Set Up A Large 50 km square Wireless Network

Shuaib Jewon · Aug 10, 2013

Hi,
I currently own a resort. Its size is around 50 kilometre square. It has much building obstruction. I would like to set up a large wifi network for my customers. I don't know much about networking .

Could you guys please help me ? I would be open to hiring someone to install everything. My budget is around $200 000.

USAFRet · Aug 10, 2013

1. is that $200,000 or $200.00?
2. "I don't know much about networking" leads to hiring someone local and recommended by someone else.

Things such as performance, coverage, security...all will have an impact on the overall experience. If you advertise "Free WiFi", and it is dreadfully slow, your customers will be disappointed. Similarly, if not secure, you may be leaving a customers data open to other customers. Again, not optimal.

Can it be done? Sure. Hotels do this all the time. But you can't just wing it and hope for the best.

There is no shame in not knowing how to do something. It's just a particular skill you didn't know.
Similarly, if you had said: "I want to install a new bathroom. I don't know much about plumbing and construction"...I'd say exactly the same. Hire a local professional.

manofchalk · Aug 10, 2013

USAFRet :

+1
Exactly my advice as well, this kind of thing is well beyond what we deal with here on these forums. Your getting into enterprise grade networking and in a situation that will require eyes on the ground to figure out, hire a professional.

Shuaib Jewon · Aug 10, 2013

Thanks for the reps.

This is $200 000 (two hundred thousand). Yes I intend to hire a local professional. I would first like to know an approximate cost. Security would be minimal. I wish to for open network with a capacity for 100 000 users at a time.

Can you help me ?
Thanks in advance

P.S I also made a major blunder. Network size will be 50km square

USAFRet · Aug 10, 2013

"100 000 users at a time" is a major, city size, enterprise.

"Approximate cost" is impossible to determine without eyes on the ground. Get estimates from several local companies. Then add 50-100% to each estimate.

And sorry, you can't just handwave away the security aspect. Depending on where you are, you are about 2 weeks away from a lawsuit.

manofchalk · Aug 10, 2013

I cant speak for others with any certainty, but I'm fairly confident that no-one here can really advise you on something of this scale.

As for costs, again it comes down to having eyes on the ground.
There's too many variables, does your complex have pre-existing cable routing or will you have to dig up new lines? If you dont, are you digging up dirt or concrete/stone? Does your area have access to an Business grade connection from your ISP, if not more than likely there will be money involved in getting it done. What is the availability of networking equipment and expertise in your area (for something like this you would need a dedicated full-time IT staff to run it, this isn't something you can set and forget). Do you have a line of sight between important buildings? If not then you will need a cable connection between them, you cant rely on an wireless optical medium. Is there any pre-existing noise on the frequencies you want too use, if so then you will need stronger broadcasters.
The list goes on and on.

USAFRet · Aug 10, 2013

One thing I can tell you: $200,000 isn't nearly enough.
I am the lead developer for a 100,000+ user inhouse network. $200,000 doesn't even begin to cover the annual salaries just for the people needed to keep it running.

Shuaib Jewon · Aug 10, 2013

USAFRet :

Thanks for the heads-up. I didn't know it would be that much. However I am currently partnering up with my local ISP. They will take care of all workforce and management of my servers. I was planning to spend the $200k on installation and purchase of equipment.

Anyways I really appreciate the answers. Thanks a lot

USAFRet · Aug 10, 2013

Shuaib Jewon :

Even disregarding ongoing maintenance costs...just the install will suck up $200k in salary.
For a 50 sq km, 100,000 user install, figure a full year of design and install.
1 person cannot do it alone. So figure 3 full time employees.

I don't know where you are, but any market in the US....$200k barely covers 3 full time IT employees for a year.
Now fold in construction costs: digging for conduit, punchdowns in each building, mounting WiFi APs...add another 6 figures (or 7) of expense.

This is a city size enterprise. Try to cheap out, and it will be the same as if you took $200,000 and tossed it into the fireplace.

What does the local ISP say?

Shuaib Jewon · Aug 11, 2013

My local ISP says that they will be handling all installations, salaries and everything.

Where I live $200k covers the salary for 10 full time IT employees a year. No construction digging will be required as I will be receiving internet connection directly from a local company.

I will only have to pay for the network equipment. I was initially given a boost by this article : http://business.time.com/2013/01/09/google-brings-free-public-wifi-to-its-new-york-city-neighborhood/

Quote "After all, the new WiFi network will only cost $115,000 to build and $45,000 a year to maintain"

And if I decide to change the maximum amount of users to lets say around 20 000, would my budget be okay ?

USAFRet · Aug 11, 2013

Shuaib Jewon :

You can't base your install and operating costs in [wherever you are] on what Google will pay to roll out WiFi in a relatively small neighborhood in NYC.

You've gotten an initial estimate from your ISP. What is the actual question you're asking?
Is this a wise business decision for you? We have absolutely no idea.

bill001g · Aug 11, 2013

I can't see where you figure there is no digging or construction. First this is not like a radio station where you put a huge transmitter in a location to serve a area. The signal strength is very limited by the governments. When are talking about providing signal directly to users that do not have long range antenna on their device even 1km is way over the limit.
But if we take 1km as a example. You would need 50 location to transmit from. How do you intend to connect these to both power and ethernet. If you ISP can just connect these then you are wasting your time since the ISP already is providing service just let them provide the service to your users. If they do not have resources at each location how do you envision connecting them. You either run your own fiber or you build some large radio backhaul network. On top of the distance limitation you also have your peak users load to determine. Each radio location can only handle so many users and that is determined by what they are doing. Normally they say to no run more than 10 active users per AP but the word "active" tends to mean different thing to different networks. 10 users will be find if they are just doing random browsing but if they are streaming video or playing games or worse running bit torrents you may find 10 is way to high. So now in addition to the distance determining how many devices to put in you now must add even more devices for usage.

I would discuss with a local cellphone provider if they can offer LTE data coverage. This technology because it can use much high power radios and because it runs on licensed frequencies can cover much larger areas. You may be better off spending you money subsidizing the cost of the usage and device rather than running a network yourself.

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