Need help on optimal fan placement.

ciaron454 · Aug 2, 2013

Hello everyone!

I was hoping that you all could give me some advice about what to do in regards to the fan positioning in my case in order to maximize cooling potential.

Basically, I want to know what direction my fans should be blowing in order to get maximum airflow across my case. I'm having some difficulty deciding myself so I was hoping you guys could assist me.

On to the specs.

Case: Lian Li full tower case, I'm not sure on the model, it's an older one.
CPU: i7 3820
CPU Cooler: TPC-800
GFX: 2 x Asus GTX 670 Direct CU II
MoBo: Asus Sabertooth X79
RAM: 64GB Corsair XMS3 1600Mhz
HDD: 2 x 1TB WD Velociraptors, 1 x 74GB WD Velociraptor, 2 x 1TB WD Caviar Green

As you can imagine, all this does generate a fair bit of heat and I'm running solely on air cooling. My temps aren't bad, but I feel they could be better. CPU peaks at 65c on full load after a couple hours. Graphics cards reach about the same, if not a little more.

At the moment nothing is overclocked however I would like to OC the processor a bit. I have labeled a picture to point out fan locations and size. I've put the text over where the fan is and I'm sorry for the bad picture quality and lighting, had to take the picture with my phone.

Thanks to whoever took the time to read this and I hope you can help me out.

clutchc · Aug 2, 2013

You have 3 x 120mm fan spaces in the front? I'd start filling them in myself. Starting at the bottom to bring in air for the cards.

ciaron454 · Aug 3, 2013

I should of explained myself better. All fan slots are filled apart from the two small ones on the floor of the case, I'm more curious about which directions they should be pushing / pulling.

clutchc · Aug 3, 2013

Oh. Then you should be fine. There are different theories on this, but my preference is to have more air CFM blowing in than out... positive pressure. 3 front 120mm fans in-taking air, top and rear fans exhausting. What is the deal with the top 120mm fan? Is that the PSU's intake or a discrete fan mounted in the top of the case? If the latter, then is the PSU fan facing down?

ciaron454 · Aug 3, 2013

Ah it seems you've noticed why I'm asking. Yes the PSU is facing down but there is also a separate fan mounted onto the top of the case. This is where I got confused as I would normally do myself as you have said but with a downfacing PSU and my graphics cards also facing down I thought airflow might be going against each other.

Both graphics cards have fans on them but have their own exhausts coming out of the rear of the case. So in your opinion, what fans should be pushing and pulling? The CPU cooler is a push / pull setup pushing towards the exhaust of the case.

clutchc · Aug 3, 2013

I actually don't see any issues. As long as the cards have plenty of fresh air from the front fans (especially the bottom front fan), their intake fans will have plenty of fresh air for cooling their heat syncs. They'll take care of themselves. The rear fans should be exhausting. The top fan should be exhausting. The PSU has plenty of air from the front fans for its cooling. I presume the side of the case that is removed for the pic is solid; no vent.

I really think you have all bases covered. Are you having hi-temp issues?

ciaron454 · Aug 3, 2013

You are correct in assuming the sides are solid, no side fans. And what you have said has made me feel more at ease. I'm not really having heat issues but it does get hotter than I would like, it peaks at around 65c and I'd personally like to overclock my 3820 a bit as it is at the base clocks and I'd like to get more performance out of it for games like planetside 2.

I am aware that Sandybridge-E does run hot but the maximum rated temp for it is 80c so maybe my concern is justified.

clutchc · Aug 3, 2013

Yes, Intel recommends 66.8C for that 130W processor. But that is the Tcase temp; the temp under the heat shield. The core temp would naturally be slightly higher. And I believe the Tmax for that processor's cores is somewhere around 100C, but I can't find verification of that right now. That would be the temp it would throttle back or even shut down to protect itself. I wonder if the rear fans are not pulling enough heated air from the push-pull cooler. Can you mount any larger fans there? One larger in place of the 2 smaller fans?

65C is acceptable maxed out, but I can see that you'd like to do better. Have you replaced the thermal paste in the last year or so?

ciaron454 · Aug 3, 2013

clutchc :

First, thanks for helping out, I appreciate it.

Unfortunately the rear slots are only large enough for 80mm, however the fans I have there are very strong, they themselves created a temperature difference of 6-10c compared to no fan mounted.

Yes, I had to redo the thermal paste myself the other day as the person who did it before (My mothers partner.) did a very sloppy job of it. This did drop temps overall by about 3-5c.

Personally I'm thinking I'm going to have to drop some money on better fans, the ones in there are I believe Lian Li standard. The parts were bought for me and my mothers boyfriend is.... overly loyal to certain brands.

They look like this

clutchc · Aug 3, 2013

I used to have a Lian Li case. They don't use junk, so I have no doubt the fans are good. How's the air flow from the front fans? Anything in the way like a wad of unused cables or anything. Lian Li cases are usually all aluminum, so the thermal transfer is good.

ciaron454 · Aug 4, 2013

Well I just spent the last few hours looking around the case and rewiring the cables. As it was never me who built it and the front fans are well hidden, I always assumed there was three, it turns out that there is only two and the space that didn't have one lined up directly with the CPU cooler and had 3 hdd's in the way.

Additionally while the cabling was clean and tidy, it was also blocking airflow. As such I just spent a couple hours moving the harddrives (Harder than it sounds in this case.) and redoing all the wiring, this has gained me a few more c, hard to tell how many yet as I will have to wait for the ambient temperature of the room to rise in order to give a decent idea but it's looking better.

The issue is, the 120mm fans really don't seem to shift much air, I'm really considering buying some new ones as the 120mm compared to the 80mm fans seem really weak, both Lian Li. What are your thoughts?

clutchc · Aug 4, 2013

"Well I just spent the last few hours looking around the case and rewiring the cables. As it was never me who built it and the front fans are well hidden, I always assumed there was three, it turns out that there is only two and the space that didn't have one lined up directly with the CPU cooler and had 3 hdd's in the way"

Aha. That makes sense now. Not as much air flow as you first expected, some of it blocked, and no fan where it would do the most good; directed at the CPU. Your cable management work was important, as was your HDD re-arrangement. I think you'll find a great improvement. Yes, you could upgrade to a higher CFM front fan setup. But keep in mind that the more air they move, the noisier the will be. Maybe move one of the front fans to blow directly on the CPU or add the 3rd 120mm fan.

Also keep in mind that the MB temp may be low enough that the BIOS is keeping the fans at low speed. That high-end board probably has an auto/manual case fan adjustment... unless you have your fans connected directly to the PSU.

ciaron454 · Aug 5, 2013

Yeah, it has done a lot of good, right now I'm sitting on a 4Ghz overclock and the highest temp I got from a 16 hour stability 100% load test was 71c. It generally stays around 64c on average so I'm pretty happy with that for now.

My plan now is to get two Corsair SP120 2350RPM fans and put them onto the CPU cooler and put the two from the CPU cooler into the front panels that lead to the GFX card and CPU and hopefully I should see some more improvement. The fans that appear to be on there already seem to be these http://www.coolermaster.co.uk/product.php?product_id=118

If nothing comes from that, I'll just end up buying a Corsair H100i, and if that doesn't, I'll get a Corsair 900D and build a water cooling setup.

Also, way ahead of you on the BIOS fan speed, the sabertooth X79 has qControl which sets a lower limit to 600rpm and spins fans up to higher speeds based on temps, but I turned that all off and had everything running at full speeds for the purpose of these tests.

Thanks for your help buddy.

clutchc · Aug 5, 2013

Sounds like you have it under control now. Those Corsair SP120 fans look to be a good choice, The old fans were low CFM. I like to have my 120mm fans at least 60CFM. Unfortunately, high CFM and low Db is mutually exclusive, sometimes. But I usually run them at lower speed through BIOS for everyday use. I think you'll be fine now.

Btw... If the PSU wasn't top mounted, you'd have a better situation for heat removal with a top vented case. Thermal dynamics; warm air rises.

ciaron454 · Aug 5, 2013

clutchc :

Yeah, none of these parts were my choice unfortunately, it was built and purchased for me by someone who claims to know what they're doing but isn't as clever as they think they are. I've had many issues I've had to fix myself so far, this being the 4th, maybe 5th I think.

As for the db problem, I have my computer in my own place in a separate room and if I'm on the computer it's either headphones or speakers and they're always louder than my computer.

And I totally agree with the powersupply thing, I like Lian Li cases but personally owning one, I feel they are HIGHLY overrated. If it was up to me, I'd sell this case and buy a Corsair 900D. And in case you haven't noticed, I'm a bit of a corsair fanboy but for good reason, they have served me very well over the years.

clutchc · Aug 5, 2013

I've recently become a bit of a Corsair case fanboy, myself. I have 2 Gaming machines active at the moment, both have Corsair cases. The one in my sig and a 300R. Lian-Li makes nice cases, but I can only take so much of that shiny metal interior. I prefer a more subdued black or grey interior.

It sounds like the next move might be a new case for you, huh?

ciaron454 · Aug 5, 2013

clutchc :

Well what can I say, they make epic PSU's, great RAM, Awesome cases and apparently pretty damn amazing fans and watercoolers. And yeah, my case is a mix of silver and black, the inside is silver and so is part of the front panel but the inside is silver which ruins my colour scheme as inside the case it's black and red.

Also, I had a Corsair TX650 powersupply in my previous computer, thing is still running after 7 years, the warranty is 5. And the AX1200i in my current has a warranty of 7 years and a platinum rating, and the features it has are so damn handy. And you really can't beat their customer support, it is phenomenal. I've seen people praising them for helping them out with second hand parts, a guy had a few panels on a second hand case he bought off a friend sent to him that it was missing completely free.

And yeah, I've wanted a 900D since it came out, perhaps in a couple months I will buy one haha.

But I would advise to stay away from Lian Li, the case is alright, but it's not worth the money, they don't look very good and the aluminum makes no difference. It's kind of the same as having a carbon fiber toilet seat, costs a lot more, sounds pretty cool but entirely pointless. And yes, they do make carbon fiber toilet seats.

ciaron454 · Aug 9, 2013

So just an update for everybody.

My new fans came today and I have fitted them to the CPU cooler, temps dropped by 5-8 degrees or so. I also thought about putting the case on the side due to the "vertical vapour" things on the processor cooler, that also seemed to help.

But after all this hassle, I've now filled out every fan slot and I have managed to get a stable overclock of 4.5GHz with the highest temps being 75c. I'm quite pleased with this and don't feel the need to push it any further.

Need help on optimal fan placement.

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