Insulation (Condensation Proofing)

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Island6

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So I plan on doing a custom dual Peltier cooling system where I put a copper plate on the CPU then add a Peltier unit then put another copper plate on that unit then put another Peltier unit on that plate then put another copper plate on that unit finally putting a water block over that and water cooling it. If that sounds complicated, here's a somewhat easier representation of the order of things starting from the cpu:

CPU|Copper Plate|Peltier1|Copper Plate|Peltier2|Water Block.

But the problem here is condensation. I've watched a lot of videos on Youtube to get an idea of how much condensation one unit would produce and it's quite a significant amount; though nothing like LN2. Turns out that no one has ever tried this dual Peltier Water cooling solution before and I'll be the first to do so (yay). So here's the deal. I don't want to use any of that ugly looking resin or whatever it is and apply it with a brush on my motherboard. Because lets face it, that stuff is ugly. What I did manage to find online was liquid electrical tape. Then I found something even better than that; liquid electrical tape spray. So I was wondering if I can use the spray one instead. The problem is, I don't know what specific areas I should spray (knowing me I'd probably spray the whole thing for the lulz) But I want to spray the smallest amount of area on the board as possible while still rendering it safe from condensation. I would also like to use neoprene as it looks much nicer and it in some cases easier to manipulate. So if anyone can help me with this, that would be great. Also any tips on insulating the GPU without making it look ugly. Thanks!
 
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4Ryan6


My setup draws 200w for one energized TEC assembly and 400w when the 2nd TEC assembly is energized, that's actual tested wall power load.

One energized TEC pulls a constant 200w and is always producing a water temperature 7.5c below ambient room temperature without my office AC running.

I only run my computer when I use it, so we're not talking a constant 24/7 yearly electrical load and those wattage usage loads are totally acceptable to me, but do need to be disclosed to anyone that even would consider...
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Island6

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Thanks! That method seems a bit scary LOL. I mean, I just watched a vid on Youtube of a guy applying it and it's like invisible. What exactly does the grease do?
 
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inzone

inzone

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First off there is no benefit to be had from stacking the pellitiers, the main objective of the pellitier is to absorb the heat from the top of the CPU and transfer it to either a water block or CPU heat sink. If you understand the way a pellitier works you will see that. So the second pellitier will only be absorbing the heat from the first and this process would not be increasing the capability of the first pellitier. It's the final block that will be doing the job of taking away the heat and dispursing it.

Second the spray electrical tape will not only not prevent moisture but will also make a mess of your motherboard. The thing you want to use is dielectric grease and neoprene foam pads, the beauty of dielectric grease is that it's totally non conductive so you would not have to remove every bit of it and it easily wipes off.

http://www.etrailer.com/Accessories-and-Parts/LubriMatic/11755.html

If you really want to reduce the temp of the CPU to sub zero temps then you want to invest in something like this.

http://www.frozencpu.com/products/6233/ex-vap-15/Cooler_Express_2013_Super_Single_Evaporator_CPU_Cooling_Unit_w_Upgraded_Socket_Kit_-_All_Sockets_478_754_775_1155_1156_1366_2011_939_940_AM2_Xeon_CE-48-S-1C.html?tl=g49

This is not LN2 but it operates on the same principle of air conditioning with a phase changing gas that will reduce the temps to as much as -50c
 
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inzone

inzone

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I'm not trying to discourage someone from experimenting but just to think things through before wasting money, if Island6 wants to try stacking then it might be a good idea not to put the second copper plate. The problem with the experiment is that there isn't anything that will work like a pellitier except another one and in order to increase the efficiency of the first one you have to be able to remove the heat at the same speed as the TEC and yes you have the second one that will do that but then what? Your stuck with either a water block or a CPU heat sink which if you did have one that worked that well then you may as well put it on the first TEC.

I think that if he has a lot of money then he can get the Phase Change device and put the CPU in a deep freeze.
 
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Island6

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Thanks for the reply! Saved me from a lot of mess haha. Although I am familiar with the phase change system and its been proven that it's actually over priced for what it does. My dads an engineer and knows the way refrigeration units work inside out and even wanted to craft a custom unit for my build. But since I plan on upgrading things I opted to just go for a peltier solution. So now that you told me about this different spray, how would I go about applying that to my GPU? And yes I do intend on keeping the rather aesthetically pleasing cover on LOL.
 
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inzone

inzone

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Your main objective is to have something that stays soft and doesn't get hard because when something gets hard it shrinks a bit and causes a small space between it and what it's applied to. So that's why you need something like Dielectric grease that will stay in the same state and not change so that when it's applied to the motherboard CPU socket area there will be no space for the condensation to form.

Yes the phase change device is expensive and at one time I was considering going with one but I had trouble justifying spending that much money to cool one component. So I went with water cooling and found that with a properly set up water cooling loop you can get some good overclocking and some low temps that are good for the component.
 
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schmuckley

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I use LET (Liquid Electrical Tape) on the back.Cover the socket half of the board with 2-3 coats.
on top..I'd use Kneadable eraser.
Ok..here's how it goes..plug socket around IHS withe eraser..then do around socket up to VRMs..
up to top edge of board..over to RAM slot..and down to pcie slot..make sure everything is below the level of top of IHS.
Then..you take a shop towel and make a cpu-cutout in the middle and lay that over the eraser.
Once you get your cooling-mathingy on..(TEC) wrap it with shop towels or cloth or something.
It would probably be better if the board is laying flat.
edit:If not super-cold..just plug the socket and go around a little ways with eraser..and on the back, too.The cutout shop towel is good.I do it like that when i throw ice into my bong cooler.
 
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Island6

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Thanks. One last thing, do you have like any pictures of how that grease looks like on a board when neatly applied? I'm going to be implementing this cooling system in about 2-3 3930k Gaming/Editing builds before I include it in my upcoming Xeon E7-4870 project. I just want everything to look nice (I'm not the type to get my hands dirty but if I have to, I probably will LOL)
 
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Island6

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Will do. The build will include the following:
Asus Rampage IV Extreme
i7 3930k
Corsair Vengeance 32GB
Sapphire Vapor-X 7970 6GB (Two of these)
Coolermaster 1000w Silent Pro Modular
Intel WL Centrino Advanced-N Dual Band Bluetooth RTL (Wifi PCI card)
Pioneer BDR-208DBK-BD-RE R±W (Optical Drive)
Samsung 840 Series 120GB SSD
WD Black 1TB Internal HDD 7200RPM
NZXT Phantom 820
Logitech MK320 Wireless (Not too crazy about keyboards)
Logitech Performance mouse MX

I was going to do a dual Titan setup but I figured since I've always been with AMD I should save that for another build and not tamper with that yet. Also, this setup was going to include the new 8970 chipset, but that has yet to be released and I don't think I can wait that long due to my anxiousness to build this lol.

 
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inzone

inzone

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With the 3930k how much are you looking to overclock? My setup is very similar and I also have the 3930k with the Asus Rampage IV Extreme and I have the CPU overclocked to 4.7ghz on water.

Also I do have dual Titans also water cooled and 32gb of Corsair Dominator Platinum and three Samsung 840 pro 256gb SSDs and a SeaSonic 1250w PSU.

The Asus board is extremely easy to overclock and all you need is a good cooling system for the CPU and you can get some serious overclocks.
 
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Island6

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Nice setup man; haha I'll be fooling around with some Titans when I have free time. Anyways, I'm looking at a clock of 4.7ghz the least with the goal being around 4.8-4.9. Possibly 5 because I've seen some videos and read some stuff that some people went as high as 4.7ghz just on air cooling (Pretty hefty heat sinks though). Based on the Peltier unit, 4.8 - 4.9 sounds nice. Though I will try to hit 5.
 
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Island6

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Ok, slight change of plans. I'm going to be running a "chilled" water cooled loop instead of the TEC being placed directly on the cpu itself as that wouldn't run as efficient. It would result in no condensation and would be a much cleaner setup. Though I would have to run two loops; one to the cpu and one to the TEC. Any thoughts on how I can do that with minimal fuss?
 
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Island6

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Well actually now that I thought about it all morning; I don't think I'll be messing around with Peltiers lol. Is there another way you would recommend to have a chilled water cooling setup?
 
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inzone

inzone

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Anything more then a heat sink/fan or a closed water cooler will begin to get expensive. A custom water loop is about as cheap as you can get for cooling. There are water chillers and phase change units but the price tag is high.
Koolance just introduced a water cooler that uses sub-ambient temps to cool the liquid and is sort of like an air conditioner and will use the refrigerant to cool the liquid. Condensation would be a concern if the humidity got too high.

http://koolance.com/exc-800-portable-800W-recirculating-chiller

http://www.performance-pcs.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=59_373&products_id=32957
 
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Island6

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Those 2 units would be a waste of money. It's funny because they're so overpriced because they're crafted for PC use but you can build something that takes you down to -30°C for literally a fraction of the price. I could buy that, but it's like $1,000 down the drain that I can spend on something else like another GPU. So yeah, I'll plan out a custom chiller. Would you guys recommend insulating my tubing with neoprene or something to prevent condensation?
 
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