New PC for Photoshop/LR and some gaming

sherpa25 · Jul 11, 2013

Hi,

I want to replace my 4 year-old PC (Giga P45-EP3L, C2D e7400 w/ 4GB RAM in Win 7 32-bit) as it keeps konking out and also can't keep up with my photo editing. Before acting up, I also thought of converting to Win 7 64-bit (from 32bit) but I could no longer find DDR2 RAM's so might as well upgrade.

Preferences:
1. Uses:
a. Photo editing: Photoshop CS6 and LR6 and NR software (Noiseware and Nik Software). RAW files average of 22mb each, and would like to edit a couple of photos at a time. I mention this because right now, editing 2 with some filters take some time already. No 3D but very few video muxing of HD mkv files (if this is the right term) when I downscale for ipad use.
b. Games: Just a few new ones (Tomb Raider 2013, Ghost Recon Future Soldier and Splinter Cell Conviction, and F1 2012).
c. General browsing (multiple pages open at once), Office apps.

2. I currently have 5 usb3 drives and 2-esata drives that I alternate on ports in 2 PCI x1 cards (1 e-sata and 1 usb3). I believe most z77 boards now have usb3.0 so that won't be an issue, but only a few have e-sata (Gigabyte Z77-UD3H). I'm not sure if it's better to just go with on-boards e-sata or still use my e-sata cards, or both (why not).

Anyway, I'd like to get some recommendations for a build not too expensive, with probably the following components at most. I'm not in the US so I'll just mention estimate prices in $ based on their costs here. I'll also mention those I have in mind.

CPU: i5-3570k ($210 here), as the price seems to be average. Initially I don't plan to OC, but since it's like $20 only from the non-k, I might as well get it in case I decide to slightly OC later after further research, since I'm not too knowledgeable w/ this yet.

I also was looking at the i7-3770 but the price difference of over $100! didn't appeal to me.

MOBO: Gigabyte Z77-UD3H because it has e-sata at the rear I/O, but I'm not sure if it's worth the cost ($190 here) since I don't need the m-sata. Haven't read yet much about z87 to know the new features. It's like $25 more over the z77 version, but if features are worth-while, I may consider it. BTW, Asrock Extreme4 is very difficult to find over here nowadays (most have gone sold out).

GPU: Palit or Inno3D Geforce 650ti – as I've been reading that the 650ti is a good-priced card ($150 here). I believe this will be more for gaming and PS CS6 as LR doesn't use much GPU. I don't think I'll go SLI as I've read that a single GPU would suffice for these games.

SSD: Vertex 3 120Gb ($116)
RAM: 16Gb (dual) ddr3 1333 G.Skill ($75) or 1600 Corsair vengeance CL9 ($97).
PSU: Seasonic S12 520W ($70)

Other components I have models in mind but have to look for here physically, since some stores don't have all models available:
CPU cooler? and casing. I will use my existing LG IPS234 monitor for now.

Recommendations for these would be appreciated. Thanks.

princejeet · Jul 11, 2013

Hey
let us know your total budget first plzz.
Then we can help u our best.
Thank you.

Budge414 · Jul 11, 2013

With the GPU, find out whether your video editing software utilises CUDA (nVidia) or OpenCL (AMD), then decide on what card to look for. On the AMD side see if you can muster up some cash for a 7850, it is a much better card than the 650 either way. I'd also recommend one of these 120GB SSDs; Sandisk Extreme, Samsung 840, Kingston Hyper X 3K, in that order, but if one is only sale or fairly cheap then get it.

For cooling, at the very least go for a 212 EVO or 212X. If you don't mind spending a little more, Noctua NH-C12P SE14 or Zalman CNPS9900MAX-B any of these are great coolers for the price and will handle an overclocked 3570K.

As for the case it's very much a personal preference in terms of looks, but there are some much better at certain price ranges; NZXT Source 210 White or Black, CoolerMaster HAF 912 or 922, Corsair Carbide 200R, CoolerMaster Storm Scout 2. Any of these would be my recommendation and range from around $30 to $80.

sherpa25 · Jul 11, 2013

Thanks for the replies.

@princejeet, I'm looking at keeping it around $900 max. It 'may' increase a bit, but really depends on the combination of components and features. But yes, this is generally my target budget. which is also why I was thinking an i7-3770 may be too much.

@Budge414, thanks for these recommendations. I believe PS CS6 does utilize CUDA. But I've read that unless I do 3D, then a GPU might not be much needed. This is also why I was really looking at the 650ti more for the occassional gaming.

Yes, glad I had the 212 EVO in mind, but I'll try to look at the Noctua and Zalman too, if they're available here. Same w/ the CM HAF 912, I was also looking at that, and will scout on the others your recommended too, hoping they're available here.

Thanks.

princejeet · Jul 11, 2013

1. For video editing you will need hyperthreading for best performance and that is on i7. It is much better than i5 for video editing or something HD work.
2. For video editing and playing new games on high fps u will need better gpu like gtx 760 or 770.
3. Yes hyper 212 evo is enough for cpu cooling for ivy bridge.
4. You dont need to upgrade your windows. Windows 7 32bit is good. There is no noticeable difference between 32bit or 64 bit.
I hope it helps.
Thank you.

Budge414 · Jul 11, 2013

princejeet :

There isn't performance-wise, but with 8GB RAM there is definitely a difference. x86 won't recognise over 4GB RAM if I'm reading correctly.

genz · Jul 11, 2013

Photoshop REALLY benefits from hyper-threading, so I would recommend you try and up-chip to a 3770k or 2600k if possible. A 2600k will still be a far better choice than a 3570k for PS work even if it is a generation behind now. (10% performance difference between it and a 3770k and OCs far better when you're interested.) Hell get a 2600 non-K, it will still serve you better.

As for GPU, steer clear of AMD, CUDA runs Adobe suite and really speeds up some of the CUDA enabled effects processing. The thing is that CUDA performance doesn't really scale with graphics performance linearly. e.g The Titan is faster at CUDA than any other consumer card, but is slower than the GTX 690 at gaming. I would really consider dropping the 650 in the favor of a 560 or 460 as the 60's tend to have better CUDA grunt and there is alwas a gulf in performance between the 50s and 60s (since the ancient days of the 6500 and the 6600gt all cards are considered 'non-performance models' till thier past 5). This is reinforced by the fact that all the CUDA benchmarks I've seen didn't even bother to put the 650 on them seeing as it's basically a GTX 260 performance wise.

Budge414 · Jul 11, 2013

Here's to give a bit of an idea. Some of it is over-stated, a few of the products are cheaper where you're getting them (RAM

), but then something like the GPU might be more, so I just tried to make up the $900 in the end. Have a look at some of the options, do some research, and ask any questions if you need.

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant / Benchmarks

CPU: Intel Core i5-3570K 3.4GHz Quad-Core Processor ($217.99 @ NCIX US)
CPU Cooler: Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO 82.9 CFM Sleeve Bearing CPU Cooler ($29.98 @ Outlet PC)
Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-Z77X-D3H ATX LGA1155 Motherboard ($117.99 @ NCIX US)
Memory: Corsair Vengeance 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($125.99 @ Amazon)
Storage: Sandisk Extreme 120GB 2.5" Solid State Disk ($94.99 @ Microcenter)
Storage: Western Digital Caviar Blue 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($66.61 @ Outlet PC)
Video Card: MSI GeForce GTX 650 Ti Boost 2GB Video Card ($159.98 @ Newegg)
Case: Corsair 200R ATX Mid Tower Case ($49.99 @ Microcenter)
Power Supply: Corsair Builder 600W 80 PLUS Bronze Certified ATX12V Power Supply ($43.00 @ Newegg)
Total: $906.52
(Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available.)
(Generated by PCPartPicker 2013-07-11 08:06 EDT-0400)

genz · Jul 11, 2013

Dropping to 1333 RAM will make next to no difference and make him an few bucks to go toward that GPU upgrade. Also, he doesn't want a HDD (I assume he has one) so that gets him back about $120 and should pay for the better GPU and CPU.

I've edited your build on pcparts picker.

PCPartPicker part list: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/1fvQo
Price breakdown by merchant: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/1fvQo/by_merchant/
Benchmarks: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/1fvQo/benchmarks/

CPU: Intel Core i7-3770K 3.5GHz Quad-Core Processor ($249.99 @ Microcenter)
CPU Cooler: Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO 82.9 CFM Sleeve Bearing CPU Cooler ($29.98 @ Outlet PC)
Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-Z77X-D3H ATX LGA1155 Motherboard ($117.99 @ NCIX US)
Memory: Corsair XMS 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR3-1333 Memory ($104.99 @ Best Buy)
Storage: Sandisk Extreme 120GB 2.5" Solid State Disk ($94.99 @ Microcenter)
Video Card: Asus GeForce GTX 660 2GB Video Card ($184.99 @ NCIX US)
Power Supply: Corsair Builder 600W 80 PLUS Bronze Certified ATX12V Power Supply ($43.00 @ Newegg)
Total: $825.93
(Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available.)
(Generated by PCPartPicker 2013-07-11 08:41 EDT-0400)

Try that. There's a convenient lil newegg deal going on if you buy a 3770k and a 660 at the same time too lol.

princejeet · Jul 11, 2013

genz :

Dropping to 1333 RAM will make next to no difference and make him an few bucks to go toward that GPU upgrade. Also, he doesn't want a HDD (I assume he has one) so that gets him back about $120 and should pay for the better GPU and CPU.

I've edited your build on pcparts picker.

PCPartPicker part list: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/1fvQo
Price breakdown by merchant: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/1fvQo/by_merchant/
Benchmarks: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/1fvQo/benchmarks/

CPU: Intel Core i7-3770K 3.5GHz Quad-Core Processor ($249.99 @ Microcenter)
CPU Cooler: Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO 82.9 CFM Sleeve Bearing CPU Cooler ($29.98 @ Outlet PC)
Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-Z77X-D3H ATX LGA1155 Motherboard ($117.99 @ NCIX US)
Memory: Corsair XMS 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR3-1333 Memory ($104.99 @ Best Buy)
Storage: Sandisk Extreme 120GB 2.5" Solid State Disk ($94.99 @ Microcenter)
Video Card: Asus GeForce GTX 660 2GB Video Card ($184.99 @ NCIX US)
Power Supply: Corsair Builder 600W 80 PLUS Bronze Certified ATX12V Power Supply ($43.00 @ Newegg)
Total: $825.93
(Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available.)
(Generated by PCPartPicker 2013-07-11 08:41 EDT-0400)

Try that. There's a convenient lil newegg deal going on if you buy a 3770k and a 660 at the same time too lol.

+1
Its nice build.
But get a better gpu like gtx 760. You can drop your psu to 550w from corsair, sesonic or xfx brand.
i hope it helps.
Thank you.

sherpa25 · Jul 11, 2013

Thanks again.

Yes, I want to utilize Win 7 64-bit access to memory above 4Gb since PS CS6 & LR are said to utilize a lot of RAM.

Would the difference from the i5-3570 and i7-3770 be very significant? The price difference here is like $120 I tried searching for photoshop CS6 use w/ these but couldn't find any comparison. Unfortunately, it's very hard to find brand new CPU's here for older models, so far only saw 2nd hand/used i7-2600 for around $210, but not sure I'd want to go for 2nd hand.

Saw the GTX 560 and perhaps I might reconsider it. I surmise the 660 would even be better? Though I just checked, the price is much higher, although price/performance ratio seems to be better. Would the 560 / 660 be significantly better for both Photoshop and the games I mentioned?

Thanks for the suggestions as these give me some options. I'm still balancing the overall cost/performance for my needs. My other concern now is the motherboard. Any equivalent options to the UD3H? Trying to find a slightly cheaper alternative w/ similar specs, as I think the m-sata is an extra feature that's just raising it's price.

Budge414 · Jul 11, 2013

Yeah didn't really consider him not needing a HDD. With the RAM though, like I said, it's cheaper where he's getting it, his post says $97 for 16GB 1600MHz Corsair Vengeance, no need to go for 1333.

@Princejeet I don't think another $70 for a 760 is necessary, he is only planning on mild gaming, however, I think $20 more for a 7870 is a much better option. It beats a 660 in gaming now by a fair margin after (increasingly) better driver updates. Plus, PhotoShop has adopted OpenCL acceleration (After some quick research, not hard to find), with great success apparently, so an AMD card now makes more sense. Of course the 7850 2gb is still a very viable option and will save around $30-$40.

EDIT: @genz - Not sure if you removed the case purposely, or if he doesn't need one and I missed it. If OP wants to save money on that too, get the NZXT Source 210, currently on sale for $25: http://pcpartpicker.com/part/nzxt-case-s210002

Budge414 · Jul 11, 2013

sherpa25 :

When Hyper-threading is under full utilization, definitely. You won't notice a massive difference in gaming though, the biggest benefit is in video editing/rendering, and it will make a difference for PS too (lol didn't mean that xD), whether it's worth $120? Not sure, but with the edits made to the build it is still under budget, it might not be worth pondering.
Regarding mSATA, the Z77X-D3H on that build does have on-board mSATA, same as the UD3H.

genz · Jul 11, 2013

Budge414 :

The OP said he would be buying the case offline. Also a radeon is not as clear cut an idea. Even though Adobe's core supports OpenCL, the plugins are on a case by case basis and CUDA has been around much longer so has much more support.

You get a 15%-35% boost from threaded functions with hyperthreading so actually a 3770k is a no brainer to me. PS is most definitely a heavily threaded program when running expensive effects on a large/complex images, just because it doesn't take days to render doesn't lessen the speed boost. And the 660 is TWICE as fast as the 650 too.

$200 for a on-average 25-50% faster system is a no brainer, especially when you can mitigate the cost in downgrading to 5% slower RAM. I agree about thew 760 being too much though.

And OP, stick to the onboard e-Sata. It's been reviewed and intels on board sockets are slightly faster due to having a shorter signal path.

sherpa25 · Jul 11, 2013

Thanks again guys. I was looking at the UD3H because of the e-sata port at the rear. Would it be just as good if I just use my jMicron e-sata card on one of the X1 slots? Yes, I don't plan on getting other SATA drives, as I have a enough. Just plan on getting 1 SSD.

Wow, those prices are so low compared to here in Manila! This is how these items would cost here now (modified a few items close to those suggested, based on what I've gotten prices for, so far).

CPU: Intel Core i7-3770K 3.5GHz Quad-Core Processor ($341) --->$310 for the non-k
CPU Cooler: Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO 82.9 CFM Sleeve Bearing CPU Cooler ($47)
Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-Z77X-D3H ATX LGA1155 Motherboard ($156)
Memory: 1600 Corsair vengeance CL9 ($97) -----------> (suggested was - Corsair XMS 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR3-1333 Memory)
Storage: Vertex 3 120Gb ($116) -----------> (suggested was - Sandisk Extreme 120GB 2.5" Solid State Disk ($94.99 @ Microcenter)
Video Card: Asus GeForce GTX 660 2GB Video Card ($214) ----> $300 for the ti version
Power Supply: Corsair 620HX ($84)
Total: $1,055 (still w/o casing)

@Budge414, I believe the D3H and UD3H have mSATA, as per specs from Gigabyte., last I checked.

Budge414 · Jul 11, 2013

sherpa25 :

Thanks again guys. I was looking at the UD3H because of the e-sata port at the rear. Would it be just as good if I just use my jMicron e-sata card on one of the X1 slots? Yes, I don't plan on getting other SATA drives, as I have a enough. Just plan on getting 1 SSD.

Wow, those prices are so low compared to here in Manila! This is how these items would cost here now (modified a few items close to those suggested, based on what I've gotten prices for, so far).

CPU: Intel Core i7-3770K 3.5GHz Quad-Core Processor ($341) --->$310 for the non-k
CPU Cooler: Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO 82.9 CFM Sleeve Bearing CPU Cooler ($47)
Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-Z77X-D3H ATX LGA1155 Motherboard ($156)
Memory: 1600 Corsair vengeance CL9 ($97) -----------> (suggested was - Corsair XMS 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR3-1333 Memory)
Storage: Vertex 3 120Gb ($116) -----------> (suggested was - Sandisk Extreme 120GB 2.5" Solid State Disk ($94.99 @ Microcenter)
Video Card: Asus GeForce GTX 660 2GB Video Card ($214) ----> $300 for the ti version
Power Supply: Corsair 620HX ($84)
Total: $1,055 (still w/o casing)

@Budge414, I believe the D3H and UD3H have mSATA, as per specs from Gigabyte., last I checked.

Yeah the Z77X is a good board, you'll be happy with it. As for everything else, it helps to see what is available. What website are you buying from mate?

Budge414 · Jul 11, 2013

genz :

I'm really not trying to bust anything here, I just wanted things to be clear. I think it matters very much on a. What version of CS he is using and b. Whether it is only PhotoShop the OP plans to use. The capabilities vary depending on which actual program/features being used.

To get things straight, if you ARE using PhotoShop CS6, the new MGE ONLY supports OpenCL, and can NOT use CUDA.
This is taken from this page: http://helpx.adobe.com/photoshop/kb/photoshop-cs6-gpu-faq.html#Graphics hardware not officially supported message
"
Mercury Graphics Engine

The Mercury Graphics Engine (MGE) represents features that use video card processor, or GPU, acceleration. In Photoshop CS6, this new engine delivers near-instant results when editing with key tools such as Liquify, Warp, Lighting Effects, and the Oil Paint filter. The new MGE delivers unprecedented responsiveness for a fluid feel as you work.

MGE is new to Photoshop CS6 and uses both the OpenGL and OpenCL frameworks. It does not use the proprietary CUDA framework from nVidia.

MGE requires a supported video card and updated driver. If you do not have a supported card, performance is degraded. In most cases, the acceleration is lost and the feature runs in the normal CPU mode. However, there are some features that don't work without a supported video card. "

Where things become very confusing is when using Premier Pro CS6, and the MPE (Mercury Playback Engine). The way I understand it, if you are using Premier Pro CS6, you need a GPU that occurs on this list: http://helpx.adobe.com/x-productkb/policy-pricing/system-requirements-premiere-pro.html - The latest cards being the GTX 570 and GTX 580, no 6xx series cards are on this list, and only 2 AMD mobile GPUs are found. However, if you are using Premier Pro CC (Creative Cloud), you'll find that only certain CUDA GPUs (The two previous 5xx cards) and the corresponding 6xx series cards (GTX 670, GTX 680) can make use of it, whereas on the AMD OpenCL side, there is no such restriction. See here: http://www.adobe.com/products/premiere/tech-specs.html

Couple more reference links here that led me to all this:
http://blogs.adobe.com/premierepro/2012/05/opencl-and-premiere-pro-cs6.html

http://blogs.adobe.com/premierepro/2011/02/cuda-mercury-playback-engine-and-adobe-premiere-pro.html

I apologise for contaminating this thread, but I found I wasn't the only one confused about it all and had to find out for myself, becoming much clearer on the topic along the way. Please don't hate me it's like OCD I just HAVE to know!

sherpa25 · Jul 11, 2013

No problem at all, Budge414. Yes, I saw that info too. Quite confused now and not sure if the hack will work. Nonetheless, I'm using PS CS6 and work primarily with photos, not much video editing. I saw some features affecting stills though.

I'm buying stuff locally in stores here in Manila, not online.

genz · Sep 6, 2013

Budge414 :

genz :

I'm really not trying to bust anything here, I just wanted things to be clear. I think it matters very much on a. What version of CS he is using and b. Whether it is only PhotoShop the OP plans to use. The capabilities vary depending on which actual program/features being used.

To get things straight, if you ARE using PhotoShop CS6, the new MGE ONLY supports OpenCL, and can NOT use CUDA.
This is taken from this page: http://helpx.adobe.com/photoshop/kb/photoshop-cs6-gpu-faq.html#Graphics hardware not officially supported message
"
Mercury Graphics Engine

The Mercury Graphics Engine (MGE) represents features that use video card processor, or GPU, acceleration. In Photoshop CS6, this new engine delivers near-instant results when editing with key tools such as Liquify, Warp, Lighting Effects, and the Oil Paint filter. The new MGE delivers unprecedented responsiveness for a fluid feel as you work.

MGE is new to Photoshop CS6 and uses both the OpenGL and OpenCL frameworks. It does not use the proprietary CUDA framework from nVidia.

MGE requires a supported video card and updated driver. If you do not have a supported card, performance is degraded. In most cases, the acceleration is lost and the feature runs in the normal CPU mode. However, there are some features that don't work without a supported video card. "

Where things become very confusing is when using Premier Pro CS6, and the MPE (Mercury Playback Engine). The way I understand it, if you are using Premier Pro CS6, you need a GPU that occurs on this list: http://helpx.adobe.com/x-productkb/policy-pricing/system-requirements-premiere-pro.html - The latest cards being the GTX 570 and GTX 580, no 6xx series cards are on this list, and only 2 AMD mobile GPUs are found. However, if you are using Premier Pro CC (Creative Cloud), you'll find that only certain CUDA GPUs (The two previous 5xx cards) and the corresponding 6xx series cards (GTX 670, GTX 680) can make use of it, whereas on the AMD OpenCL side, there is no such restriction. See here: http://www.adobe.com/products/premiere/tech-specs.html

Couple more reference links here that led me to all this:
http://blogs.adobe.com/premierepro/2012/05/opencl-and-premiere-pro-cs6.html

http://blogs.adobe.com/premierepro/2011/02/cuda-mercury-playback-engine-and-adobe-premiere-pro.html

I apologise for contaminating this thread, but I found I wasn't the only one confused about it all and had to find out for myself, becoming much clearer on the topic along the way. Please don't hate me it's like OCD I just HAVE to know!

Sorry, I went on holiday, but just for the sake of closure, that again applies to the engine, but not the plugins. Unless you use vanilla Premiere, which btw I find extremely limited, you will want a nVidia card simply for the fact that it can do both, regardless of whether it is slower at OCL than an equivalent Radeon.

New PC for Photoshop/LR and some gaming

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