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Question about the speed of a Solid State Hybrid Drive

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July 23, 2013 9:56:32 AM

So, I'm planing a new high performance build and I was originally considering buying a full out SSD. Then I heard about Solid State Hybrid drives that supposedly combine the speed of a SSD with the capacity of an HDD. Anyways, I was wondering if the speed of a Hybrid Drive is really as close to that of an SSD to the point where your machine opperates on a Hybrid Drive like it would on an SSD.
:??: 
Thanks Guys!!

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a b G Storage
July 23, 2013 10:02:10 AM
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The hybrid drive caches frequently used data on its own little internal "SSD". When you're accessing that data, performance will be virtually identical to an SSD. When you're accessing data that is only rarely used, performance will not be as good.
July 23, 2013 10:03:46 AM

Sakkura said:
The hybrid drive caches frequently used data on its own little internal "SSD". When you're accessing that data, performance will be virtually identical to an SSD. When you're accessing data that is only rarely used, performance will not be as good.


So, what about the OS? Will that run as fast an on a full-out SSD?
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a b G Storage
July 23, 2013 10:05:26 AM

Most of the OS is frequently used data, so that should run pretty much as on an SSD. Boot times, for example, are virtually identical.
July 23, 2013 10:06:14 AM

Sakkura said:
Most of the OS is frequently used data, so that should run pretty much as on an SSD. Boot times, for example, are virtually identical.


What about frequently used programs?
a b G Storage
July 23, 2013 10:08:55 AM

Not even close I have a hybrid in my laptop and yes it boots up faster than a normal hdd but after that file copies and game loads ect. are not much better. keep in mind 8 gigs of ssd space to cache 750 gigs of hdd space. whatever is kept in the cach is much faster but all the rest is the same speed as a 7200 rpm laptop drive. I have an SSD in my desktop and if you have that option open to you go that way it is so much better you will never look back.

Thent
a b G Storage
July 23, 2013 10:09:03 AM

zackart98 said:
So, I'm planing a new high performance build and I was originally considering buying a full out SSD. Then I heard about Solid State Hybrid drives that supposedly combine the speed of a SSD with the capacity of an HDD. Anyways, I was wondering if the speed of a Hybrid Drive is really as close to that of an SSD to the point where your machine opperates on a Hybrid Drive like it would on an SSD.
:??: 
Thanks Guys!!


Hybrid are for poor people :) 

that is , If you can buy SSD dont go hybrid.

What hybrid does , is that the first time you load a file from the harddisk , it stores it in the SSD as well . so the NEXT time you access the same file it will be from the SSD .. this is called Caching. it is the same way when you open any program in your pc for the first time , it takes alot of time from the harddisk to load . close it and open it again , it will load in a second ? why? coz it is loading it from the memory and not the harddisk anymore .

once the cache disk is full it starts deleteling and replacing the old with new accessed , OR some caching chooses the most used progams.

and by the way , you can make ANY hard disk a Hybrid . Just dedicate a SSD you buy to it and use a Caching software.. it is the same.

now there are 3 problems , one , if it is not the first time it is a normal harddisk ,
two , the SSD they add to it is slow , not even close to SATA3 500M/s SSD ,
and three, they are in small size and will fill up fast unless you make your own caching hybrid , like say a 3TB harddisk with a 128G SSD for caching the 3 TB ...

for a System disk get a stand alone SSD . and get this one : Samsung 840 pro .. and it must be the PRO .. and dont listen to people who say not big difference , the one who say so know nothing about SSD.

the best model and fastest in the market is Samsung 840 Pro 256G

and one more hint , if you plan on 512G SSD , get 2x 256 and make them Raid 0 . will be same price DOUBLE speed.

and dont worry about the Raid 0 , for SSD is alot SAFER than mechanical drives , the Fail rate of 2 SSD is less than ONE Mechanical Drive.

a b G Storage
July 23, 2013 10:15:02 AM

Sakkura said:
The hybrid drive caches frequently used data on its own little internal "SSD". When you're accessing that data, performance will be virtually identical to an SSD. When you're accessing data that is only rarely used, performance will not be as good.


they will never be like an SSD , the SSD they put on the hybrid are one of the slowest , not a 500M/sec ones ..
a b G Storage
July 23, 2013 11:02:11 AM

SNA3 said:
Sakkura said:
The hybrid drive caches frequently used data on its own little internal "SSD". When you're accessing that data, performance will be virtually identical to an SSD. When you're accessing data that is only rarely used, performance will not be as good.


they will never be like an SSD , the SSD they put on the hybrid are one of the slowest , not a 500M/sec ones ..

The difference between a slow SSD and a fast SSD is insignificant. And this is what a hybrid drive does for boot time:

a b G Storage
July 23, 2013 11:18:57 AM

Sakkura said:
SNA3 said:
Sakkura said:
The hybrid drive caches frequently used data on its own little internal "SSD". When you're accessing that data, performance will be virtually identical to an SSD. When you're accessing data that is only rarely used, performance will not be as good.


they will never be like an SSD , the SSD they put on the hybrid are one of the slowest , not a 500M/sec ones ..

The difference between a slow SSD and a fast SSD is insignificant. And this is what a hybrid drive does for boot time:



thats a slow samsung 830 , please dont bring me aincient technology , the Samsung 840 pro today is twice faster than the old 830 ... and who said we buy SSD for Boot times ?

a b G Storage
July 23, 2013 11:46:35 AM

SNA3 said:
thats a slow samsung 830 , please dont bring me aincient technology , the Samsung 840 pro today is twice faster than the old 830 ... and who said we buy SSD for Boot times ?



The Samsung 830 is neither slow nor ancient. And besides, like I said, there's virtually no difference between a fast SSD and a slow SSD. Even if you cripple a Samsung 840 Pro by running it off a SATA-300 port (with half as much bandwidth as SATA-600), performance is only barely affected.
a b G Storage
July 23, 2013 1:25:10 PM

Sakkura said:
SNA3 said:
thats a slow samsung 830 , please dont bring me aincient technology , the Samsung 840 pro today is twice faster than the old 830 ... and who said we buy SSD for Boot times ?



The Samsung 830 is neither slow nor ancient. And besides, like I said, there's virtually no difference between a fast SSD and a slow SSD. Even if you cripple a Samsung 840 Pro by running it off a SATA-300 port (with half as much bandwidth as SATA-600), performance is only barely affected.


yes it is Aincient by PC stadards.

it is slow and who said you use the 840 pro on a sata 2 port? you will use it on a sata 3 port.

and the 830 is crap compared to 840 pro.the low capacity used for caching is 100M/s write speed..

a b G Storage
July 23, 2013 2:43:07 PM

SNA3 said:
yes it is Aincient by PC stadards.

it is slow and who said you use the 840 pro on a sata 2 port? you will use it on a sata 3 port.

and the 830 is crap compared to 840 pro.the low capacity used for caching is 100M/s write speed..

The Samsung 830 was launched in September 2011, the Samsung 840 Pro was launched in September 2012. So the 830 isn't ancient. It's still available at retail.

This is how slow the 830 is:



The part about running a Samsung 840 Pro on SATA-300 was just an example to show how little difference there is between a slow SSD and a fast SSD. Cutting the peak performance of the 840 Pro in half has only a very minor impact on real-life performance:



a b G Storage
July 23, 2013 4:24:08 PM

Sakkura said:
SNA3 said:
yes it is Aincient by PC stadards.

it is slow and who said you use the 840 pro on a sata 2 port? you will use it on a sata 3 port.

and the 830 is crap compared to 840 pro.the low capacity used for caching is 100M/s write speed..

The Samsung 830 was launched in September 2011, the Samsung 840 Pro was launched in September 2012. So the 830 isn't ancient. It's still available at retail.

This is how slow the 830 is:



The part about running a Samsung 840 Pro on SATA-300 was just an example to show how little difference there is between a slow SSD and a fast SSD. Cutting the peak performance of the 840 Pro in half has only a very minor impact on real-life performance:





I know the 830 and the 840 pro .. you dont need to show me your graphs.

and AGAIN , start up times are not the issue , stop posting start up times please.

he asked for explanation I gave him the right answer ... this whole talk means nothing ... I am talking about TODAY and what is available today , and I am talking about REAL performance, and yo are giving me start up times..

tell me , who exporting and importing files will be on chached disks? VS Sata 3 caching? HUGE Difference...

how Editing movies and rendering would be ? Huge difference.

so please stop showing me start up times . disk caching is not for start up times.

a b G Storage
July 23, 2013 4:42:41 PM

SNA3 said:
so please stop showing me start up times . disk caching is not for start up times.


That is actually one of the main things SSD caching benefits. Moving large files around is specifically something caching is BAD at, because there isn't room for all that data to be cached.
a b G Storage
July 23, 2013 4:48:35 PM

Sakkura said:
SNA3 said:
so please stop showing me start up times . disk caching is not for start up times.


That is actually one of the main things SSD caching benefits. Moving large files around is specifically something caching is BAD at, because there isn't room for all that data to be cached.


if you read carefully , I was talking about HUGE Disk Caching .. that is a separate 128G SSD on SATA3 + 3 TB harddisk ... and using Caching program ...

I was saying hybrid are BAD , if you want Caching do it yourself.
a b G Storage
July 23, 2013 6:12:14 PM

Dedicated caching works better, since the firmware is optimised for the purpose.
a b G Storage
July 23, 2013 6:29:33 PM

Sakkura said:
Dedicated caching works better, since the firmware is optimised for the purpose.


better with what? 4G-16G only ? that will be overwritten ? and not suitable for caching large files ?

sorry I disagree ...
a b G Storage
July 23, 2013 6:55:01 PM

SNA3 said:
Sakkura said:
Dedicated caching works better, since the firmware is optimised for the purpose.


better with what? 4G-16G only ? that will be overwritten ? and not suitable for caching large files ?

sorry I disagree ...

It doesn't have to be only 16 GB, it can be a lot more if need be. But it's usually not worth it. 128 GB is not as big of an improvement over 16 GB as you'd think.
a b G Storage
July 23, 2013 9:02:32 PM

Sakkura said:
SNA3 said:
Sakkura said:
Dedicated caching works better, since the firmware is optimised for the purpose.


better with what? 4G-16G only ? that will be overwritten ? and not suitable for caching large files ?

sorry I disagree ...

It doesn't have to be only 16 GB, it can be a lot more if need be. But it's usually not worth it. 128 GB is not as big of an improvement over 16 GB as you'd think.


Have you seen the Apple Fusion drive ? it is 128G Caching a 3.5 HD .. and it works better than hybrid drives ..

anyways this came to dead end :)  have a Nice day you have your Opinion , and I have mine.
a b G Storage
July 24, 2013 4:48:17 AM

128 GB is still only going to be able to cache about 4% of a 3 TB drive.
a b G Storage
July 24, 2013 3:03:10 PM

Sakkura said:
128 GB is still only going to be able to cache about 4% of a 3 TB drive.


really?

it is not about the size , it is about the DATA YOU use, more frequent ..

tell me , do you use MORE FREQUENT , more than 128GB of FILES ?

unless you are some server , I doubt it..

even if you watch movies , 128G is about 60 movies or 30 if long ones .. not enough ?

ofc Gaming will be OK all cached ... as well as Programs ...
a b G Storage
July 24, 2013 7:13:44 PM

I certainly use more than 128 GB frequently. Even a single game can take up 30 GB.
a b G Storage
July 24, 2013 7:21:27 PM

Sakkura said:
I certainly use more than 128 GB frequently. Even a single game can take up 30 GB.


how many games are 30 GB ?

and I am not continuing this ... this is trolling.

again ,

best choise is SSD only for system and programs and work.

and for huge Volumes , a 3TB + SSD Caching self made

and the worst are the hybrids ..

This is my advice to every one ..

!