Diving into liquid cooling, a few questions first.

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cmi86

cmi86

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Hey guys as the title reads I am looking to ditch my trusty old 212 Evo for an open water loop. It's not really necessary as my temps are not out of line it's more of a new hobby and cool factor kind of thing that I have wanted to try for a while but the idea of putting water inside my baby has always spooked me but I think I am finally ready to jump. My first question is,

Is there any cons performance wise to purchasing an all parts included kit such as
http://www.frozencpu.com/products/21235/ex-wat-270/XSPC_Raystorm_750_EX240_Extreme_Universal_CPU_Water_Cooling_Kit_New_Rev_4_Pump_Included_w_Free_Dead-Water.html?tl=g30c321s1310&id=oQ5RfHQa#blank vs. sourcing out all of my components individually ?

#2 Without the 120's of my 212 pushing air over the VRM's are over heating issues likely or might the rear and top mount exhaust (sickleflow 120's) suck enough air to keep a flow over the VRM ? Im not willing to lessen my system stability just for cool factor, this is probably the biggest issue to me.

#3 In my research I have found that many use the compression fittings over the barbed nipples. Is this because the barbed nipples are prone to leaking or just an added safety measure ?

Any help greatly appreciated, thanks.

 
Solution
JackNaylorPE
@ 1.0 gpm ya have 1.5 psi .... enough to pump water 3.4 feet high.... D5 is 4.8 psi
@ 1.5 gpm ya have 1.1 psi .... enough to pump water 2.5 feet high..., D5 is 4.5 psi

Martins personal pump (35x2) does 12 and 11 at at 12V so it runs much slower and quieter at low voltages .... 4.0 PSI and 2.5 at 40% PWM ....not saying ya need that ..... just giving ya the range

Good reading

http://martinsliquidlab.org/pump-planning-guide/

In his example..... 1.5 psi - 0.3 (tubing and res) -0.28 PSI (Radiator) -1.7 PSI (CPU Block) = No Good

That WB alone has more loss at 1.0 gpm than the pump provides.,,,,he reports the Raystorm at avout 0.9 w/ 1/3 inch barbs

0.3 (tubing and res) + 0.28 PSI (Radiator) + 0.9 PSI (CPU Block) = 1.48 .... perty darn...
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firefoxx04

firefoxx04

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Watching this thread for answers as I am curious too.


I do know that the VRM's should not need much to keep cool. I assume your board is the M5A99FX pro listed in your sig? I used the same board paired with a phenom 965. When I was originally overclockign it, I did not have a case (only fan was the one on my huge heatsink). I could run the system full load for hours without any issues. I would just make sure to have a decent 120mm fan at the rear of your case to pull air over the VRMs. Maybe another on the front of your case or near your gpu.
 
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DarkSable

DarkSable

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1) The advantage, obviously, is that it's cheaper. The disadvantage is that you don't get to pick your parts. That doesn't matter as much if you aren't looking for 100% maximized cooling capacity and you aren't in an unusual situation. (Like I am with a watercooled Prodigy with the reservoir on the outside.)

2) The fans on the 212+ are high enough up that they aren't really doing that much to cool your VRMs anyways. As long as you have somewhat decent airflow through the case still, you'll be fine. I might go with a lower front intake, using the radiator fans as your exhaust.

3) I use them myself. They're just for added security, because the theory is that over a long amount of time if the computer gets jostled enough, the tubing could slip off the barb. However, I also use 3/8" (inner diameter) tubing on 1/2" barbs, so I really don't need it. That being said, I use them anyways, because it doesn't hurt, and any extra security is better. *(by the way, they don't use compression fittings - those are something specific. They use worm coils, or zip-ties.)
 
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JackNaylorPE

JackNaylorPE

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In light of the recent activity on WC, started a series of threads on the subject.....so wouldn't have to repeat too much

Water Cooling 101 - Should I / Why Bother ?
Water Cooling 102 - One Loop or Multiple Loops ?
Water Cooling 103 - Radiators and Fans
Water Cooling 104 - Reservoirs
Water Cooling 105 - Water Blocks
Water Cooling 106 - Pumps
Water Cooling 107 - Tubing
Water Cooling 108 - Fittings
Water Cooling 109 - Gadgets and Doodads
Water Cooling 110 - Coolants
Water Cooling 111 - Filling, Draining and Maintenance
Water Cooling 112 - Cases
Water Cooling 113 - Sick Loops - *Warning* - Spouse May Claim "Justifiable Homicide"
 
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JackNaylorPE

JackNaylorPE

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As to your questions.....

1. I was about to buy the same kit and then I started finding posts where peeps experienced seam / glue failures with acrylic reservoir. After researching the topic, I decided to go with a Borosilicate glass reservoir.

2, Can always add a little directional fan for this or add a MoBo water block to your loop.... of course they WB manufacturers tend only to make ones for enthusiast boards .......

Antec Spot Cool
http://www.antec.com/product.php?id=80&pid=15

Cooling Configurator
http://www.coolingconfigurator.com/

3. See Water Cooling 108 in post above

As to the kit components....

Radiator is a 35mm thick job.... for a CPU, I'm liking 240 x 60 thick ....
http://www.frozencpu.com/products/14856/ex-rad-332/Alphacool_NexXxoS_UT60_Full_Copper_Dual_120mm_Radiator.html?tl=g30c95s160

Pump I think is the weak point here.....and the only thing Id really be concerned about. If ya still want 'the kit". I'd upgrade to this one w/a D5 pump
http://www.frozencpu.com/products/16070/ex-wat-210/XSPC_Raystorm_EX240_Universal_CPU_Water_Cooling_Kit_w_D5_Variant_Pump_Included_and_Free_Dead-Water.html
 
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cmi86

cmi86

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Probably right, especially if I wanted to factor in a loop for the GPU at some point. I was trying to do this somewhat on the cheap but as is with any good project more money=less problems.
 
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JackNaylorPE

JackNaylorPE

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Here's where I am leaning:

AquaComputer Aqualis XT Scratch Resistance Reservoir w/ Fill Level Sensor and LED Holder, G1/4 - Nano Coated (34042)
AquaComputer Holder for Aqualis Series Reservoirs (34043)

Alphacool NexXxoS UT60 Full Copper Double 140mm Radiator 324 x 144 x 60mm (CPU Watts = 145 / Radiator Watts at 10C, 1200 rpm = 164)
XSPC 2 x 140mm Radiator Gasket - 3mm

XSPC RayStorm High Performance Acetal CPU Liquid Cooling Block - Black Edition (Intel) (Sockets LGA 115x / 1366 / 2011)
XSPC Aluminum Red Edition Mounting Face Plate - Intel Raystorm CPU Block

Swiftech MCP655-PWM-DRIVE 12v Water Pump - PWM Enabled w/ G1/4 Thread Ports (Perfectly Tapped)


 
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manofchalk

manofchalk

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Kits are cheaper, but you dont get to pick your parts. If what you want is in them, no reason not to go for one.
Though IMO you want to be buying a D5 pump, the X20 750 is only good for a CPU loop. It will struggle if you ever throw in a GPU down the line and it is expensive to upgrade away from it (I was caught in that position when I upgraded).

Just jury-rig a fan to blow around the CPU socket area, I use this old 80mm AMD heatsink fan that used to cool my Phenom II rig. Just zip tied onto some tubing and the rear 120mm fan grill.

Compressions and Barb + Clamp fittings do the same job just as well as each other, compression's just look nicer for a few dollars more.
 
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melikepie

melikepie

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1. The kit is a lot cheaper and you don't have to pick out your parts. Of course though what brand of kit you buy, will only put their products into the kit. Although it should be fine.

2. If your relying on your CPU cooler to cool your VRMs, you have a bad setup (some coolers are optimized to do just this, but the 212 EVO sure isn't). Anyway, the cooler is probably too high anyway to cool your VRMs, so your not really missing out on anything.

3. None should leak if installed properly. Compression fittings look better, but cost more. Barb fittings don't look at good, but are a lot cheaper.
 
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cmi86

cmi86

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Thanks for all the suggestions so far, i really appreciate it. I was digging around forums and reviews comparing the D5 pump and the X20 750 Rev 4 and I learned a lot. Mainly that the D5 indeed flows a lot more at a higher PSI proving to be far more suitable for a large capacity complex loop. However I was also surprised to learn that the Rev 4 version of the X20 is almost entirely re designed with higher quality pump internals and a molded nylon reservoir so no glued seams and no cracks. This review http://martinsliquidlab.org/2013/01/20/xspc-x2o-750-dual-bay-nylon-reservoir-pump/ appears to be very in depth and informative stating the V4 is very much improved and with suitable PSI and flow rates for a basic dual block loop. Upon further investigation I find this to be the general consensus for the V4. I'm stuck do I really need to spend the extra $$ on the D5 or will this new and improved X20 fit the bill ?
 
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JackNaylorPE

JackNaylorPE

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@ 1.0 gpm ya have 1.5 psi .... enough to pump water 3.4 feet high.... D5 is 4.8 psi
@ 1.5 gpm ya have 1.1 psi .... enough to pump water 2.5 feet high..., D5 is 4.5 psi

Martins personal pump (35x2) does 12 and 11 at at 12V so it runs much slower and quieter at low voltages .... 4.0 PSI and 2.5 at 40% PWM ....not saying ya need that ..... just giving ya the range

Good reading

http://martinsliquidlab.org/pump-planning-guide/

In his example..... 1.5 psi - 0.3 (tubing and res) -0.28 PSI (Radiator) -1.7 PSI (CPU Block) = No Good

That WB alone has more loss at 1.0 gpm than the pump provides.,,,,he reports the Raystorm at avout 0.9 w/ 1/3 inch barbs

0.3 (tubing and res) + 0.28 PSI (Radiator) + 0.9 PSI (CPU Block) = 1.48 .... perty darn close to 1.5 psi and that 1.0 gpm flow rate

Don't forget to look at fittings

http://martinsliquidlab.org/2011/01/30/fittings-and-elbow-impacts/
 
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cmi86

cmi86

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Thanks for the suggestion, that is good reading. I am still reading I just wanted to ask why they would even bother selling that raystorm kit i'm interested in if it is mathematically insufficient to serve the purpose it was designed for ?
 
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JackNaylorPE

JackNaylorPE

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be aware....

1. Make sure ya can fit a 60mm thicj rad

2. unlike the other kits....no tubing and fitttings in that one

6 x XSPC G1/4" Thread 3/8" ID x 1/2" OD Low Profile Compression Fitting - Black Chrome @ $5.99 each

http://www.frozencpu.com/products/20944/ex-tub-1970/XSPC_G14_Thread_38_ID_x_12_OD_Low_Profile_Compression_Fitting_-_Black_Chrome.html?tl=g30c409s1032

6 feet of Tygon 2475 Ultra Chemical Resistant Plasticizer Free Tubing - 3/8" ID (1/2" OD) - Clear (ACG00027)
http://www.frozencpu.com/products/10691/ex-tub-663/Tygon_2475_Ultra_Chemical_Resistant_Plasticizer_Free_Tubing_-_38_ID_12_OD_-_Clear_ACG00027.html?tl=g30c99s171
 
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cmi86

cmi86

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Awesome ! Thanks so much for all your help man.
 
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