What water cooler should I get?

peterzhu2118 · Aug 27, 2013

I need opinions on which water cooler I should get for my 4770k. A Tt Water 2.0 Extreme or a CM Seidon 240M? Or should I wait for Water 3.0 Extreme? If so, when is it coming to Canada? And will these fit in a Tt Chaser A31?

JackNaylorPE · Aug 27, 2013

As long as it doesn't start with an "H", your ears should be fine. If ya want a QUIET, self contained CPU loop with future expansion possibilities Id recommend the Coolermaster Eisberg 240L Prestige. See how it can be expanded in 2nd link

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835103184
http://rog.asus.com/forum/showthread.php?33364-Maximus-VI-Formula-Show-Casemod-MbK

Eisberg 240L Prestige is 20.5 dBA
Water 2.0 Extreme/ is 27.36 (7.3 times as loud)
Seidon 240M is 40 dBA (90.5 times as loud )

peterzhu2118 · Aug 27, 2013

Its a little expensive, cuz the 240M is 65$ and the 2.0 Extreme is 70$

peterzhu2118 · Aug 27, 2013

And I dont really care about noise and I will change the fans on the radiator to a silent one and the thermal grease to AS5

menetlaus · Aug 27, 2013

Why do you need a water cooling setup?

If it's because you want one (or are planning a monster OC) then go for it, it's your money.

If it's because you think you need it to run the CPU as cool as possible (and are running stock) - don't go watercooling. Get a good $70-100 air heatsink and fan and never have to worry about how much water is in the reservoir, if the pump is working, if it's going to leak and ruin a $350 CPU.

JackNaylorPE · Aug 27, 2013

peterzhu2118 :

Using all prices from same site ...
$86 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835103181
$85 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835106190

Changing the fans to quieter (lower rpm) ones means greatly reduced performance....the noise comes from large amounts of air going thru rads, not the fans. Lower rpm fans = less air = less noise = less performance. By the time ya buy the fans and install them, ya total price approaches the quiet cooler. The other thing is the 240L's loop can be opened to cool additional components.

Read AS5's home page

http://www.arcticsilver.com/as5.htm

Important Reminder:
Due to the unique shape and sizes of the particles in Arctic Silver 5's conductive matrix, it will take a up to 200 hours and several thermal cycles to achieve maximum particle to particle thermal conduction and for the heatsink to CPU interface to reach maximum conductivity. (This period will be longer in a system without a fan on the heatsink or with a low speed fan on the heatsink.) On systems measuring actual internal core temperatures via the CPU's internal diode, the measured temperature will often drop 2C to 5C over this "break-in" period. This break-in will occur during the normal use of the computer as long as the computer is turned off from time to time and the interface is allowed to cool to room temperature. Once the break-in is complete, the computer can be left on if desired.

http://archive.benchmarkreviews.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=138&Itemid=1&limit=1&limitstart=5

So by my estimation of this statement it would take almost a year of normal use to properly cure the AS5 compound, or almost nine days of continuous power cycles to meet their recommendation. Benchmark Reviews feels that this is a characteristically unreasonable requirement for any TIM product, and we do not support it. We want products that perform without the burden of sacrifice on our time, especially with some many competing products offering performance without this extra requirement.

http://archive.benchmarkreviews.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=150&Itemid=62&limit=1&limitstart=12

Tuniq TX-3 (0) Aluminum Oxide Moderate 37.65°C A+
Gelid GC-Extreme (0) Aluminum Oxide Low / Thin 37.65°C A+
Thermaltake Grease A2150 (4) Polysynthetic Silver Low / Thin 37.65°C A+
Arctic Silver 5 Polysynthetic Thermal Compound (4) Polysynthetic Silver Low / Thin 37.55°C A+
Shin-Etsu MicroSi G751 (0) Aluminum Oxide Moderate 37.55°C A+

Each product tested received the curing time recommended (see below), or approximately one hour of thermal cycling prior to testing when no cure time was specified.
(0) No Curing Time or Special Application Suggested
(4) Arctic Silver 5 Application Instructions (up to 200-hours recommended curing time)

Shin Etsu ... all the thermal benefits, no curing time issues
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835150080

peterzhu2118 · Aug 27, 2013

Ok, forget the thermal grease, maybe stock or IC diamond

peterzhu2118 · Aug 27, 2013

Sometime I would run alot of virtual machines (like, 5+ servers) and that could generate alot of heat and use alot of RAM. And, do water coolers fail that much, to the point water inside a water coolers are a disadvantage?

edogawa · Aug 27, 2013

I wouldn't go with the "crap-mater" loop if I were you. If you're not doing a custom loop I'd say the only company to go with is Corsair. Unlike what the above guy said, the "H" series are not that loud, and perform well in in low RPM.

If you go with the H100i you can get a built in fan controller, and set the fans to quiet mode which is very quiet, and perform quite well.
-Quiet mode with stock fans is inaudible for me, the hard drive is louder.

Also, you won't need to change the fans because they are great, and have a high static pressure of 4.0.

You will get a 5 year warranty too, I used to have an H100i that lasted 3 years running 24/7.

This is if you want to spend the money though, but I think the h100i is a better investment if you're going closed loop. If I were you and running servers 24/7 with a heavy load, I'd go custom instead.

peterzhu2118 · Aug 27, 2013

I dont run 24/7, my servers are just tests, I run about 10 hours a day. The H100i (by Coolit) is about the same as Water 2.0 Extreme (by Asetek) or CM Seidon 240M (by CM)

edogawa · Aug 27, 2013

Yea, most will perform very similar or close, but Corsair offers some nice features, and a great warranty to boot.

peterzhu2118 · Aug 28, 2013

Because Tt and Corsair both uses Asetek and (we all know) Asetek makes great quality coolers. So, can you tell me the risks of water cooling? Is there such a high risk of leakage?

JackNaylorPE · Aug 28, 2013

If ya read the reviews, you will see that the Antec Kuhler gets the highest marks, far better than the Corsair. Unlike Corsair and the other copy cat vendors, they are all rebranded Aseteks.....with nothing to differentiate one from the other. Asetek builds the Kuhlers but the design is Antecs.

There's always a risk of leakage in any loop but ya have to decide if the risk is worth the improvement in noise and cooling. With the H series....there is no advantage .....it's 64 times noisier than the better air coolers and if ya change the fans to get quieter, then it doesn't cool as well as the air coolers..... to my mind, the risk/reward factor has no upside.... you get nothing beneficial for taking that risk.

http://archive.benchmarkreviews.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=694&Itemid=62&limit=1&limitstart=5

peterzhu2118 · Aug 28, 2013

So what are the chances of leaking? Is it big?

edogawa · Aug 28, 2013

I do not know which review Jack read, but the H series is better than the Kühler H2O slightly. Also, "64 times more nosier?" No, they are not loud unless you set it to maximum performance. The h100i/h80i series almost in-audible in quiet mode(1100-1200 RPM) while sacrificing a few degrees of cooling only.

Peter, it's great to grab an all in one with a large surface area like the H100i(or similar) so you can runt he fans at lower RPM and achieve the same cooling as one of the all in ones with a smaller rad.

The chance of them leaking? Improbable if you buy from a reputable brand(Corsair). I believe Corsair will cover leak damage too if something were to happen(they will work with you on it), but as I said, it's highly unlikely as long as you handle it carefully during installation.

There was the Swiftech H220 too I saw awhile ago, you may want to look in to that, it looked pretty good

JackNaylorPE · Aug 28, 2013

http://archive.benchmarkreviews.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=694&Itemid=62&limit=1&limitstart=5

Installing the Kühler is easier than most other compact liquid coolers due to the flexibility and length of its soft rubber hoses. The "universal" Intel backplate (on AMD systems, the stock motherboard backplate is used) keeps the parts count (and price) down, and while I prefer the more robust mounting system design of Asetek's original systems, the current mounting system certainly doesn't seem to affect the performance.

The performance of the Antec Kühler H20 620 was excellent, exceeding that of every other water cooler I've tested and encroaching on the performance range of the very best air coolers. The stock fan is quiet at full speed and very quiet at low speed. I tried replacing it with an 88CFM fan, which generated more perceived air flow and certainly more noise, but actually slightly less performance. It's not clear if just any 3-pin fan will work with Antec's unique fan speed control system, and it would be nice to see some information from Antec on this.

The construction quality of the Kühler was similar to that of other Asetek-sourced water coolers, which is to say that everything fit and worked correctly and the swivel mountings for the hoses pivoted freely. Antec silk-screens their logo on the pump housing and puts an "Antec" sticker on the fan's hub, but that's it as far as decoration goes. I'd like to see a little more effort expended on aesthetics.

But I'm not going to get hung up on the Kühler's minimalist aesthetic. The Antec Kühler H2O 620 is the best-performing water cooler I've tested, and that's why it gets a Golden Tachometer award.

Coolit ECO A.L.C. 75.2 +14.6
Corsair H50 73.1 +12.5
Coolit Vantage A.L.C. (extreme) 73.0 +12.4
Corsair H70 (low) 67.7 +7.1
Prolimatech Super Mega 67.2 +6.6
Antec Kühler H2O 620 65.9 +5.3
Corsair H70 (high) 65.3 +4.7
Thermalright Venomous X 63.0 +2.4
Thermalright Silver Arrow 61.8 +1.2
Cooler Master V6 GT 61.2 +0.6
Antec Kühler H2O 920 60.6 +0.0

http://archive.benchmarkreviews.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=721&Itemid=62&limit=1&limitstart=7

The performance of the Antec Kühler H20 920 was excellent, exceeding that of every other cooler I've tested. .....The value part of the equation is where the Kühler H2O 920 comes up short, because as of February 2012 it costs $97.99 (Newegg). Despite its amazing performance, its high price means that the Antec 920 simply isn't a very good value relative to other, less expensive coolers that perform very nearly as well. But as I discussed above, "value" isn't necessarily a determining factor in this part of the market. If you want the very best, this is it... at least until the next great cooler comes along.

As for the noise .....listen for yaself...cut to the chase at about 1:50

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cTf0Vq1j4Ec

The swiftech 220 is very quiet compared tot he H100 and it is very similar to the CM Eisberg 240L Prestige...you can hear that here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dSKSVKv3Sxk

Problem is not sold in US

http://www.swiftech.com/pr-7-19-13-h220-removedfromus.aspx

edogawa · Aug 28, 2013

Did you even read what I said? -I said it's nearly inaudible in QUIET mode, and it will ONLY lose a couple degrees of cooling potential. Any fan cranked up that high will be noisy.

Corsair is better in these, there were similar on other site benchmarks I've seen before that showed the same results.

http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/cooling/2012/11/30/corsair-h80i-review/2
http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/cooling/2012/12/05/corsair-h100i-review/2

I forgot about them not selling the 220 anymore in the US, that really stinks, it looked promising when I saw the demonstration. Stock fans for the 220 only have a static pressure of 0.53 ~ 2.29 mmH20 too, they would need to be replaced.

JackNaylorPE · Aug 29, 2013

Using the H100 in quiet mode drops about 5C

http://www.vortez.net/articles_pages/corsair_h100_hydro_series_extreme_performance_liquid_cpu_cooler,13.html

All results with same exact thermal paste

Antec Kuhler 920 w/ 2 stock fans = 51.25C
Phanteks PH-TC14-PE w/ 2 stock fans = 51.75C
Noctua DH-114 = 52.25C
Corsair H100 w/ 2 stock fans 2600 rpm = 52.50C
Thermalright Silver Arrow w/ 2 stock fans = 52.50C
Corsair H100 w/ 2 stock fans 2000 rpm = 54.50C
Corsair H100 w/ 2 stock fans 1375 rpm = 57.25C (Quiet Mode)

yes, the 220 looked promising but the Eisberg is quite impressive and is finding a home in high end build.....over $2000 spend on cooling system here and they used the Eisberg.....

http://rog.asus.com/forum/showthread.php?33364-Maximus-VI-Formula-Show-Casemod-MbK

edogawa · Aug 29, 2013

That's for the h100, not the new model, the h100i should perform better. I use the the H100i on my gaming PC, it only drops 2-3c in quiet mode for me.

Realistically it's kind of silly to worry about getting the lowest possible C with a all in one closed loop though, they will all be within a 2-8% margin. If he wanted the lowest possible "C" he could just do a custom loop, but that's expensive, and I doubt he'd want to do that.

He just needs one to do the job from a reputable brand in case of an issue, like Corsair like I said, they've replaced peoples hardware when there has been a leak. Kind of wish the Swiftech one was still sold in the US too, would have been a good one to purchase too.

JackNaylorPE · Aug 29, 2013

The reviews I have read have noted no heat difference but noise has dropped 1-2 dba

As to ya closed / open comment, that's one of the things I like about the CM Eisberg 240L Prestige, ya can "open" the loop and use it to cool other components..... cupla fittings and a few pieces of tubing and ya just cooled ya MoBo MOFSETS / NB/SB

Of course for just a few $ more ($150) ya can do real water cooling w/ what many consider to be the best WBs on the market
http://www.frozencpu.com/products/21235/ex-wat-270/XSPC_Raystorm_750_EX240_Extreme_Universal_CPU_Water_Cooling_Kit_New_Rev_4_Pump_Included_w_Free_Dead-Water.html

edogawa · Aug 29, 2013

I always takes reviews with a grain of salt, I've had both the H100/H100i, I version was 4-5c better. Also got better temperatures after using my own paste instead of stock on those things.

Those hybrid ones are pretty cool like you say, market is getting saturated with closed loops, will start seeing more hybrids soon I bet.

I've been considering going phase instead of custom liquid cooling on a extreme high-end build next year.

http://www.frozencpu.com/cat/l1/g49/Phase_Change.html

They have custom cases for these too, pretty slick.

JackNaylorPE · Aug 29, 2013

Im leaning this way ......

XSPC RayStorm High Performance Acetal CPU Liquid Cooling Block - Black Edition (Intel) (Sockets LGA 115x / 1366 / 2011)
XSPC Aluminum Red Edition Mounting Face Plate - Intel Raystorm CPU Block
Alphacool NexXxoS UT60 Full Copper Dual 140mm Radiator 324 x 144 x 60mm
AquaComputer Pump Adapter w/ Aqualis Reservoir and Pump Installed
Rigid Tubing, Bitspower Fittings

Using the Enthoo case (comes out September 3rd) so have to measure it up and see what fits

edogawa · Aug 29, 2013

I should show you the channel for a guy who does a phenomenal job on some of his builds.

http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCqChlb8y4cQ0jAFaNFPQLqA

Edit: Now we are just going way off topic, LOL!

peterzhu2118 · Aug 30, 2013

I think I'm gonna get an H100i.

JackNaylorPE · Aug 30, 2013

edogawa :

I wanna do this .... you have access to a milling machine ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jVPehMaHgM8

What water cooler should I get?

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