Which CPU for a first time build??

David Mather · Jul 5, 2013

Well as the title says, i'm going to be building my first time soon. I can't decide whether i should get an Ivy bridge i7 3770 or Haswell i7 4770. I will not be overclocking, as i feel i would rather learn a bit more about it first, for when i upgrade it in a few years. The computer will be used for gaming mostly with some video editing, possible some music creating / mixing (might be with a totally other pc, but maybe).

Hope i can get some help

dannyboy2233 · Jul 5, 2013

The 4770 is practically the same as the 3770. However, what I would do is simply spend the extra $30 and get the 4770k. I know that you don't think you will want to overclock, but for $30 it really can't hurt. Plus, I thought the same thing when I bought my computer; but I purchased a 3770k, and now I'm at the stage where I'm working on OCing it, almost a year later. It doesn't have to happen immediately.

smorizio · Jul 5, 2013

The 3xxx ib CPU is a dead slot. There no more 1155 CPU. With the 4xxx CPU and 1150 mb there going to be at lest one more new CPU for that mb pins.

dannyboy2233 · Jul 5, 2013

smorizio :

That is not for sure. There have been many rumors saying that, as well as many rumors saying the opposite.

dannyboy2233 · Jul 5, 2013

u_gonna_squeal_b4_we_cookya :

Correct; however, would you not agree that the extra $30 is worth it in order to be able to expand the power of your computer (without any expenses) later in its life? The "K" actually ends up coming in quite handy, in my experiences.

Munchbot · Jul 5, 2013

dannyboy2233 :

I see... Thanks for copying my sig

Munchbot · Jul 5, 2013

dannyboy2233 :

Some people don't want to OC, they just want a working computer. While the K series CPUs can be handy, they require more expensive motherboards and coolers to be useful, and sometimes, that just isn't worth it.

dannyboy2233 · Jul 5, 2013

Munchbot :

However, people on a strict budget generally don't purchase i7s in the first place. The difference in price for motherboards is going to be something like $30, as is the price of the processor, so for $60, you get the option to increase your processors speed buy 25% or so at some point in the future, increasing your performance when you really need it.
As for the cooler; OP should be getting a good cooler anyway, as most of us think that that is a necessity in any caliber of a build.

Munchbot · Jul 5, 2013

If you want a rig that is mainly for gaming, I recommend the i5-4670k, not an i7. The reason? Games don't use more than four threads at most, and the i5 has those. In fact, the i5-4670k's single-threaded performance is better than the 3770k's, so it will actually be better in games. For when you do the occasional render/ edit, it should be fine as well, it's not like it's a weak CPU.

And an added bonus: For less than the price of the non-overclockable 3770, you get a CPU that's more powerful in games and that overclocks if you ever want to!

dannyboy2233 · Jul 5, 2013

Munchbot :

Can you please bring me up a graph that states that, in CPU-heavy games like Planetside 2, the 4770k performs worse than the 4670k?
Thank you. Also, as we say here at Toms, it's best to get the highest you can now, so that you're prepared for anything. Getting the 4770k means you can do any CPU-heavy gaming, as well as any editing, and it is OCable.

Munchbot · Jul 5, 2013

dannyboy2233 :

Munchbot :

However, people on a strict budget generally don't purchase i7s in the first place. The difference in price for motherboards is going to be something like $30, as is the price of the processor, so for $60, you get the option to increase your processors speed buy 25% or so at some point in the future, increasing your performance when you really need it.
As for the cooler; OP should be getting a good cooler anyway, as most of us think that that is a necessity in any caliber of a build.

But if you overclock in a couple of years, it still won't make a huge difference. Look at an overclocked P4 vs. core 2 duo: Although the clocks are higher on the P4, architectural improvements make the core 2 duo far superior. Overclocking can be useful, but it's more like a short-term gain in that in the long run, it won't make such a huge difference.

Not that overclocking is a bad thing.

dannyboy2233 · Jul 5, 2013

Munchbot :

dannyboy2233 :

But if you overclock in a couple of years, it still won't make a huge difference. Look at an overclocked P4 vs. core 2 duo: Although the clocks are higher on the P4, architectural improvements make the core 2 duo far superior. Overclocking can be useful, but it's more like a short-term gain in that in the long run, it won't make such a huge difference.

Not that overclocking is a bad thing.

I never said that it would bring it to the level of a next-gen processor; that would be ludicrous, so please stop putting words into my mouth. What I said was that it will improve the life of the processor, as you can increase its performance later in life; nothing there about beating the next-gen processors.

Munchbot · Jul 5, 2013

dannyboy2233 :

If you had read my message, you would've seen that I said 3770k, not 4770k. Also, more cores isn't necessarily better. Look at the AMD FX - It has tons of cores, but an i5 still outperforms it, since most programs don't use all of its cores. It may be different with the i5/i7, since they're almost the same processor but one has hyperthreading enabled, but the point is that most things don't use eight threads so it's better to focus on single-core performance.

Munchbot · Jul 5, 2013

dannyboy2233 :

Munchbot :

dannyboy2233 :

But if you overclock in a couple of years, it still won't make a huge difference. Look at an overclocked P4 vs. core 2 duo: Although the clocks are higher on the P4, architectural improvements make the core 2 duo far superior. Overclocking can be useful, but it's more like a short-term gain in that in the long run, it won't make such a huge difference.

Not that overclocking is a bad thing.

I never said that it would bring it to the level of a next-gen processor; that would be ludicrous, so please stop putting words into my mouth. What I said was that it will improve the life of the processor, as you can increase its performance later in life; nothing there about beating the next-gen processors.

Yeah, slightly. But if it's so far behind, wouldn't you upgrade anyway? The difference isn't exactly night and day for most overclocks.

dannyboy2233 · Jul 5, 2013

Munchbot :

However, the ability to hyperthread means that it can perform just as well in games as the 4670k, as well as being able to enable eight cores for when certain programs are threaded for eight cores. In my honest opinion, getting a 4670k is like locking yourself in a hole; computers have been quad-core for quite some time now, and it is evident that gaming systems and computers are moving to eight cores (like the PS4 and Xbox one), meaning that games will very quickly become threaded for eight cores. The 4770k is future-proof; the 4670k is the exact opposite.

dannyboy2233 · Jul 5, 2013

Munchbot :

dannyboy2233 :

Munchbot :

I never said that it would bring it to the level of a next-gen processor; that would be ludicrous, so please stop putting words into my mouth. What I said was that it will improve the life of the processor, as you can increase its performance later in life; nothing there about beating the next-gen processors.

Yeah, slightly. But if it's so far behind, wouldn't you upgrade anyway? The difference isn't exactly night and day for most overclocks.

But it's still something.

Munchbot · Jul 5, 2013

dannyboy2233 :

Munchbot :

However, the ability to hyperthread means that it can perform just as well in games as the 4670k, as well as being able to enable eight cores for when certain programs are threaded for eight cores. In my honest opinion, getting a 4670k is like locking yourself in a hole; computers have been quad-core for quite some time now, and it is evident that gaming systems and computers are moving to eight cores (like the PS4 and Xbox one), meaning that games will very quickly become threaded for eight cores. The 4770k is future-proof; the 4670k is the exact opposite.

I wouldn't say so. Hyperthreading doesn't double your multithreaded performance. It gives it a slight boost, but that isn't even really noticeable in real world scenarios. And with all of this talk about getting the best CPU for gaming, you seem to be forgetting that it's the GPU that counts. A 4670k wouldn't bottleneck 99% of graphics cards out there, and by the time it really does, a 4770k wouldn't be much better.

Munchbot · Jul 5, 2013

dannyboy2233 :

Munchbot :

dannyboy2233 :

Munchbot :

I never said that it would bring it to the level of a next-gen processor; that would be ludicrous, so please stop putting words into my mouth. What I said was that it will improve the life of the processor, as you can increase its performance later in life; nothing there about beating the next-gen processors.

Yeah, slightly. But if it's so far behind, wouldn't you upgrade anyway? The difference isn't exactly night and day for most overclocks.

But it's still something.

It's something you can also do with a 4670k, kind sir.

dannyboy2233 · Jul 5, 2013

Munchbot :

dannyboy2233 :

Munchbot :

dannyboy2233 :

Yeah, slightly. But if it's so far behind, wouldn't you upgrade anyway? The difference isn't exactly night and day for most overclocks.

But it's still something.

It's something you can also do with a 4670k, kind sir.

Then why are you bashing on it so much if you recommended it as well, "kind sir"? That seems mighty hypocritical to me...

Munchbot · Jul 5, 2013

It's fun to do and it can give you a slight performance boost, but in the long term, it can't replace an upgrade.

I was saying that you recommended overclocking and an i7, so I merely mentioned that for the price an un-overclockable one, you can get an overclockable i5 that performs nearly as well. Also, "Getting the highest you can now" doesn't ever work: If you bought a 990x for 1000$, you're now in a bad position because it's outperformed by stuff that's 1/3 of the price. With computers, you get what works now and then upgrade it later once something better comes out.

Especially if you plan on upgrading, why spend the extra money now? By the time you upgrade, the performance boost won't be that huge in comparison to what you get from an upgrade. As you know, as performance goes up price goes up exponentially.

griptwister · Jul 5, 2013

Let me just state this. If AMD were to have done what Intel did with their CPUs. It would mean certain death. I don't give a slip about LGA 1155 being a dead socket. There will be no way that there will be any new and just awesome tech will be coming for Intel quad cores anytime soon. And sure as heck I know there won't be any 6 cores i5s and i7s coming to the product line up for z87. Infact, when it comes time to upgrade your CPU they'll already have released broadwell.

Go with the 3770K and save yourself some dough and get more performance.

dannyboy2233 · Jul 5, 2013

Munchbot :

Then by your standards, we should all be using Athlons and GTX 610s. You are essentially arguing for a bad computer; and you do realize that waiting to pay simply prolongs what is going to happen anyway? Whether you get something good originally, or upgrade later, you're still only really going to get four or so great years of performance out of it until you have to upgrade everything. You can choose to start out with a good CPU (like the 4770k) and that will last you longer until more money for an upgrade, or a 4670k, which (since it is only quad-core) will most likely need to be upgraded much sooner when things become optimized for eight cores. What you're saying is to simply start out worse, and then a few years later get a bit better; what I'm saying is to start out great, keep the the CPU for much longer, and then you are also capable of getting a better upgrade, as your upgrade will be later in time than if you purchased a lower-level processor.

dannyboy2233 · Jul 5, 2013

griptwister :

Exactly! Although whether the OP wants to go with 3770k or 4770k depends on their willingness to go up a tad in price for a little upgrade in performance.

Munchbot · Jul 5, 2013

dannyboy2233 :

No. You get what works now. You get what plays the resolution you want at the settings you want, and what does it for maybe 2 years. A 610 doesn't work now, it's too weak. What I'm saying is that you shouldn't go overkill because in the long run it isn't worth it.

Also - "8 cores"? The 4770k is still quadcore, but with hyperthreading enabled. In 1-2 years, all games won't be optimized for 8 threads since frankly, nobody has them. 90% of people don't have 8 threads. And also, why not get a powerful GPU now instead of a powerful CPU? It would last a lot longer, since it's the GPU which gives you in-game performance!

goonbar79 · Jul 5, 2013

If you are looking for a high thread Intel CPU for video/audio transcoding tasks as well as gaming, but you don't plan to overclock, I recommend you consider Haswell Xeon cpus. See below.

Xeon E3-1230V3 - 8 thread – 3.3Ghz - no iGPU - $265
Xeon E3-1245V3 – 8 threads – 3.4Ghz – HD P4600 - $290
i7-4770 – 8 threads – 3.4Ghz – HD 4600 - $320
i7-4770K – 8 threads – 3.4Ghz – HD 4600 - $350

You can be saving about $55 by purchasing E3-1230V3 instead of 4770 (non K). Most brand mobos should take the Xeon since these are essentially the same chips (check with OEM first just to be safe). The only difference is the TDP and slightly lower clock and that it is missing the iGPU HD 4600. If you want the iGPU, you can consider E3-1245V3, with HD P4600.

Unless you plan to overclock, I wouldn’t waste money on buying the K chip + Z87 board + cooler. At the end, the extra performance = much higher price. Those of you saying that it is just a bit more expensive, please describe "a bit more." If you opt for a Xeon chip + H87 board + no cooler, that would save you $100+. Do you research first so that you don't miss out on any feature that you may use (i.e. ssd caching), but if you know what you want, and you plan it out from the start, you can save a lot by getting the "sweet spot" configuration.

Which CPU for a first time build??

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