Correct cpu temps

diabedo

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I have the ASUS Maximus VI Extreme with the "OC Panel" among other things the panel gives a read out of current CPU temp. The only problem is that the OC panel will read a temp of 40C while Core Temp will read 60C. How can i tell which is more accurate?
 
Solution
diabedo, nice overclock.

What is your Ambient temperature?
Have you run Prime95 Small FFT's?
What type of cooling are you using?

Intel's Thermal Specification - http://ark.intel.com/products/75123/Intel-Core-i7-4770K-Processor-8M-Cache-up-to-3_90-GHz - for your i7 4770K is 72C, however, the technical definition of their specification is very complicated, so I'll break it down for you.

There are 5 thermal sensors in a 4 core processor; a single Analog sensor (CPU temperature) and 4 individual Digital sensors (Core temperatures).

The temperature shown in Intel's specification, (Tcase), is measured on the surface of the Integrated Heat Spreader (IHS) under tightly controlled laboratory conditions at 22C Standard Ambient (intake...

CompuTronix

Intel Master
Moderator
diabedo, nice overclock.

What is your Ambient temperature?
Have you run Prime95 Small FFT's?
What type of cooling are you using?

Intel's Thermal Specification - http://ark.intel.com/products/75123/Intel-Core-i7-4770K-Processor-8M-Cache-up-to-3_90-GHz - for your i7 4770K is 72C, however, the technical definition of their specification is very complicated, so I'll break it down for you.

There are 5 thermal sensors in a 4 core processor; a single Analog sensor (CPU temperature) and 4 individual Digital sensors (Core temperatures).

The temperature shown in Intel's specification, (Tcase), is measured on the surface of the Integrated Heat Spreader (IHS) under tightly controlled laboratory conditions at 22C Standard Ambient (intake temperature). For lab testing only, a groove is cut into the surface of the IHS where a thermocouple is embedded at the center. The stock cooler is attached, and a steady-state 100% workload is applied, (such as Prime95 Small FFT's). Thermal saturation is reached within 10 minutes.

Since there is no thermocouple on any processors outside Intel's labs in the wholesale or retail outlets, a single Analog Thermal Diode is instead used to "emulate" a thermocouple. This single analog sensor is located in the center of the lower layers of the processor package and is called "CPU" temperature, which is the equivalent of "Tcase".

The analog value is converted to digital (A to D) by the Super I/O (Input / Output) chip on the motherboard, then is calibrated to look-up tables coded into BIOS, which are all too often inaccurate. This is the temperature you see in BIOS and in monitoring utilities such as AI Suite II or OC Panel, which are provided by motherboard manufacturers.

"Core" temperature, also called "Tjunction", is measured at the heat source by individual Digital Thermal Sensors (DTS) for each Core, which are factory calibrated. Since the CPU sensor is not in close proximity to the heat sources, there is ~5C thermal gradient or "offset" between "Core" temperature and "CPU" temperature during Prime95 Small FFT's.

This means that Intel's "CPU" temperature (Tcase specification) runs ~5C less than "Core" temperatures. More correctly, since there is always some temperature sensor discrepancies between Cores, "average" Core temperature is most important. So at stock clock with the stock cooler, if Prime95 Small FFT's is run for 10 minutes at 22C Ambient, then the average Core temperature would be 77C.

Standard Ambient = 22C
Tcase (CPU Temp) = 72C
CPU / Core Offset + 5C
Tjunction (Core Temp) = 77C
Tj Max (Shutdown Temp) = 105C

Tj Max is Intel's Thermal Specification which defines the "Core" temperature at which the processor will shutdown. Excessive heat kills electronics. Most folks in the Intel overclocking community will agree that any sustained temperatures greater than high 70's are just too hot for a 12 hour stability test or for processor longevity.

Bottom line? Without knowing the answers to my first questions, your "CPU" temperature is wrongly indicating ~ 15C too low, but your "Core" temperatures are well within Intel's specs. You're OK up to the high 70's, but remember that when running Prime95 Small FFT's, if you're testing below or above 22C Standard Ambient, then you need to add or subtract the difference so that your test results are corrected to Intel's standards. This way you eliminate variables, and your results will always be consistent and repeatable.

Some additional thoughts to keep in mind - Thermal Testing:

Prime95 Small FFT's is the standard for processor thermal testing, because it's a steady-state 100% workload. This is the test that Real Temp uses to test sensor movement. Prime95's default test, Blend, is a cyclic workload for testing memory stability, and is not suitable for thermal testing. Other tests such as IBT (Intel Burn Test) have segments that flood all registers with all one's, which is the equivalent of a 110% workload. While suitable for stability testing, IBT is uncharacteristic of real-world maximum loads. You can see for yourself by using the "Graphs" in SpeedFan to illustrate and compare how these tests create different thermal behaviors. On air cooling, thermal saturation is typically reached within 10 minutes, however on liquid cooling, saturation may require up to 30 minutes.

I hope this answers any questions you may have about processor temperatures.

Comp :sol:
 
Solution

diabedo

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well its hard to answer your first question seeing how i dont know what to trust exactly. Core Temp reads approx 45C ambient while the "OC panel" will read 30C.
I have run Prime95 for 6hrs and maxed out my temp at 80C, but again i dont know what temp monitor to take as accurate.
at this moment i had to go back stock intel heatsink, and had to go back to stock frequencies. i had to RMA my corsair h100i. (should be getting that tomorrow). thats when my question arised, with these vastly different temp readings. and im using ic Diamond thermal paste.
 

CompuTronix

Intel Master
Moderator
"Ambient" means room temperature, or more accurately, the temperature near your computer's air intakes. Use a trusted indoor analog or digital thermometer to measure Ambient temperature.

I recommend "Real Temp" to measure "Core" temperatures, but whatever you run, make certain that it's the latest release, since Haswell is relatively new.

As I explained in my previous post, "CPU" temperature is coded into BIOS by the motherboard manufacturer, and is often inaccurate, so you should trust "Core" temperatures.

Also, as I explained, there's a difference between Prime95 "Blend" and "Small FFT's". Which did you run to determine your temperatures?
 

diabedo

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that was stupid of me. my room temp is 27C, 30C max. Real temp tells me the same as Core Temp give or take a few degrees. so ive come to the conclusion that this OC panel from ASUS is crap like everyone says. i will no longer be using it.

i should be getting my new h100i tomorrow and hopfully i can get good temps again even with my OC profile. if not, then i will be doing a delidding. i knew i was taking a risk with the new haswell chipset. i guess i cant be too surprised.
 

CompuTronix

Intel Master
Moderator
So at 27C Ambient (5C above Standard Ambient) with your H100i running Prime95 Small FFT's for 30 minutes, if your average Core temperature was 80C, then if we correct your Ambient temperature to the 22C Standard, your Core temperature would actually be 75C.

Your particular 4770K sample is most likely a fairly good one, because at an OC of 4.6, 75C is a very good Core temperature. I think your Vcore must be fairly low during Small FFT's.

So now I'm curious; what is your overclock Vcore?
 

diabedo

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1.35v was the lowest i could go while remaining stable.
i feel like i might have damaged it (even tho i almost certainly didnt). because i had it on the stock heatsink when i first got it and it never ran as hot as it does now. im hoping my water cooler will give the the cool temps i had previous.
 

CompuTronix

Intel Master
Moderator
That's surprising. It's not recommended to push Vcore above 1.30v on 22 nanometer processors. When you get your H100i reinstalled, first measure your Ambient, then run Prime95 Small FFT's for 30 minutes. This is the correct method to conduct a processor thermal test for liquid cooling.

At 4.6 Ghz with 1.35 Vcore, even if you adjust your results for 22C Standard Ambient, I think you'll find that such a high Vcore will result in higher temperatures when you follow the correct test method.

Here's a Vcore FYI table:

65 Nanometer - 1.50 Vcore (1st Generation Core 2 Processors)
45 Nanometer - 1.40 Vcore (2nd Generation Core 2 Processors)
45 Nanometer - 1.40 Vcore (1st Generation Core i Processors )
32 Nanometer - 1.35 Vcore (2nd Generation Core i Processors)
22 Nanometer - 1.30 Vcore (3rd & 4th Generation Core i Processors)

Sustained core voltages above these values will significantly accelerate the process of "electromigration" (Google it) which erodes the traces and junctions within the processor's layers of nano-circuits.
 

diabedo

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http://postimg.org/image/lwcujwacn/

Got my new h100i today and re-overclocked to 4.4 and as you can see it runs beautifully.
It runs at 40C at idle and im going to push it as far as i can go over the weekend.