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Quickie newb question

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July 31, 2013 9:31:57 PM

So I used the OC Genie that came with my new mobo to start dipping my feet in the water of OC, but when running a stress test recently the thing crashed so I decided to turn it off and then do another test.

OC Genie says it's off but when look at the stats for the cpu in the MSI Control Center program it lists my current core speed as 3797.7 Mhz while my cpu is only a 3.4. So I'm guess that means it's still OC?

The Base Clock says 100 mhz and the CPU TDP says 95 w.


I'm checking for a stability issue because when running the stress test on Heaven, it crashed while only at 50c which is not very high temp. There's plenty of fans and the PSU is 900w and seems to be running the voltage pretty stable so I don't think it's that kind of issue. Besides undoing the OC any other things that might have caused the crash? I also played Dishonored today for about 3 hours and it crashed on me, saying it was either a driver issue or bad hardware problem. All parts are brand new.

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a c 163 K Overclocking
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July 31, 2013 9:37:59 PM

Could be your ram since temps are fine, have you run memtest? http://memtest.org/
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July 31, 2013 10:04:04 PM

I was kind of thinking it might be that since everything else was doing pretty good.

Also I figured out how to unclock it. I just loaded up default settings so it's back to 3400 mhz on the core speed. Ran Heaven test again and it bonked out even quicker this time. Ran furmark and it basically kept on a trucking. It got to 53 before I got bored. It was plateuing hard at that point going up only every 10 seconds so I think GPU can be ruled out. Heaven tests more than just gpu I believe while furmark is only gpu.

I'll try the memtest now.
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August 1, 2013 5:27:04 PM

Did 2 passes on memtest 86 and zero errors were returned. I also downloaded the beta driver because I thought that might help? Still conking out quick on memtest though. Any ideas?
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a c 103 K Overclocking
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August 1, 2013 5:31:42 PM

Couple things to narrow this down:
what is your Vcore voltage at while OC'd?
What cpu cooler are you using and what temps are reported during heaven run (and yes heaven is a full system stressor)
Is your GPU OC'd as well? Just because one or the other passes doesn't mean they play well together, occasionally you have to back off one or the other to get them to work together stable.
Did OC Genie set your RAM to the appropriate XMP profile? and What speed is that profile? what ram do you have?
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August 2, 2013 11:14:55 AM

Buzz247 said:
Couple things to narrow this down:
what is your Vcore voltage at while OC'd?
What cpu cooler are you using and what temps are reported during heaven run (and yes heaven is a full system stressor)
Is your GPU OC'd as well? Just because one or the other passes doesn't mean they play well together, occasionally you have to back off one or the other to get them to work together stable.
Did OC Genie set your RAM to the appropriate XMP profile? and What speed is that profile? what ram do you have?



The MSI control center lists the CPU voltage as being set to "auto" whatever that means.

I have a Cool Master 212 with two fans attached. The case has a back fan pushing out air, a side case fan pulling air, and down at the bottom front, another fan pulling in air. Ambient temp remains at 28-32c even under load. The CPU temps get around 51c before it conks out which is a good 20c below it's Tcase on intel's website, plus I've seen it get hotter than that before I got this new fan.

GPU is not OC'd by me, though the box says it's an OC'd edition. If it is, it's a small bump though since I don't see it's Mhz being much higher than out of the box.

To my knowledge the OC Genie is not running an XMP profile though I have to admit a good deal of ignorance on this aspect of OC. Things should be back to stock now though, since I turned off Genie and loaded the "default profile" in control center. I have 1600 DDR3 Patriot Ram. Huh.. I'm not sure what else though. I checked the UPC and this should be the correct product: http://www.frys.com/product/6709205

So I ran Furmark and that didn't seem to be the problem. I ran memtest and that didn't seem to be the problem. So I ran OOCT to stress test the cpu.... and that also doesn't seem to be the problem. Before getting the new fan, I could use OOCT to flunk the cpu in under 15 minutes due to heat. This time it ran for 1.5 hours before I decided to call it quits. I've also uploaded all the graphs and info it spat out online here: http://imgur.com/a/8Ni6G#0 Hopefully there's some info there that's useful? It's voltage, temperatures, everything it OOCT can track. Maybe there's a clue in the numbers but it's hard to tell.

If memtest checks out, gpu checks out, and seemingly cpu, all check out when run seperatedly and only malfunction when they run together then maybe the problem is what brings them together? The mobo? or the PSU. But voltage readings seem pretty steady, and both psu and mobo are brand new. Temps on either one seem golden too.


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a c 103 K Overclocking
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August 2, 2013 11:47:29 AM

wait a minute.... are you using OC genie (a UEFI BIOS) to OC or are you using MSI Control Center to select a "performance profile" and OC thru that? BIOS oc and Software OC are completely different ballgames - and could be your problem
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a c 330 K Overclocking
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August 2, 2013 12:02:56 PM

Quote:
BIOS oc and Software OC are completely different ballgames - and could be your problem


Exactly what I was thinking. BIOS OC using appropriate configurations is always, ALWAYS better than using a GUI tool to try and overclock. I even avoid using those BIOS tools that are 10%, 20%, 30% OC or the FAST and EXTREME settings.

Best bet, go read up on how to overclock and you'll be much happier you did. This way, you know what each setting does and how to troubleshoot if you run into instability issues.
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August 2, 2013 1:06:57 PM

This MSI board is kind of funny because the BIOS is actually integrated into these softwares. The Control Center app can turn OC Genie off and on but so can the Bios. The BIOS actually is has a mouse based GUI and stuff called "Click BIOS II", and as far as I can tell is the only BIOS you can use. The Control Center has been reverted to default settings though so it shouldn't be the thing clogging up the works. I'll go check in BIOS though and make sure everything is default and from there if I can tweak stuff. As it is though it appears to be having problem and should be at default settings.
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a c 103 K Overclocking
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August 2, 2013 1:14:41 PM

no - not "integrated" - it is software based overclocking. It is not BIOS OC. Control center uses registry changes and MBR changes to affect BIOS. It is not the same. OC Genie can and SHOULD be used without touching that software.

So are you saying now you can't get it to revert properly? Not uncommon when software was used - happens a lot. Uninstall control center completely, unplug pc, remove MB battery, CLR CMOS jumpers for 30 sec, replace battery, plug, reboot. IF you are lucky that should clear it out. BUT sometimes software OC screws up registry so bad you have to clean install windows to fix it
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August 2, 2013 8:50:08 PM

Right but if I went in the program I would expect it to revert the registry changes when I click "return to default" right?

Looking over some more information, I'm starting to get a handle on the terms and how the balance between clock speed and voltage works. That in mind, at least at idle the voltage is lower than expected, so I think the issue may be a lack of voltage. It was previously set to "auto" and at least at idle was around .98. Looking at OOCT it's hitting 1.2 at max (which is normal for this), but once the other systems kick in, I imagine it's taking some kind of hit, which might explain why it doesn't fail with OOCT but does on Heaven. So I'm going to up the voltage a tad and see what that gets me.


EDIT: So bumping up the voltage seems to help it last through the Heaven benchmark at least a little longer. It does eventually crash still though. Also weirdly enough it seems to last longer in general when the clock speed is raised higher. So 40x with +.06 voltage lasts longer than 34x with .06 voltage, which lasts longer than 34x with auto voltage set.

So it seems like it may be primarily a voltage problem? Am I correct in putting that out there? What is a normal amount of voltage to crank it by? .06 seems like a verysmall amount and I haven't wanted to go farther. With the 40x at +.06 voltage, it doesn't get any hotter than 50 and hovers around 1.356 voltage when under load. Is the primary damage of higher voltage merely higher temps because if so, then I think I could probably give it a couple of more notches and that would help increase stability.

As I understand it, more voltage is better stability but shorter lifespan. I also read that in general the mobo auto settings tend to lean more towards lifespan than stability so it would make sense to probably up the ante a little if I'm not as worried about lifespan. This is an i5 so I can still go up to an i7 in a couple of years. I hear getting above 1.5 is a little risky, but if the problem with voltage is merely temp then Ithink I can probably bump it up a little more. Is that a correct assessment of how voltage works?
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a c 103 K Overclocking
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August 2, 2013 9:52:12 PM

Like i mentioned, software OCing can actually mess up registry entries so they do NOT revert or change as they should requiring clean install of windows to correct. Should they change values when you select default? Yes. do they? Not always. One of many reasons to avoid software OC

have you consulted a guide for OC your chip or just adjusted multiplier and voltage? I would highly encourage clearing CMOS to stock, and using a guide to reference as other BIOS setting can come into play at times for certain effects and stability issues.

1.4v - try not to go higher than this
1.5v - DO NOT go higher than this
And yes, you have a good handle on vcore voltage, but this is only one voltage to be tweaked at times, hence the encouragement to use a guide (there is one for Sandy bridge i5-2500k in the overclock forum stickies)

watch your temps! at the level of OC i hope you have a decent CPU cooler on there to manage temps. At stress test levels you don't want core temps to go above 80c. During normal daily use, not above 70c
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August 3, 2013 9:27:00 AM

Buzz247 said:
Like i mentioned, software OCing can actually mess up registry entries so they do NOT revert or change as they should requiring clean install of windows to correct. Should they change values when you select default? Yes. do they? Not always. One of many reasons to avoid software OC


Okay but if I revert it to default and then restart and check in BIOS and the values have been reverted to default then it should be okay now correct?

Buzz247 said:
have you consulted a guide for OC your chip or just adjusted multiplier and voltage? I would highly encourage clearing CMOS to stock, and using a guide to reference as other BIOS setting can come into play at times for certain effects and stability issues.


Yeah I need to do that. I've been reading up threads on my specific chip but haven't looked at a full guide yet. Will do.

Buzz247 said:
1.4v - try not to go higher than this
1.5v - DO NOT go higher than this
And yes, you have a good handle on vcore voltage, but this is only one voltage to be tweaked at times, hence the encouragement to use a guide (there is one for Sandy bridge i5-2500k in the overclock forum stickies)

watch your temps! at the level of OC i hope you have a decent CPU cooler on there to manage temps. At stress test levels you don't want core temps to go above 80c. During normal daily use, not above 70c

For sure, yeah my cooler is the best I could get in it's price range and under load it's not even breaking 50c right now so it should be okay. I'm curious though, if the main risk of higher voltage is heat, and it's staying cool, then why not up the voltage? I mean hypothetically (I'm just trying to get a good understanding of how this stuff works) if it's running at 1.6 and not breaking a 40c temp, then would that be A-OK? Like lets say you had liquid cooling or something, does that mean as long as the temp stays down it's not a problem? What what I've read around, it seems that there is still a problem with "electron migration" but that heat is/may be the primary factor?


I've run some more Heaven tests and after upping the voltage its doing better but when it crashes it sends me a "Nvidia kernel crash" message which usually indicates overheating of the gpu (not breaking 35c so not a problem there) or a problem with the PSU. Since the PSU readings are doing fine I'm thinkin the problem is that while this GPU is OC edition they probably didn't crank the voltage very high and so it might be running a little thin on power.
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August 3, 2013 10:17:15 AM

Ah ha! Success! Thank you guys for being patient with my teething problems. I downloaded MSI Afterburner and bumped up the voltage a tad and everything is in the clear now. Computer can run through a full cycle of Heaven no problem, temps on gpu get no higher than 45c and cpu doesn't get over 51c, so looks like thinks are good and stable now :) 
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