just parroted what we said and then joined the argument to boot.
Part three, what exactly does buying a GPU have to do with getting a xeon? Are you telling all the gaming rig builders that they made a mistake buying an i5?
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July 30, 2013 11:46:46 AM

Part one did not see solved.

2 I never insulted anyone. If you were highly offended by what I said about derailing the tread then that must be the truth hurting. Either that or you're easily insulted to which I can only say real life will be like a shotgun to the chest for you.

Part 3, was me giving the op an opinion to the question he asked , I missed the part he asked for a big debate by people throwing statistics at each other.

As for the last part. I suggested an Xeon 1230v2. Which i assume Mr CPU expert you would know does not come with an igpu. So would need a dedicated graphics card. Which I assume he will when gaming anyway.
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July 30, 2013 12:04:36 PM

^ now look what you've started.

SterlingArcher said:
a bunch of self titled expert ego maniacs


It's not ego mania, it was two people trying to tell a deliberate troll to stop spreading misinformation. As for self titled, the titles are community voted as you should well know.

SterlingArcher said:
Part one did not see solved.

Part 3, was me giving the op an opinion to the question he asked , I missed the part he asked for a big debate by people throwing statistics at each other.

As for the last part. I suggested an Xeon 1230v2. Which i assume Mr CPU expert you would know does not come with an igpu. So would need a dedicated graphics card. Which I assume he will when gaming anyway.


Thats still an amazing necrobump, considering most one time users don't know how to close a discussion.

If you read the thread then you would know we both gave simple answers to the op at the start.

Just because your buying a GPU doesn't mean you avoid a CPU with ipgu. It just gets deactivated. xeon's aren't often suggested because they are slower and more expensive (£20 more than the i5).

Their usefulness is in expandability when you need a lot of spare ports.
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July 30, 2013 12:07:02 PM

byogamingpc said:
Just get the i5-4670K http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00CO8TBOW/ref=as_li_q... and upgrade to the next socket 1150 processor when it comes out. :) 


There will only be hasfail refresh on 1150, no broadwell...it's OEM only per Intel and aimed squarely at mobile space. There's no die shrink coming to 1150, no radical changes, no new process. Just more hasfail CPUs next summer.

Next change for desktop is Skylake in 2015, and it requires a new MB.

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July 30, 2013 7:59:06 PM

drtoast said:
^ now look what you've started.

SterlingArcher said:
a bunch of self titled expert ego maniacs


It's not ego mania, it was two people trying to tell a deliberate troll to stop spreading misinformation. As for self titled, the titles are community voted as you should well know.

SterlingArcher said:
Part one did not see solved.

Part 3, was me giving the op an opinion to the question he asked , I missed the part he asked for a big debate by people throwing statistics at each other.

As for the last part. I suggested an Xeon 1230v2. Which i assume Mr CPU expert you would know does not come with an igpu. So would need a dedicated graphics card. Which I assume he will when gaming anyway.


Thats still an amazing necrobump, considering most one time users don't know how to close a discussion.

If you read the thread then you would know we both gave simple answers to the op at the start.

Just because your buying a GPU doesn't mean you avoid a CPU with ipgu. It just gets deactivated. xeon's aren't often suggested because they are slower and more expensive (£20 more than the i5).
Their usefulness is in expandability when you need a lot of spare ports.


At what point in my post did I say just because your buying a gpu avoid a CPU with igpu? I suggested an Xeon e3 1230 v2 as an alternative to an I5 both ivy and haswell if he was not overclocking. I informed him the xeon e3 1230 v2 does not have an igpu so a graphics card is needed. So you are talking nonsense.

As for an xeon being slower? if NOT OVERCLOCKING It is a good alternative as it has 4 cores and hyper treading 8m cache basically an I7 3770 for the price of an I5. Not to mention the higher quality control and binning process xeons receive. I consider all of the above usefulness.

And next time untill someone mentions you by user name and says "drtoast you're not the most colourful crayon in the box"... Feel free to act like you have a pair and not be offended or insulted. This conversation is over.
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August 1, 2013 9:51:21 AM

SterlingArcher said:
a bunch of self titled

if your definitely getting a gpu forget both of them and get an Xeon 1230v2.


A bunch of, when referring to a group of precisely three people, isnt referring to one or two, that would be one. or a couple, as opposed to the bunch of three.

That certainly sounds like saying if your getting a gpu, buy a xeon. When I asked why? you said because it didnt have an iGPU.

Yes it's over, but don't back out crying "I never said that" next time.
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August 3, 2013 5:37:20 AM

Dtroast what part of "this conversation is over" did you not understand. Seems you have a hard time grasping a lot of things. Just like what part of I did not say " AVOID a cpu with igpu if you are getting a gpu"are you not getting. I want you to quote me using the word AVOID. And also quote me saying in "my opinion".

So I finished with I did not say because , I didn't say it. If you have any problem with my suggestions or information I gave the op . I suggest you run it by a CPU "master"

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