Raid 5 box
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choucove
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Selecting the right server for your needs is dependent upon a lot of factors, so lets get some more questions and answers and then we can probably help with making a little better recommendations.
- First, how many computers will be accessing to this shared storage?
- What is the data usage type that you will be primarily using, such as small word documents, larger art files, or really big video or database type files?
- Will it be pretty continuous access, or just occasionally?
- What sort of storage capacity do you need total?
- Do you have gigabit network infrastructure already in place?
- What sort of control do you need, such as user access restrictions, remote access, join to a domain?
- Are there other services that you wish to run, such as remote access, webpage, ftp, centralized backups, etc?
- And finally, what is your budget for this project?
- First, how many computers will be accessing to this shared storage?
- What is the data usage type that you will be primarily using, such as small word documents, larger art files, or really big video or database type files?
- Will it be pretty continuous access, or just occasionally?
- What sort of storage capacity do you need total?
- Do you have gigabit network infrastructure already in place?
- What sort of control do you need, such as user access restrictions, remote access, join to a domain?
- Are there other services that you wish to run, such as remote access, webpage, ftp, centralized backups, etc?
- And finally, what is your budget for this project?
-10 computers will be accessing this shared storage
-Primary use will be small word documents (secondary would be Videos, database files)
-Continuous access
-2 TB is more than enough, thus thinking of going with a Raid 5 because losing these files will be a major drawback
-sadly no, only a megabit, a simply swap of the current megabit switch board on the rack is in call
-Yes exactly what you stated, domain controller, file storage, and some sort of automated Windows updates, remote access
around $1,000-$1,500
And i am glad that you replied was reading a previous posting of yours - http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/354537-28-small-business-server-recommendations
-Primary use will be small word documents (secondary would be Videos, database files)
-Continuous access
-2 TB is more than enough, thus thinking of going with a Raid 5 because losing these files will be a major drawback
-sadly no, only a megabit, a simply swap of the current megabit switch board on the rack is in call
-Yes exactly what you stated, domain controller, file storage, and some sort of automated Windows updates, remote access
around $1,000-$1,500
And i am glad that you replied was reading a previous posting of yours - http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/354537-28-small-business-server-recommendations
choucove
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Given some of the information that you provided then, I'd like to make some suggestions first, and perhaps also address some other questions for you to consider.
Do you currently have a server in place for a domain controller, remote access, etc? If not, then I'd highly recommend switching perspective from looking at a simple storage device to an actual server, which is going to give you a whole lot more versatility. A simple NAS device is a basic computer running a slimmed down operating system specifically intended for sharing files but that is it. It's not going to give you the flexibility to do things like running a domain, allowing remote desktop or remote access, web hosting, print servers, etc. A network with ten computers should start to look into a domain environment where all the computers are joined to a managed network, centralized administration of user accounts, and shared files and resources. Beyond 10 computers and a simple workgroup just starts having a lot of difficulties.
If you are only needing 2 TB of storage space then I would definitely recommend staying with RAID 1 instead of RAID 5. It is much easier to recover data in the event of a myriad of different failure possibilities in a RAID 1 array than a RAID 5. It is also going to cost you less to buy two hard drives than to buy three, and you are still protected in the event of a single drive failure.
Pulling across files continuously on that many computers, even if they are small files, really needs to have a gigabit network in place. A single 10/100 Mbps ethernet connection to your NAS or server is going to quickly get saturated to the point it is almost unusable. Figure in the cost of an additional nice quality gigabit switch with your new server.
Do you currently have a server in place for a domain controller, remote access, etc? If not, then I'd highly recommend switching perspective from looking at a simple storage device to an actual server, which is going to give you a whole lot more versatility. A simple NAS device is a basic computer running a slimmed down operating system specifically intended for sharing files but that is it. It's not going to give you the flexibility to do things like running a domain, allowing remote desktop or remote access, web hosting, print servers, etc. A network with ten computers should start to look into a domain environment where all the computers are joined to a managed network, centralized administration of user accounts, and shared files and resources. Beyond 10 computers and a simple workgroup just starts having a lot of difficulties.
If you are only needing 2 TB of storage space then I would definitely recommend staying with RAID 1 instead of RAID 5. It is much easier to recover data in the event of a myriad of different failure possibilities in a RAID 1 array than a RAID 5. It is also going to cost you less to buy two hard drives than to buy three, and you are still protected in the event of a single drive failure.
Pulling across files continuously on that many computers, even if they are small files, really needs to have a gigabit network in place. A single 10/100 Mbps ethernet connection to your NAS or server is going to quickly get saturated to the point it is almost unusable. Figure in the cost of an additional nice quality gigabit switch with your new server.
Ok thank you. Well this was my original plan, I planned on using a old rig with duo core on it (2 gigs of ram), was going to have 2x 64 gb SSD in raid 1 with just the server os. Then have a raid of hdd's to store/back up the data. Was considering 2008 R2 Standard or the new version 2012 R2.
I was also considering running ubuntu on some subnet on some VMs to cut costs but I was not sure. And yes I plan to drop a gigabit switch w/ the server and suggestions?
I was also considering running ubuntu on some subnet on some VMs to cut costs but I was not sure. And yes I plan to drop a gigabit switch w/ the server and suggestions?
choucove
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You can always utilize some older low-performance hardware for a basic file server if you don't have much demand or budget to work with but here is my warning: Old hardware has less compatibility with current and new software and hardware meaning it will be harder to fix throughout its intended lifespan, which is already decreased anyways because it is old hardware and thus the chance of failure is much greater. The server will be the heart of your network. If it goes down, how long will it take to replace, and how much of your daily life will be affected by it? Often this alone is enough for people to warrant the additional cost in purchasing a new system that is a true server built for longevity.
It sounds like what you need is more of an actual server and not just a NAS. Now, for a small office network you can get by doing the basic things like a small domain controller and file sharing with a basic dual-core processor an limited RAM, but it's going to be painful. The other problem there is flexibility and disaster recovery. Any business looking to put in a server today I recommend utilizing virtual machines. There are just so many benefits to doing this and very few reasons not to. Unfortunately you're not really going to be able to virtualize your server environment on the type of hardware you are talking about. You are much better off getting a new server system with a quad-core processor at least, and 8 GB of RAM plus room to expand in the future. The HP ProLiant ML310e G8 is a good place to start for many small businesses. The ProLiant 320e G8 is the rackmount version of it. Even though these are entry-level servers, they are highly flexible featuring dual-core and quad-core processors (I'd highly recommend at least a quad-core processor) with room for up to 32 GB of RAM and four 3.5" hard drives. The onboard software SATA 6 Gbps RAID controller on these servers is adequate for most needs, but for added performance and protection you can put in a dedicated hardware SAS RAID controller. There are also additional options such as redundant power supplies which can be very beneficial for business-critical server implementations.
The way that you set up your storage is going to depend on several factors including your expected performance and budget. The cheap and easy way of doing it is simply buy two 2 TB hard drives and put them in RAID 1. Install your operating system on the drives, and then create virtual machines with VHD files and attach those to your virtual machines giving you all the space you need on a single set of drives. However, sometimes you might want additional performance or additional capacity and flexibility. In that case I would recommend purchasing two separate lower-capacity drives in RAID 1 for your OS and for the primary VHD of your virtual machines (again just for the OS of your virtual machines.) Then create a separate RAID 1 array of your data hard drives. You can either create multiple VHD files on the Data array and attach them to multiple VMs if needed, or you can pass through the entire array directly to one of your virtual machines to have direct access. However, using SSDs for the boot OS drives of your server is not going to be greatly beneficial. The primary area you will have disk access occurring and needing the throughput is in your data drives, but even then you are most likely going to be limited by the throughput of your network infrastructure first. If you need additional performance for running multiple simultaneous virtual machines, then you can look into SSDs or even SAS drives.
How many devices do you have needing ethernet connectivity in your network? Again I prefer HP ProCurve switches as they are great quality and offer a huge feature set for the price. If you don't need any management capabilities on the switch, you can go with the basic gigabit V1410 series. If you instead want management capabilities including VLANs, network monitoring, link aggregation, etc. then you should go with the 1810 series.
It sounds like what you need is more of an actual server and not just a NAS. Now, for a small office network you can get by doing the basic things like a small domain controller and file sharing with a basic dual-core processor an limited RAM, but it's going to be painful. The other problem there is flexibility and disaster recovery. Any business looking to put in a server today I recommend utilizing virtual machines. There are just so many benefits to doing this and very few reasons not to. Unfortunately you're not really going to be able to virtualize your server environment on the type of hardware you are talking about. You are much better off getting a new server system with a quad-core processor at least, and 8 GB of RAM plus room to expand in the future. The HP ProLiant ML310e G8 is a good place to start for many small businesses. The ProLiant 320e G8 is the rackmount version of it. Even though these are entry-level servers, they are highly flexible featuring dual-core and quad-core processors (I'd highly recommend at least a quad-core processor) with room for up to 32 GB of RAM and four 3.5" hard drives. The onboard software SATA 6 Gbps RAID controller on these servers is adequate for most needs, but for added performance and protection you can put in a dedicated hardware SAS RAID controller. There are also additional options such as redundant power supplies which can be very beneficial for business-critical server implementations.
The way that you set up your storage is going to depend on several factors including your expected performance and budget. The cheap and easy way of doing it is simply buy two 2 TB hard drives and put them in RAID 1. Install your operating system on the drives, and then create virtual machines with VHD files and attach those to your virtual machines giving you all the space you need on a single set of drives. However, sometimes you might want additional performance or additional capacity and flexibility. In that case I would recommend purchasing two separate lower-capacity drives in RAID 1 for your OS and for the primary VHD of your virtual machines (again just for the OS of your virtual machines.) Then create a separate RAID 1 array of your data hard drives. You can either create multiple VHD files on the Data array and attach them to multiple VMs if needed, or you can pass through the entire array directly to one of your virtual machines to have direct access. However, using SSDs for the boot OS drives of your server is not going to be greatly beneficial. The primary area you will have disk access occurring and needing the throughput is in your data drives, but even then you are most likely going to be limited by the throughput of your network infrastructure first. If you need additional performance for running multiple simultaneous virtual machines, then you can look into SSDs or even SAS drives.
How many devices do you have needing ethernet connectivity in your network? Again I prefer HP ProCurve switches as they are great quality and offer a huge feature set for the price. If you don't need any management capabilities on the switch, you can go with the basic gigabit V1410 series. If you instead want management capabilities including VLANs, network monitoring, link aggregation, etc. then you should go with the 1810 series.
choucove
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Besides the actual hardware cost, you will also have software costs. This is going to vary depending upon which operating system you choose. If you wanted to stick with a simple workgroup network, you could use Windows 8 on the physical server, and you could even buy another copy of Windows 8 and create a VM to run all of your services from which makes it much easier to migrate that VM to other different hardware in the event of failures or upgrades. However, that's not going to be able to give you a domain environment. To do that, you either need to step up to Server 2012 Essentials or Server 2012 Standard. The Essentials licensing is the cheaper option, but does not support virtualization. It is also limited to 25 users maximum, but that should fit within your needs. I'd suggest Server 2012 Standard if you wish to use virtualization, which again I would also recommend.
An HP ProCurve 1810G-24 is going to run about $200. There are a couple different ways to go about purchasing the HP ProLiant server (or similar) which primarily would be either purchasing the base server and then your additional necessary components (RAM and hard drives) or purchasing the complete system pre-configured direct from HP or another HP reseller, which may cost a little more. Again, you also have to decide if you are going to go with the pedestal or rackmount server system. Rackmount systems tend to be a little more expensive than the pedestal equivalent, though if you have room for rackmount it's nice to have it all together in one place and easily managed with a nice battery backup.
An HP ProCurve 1810G-24 is going to run about $200. There are a couple different ways to go about purchasing the HP ProLiant server (or similar) which primarily would be either purchasing the base server and then your additional necessary components (RAM and hard drives) or purchasing the complete system pre-configured direct from HP or another HP reseller, which may cost a little more. Again, you also have to decide if you are going to go with the pedestal or rackmount server system. Rackmount systems tend to be a little more expensive than the pedestal equivalent, though if you have room for rackmount it's nice to have it all together in one place and easily managed with a nice battery backup.
choucove
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Every situation is going to be slightly different in your needs, but generally here are the overall components you will need.
- Gigabit network switch. This will connect all of your LAN devices and give you the network throughput to support transfer and access of data from multiple simultaneous computers to your server. Count the number of network devices that need to be wire connected (don't forget to include things like printers, wireless routers, and server) and then add a few extra for growth. You don't want to purchase a switch with JUST enough switchports for your current needs and then have to purchase a different one a year from now because you want to add another computer and printer. Leave room for expansion.
- Server system. If you already have a rackmount cabinet then you can probably go with a rackmount server but be cautious about size compatibility. Rackmount servers like the HP ProLiant DL320e G8 can require at least 30" of mounting depth for the rack rails, and not all server racks have that much mounting depth. If you don't have a rackmount cabinet already, it might not be worth the additional cost to purchase one at this point unless you are planning to grow to multiple servers, switches, routers, and UPS systems. A pedestal server system is like a standard desktop computer. The ProLiant ML310e G8 is a microATX desktop supporting up to 4 hard drives so it's about the same size as a standard desktop. You will want a keyboard mouse and monitor to initially configure it, but once it is up and running will not need to have those. Some more powerful servers, such as the ML350p G8, are much bigger physically because they accommodate much more hardware.
- Server hardware. Depending upon how you order your server system, it may just be the base configuration, and you may need to purchase additional hardware to fit your needs. This may include additional RAM and your necessary hard drives. Be aware that HP Generation 8 servers requires HP Generation 8 compatible hard drives, which are more expensive than standard hard drives, but are enterprise-class drives with their HP SmartDrive caddy system specifically for these servers. There may also be some additional optional hardware you wish to purchase, including redundant power supplies for your server (if supported) and an add-in hardware RAID controller.
- Server software and licensing. This is the cost of licensing the operating system with whatever OS you choose, whether that is Windows 7/8 or Windows Server 2008/2012. Server 2012 Standard can actually be a pretty substantial portion of your total costs, so do not forget to budget that in if you are working on an overall budget or expense plan. Depending upon which OS you choose there will be different ways the licensing will work. For example, a single license of Windows 8 will license a single computer, which means you'd also need a separate Windows 8 license for each VM also running Windows 8 if you decide to virtualize that way. However, if you go with Server 2012 Standard, the licensing allows you to install on one physical server AND use that license on up to two virtual machines running on that physical server. Additional virtual machines of Server 2012 on that same physical server requires purchasing an additional "add-on" license for Windows Server 2012 Standard.
- UPS battery backup. It is very important to protect your server from electrical fluctuations which can damage computer equipment. You also don't want your computer suddenly powering off in the event of a power outage, which could cause damage to hardware or data on your server. I've known situations where files and databases were corrupted because a computer system shut off from power outage suddenly and damaged the files currently in use. Picking out a UPS can be difficult. You want to be sure to find something that is PFC compatible and at minimum has the rated wattage support as the maximum wattage of the power supply of your servers. Also, be careful how many devices you connect to battery on your UPS as the more you have running on battery the less runtime you will have. Most of the times when discussing this with customers I recommend a 1500VA / 900W UPS for running a server system with 500W power supply or less and connecting the network equipment to the battery backup as well. If the power supply in the server is greater than that, or redundant power supplies are being used, then I'd suggest at least a separate 650VA /300W UPS for running the network equipment separate of the server.
- Gigabit network switch. This will connect all of your LAN devices and give you the network throughput to support transfer and access of data from multiple simultaneous computers to your server. Count the number of network devices that need to be wire connected (don't forget to include things like printers, wireless routers, and server) and then add a few extra for growth. You don't want to purchase a switch with JUST enough switchports for your current needs and then have to purchase a different one a year from now because you want to add another computer and printer. Leave room for expansion.
- Server system. If you already have a rackmount cabinet then you can probably go with a rackmount server but be cautious about size compatibility. Rackmount servers like the HP ProLiant DL320e G8 can require at least 30" of mounting depth for the rack rails, and not all server racks have that much mounting depth. If you don't have a rackmount cabinet already, it might not be worth the additional cost to purchase one at this point unless you are planning to grow to multiple servers, switches, routers, and UPS systems. A pedestal server system is like a standard desktop computer. The ProLiant ML310e G8 is a microATX desktop supporting up to 4 hard drives so it's about the same size as a standard desktop. You will want a keyboard mouse and monitor to initially configure it, but once it is up and running will not need to have those. Some more powerful servers, such as the ML350p G8, are much bigger physically because they accommodate much more hardware.
- Server hardware. Depending upon how you order your server system, it may just be the base configuration, and you may need to purchase additional hardware to fit your needs. This may include additional RAM and your necessary hard drives. Be aware that HP Generation 8 servers requires HP Generation 8 compatible hard drives, which are more expensive than standard hard drives, but are enterprise-class drives with their HP SmartDrive caddy system specifically for these servers. There may also be some additional optional hardware you wish to purchase, including redundant power supplies for your server (if supported) and an add-in hardware RAID controller.
- Server software and licensing. This is the cost of licensing the operating system with whatever OS you choose, whether that is Windows 7/8 or Windows Server 2008/2012. Server 2012 Standard can actually be a pretty substantial portion of your total costs, so do not forget to budget that in if you are working on an overall budget or expense plan. Depending upon which OS you choose there will be different ways the licensing will work. For example, a single license of Windows 8 will license a single computer, which means you'd also need a separate Windows 8 license for each VM also running Windows 8 if you decide to virtualize that way. However, if you go with Server 2012 Standard, the licensing allows you to install on one physical server AND use that license on up to two virtual machines running on that physical server. Additional virtual machines of Server 2012 on that same physical server requires purchasing an additional "add-on" license for Windows Server 2012 Standard.
- UPS battery backup. It is very important to protect your server from electrical fluctuations which can damage computer equipment. You also don't want your computer suddenly powering off in the event of a power outage, which could cause damage to hardware or data on your server. I've known situations where files and databases were corrupted because a computer system shut off from power outage suddenly and damaged the files currently in use. Picking out a UPS can be difficult. You want to be sure to find something that is PFC compatible and at minimum has the rated wattage support as the maximum wattage of the power supply of your servers. Also, be careful how many devices you connect to battery on your UPS as the more you have running on battery the less runtime you will have. Most of the times when discussing this with customers I recommend a 1500VA / 900W UPS for running a server system with 500W power supply or less and connecting the network equipment to the battery backup as well. If the power supply in the server is greater than that, or redundant power supplies are being used, then I'd suggest at least a separate 650VA /300W UPS for running the network equipment separate of the server.
choucove
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It's hard to say where you can try and cut costs really, because the simple truth is quality servers are expensive. If you are looking into going with a new quality server system, you can get within that budget range if you do not do virtualization or stick with Windows 8 for your operating system and just do file sharing, but you're not going to be able to get the domain capabilities using just Windows 8. A workgroup of up to 10 computers will work fine still, but beyond that and you will start having issues, so it's not a very good solution when you look at future growth. Still, if you need you can look at purchasing and running Windows 8 and do your file sharing from there, and then save and budget to upgrade soon to Server 2012 Standard before you have to add any other computers into your network and you can then grow into a domain.
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