Systemboard decision (part 2): SSD performance

James Board

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I currently have an Asus Sabertooth x58 system board, and a newly purchased 512 GB Samsung 840 Pro SSD. THG's performance charts for the 840 Pro show write speeds around 500 MB/s. Not for me. I only see about 200 MB/s write performance, and 300 MB/sec read performance in Linux (yes I did connect the drive to the 6 Gb/s SATA ports). People tell me the problem is that the board has Marvell SATA controllers, which are slow.

So, in picking a system-board, how do I know, in advance, whether or not it will support SSDs at 500 MB/sec read and write performance?



 
Solution
Hmmm, it may still be worth putting it on an Intel port, just for the sake of measuring. Two hundred MB/s is only 1.6GB/s, so a "true" 3Gb/s port should still be faster.

James Board

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The board has 2 6Gb/s SATA ports which are Marvell® PCIe 9128 controller.
The board has 6 3Gb/s SATA ports which are Intel® ICH10R controller.

I don't see any Intel SATA 6Gb/s ports. So I don't think I have the option you suggested.

Can I purchase a PCIe card which will support the SSD at full speed? And are they supported by Linux? If so, what's an example SATA board and what do they typically cost?

 

James Board

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Okay, that sounds good.

Though, I'd still like to know how I can tell, in advance, by looking at a system board spec sheet, whether or not it will support SSDs at 500 MB/sec.

 
Unfortunately, as you've discovered, spec sheets can mislead. You'll probably need to rely on reviews and/or benchmarks. The Intel controllers have, time after time, been shown to be a lot closer to their advertised specs (and there is always overhead) than the Marvell controllers.
 

ram1009

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Despite advertising to the contrary performance is NOT a good reason to invest in an SSD. The specs are all inflated and also reflect idealized conditions. The only time the average SSD user will notice a performance increase is during booting and program launch. After a few days/weeks you won't even notice that any more. It just becomes normal. The better reason for investing in an SSD is reliability. No moving parts. If that doesn't impress you then you should consider a HDD.
 

James Board

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I have a difficult time believing this. At least for my scenario. The SSD will be used purely as a data drive in video capture and video editing. 500 MB/sec is a lot faster than 100 MB/sec. And video editing is dependent on disk speed.

 

ram1009

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SSD controllers will fail electrically just like a HDD however most HDD failures are mechanical. I believe what you say but surely you must realize that you are an exception to the rule. BTW, what brand failed?
 

ram1009

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If you handle huge files frequently such as video files then you will certainly notice the difference however that means you are not the average SSD user that I was referring to in my last post. Eventually even you will become accustomed to the extra speed. Remember the first 1000mz processor you owned?
 

James Board

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Your argument seems to be that since I will eventually become accustomed to the extra speed, the SSD's aren't worth it? That's odd. Anyway, whatever.

I think the answer to my original question is to A) identify the SATA controllers on the system board before purchases then B), check online or possibly here to ensure those SSD controllers can handle 500 MB/s SSDs. And Intel SATA controllers are generally better than Marvell controllers.

What about PICe cards that have SATA controllers? Can I get 500 MB/sec from one of those? If I had a PCIe card with 4 SATA controllers, can I get 500 MB/s from each of them concurrently? Does anyone have products in mind?

 

Soul_keeper

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The issue is not so much your SSD/drivers it's your chipset and marvell controller connected to the system with a pcie 1x this will limit you to sub v2.x: 500 MB/s (5 GT/s)
Then your south bridge conntect to northbridge with 2GB/s sharing bandwidth with everything.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:X58_Block_Diagram.png
http://sterlingdesktops.com/88se91xxa.png

wiki:
"Like 1.x, PCIe 2.0 uses an 8b/10b encoding scheme, therefore delivering, per-lane, an effective 4 Gbit/s max transfer rate from its 5 GT/s raw data rate."

sata drive -> sata controller -> southbridge -> northbridge -> cpu -> mem
That's a lot of stages to further increase overhead/latencies, and potentially put a ceiling on your peak transfers. ie: burst rates from the SSDs dram
Also if you have another sata or pata drive connected they'll share that pcie 1x connection.

I noticed you mentioned linux.
Things you can do: Verify that AHCI is enabled, update your kernel, update filesystem utilities, you might want to update your bios, update your SSD firmware, and run fstrim on the drive. Also i'm not sure if partition alignment has any effect on the samsung SSDs, you might wanna check into that.

My crucial M4 on a marvell 9128 card matches it's specs in linux.
I didn't see what programs you were using to bench either.

Others above mention specs not always matching up to realworld (ie: degredation).
Also what filesystem are you using ?
There are some newer marvell 4 port cards with pcie 2x connections (might be some asmedia ones too).
I doubt you'll get much faster buying a new card however.
 
The first one that failed was a 1st generation Corsair; I forget the controller. The second one that failed was an A-Data Sandforce drive. The one I got back from RMA seemed a little flaky too, but probably okay. I believe it's on a shelf right now; I replaced it with a Mushkin (also Sandforce) iirc. I'd probably try using it again, but the machine was for my wife, so I wanted to be extra-careful; she hates PC problems!
 
1. Your motherboard is an older Intel socket LGA 1366 model that is no longer in production. It does not properly support modern 3rd generation SATA 3 6Gb/s solid state drives. The Marvell controller was not that great.

2. The performance charts you refer to are for newer computer configurations that properly support modern 3rd generation SATA 3, 6Gb/s ssd's. However, there are problems with the synthetic benchmarks. They are called synthetic benchmarks because they are not real. The benchmarks were expressly designed to grossly exaggerate very minor differences in ssd performance. In addition, companies manipulate the settings and test conditions to present their ssd's in the most favorable light possible. For all practical purposes over 90% of the synthetic benchmarks do not accurately represent real world situations. Consider them an advertising gimmick.

3. If you are considering purchasing a new motherboard, then look at motherboards with newer Intel chipsets and drivers. The newest are the Intel LGA 1150 socket motherboards with Intel Z87 chipsets. Unfortunately that also would mean purchasing a new cpu and possibly new memory. Here is a link to some examples:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=100007627%20600438202%20600315497%20600009016&IsNodeId=1&name=ATX&Order=RATING

4. I do not recommend PCI-e cards at this time, especially the inexpensive ones as they produce mixed results. However, there may be a viable alternative - affordable consumer oriented PCI-e based solid state drives. The new SATA Express standard has been adopted. The adoption signals the beginning of the migration to PCI-e ssd's for consumers. Samsung is already mass producing and shipping their new XP941 PCI-e ssd's to OEM's. That particular model is designed for use in ultrabooks and tablets. Consumers will have to wait at least until the end of the year for desktop versions.

5. You mentioned video capture and video editing. Rendering processes can slow down performance. When it comes to rendering processes there are performance differences among ssd's. The typical solution for consumers is to use one ssd for the OS, software applications, and utilities; a second ssd as a scratch disk; and a hard disk drive for data storage.

I maintain the ssd database listed in a sticky at the very top of this forum section. The database includes links to technical reviews for each ssd brand and model. I distinctly remember a handful of reviews that included testing video editing applications and rendering. Unfortunately I am a senior citizen who is growing old disgracefully and I forget things. If anything comes to me I'll post the information. On the positive side the technical reviews usually have a page with a chart that identifies the motherboard, cpu, memory, and other components used for the testing. Here is the link to the ssd database:

http://www.johnnylucky.org/data-storage/ssd-database.html
 

James Board

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How can you tell that the Marvell controller is connected to the system with a PCIe 1x? The wikipedia diagram didn't show this. Also, PCIe 2.0 is 250 MB/s, not 500 MB/s. ( I couldn't view the page from sterlingdesktops).

My filesystem is ext4. My benchmarks are my own: I repeatedly write a 1-GB file from a C program with low-level calls like write(). I get up to 160 MB/sec on spinning disks sustained, so I figure the benchmark code is fast enough. I also verified the slow speed of the SSDs with a 'dd' transfer, as well as a hdparm test.

Also if you have another sata or pata drive connected they'll share that pcie 1x connection.
I have several SATA spinning hard drives connected. But they were inactive during the SSD tests. I also achieve read speeds of 500+ MB/sec from them sustained, so I don't see how they their SATA controller can be connected by a single PCIe lane.
 

James Board

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Actually, my system board has two newer SATA 6 Gb/sec ports. Unfortunately, I can't get them to go anywhere near 500 MB/sec with my SamSung Pro SSD.

I do realize that synthetic benchmarks don't accurately predict what real programs should achieve. But right now, I can't even get my synthetic benchmarks to go fast. Mine are 2.5 times slower than the THG synthetic benchmarks. That doesn't make sense. I want to see about 500 MB/sec read and write from my SSD for very large files.

For my next system, I'm considering socket 2011. I'll wait until September to see what CPUs Intel releases.
 

Soul_keeper

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PCI_Express
"Capacity
Per lane (each direction):
v2.x: 500 MB/s (5 GT/s) "

The 9128 marvell chip only provides pcie 1x (configurable as v2.0 or v1.0), there is no other option. The png diagram you apparently can't view is me screenshotting the marvell flyer of the 9128's layout.

Constantly writing 1GB to an SSD is something that can degrade performance.

I guess you'll figure things out. Good luck.