which ram should I go for

yogidwnundr

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Jun 23, 2013
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hi, I'm building a new system so far I've accumulated an...
i5 3570k, asrock z77 extreme 4, hd6950 2 gb and a couple wd 500gb hdds for raid (down want to go down ssd route quite yet).

I'm not really too sure on ram, any advice? really I just want the best I can for sub $100 only need 8gb i reckon?
 
Solution
OK, Where to begin, i do not have much time to write this post otherwise i would have written an entire essay full of references, but i will try to make my point briefly (almost) :)

Maybe this argument is specific to the European market where i get my prices from, but this is all based on the fact that 1600 CL9 modules here in Europe are not cheap and the difference between them and the 2133s or 2400s in price is overall negligible some 8-10 Euros difference which is far from the difference you pay going from 8GB to 16GB or from 16 to 32 etc... and you can not also normally use that extra money to better any other component in the system, get an SSD, a better GPU or else..

I have initially followed the advice of 1600Mhz is all you...

The Kasafist

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Mar 20, 2013
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CAS latency is all that matters really look into a single 8GB stick or 2x4GB stick these are good choices for 2x4GB:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=100007611%20600006069%20600006156&IsNodeId=1&name=7
seems the only 8GB stick with a CAS latency lower than 9 is:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=100007611%20600006074%20600006158&IsNodeId=1&name=8
Otherwise there's these for 1x8GB at CAS latency 9:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=100007611%20600006074%20600006157&IsNodeId=1&name=9
Anything above 1600MHz will not show a performance difference it will literally be less than 1% unless you deal specifically with memory dependant software.
 

The Kasafist

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The performance difference will be less than 1% unless he can justify it the price may be the same if so then yes if not then he needs to be sure it even matters to him honestly I have 1600 it makes no impact what so ever unless its RAM specfic software or programming. If it's gaming 1600MHz is fine. G. Skill is preferrence like I prefer Corsair although they will be the same thing memory is memory both G. Skill and Corsair are very trusted brands although so is Crucial as well. Honestly I would simple consider CL over MHz as long as it isn't below 1600MHz. Let's ask this what is this PC actually even used for?
 

MyNewRig

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May 7, 2013
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The (Do not go higher than 1600Mhz) is a bad, old dated advice, it is just a myth, many people have proven with benchmarks that performance of even games does show gains with above 1600Mhz, IGP performance increases very significantly, compression, booting time.. and it just feels nice when you have the fastest RAM you can afford in your system, 1600Mhz in today's market is just a bad idea.


Back in the days when going above 1600Mhz would make the price jump significantly this advice was valid, but these days up to 2133 or even 2400 modules are very close in price to 1600Mhz and therefore there is no reason to stick with 1600 anymore..

Get the fastest modules you can afford as long as you would not be paying the price of 16GBs of 1600s, i mean if going from 1600 to 2400 or so would cost you something like 10 extra bucks then by all means just get the faster sticks until price starts getting ridiculous, which for me in Europe that is the 2400Mhz which i consider to be the new standard!

EDIT: Your 3570K chip is not guaranteed to run at 2400Mhz and a lot of people are having issues running at this speed with this CPU, it is like only 1% of this chip is able to run at 2400 according to your luck and quality of your IMC, if you want the maximum guaranteed speed certified by Intel for this CPU go for the 2133 preferably CL9.
 

The Kasafist

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From what I have noticed even within this year though is 2133MHz at CL9 is more than a simple $10 jump from the 1600MHz with CL9 this is why I didn't recommend it. I see you mentioned that his particular CPU performs best at 2133MHz though, that being said if the OP doesn't mind me asking 1 question what would be best for the i7 3820K then? Also would like to know where it may show any real proof or hard evidence that this does help significantly improve performance please. Not doubting you but I like facts and I do like to keep my facts straight. :bounce:

Edit: Just an example here others still feel the same some real proof helps to change the non-believers minds. http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/317200-30-does-faster-memory-make-difference
Another update on what I have found
http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2251397
http://www.anandtech.com/show/4503/sandy-bridge-memory-scaling-choosing-the-best-ddr3/1
Any articles to disprove this would be wonderful!
 

MyNewRig

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OK, Where to begin, i do not have much time to write this post otherwise i would have written an entire essay full of references, but i will try to make my point briefly (almost) :)

Maybe this argument is specific to the European market where i get my prices from, but this is all based on the fact that 1600 CL9 modules here in Europe are not cheap and the difference between them and the 2133s or 2400s in price is overall negligible some 8-10 Euros difference which is far from the difference you pay going from 8GB to 16GB or from 16 to 32 etc... and you can not also normally use that extra money to better any other component in the system, get an SSD, a better GPU or else..

I have initially followed the advice of 1600Mhz is all you need and got 1600s for my Haswell build after being on 2400 with Ivy and then ended up overclocking my 1600 to 2133 CL10, so i have used systems with 1600, 2133 and 2400 and have tested the differences myself, i ended up returning the 1600s that i got for my Haswell build and ordered the TridentX 2400 CL10 instead which i have not received yet.

Here is my reasoning for doing so.

1) IGP performance is the most significant and noticeable of all these, as going from 1600 to 2400 changes the IGP performance very significantly and the difference is like day and night, now as to why anyone wants to use their IGP when they have a high-end dedicated card has many applications, for one having 2400 on an HD4600 Graphics that comes with Haswell makes a lot of AAA game playable on IGP in case you RMA your Graphics card or replace it, you can still use the IGP while you wait, also if you use that software that splits your computer into two, you can have two PCs each running with its own GPU and you can even play multiplayer games on those, also if you use VirtuMVP, the IGP part of the pool will be able to output more performance, and the difference in performance in this case between 1600 and 2400 is like 30+% and is directly linked to the speed of the RAM which makes a lot of unplayable games, playable on IGP as you get up to 10-15 FPS with faster memory!

Even Intel officially recognize that fact according to their XMP page found here http://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/gaming/gaming-computers/intel-extreme-memory-profile-xmp.html In this page there is a linked PDF list showing all officially certified speeds and voltages for all their K version CPUs and is updated frequently which answers yours question of what is the best performing RAM modules for each different K version CPU. The list also has certified brands, modules and motherboards, it can be found here http://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/gaming/xmp-for-core-processors.html



2) Compression performance of things like WinRAR increases by a nice margin and is proven by all reviews, system boot time increase noticeably when using faster RAM, even by a second or two, it is still good given the very tiny price you pay to achieve that.

3) DirectX 11.2 that comes with Windows 8.1 and is also used in the Xbox ONE claims to be able to utilize the system RAM to provide a Swap RAM for the video card if its vRAM Is exhausted, the same type of implementation that they did in Xbox ONE which have 2133Mhz RAM, and my GPU comes with 3GB of vRAM, i game on 3 monitors 4K resolution and some games already in the market do require more than 3GB of vRAM already and i have to lower shadows or AA to be able to fit in the RAM, with DX11.2 and Next-Gen games, maybe system RAM will become useful when games require more vRAM than what you have in your Graphics card and when this happens you better have the fastest RAM possible, at least match Xbox design and have 2133Mhz.


4) I can not locate the exact reference thread now, but when i was researching this issue, i have read 100s of posts and one of them was for a guy in overclock.net who have done massive testing for months for RAM from 1333 till 2666 with all sorts of Graphics cards from both vendors and he claim in a very objective analysis that games do see up to 13FPS increase with faster ram even when using a dedicated GPU and this finding match one of the things in the thread you posted of a guy saying that PCI-E performance is enhanced by faster RAM.

5) Computers are different than consoles that they are multi-purpose devices so claiming that someone will be using his system for only Gaming all the time and thus they should stick with 1600Mhz does not make sense to me, what if this person decides he wants to do some video editing or Photoshop or whatever that see performance increase with faster RAM? would they have to settle for slower performance just because the initial purpose of the machine was gaming?


6) even 2133@CL11 or 2400@CL11 provides much better speed and latency than 1600@CL9 after personally testing it, as it provides from 3 to 4 GB/s extra bandwidth, and up to 10ns better latency, even going from 2133@CL10 to 2133@CL11 does not effect real response time of the RAM a lot if at all according to my own testing, faster is always better.

All this is valid as long as the price difference between 1600 and 2000+ modules is not significant enough to matter more in other areas which is perfectly the case in the European market.

For all the reasons above i decided to go with the faster RAM than 1600Mhz and think that the (stick with 1600 RAM) is a bad advice these days, one that i have personally been a victim of :)
 
Solution

Tradesman1

Legenda in Aeternum

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+1 In the real world is where you will see the true advantages of higher freq dram, when really working, with open tabs/ windows, memory centric apps, multi-tasking, apps that use large data sets, etc
 

The Kasafist

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Agreed! Its a gaming rig though isn't it? Plus I only asked for proof that higher MHz helps gaming specifically which has not yet made any real impact in just yet! Not saying it doesn't do any difference at all in any way shape or form. I know faster RAM is better but if the OP is only gaming and thos real world apps don't mean much then 1600 is perfectly fine. It's no biggie the OP can buy whatever they wish its they're money I was just stating a fact as far as gaming goes. I'm not trying to burst anyone's bubble here. Just need 1 simple link that shows that increased MHz significantly improves gaming and I can totally stand by what everyone s saying.