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Big zoom camera that can take stills during video

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  • Video
  • Cameras
  • Zoom
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August 11, 2013 5:19:26 PM

Hi all. New to the forum - seems like a great place to get info.

We have a very old digital camera, and it is time to upgrade. We are new to the all great features on the later cameras, and mostly want something to take pictures of grandkids, and for vacations. As long as I am doing it, though, I want to get this camera for a special occasion.

I am traveling to Florida later this year to watch the launch of a spacecraft that I have been working on for several years. The observation area is 10+ miles away from the launch pad, so a big zoom is important. In addition, I would like to record video of the launch, but also snap some stills that I can keep, and even blow up to 8x10 or 10x13. I am looking at 4 cameras right now, and am not sure if any will fill the whole bill.

Olympus SH-50 iHS. This one has the stills-during-video that I need, according to all the reviews. But it only has a 24x optical zoom. Compared to some of the big zooms, this is only about half. It also has a 2x "Enhanced Digital Zoom" to go with its 4x standard digital zoom. Will this Enhanced Digital Zoom make any difference (it would put me right back up to 48x), or should I just consider this to be an 24x optical with 8x digital? At 12 miles or so away, am I gonna be sorry if I use 24x when 40x-50x is available?

Sony Cyber-shot DSC-HX300. This one has the big 50x zoom, and one review implied that you can take stills during video, but there wasn't much info. Does it halt the video (like the Canon, below)? Is it seemless? Nobody has said. Probably most people don't use that kind of feature very often. I was also concerned a bit when they described a slow "refresh", especially in burst mode - take 10 quick pictures and you wait 10 seconds before it is ready to take another one. Ouch. This is also the most expensive.

Canon Powershot SX50 HS. Top of the line in almost every feature. Has the big 50x zoom. Has great picture quality. Has quick refresh. Great video quality, and even decent video sound. But the consumer reviews say that if you are shooting video, and then capture a still, it essentially pauses the video, and you get blackout for half a second to a second. That would pretty much ruin a video of a rocket launch, when I am taking stills at exactly the moment of takeoff. If this is true, then I don't think that this camera will work. Shame. Everything else (including the price) seems perfect for me.

Nikon CoolPix P520. This one gets mixed reviews, so I am a little worried. Some say it takes great pictures for a beginner - that the bad reviews are just people looking for a higher end camera. But others give direct examples of where the CoolPix just isn't as good. I also don't know if you can take stills during video with this camera. The price is great. It has a 42x zoom, which is right where I need it to be. I just don't have as much confidence in this one - but that is based on reviews. It may be great.

I would appreciate any info on these 4. Or, if you know of another camera that I have overlooed with big zoom (40x or more, probably), where you can seemless take stills during video (like the Olympus - they call it multi-recording. Others call it Stills-in-video), I would appreciate the heads up.

This trip to see the launch is a once-in-a-lifetime thing for me. I can't tell you how important it will be to capture and record it, and how grateful I would be for info to help me get the right camera to do it.

Thanks

More about : big zoom camera stills video

a b w Digital camera
August 11, 2013 5:32:32 PM

Ignore completely any 'digital zoom' feature or numbers,

As for stills during video, an alternative is to take just video, and extract the specific frame(s) you want as a still.

I have a couple year old Fuji HS10, and it does HD video at 30 frames/sec, or slow motion at various rates and resolution. The 30fps HD is quite good for an inexpensive camera.
60fps, 120fps, all the way up 1000fps at an incredibly crappy resolution.

Newer, better cameras do it even better.

But a video player such as VLC allows easy saving of one frame as a .jpg. Capture the whole thing as video, then capture whatever specific frames you want.
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August 11, 2013 5:45:04 PM

That is an interesting solution (and would make it easier so I don't have to concentrate on more than one thing at a time) :-) I had kind of wondered about something like that, but didn't know how possible it was, and how clear a single frame would come out. Most of the cameras I am looking at do 60fps at 1080p. From what you said, thaet should do nicely. Maybe I should buy one well ahead of time, with a good return policy, and try that. If it works well, I keep the camera. If not, I can always return it and either try another solution, or try another camera (or try different software).

And VLC is the software you would recommend? I use that at work for playing music, but have never used it for video editing. Easy to use? I am not a video editing guru, but I can usually figure things out on a computer (after all, I wrote a bunch of the software on this spacecraft that is heading to Mars).

Thanks for the suggestion.
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a b w Digital camera
August 11, 2013 5:45:09 PM

And for something as personally historic as this, I'd consider using two cameras.

And whichever you choose, practice, practice, practice before the big event.
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August 11, 2013 5:50:25 PM

I think the practice part is a really good idea. I am only going to get one shot at this. I wish I could afford 2 cameras, but I am really pushing the budget strings with my good wife already. $1000 or so for the trip to Florida (by myself, she is a teacher and cannot get off for a week), then the cost of the one camera ($300 - $500). I wish I could go for two of them, but it just won't happen. Maybe I can find a friend and borrow one?

Anyway, I really like the idea of getting it a few months early and practicing with the tripod, and everything. If I could find a good vantage point, maybe going to an airport and following a plane taking off from a couple miles away. Thanks for the suggestions.
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a b w Digital camera
August 11, 2013 6:16:33 PM

martincco said:
I think the practice part is a really good idea. I am only going to get one shot at this. I wish I could afford 2 cameras, but I am really pushing the budget strings with my good wife already. $1000 or so for the trip to Florida (by myself, she is a teacher and cannot get off for a week), then the cost of the one camera ($300 - $500). I wish I could go for two of them, but it just won't happen. Maybe I can find a friend and borrow one?

Anyway, I really like the idea of getting it a few months early and practicing with the tripod, and everything. If I could find a good vantage point, maybe going to an airport and following a plane taking off from a couple miles away. Thanks for the suggestions.


If you were local, I would literally loan you my HS10 (30x zoom) for the weekend. As long as I got a pristine copy of the video...:) 
I'm sure one of your friends would loan you one for the event.

$300-500 will get you one of the better bridge superzoom cameras.
A good solid tripod and practice, practice, practice. There are loads of settings, and you need to get it right.
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a b w Digital camera
August 11, 2013 6:19:06 PM

martincco said:


And VLC is the software you would recommend? I use that at work for playing music, but have never used it for video editing. Easy to use? I am not a video editing guru, but I can usually figure things out on a computer (after all, I wrote a bunch of the software on this spacecraft that is heading to Mars).

Thanks for the suggestion.


VLC works quite well. You can slow the vid way down, and from the menu, "Take Snapshot". If the source video is good (and HD will be) the resulting snapshot will be good.

Now....for the absolute clearest, several thousand $$ of camera body and a huge lens would be ideal. But at under $500, you won't get that.
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a b w Digital camera
August 11, 2013 10:26:03 PM

In the next day or two, weather permitting, I'll go take a few very long range shots, just to show you what is and isn't possible at that price range.

Fuji HS10, 30x zoom.
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August 11, 2013 10:38:57 PM

That would be awesome - thanks so much.
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a b w Digital camera
August 11, 2013 10:43:28 PM

martincco said:
That would be awesome - thanks so much.


Monitor this space...:D 
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a b w Digital camera
August 12, 2013 10:25:15 AM

OK, so I went out this AM and took some distance shots.

First off, let me say that the atmospheric conditions absolutely sucked. Far too humid, too much haze in the air. Sun in the wrong position.
But on the day of your launch, you'll hae as much control over the air as I did this morning...lol

If your vantage point is going to be 10 miles away, a point and shoot is going to bring less than optimal results.
Following shots are from a Fuji HS10. 24mm-720mm (30x) equivalent zoom. Almost no post processing, save for rotation and cropping. Taken this AM, at around 9:30 eastern.

Aircraft carrier at ~4.5 miles, shooting into the sun. I believe this is CVN-71 Theodore Roosevelt.
Resized to 960x639


Boat and building
Boat is at 0.75 miles, building approx 0.9 miles
http://i.imgur.com/zOaCXnM.jpg

Channel marker at about 2 miles. Marker is maybe 40 feet wide at the base.
The towers in the background are ~7 miles out.
http://i.imgur.com/WJtcx6c.jpg

Aircraft carrier at about 4.5 miles
No zoom - http://i.imgur.com/tkbWgj0.jpg
Full 720mm zoom - http://i.imgur.com/4H7mxzZ.jpg

A snapshot of the same ship, snapped from a .mov file playing in VLC at 1920x1080 full HD
http://i.imgur.com/utu9U0X.jpg

The images are very hazy/fuzzy, because of all the moisture in the air.
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August 12, 2013 10:49:49 AM

These pictures are great. I am impressed with the quality at that distance. The capture from the movie isn't bad, though not quite as sharp as the equivalent stills, however, a newer camera should handle the 60 fps better, and perhaps have some better quality thrown in, too.

A few things I am firming up on though - given the size of these objects, and they are anywhere from 4 - 7 miles away, and my rocket will be double that distance, I don't think I can deal with the 24x Olympus. Things would just be too small. I think I will be heading to a real camera store to see how much I can try out before I buy. This is a definite possibility. If I got the Canon 50x zoom, and just capture video, it might do the trick.

One positive for me - if the weather is cloudy or hazy, they scrub the launch. I am not guaranteed to get a launch in the week I am there, but if there is one, the weather should be very clear. That will help a bit, too.

I can't tell you how much I appreciate you taking the time to snap these pictures for me. It has helped a lot.
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August 27, 2013 4:05:41 AM

Hi Martin - I've come to this thread late, so please forgive me if you've already made your decision.

A few thoughts on your issue. I've been to a few launches, and this is a tough problem.

First - pulling stills from 1080p video will give you an approximately 2 megapixel still - less resolution than you'll get from most cellphone cameras. It doesn't really matter whether your frame rate is (24p, 30p or 60p).

For a once in a lifetime space launch, you were on the right track in your first post - I think you want a camera that takes *full resolution* stills without interrupting your video.

For cameras in your price range, the Olympus SH-50 iHS, the Sony HX300v and the Nikon 1 series are your only options.

You were also right about zoom range. At full extension, the Olympus' 25-600mm equivalent zoom will give you only half the image size of the Sony's 24-1200mm equivalent zoom lens.

Another option you may want to look at is a refurbished Nikon 1 V1 body from Cameta Camera via eBay for $199: http://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-53200-19255-0/1?icep_...

This camera takes full resolution stills while shooting video, and is compatible with extremely long telephoto lenses like this $130 Opteka 500mm mirror lens (which will give a a 1350mm equivalent telephoto - longer than the Sony): http://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-53200-19255-0/1?icep_...

You will definitely need a tripod for this lens - and as USAFRet suggested, you will need to practice.

Or, if you have a really steady tripod, you can get an even longer telephoto for $299.95 - a Rokinon 650-2600mm (7020mm equivalent (!)): http://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-53200-19255-0/1?icep_...

With this lens, you can count the rivets on the launch vehicle :) 

Hope this is helpful and good luck at the launch!

Bill
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August 27, 2013 8:05:30 AM

brunerww said:
... I've been to a few launches, and this is a tough problem.


Bill,
Thanks for the reply. It is awesome to have some advice from a launch veteran. It is not too late. I am planning to get something next week, so this advice was just in time. First, I am curious as to what type of equipment you used, and where you were located. Were you pleased with the photos you took? What kind of zoom did you have, and how large was the launch vehicle in your pictures (I won’t have a zoom that will let me see the bolts – though it would be way cool  ).

One of my concerns is that I don’t know exactly where I will be. Because of my relationship with NASA through my company, I expect to receive a pass to the customer viewing site. But I am not sure what/where this is. What I have heard is, I will meet at the Visitor’s Center, and then get on a bus and go somewhere. But I don’t know where. If it is to the causeway, then it should be the best view there is. But I have heard there is also a Guest Viewing area that is much closer to the Pad (~5 miles), but it doesn’t have a clear view of the ground because of trees. You don’t see the launch vehicle until it is off the ground – that would be horrible, IMO. As we get closer, if it sounds like they are gonna stick me there, I may just bolt and try to get on the private bus that takes people to the causeway.

I have pretty much narrowed my search down to 2 cameras, both point-n-shoot. While I appreciate that the SLR will likely give better results, I also need this camera purchase to last 5 – 10 years, and it has to be something that my wife will feel comfortable picking up, turning on, and taking some quick pics of the grandkids. She has used our daughter’s SLR, and didn’t like it much. So, I am down to the Sony you mentioned, and a new player – the Panasonic Lumix DMC-FZ70. I have read some pre-release reviews, and I think it may do the job. It has a 60x zoom (20mm – 1200mm), with a great wide angle capability. It is supposed to allow us to take full 16MP stills during 1080i video, about the same as the Sony. It is available on Monday of next week, which is why I have waited. I have tried out the Sony (in a store – so not really trying it out), and want to see the Lumix before deciding. I am leaning toward the Lumix, but am open to you or somebody else out there teaching me better. I was disappointed to find out that the new FZ70 will not use the Leica lenses, is that a big deal? Also, is buying a new model camera like buying a new model car – is it a mistake to get one of the first ones off the shelf? Or should I be ok?

I have chatted with Panasonic technical support about the camera, so I feel pretty comfortable that it has the zoom range, stills during video, battery life and quick refresh rate that I am looking for. Is there a reason to NOT buy the Lumix?

How about practicing? Any suggestions on what I can practice on? I have heard that, despite its huge size, I will be amazed at how fast the launch vehicle moves after liftoff – will following it be difficult? What type of practice will be most beneficial? Will following planes be good practice? Going horizontal will be very different from following a vertical liftoff. Using a tripod moving horizontally will also be very different. I can also follow cars. I live in the Colorado mountains, and can see the interstate a couple miles away. I could easily follow cars down the highway, but again this will be horizontal (except when I catch an accident). Any suggestions for what else to practice on?

Thanks for your advice, I really appreciate it.

Martin

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a b w Digital camera
August 27, 2013 8:08:55 AM

'Practice' also means getting very, very familiar with the camera settings. You don't want to have to whip out the manual just before launch to set something up.
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August 31, 2013 3:10:01 PM


Hi Martin,

Sorry it's taken so long to get back to you. I wanted to have enough time to answer your questions in detail, and I wasn't able to find it until the weekend :( 

I worked Space Shuttle launches as part of my job for two and a half years between mid-2006 and early 2009.

My launch photography experience was limited to the few minutes I wasn't working.

I was able to take a few pictures of the launch on STS-124 before I went back to work. Only one was worth anything (the vehicle went into the clouds shortly after launch, and I lost it):



So, to answer your questions:

martincco said:
I am curious as to what type of equipment you used, and where you were located. Were you pleased with the photos you took? What kind of zoom did you have, and how large was the launch vehicle in your pictures?
,

- I used an old Casio P505 - one of the earliest still/video hybrid point and shoot cameras - maximum zoom range was equivalent to 190mm on a 35mm camera.

- I was about 3 miles away, so 190mm was not sufficient.

- I was definitely not pleased with my pictures - if I had it to do over again, I would take a tripod and cameras with real telephoto lenses and modern sensors :) 

martincco said:
One of my concerns is that I don’t know exactly where I will be. Because of my relationship with NASA through my company, I expect to receive a pass to the customer viewing site. But I am not sure what/where this is. What I have heard is, I will meet at the Visitor’s Center, and then get on a bus and go somewhere. But I don’t know where. If it is to the causeway, then it should be the best view there is. But I have heard there is also a Guest Viewing area that is much closer to the Pad (~5 miles), but it doesn’t have a clear view of the ground because of trees. You don’t see the launch vehicle until it is off the ground – that would be horrible, IMO. As we get closer, if it sounds like they are gonna stick me there, I may just bolt and try to get on the private bus that takes people to the causeway.


The buses that meet at the Visitors' Center usually go either to the Causeway or Banana Creek/Saturn V, which, as you say, is a little closer. I can't speak to whether there are trees at Banana Creek - I was at a third viewing location. That said, the causeway is pretty darned far away (I don't know where your pad is going to be, but it is a solid 5 miles from 39A).

martincco said:
I was disappointed to find out that the new FZ70 will not use the Leica lenses, is that a big deal? Also, is buying a new model camera like buying a new model car – is it a mistake to get one of the first ones off the shelf? Or should I be ok?...Is there a reason to NOT buy the Lumix?


The answer to all of these questions is no. Panasonic knows how to build superzooms. Of course, I am prejudiced, I bought my wife a Panasonic FZ150 a few years ago, and it's still a great little camera :) 



martincco said:
How about practicing? Any suggestions on what I can practice on? I have heard that, despite its huge size, I will be amazed at how fast the launch vehicle moves after liftoff – will following it be difficult? What type of practice will be most beneficial? Will following planes be good practice? Going horizontal will be very different from following a vertical liftoff. Using a tripod moving horizontally will also be very different. I can also follow cars. I live in the Colorado mountains, and can see the interstate a couple miles away. I could easily follow cars down the highway, but again this will be horizontal (except when I catch an accident). Any suggestions for what else to practice on?


I wouldn't worry about horizontal versus vertical. I would focus on becoming intimately familiar with your new FZ70 (and your tripod). You should know how to control the speed of the zoom, override the autofocus if it screws up (it won't, but you should be prepared), take stills during video - all without taking your eye off the viewfinder.

I would also carry an extra SD card, in case the primary freezes up or is corrupted. I can't imagine that you would need a spare battery, unless there is a launch delay, but it wouldn't hurt.

Again, hope this is helpful and best of luck!

Bill







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