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Trident X vs Mushkin Redline 2133 4X8G for Maximus VI formula 4770k mobo CPU - Which has better Compatibility and OC potential

Okay after taking advice from my last post. Now boiled down to two Choices. They are probably identical in performance so I am more worried about the compatibility issues and light OC potential. Never own Ram from either of the companies. So your help or vote is greatly appreciated. Thanks.

Mushkin Enhanced Redline 32GB (4 x 8GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 2133 (PC3 17000) Desktop Memory Model 994121R

• Timing 9-11-11-28
• Cas Latency 9
• Voltage 1.65V

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820226423

OR

G.SKILL Trident X Series 32GB (4 x 8GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 2133 (PC3 17000) Desktop Memory Model F3-2133C9Q-32GTX

• Timing 9-11-11-31
• Cas Latency 9
• Voltage 1.6V

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231618
41 answers Last reply Best Answer
More about trident mushkin redline 2133 4x8g maximus formula 4770k mobo cpu compatibility potential
  1. bjkill said:
    Okay after taking advice from my last post. Now boiled down to two Choices. They are probably identical in performance so I am more worried about the compatibility issues and light OC potential. Never own Ram from either of the companies. So your help or vote is greatly appreciated. Thanks.

    Mushkin Enhanced Redline 32GB (4 x 8GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 2133 (PC3 17000) Desktop Memory Model 994121R

    • Timing 9-11-11-28
    • Cas Latency 9
    • Voltage 1.65V

    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820226423

    OR

    G.SKILL Trident X Series 32GB (4 x 8GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 2133 (PC3 17000) Desktop Memory Model F3-2133C9Q-32GTX

    • Timing 9-11-11-31
    • Cas Latency 9
    • Voltage 1.6V

    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231618




    I've been using Mushkin memory for ages. I have 32GiB of Mushkin Redline DDR3-2133 9-11-10-28 (8x4GiB) in here. Works great
  2. Best answer
    I have been using Mushkin as my primary source of RAM for almost 20 years,......so far had one bum set (1 module of 2 bad) .... when GSkill came on the scene they were very inexpensive and I used them for about 8 months......had 4 sets fail to "get along" with existing sets when doing upgrades, 2 of them didn't work alone either....stopped buying at that point.

    id get the low profile ones tho .... $12 cheaper and not like the tall toothy things have a purpose.

    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820226422
  3. Know the Tridents will OC to 2400 at CL 10 on both my IB (350K) and also on my Z87 (470K) at base voltage and simply a change of the CL to 10, been using Tridents since their release and all have had OC room, currnetly have 32GB od 2400 on IB and 32GB of 2666 on Haswell
  4. Thank you for all the feedback. I guess I was never a believer in paying an absurd amount of money for gaming grade rams. So I have been a fan of Corsair Vengeance for the past 5 to 6 years. But I think both Mushkin and G.Skill are moving down the chain and coming out with more affordable ram for the Masses so this will be my first time buying them. I think they both have their pros and cons and I am sure they will be very similar performance wise. So I am going to go with the LP in Red from Mushkin. It matches my Mobo too. So I will be getting the "Mushkin Enhanced Redline 32GB (4 x 8GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 2133 (PC3 17000) Desktop Memory Model 994121"

    Thanks guys for the input.
  5. Hey, all other things being equal, aesthetics count.....if ya feel bad about abandoning Corsair, they have the Vengenace Pro in red but not in LP and w/ higher CAS
  6. JackNaylorPE said:
    Hey, all other things being equal, aesthetics count.....if ya feel bad about abandoning Corsair, they have the Vengenace Pro in red but not in LP and w/ higher CAS


    Actually I want to use something that is compatible. So compatibility comes first, then looks and performance is last :)
    Are we sure that the Redline 2133 4 x 8gb will work with my Asus Maximus VI formula with 4770k? I am about to order them on Newegg....
  7. The Fornula is a newer mobo, but know the Trident set has been tested with about all the other Asus mobos in the Z87 chipset, and unlike the mobo makers, GSkill does test the DRAM at full spec freq....

    http://www.gskill.com/en/product/f3-2133c9q-32gtx
  8. bjkill said:
    Actually I want to use something that is compatible. So compatibility comes first, then looks and performance is last :)
    Are we sure that the Redline 2133 4 x 8gb will work with my Asus Maximus VI formula with 4770k? I am about to order them on Newegg...


    There's not a single low profile 2 x 8GB set on the Formula's QVL ... only one is hi profile Corsair
    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820233287

    That felt weird .... don't think I have looked at a QVL "in this millenium" :)

    I haven't personally used it in a Formula yet (have several builds wating for Enthoo case to drop) but have on a dozen or so other ROG builds..... peeps on ROG forums have successfully used and it's a fav there. I have never had a compatibility issue with Mushkin RAM since I started using in mid 90s .... never had compatibility issue with Corsair but I use less often .... 60% Mushkin / 30 % Corsair / 10% other over last 20 years .... haven't use any "others" in last 4-5 years tho.

    It's not that I have any particular preference for Mushkin over Corsair .... just that Mushkin generally has either a slight spec or cost edge when I start picking. Neither have given me any trouble when uprading years later and adding more modules even when mixing brands with same timings and specs ... that hasn't been true with some others.
  9. If the cooler is an issue, the Tridents upper fin is removable, can normally just take off the one in slot 1 (two small screws, one on either side and the upper fin slides off. And presto change-Oh, low profile, with only a 1-2 degree difference
  10. can i insert 32gb gskill 2933mhz in a maximus vi formula?
  11. You can, to run them you'll need a 4770K OCed
  12. JackNaylorPE said:
    bjkill said:
    Actually I want to use something that is compatible. So compatibility comes first, then looks and performance is last :)
    Are we sure that the Redline 2133 4 x 8gb will work with my Asus Maximus VI formula with 4770k? I am about to order them on Newegg...


    There's not a single low profile 2 x 8GB set on the Formula's QVL ... only one is hi profile Corsair
    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820233287

    That felt weird .... don't think I have looked at a QVL "in this millenium" :)

    I looked at it too, and I noticed that my G.SKILL isn't listed, which may be one of the reasons I can't get an XMP profile to work. G.SKILL has given me an RMA number to exchange my memory, but they won't send me the other RAM first, which means my right will be down until I get the replacement memory.

    I haven't personally used it in a Formula yet (have several builds wating for Enthoo case to drop) but have on a dozen or so other ROG builds..... peeps on ROG forums have successfully used and it's a fav there. I have never had a compatibility issue with Mushkin RAM since I started using in mid 90s .... never had compatibility issue with Corsair but I use less often .... 60% Mushkin / 30 % Corsair / 10% other over last 20 years .... haven't use any "others" in last 4-5 years tho.

    It's not that I have any particular preference for Mushkin over Corsair .... just that Mushkin generally has either a slight spec or cost edge when I start picking. Neither have given me any trouble when uprading years later and adding more modules even when mixing brands with same timings and specs ... that hasn't been true with some others.

  13. My preference is definitely the G-Skill Trident, IMO Muskin was always just mainstream memory until lately anyway, extremely high overclockers avoided it.

    I do remember back when Corsair was the King and that was when they were 100% concentrating on their memory quality and making it better and better, but now they've branched into selling everything but the kitchen sink they're just, memory wise, no big deal anymore.

    I've had too many Corsair modules not do what they were advertised to do, so my continuance with Corsair is over!

    That's kinda sad, because system memory was what put Corsair on the map in the first place!

    G-Skill however has kept their concentration on their memory and it's quality and performance is the best testimony to that, to be able to run a 5ghz i7-3770K overclock with the memory running at 2400mhz is the biggest stamp of approval I can give G-Skill!

    You get what you pay for!

    I guess my curiosity is really to ask, do you really need 32gb of memory?, what are you doing with your computer that needs that much memory?

    Is it because you have 4 slots to fill and your motherboard can support that much?

    Gaming doesn't, at least none of the games I play do, so what application is going to need 32gb of system memory cause maybe I need to investigate that application for myself?

    Now as an owner of a matched 4 x 8g 32gb set of memory, I ran my own tests at how much memory was actually being used verses what was sitting there Idle and never used.

    So after the 32gb discoveries I dropped down to 2 x 8g 16gb and ran tests again????

    So now I'm running 2 x 4g 8gb and still not using all of that!

    Now I am running Win7 64bit Pro, and maybe Win8 uses more IDK?

    But before you spend a chunk of money on a 32gb set of memory, you might ought to test the amount of memory your system is actually using.

    My 2 cents! :)

    By the way QVL does not mean other memory modules won't work with the M/B in question, just the ones listed are the ones they actually tested!

    Have you ever wondered why the QVL doesn't list the modules that absolutely failed to work?

    They'd probably get sued if they did! :)
  14. Wow this is an old thread...

    Ryan you must be younger than me :).... Back in the day (last millenium) , Mushkin would appear in PC Builders ads as it was a big thing. Computer Shopper had dozens of custom builders who, as we today still would name the CPU and Vid card. But what we see today also is "major brand 7200 rpm HD .... 2 x 8G DDRS-1600 (major brand)". Back then when one builder wanted to distinguish themselves from the pack ... you saw "Mushkin RAM" in the parts list. In recent years, more folks are turning to Mushkin again as getting those hi overclocks oft means more DRAM voltage and the Hynix are well capable of 1.9+ . Another thing is there's no longer a price premium to get Mushkin.

    Mushkin was so revered by enthusiasts that when NASA used it in their space program, this was "buzz" in the old Compuserve forums which existed before the "world wide web" . In the late 90s, it was the enthusiasts one and only choice and appeared in almost every "build list" on the CSi forums. When Gskill arrived on the scene, they were considered by enthusiasts as a Walmart brand, much like AsRock in the early days .... they competed on price, not quality. Price was the "hook" for both of them and as time went on (Gskill more quickly than Asrock) they started competing at the higher end. Just as Asrock increased their quality and their warranty from 1 and 2 years to the industry standard 3 years, Gskill started competing in the high end market and now both brands compete with the best of them.

    However, like PSU's, it's not what logo is on them, it's what's inside them. And what's inside Mushkin Redline is Hynix. I can understand your frustration w/ Corsair as they caught me also with a "switcheroo". First set of Corsair 2400's I had (user liked the heat sinks) was Hynix .... few months later when getting a 2nd set for another user, I noticed the timings had changed from 10-12-12-28 to 10-12-12-31 .... thought nothing of it till they arrived and no more Hynix.

    So while these days, I would say any of the top 4 or 5 brands is capable of supplying high quality memory, once the module supplier is chosen, there's little any brand can do to make one product stand out above the other. To my mind, it's either Hynix or it isn't. Unfortunately, while many GFX card reviewers takes off the heat sink and tells us what memory is used, it is extremely rare that a review of memory will contain this information. I had a site that listed this info (very similar to Sin's site on MoBos), but lost the bookmark when I was re-oganizing one day.

    I have watched several RAM lines over time drop their timings down over time. First I noticed the Corsair Vengeance Line drop to 10-12-12-31 but the Dominators stayed at 10-12-12-28 ..... given my previous experience I made the "assumption" (could be wrong) based on my experience with the VPs that Dominator kept the Hynix modules and that accounted for the price difference..... but then few months later, the Dominator's timings also dropped.

    My biggest problem with the Mushkin tho at 2400, is if you don't act fast, they are gone in minutes after they arrive on newegg. Last set I got too a call to the factory and they had one of their suppliers put a set on the side for me. I wish reviewers would look at this when doing their memory roundups .... I pretty much don't care whose logo is on it, not a 'brand loyalty" kinda guy. I'm more of a "hardware whore", build a better product and I'll drop my current fav in a heartbeat. I would have started a thread on OCN on the topic but such efforts in the past have met with a lot of enthusiasm in the beginning.

    I've spent a lot of time figuring out why Corsair dropped Hynix first on the VP's and then on the Dom's. This is pure supposition but what I figured is this..... let me know what you think. Market demand indicate how much of what speed the various sellers want.... like PSU manufacturer's to sell the most stuff and make the most money, most jump into all niches from budget buyers to enthusiasts. In early production runs, when DDR3 was relatively new, yields on the higher speed stuff is low.... so to fill demand, using a higher quality module may be the only means to secure an adequate amount of say DDR3-2400.

    But when ya get to the point where yields improve, you now have access to more 2400 than you have demand for and are paying a premium for it. So "capitalism" dictates that you switch to a lower cost supplier. Now what can Hynix do if they have more than they can sell ? My guess is they drop their prices and that's how Mushkin has been able to eliminate their cost premium. All supposition but it's the best explanation I have heard so far.

    Mushkin, Gskill, Corsair, Kingston, Geil, Patriot, Crucial ..... I'd buy RAM from any one of them if I knew what was inside was what I wanted (Hynix).
  15. Good points Jack!

    And I really did not catch this was a resurrected thread. :lol:
  16. It got picked up by the person b4 you.

    His comment got lost in the quote tho

    Quote:
    I looked at it too, and I noticed that my G.SKILL isn't listed, which may be one of the reasons I can't get an XMP profile to work. G.SKILL has given me an RMA number to exchange my memory, but they won't send me the other RAM first, which means my right will be down until I get the replacement memory.


    To which I'd add.... give them a credit card number....they will ship the new stuff out, then you can return the old in same packaging. That will let ya know how much money even newgg makes on RAM .... (about 22%) .... at least thatz what I was charged $155 when I had a pair of 2400 Mushkins replaced when they were $189.99 on newegg
  17. Would have to check but GSkill predates both Mushkin and Corsair, they were around in 90 I'm sure of, was with the Park Service then, Mushkin and Corsair think were like 94, which is after CERN opened the WEB to the world.
  18. I don't recall ever seeing them in Computer shopper in the 1990s..... kept one for nostalgia and just looked, didn't find any.... looked on wiki .... I thot it was earlier than that tho.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G.Skill

    Based in Taiwan, the G.Skill corporation was established in 1989 by a group of computer enthusiasts. In 2003, the company debuted as a maker of computer memory. The company currently operates through several distributors and resellers in North America, Europe, Asia, and the Middle East.
  19. Thanx, knew they were around back around there, was just pointing out they predated both Corsair and Mushkin
  20. In the context of the topic (Memory) however, I think the 2003 date is the relevant date.
  21. Just pointing out they were around prior, and too many 'enthusiasts' back then...They didn't 'come later', and all this was after the web was around awhile, not before.
  22. 4Ryan6 said:
    My preference is definitely the G-Skill Trident, IMO Muskin was always just mainstream memory until lately anyway, extremely high overclockers avoided it.

    I do remember back when Corsair was the King and that was when they were 100% concentrating on their memory quality and making it better and better, but now they've branched into selling everything but the kitchen sink they're just, memory wise, no big deal anymore.

    I've had too many Corsair modules not do what they were advertised to do, so my continuance with Corsair is over!

    That's kinda sad, because system memory was what put Corsair on the map in the first place!

    G-Skill however has kept their concentration on their memory and it's quality and performance is the best testimony to that, to be able to run a 5ghz i7-3770K overclock with the memory running at 2400mhz is the biggest stamp of approval I can give G-Skill!

    You get what you pay for!

    I guess my curiosity is really to ask, do you really need 32gb of memory?, what are you doing with your computer that needs that much memory?

    Is it because you have 4 slots to fill and your motherboard can support that much?

    Gaming doesn't, at least none of the games I play do, so what application is going to need 32gb of system memory cause maybe I need to investigate that application for myself?

    Now as an owner of a matched 4 x 8g 32gb set of memory, I ran my own tests at how much memory was actually being used verses what was sitting there Idle and never used.

    So after the 32gb discoveries I dropped down to 2 x 8g 16gb and ran tests again????

    So now I'm running 2 x 4g 8gb and still not using all of that!

    Now I am running Win7 64bit Pro, and maybe Win8 uses more IDK?

    But before you spend a chunk of money on a 32gb set of memory, you might ought to test the amount of memory your system is actually using.

    My 2 cents! :)

    By the way QVL does not mean other memory modules won't work with the M/B in question, just the ones listed are the ones they actually tested!

    Have you ever wondered why the QVL doesn't list the modules that absolutely failed to work?

    They'd probably get sued if they did! :)



    Well, if he's running an Asus MB, he could uduse RAM Disk to allocate a portion of his memory as a drive, which he could run apps from about 20 times faster than any hard drive.
  23. Quote:
    Just pointing out they were around prior,


    Sony was was selling transistor radios in 1955 but does that make the a 60 year player in the laptop market ?

    Quote:
    and [not] too many 'enthusiasts' back then...They didn't 'come later', and all this was after the web was around awhile, not before.


    I realize this is a bit new for you having joined THG relatively recently but there was a vibrant on line enthusiast community loooong before even THG existed. Let's take a stroll down memory lane. Tom started THG in 1996.... 7 years before Gskill started selling memory. If all this "didn't come till later" , what do you think Toms Hardware Guide was about those 7 years before GSkill got into the memory business ? or even what prompted Tom to create the web site if there was no audience ? Tom opened his testing lab is 1999 ... I remember reading about it and the excitement level leading up to it.....what the heck was Tom and crew testing in those 4 years before GSkill memory showed up.

    There was a vibrant on line community long before even the world wide web existed. I have been following THG since its infancy and started participating in the THG forums I'd guess about 10 years ago. Before that, I had joined Compuserve in 1989 and began managing a Time Warner CSI Forum as Wizop around 1992-93. During that time, I also joined / sysoped on several WUGNET Hardware / Software Forums (WUGNET Started up in 1988) and continued well past the new millenium. In the beginning we had to stick our phones in a cradle to log on at 2400 baud and I remember it was a big thing to go to 5,600 baud..... 14400, 19200 and 56k followed with us jumping for joy over the years. We all used off-line readers (TAPCIS) to handle e-mails, forum posts and forum management as to stay online and type an answer was waaaay cost prohibitive. I think I still have the TAPCIS software box on a shelf somewhere.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CompuServe

    Quote:
    In the early 1990s, CompuServe was enormously popular, with hundreds of thousands of users visiting its thousands of moderated Forums, forerunners to the endless variety of discussion sites on the Web today. (Like the Web, many Forums were managed by independent producers who then administered the Forum and recruited moderators, called "sysops".) Among these were many in which hardware and software companies offered customer support. This broadened the audience from primarily business users to the technical "geek" crowd, some of which migrated over from the Byte Magazine's Bix online service.


    So yes, there were hundreds of thousands of us happily discussing PCs, hardware and software online long before the web existed. It was also our primary means of tech support. I was building AutoCAD boxes in the early 1990s and started augmenting and modifying others boxes in 1993. Much of my time on the forums back then was related to creating customized autoexec.bat and config.sys files w/ menu structures. On our CAD boxes, we had 6 different sets of config.sys / autoexec.bat data whereby your boot choice among the 6 was determined by what you were planning on doing. The two DOS boots were for AutoCAD which didn't run in Windows in those days. Helix software, one of the memory manager software vendors that we were a beta test site for, figured prominently in that menu as it was used to break the 640k memory limit necessary to get any significant production out of AutoCAD. Was also kinda nice that when gaming broke, those same menus were handy playing games like The 7th Guest which was the "Crysis" of the day. While the game was acclaimed for its graphics and puzzles, it was hammered for it's demanding system requirements . The game is widely credited for being a "killer app" thereby spurring the sales of CD-ROMS and serving as wellspring for computer enthusiast gaming.

    I remember moving in 1993 and my mailman saying "glad to see you go....now if only all you other nerds would move off my route, I could stop lugging around these 5 pound Computer Shopper Magazines every month... "

    "Computer Shopper" started in 1979 and it's delivery was anxiously awaited each and every month.

    Quote:
    Continuously published for 30 years, Computer Shopper magazine was established in 1979 in Titusville, Florida. It began as a tabloid-size publication on yellow newsprint that primarily contained classified advertising and ads for computers (then largely kit-built, hobbyist systems), parts, and software. .....In August 1984, the first perfect-bound issue of Computer Shopper debuted (at 350 pages), and the phone-book-size magazine regularly topped the 800-page mark during the early 1990s.


    800 Tabloid sized pages !!! .... with a few articles and the rest all classified ads .... if "all this didn't come till later", what were all these ads for ? Why did this magazine exist; who were its subscribers ? Back then there was no newegg, that was "post millenium" .... There where maybe 200 pages of computer builder ads like Comtrade and such who custom built puters to your specs, but the other 500 pages was component ads. We followed their tech authors like Bill O'Brien (Thinking of his Lab of Doom still cracks me up) and Alice Hill from the early 1990s and regularly exchanges mail with them as well as others .

    Here's a sampling of Hard Edge column and partial index from Computer Shopper.
    http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1G1-14026561.html

    Quote:

    THE HARD EDGE - 521
    BUILDING THE PERFECT BEAST - 26

    And while Alice and Bill may hope wildly for a year of Pentium power and a roomful of wonderful gadgetry that instantly eclipses the generation before it, they also have to remember the accompanying trail of burnt-out video boards, power and supplies that won't power up, and that horrible moment last fall when things worked perfectly for a day or two and then, mysteriously, stopped dead.....

    Bill has been working non-stop with a Diamond SuperBus motherboard for the last two months and has found that it does some interesting things. The board is a hacker's delight in many ways.

    First, it's an upgradable motherboard that Bill has pegged at its limit with the i486DX2/66. Diamond actually defaults the CPU speed for this chip to 68MHz so you get a slight up-kick in processing speed right off the bat. Technically, going beyond the designed operating speed of the CPU has a tendency to null and void any warranty offered by its manufacturer. But if you're thinking that a measly 2MHz won't make much of a difference, hold onto your hand warmers.


    What kind of "beast" do you think they were talking about building way back "before the web was around a while" .... in August of 1993 ..... burnt out video boards, power supplies, overclocking ?

    The enthusiast on line community certainly was well established long before early 1990s when I jumped in so I could increase CAD productivity. The fact that a great CAD system was also a great gaming system was a huge bonus. The only difference then and today is that there are a lot more young folk involved ... was mostly late 20's early 30s age groups back then .... was much more expensive, I'd typically spend $6k on parts for a decent CAD box ....I remember thinking I'd never fill that $1,000 (1 GB) SCSI HD I added to a year old build or if I'd ever need that $850 SCSI tape drive system I installed a few months later (I did) .... I still have a $2,200 1600 x 1200 monitor that I bought in the 1990s and the discussion w/ da wife as to why we needed something "THAT BIG" to do CAD. That effectively priced the youngins outta the picture in the beginning but that was soon to change.

    Companies like Diamond, ProAudioSpectrum, Mushkin, Micon, Nanao, 3 Com were like superstars cause they brought us things that seriously "cranked it up a bit". The Diamond Viper shocked the community with its whopping 2 MB of VRAM... Micron woke things up with it's EDO RAM (A friend I had tipped off after reading an article on that in Computer Shopper made 80 grand purchasing Micron stock.... Mushkin was the geek's equivalent of having a 4 barrel Holley carburator on your GTO.

    All of this happened before the world wide web and there were hundreds of thousands if us there to witness it.
  24. You stated

    "Mushkin was so revered by enthusiasts that when NASA used it in their space program, this was "buzz" in the old Compuserve forums which existed before the "world wide web"

    Simply put the web was there and available before Mushkin existed.

    Also, I simply pointed out that GSkill was around long before Mushkin, yes it was started by a group of enthusiasts, and I stated there were too many 'enthusiasts' - which you changed to" 'not' to many", which you are are prone to do, taking things out of context, changing them to what you want.

    You made it sound as if G.Skill originated much later, which you corrected to show them becoming a memory manufacture in 2003, after it was pointed out they predated Mushkin.
  25. JackNaylorPE said:
    Quote:
    Just pointing out they were around prior,


    Sony was was selling transistor radios in 1955 but does that make the a 60 year player in the laptop market ?

    Quote:
    and [not] too many 'enthusiasts' back then...They didn't 'come later', and all this was after the web was around awhile, not before.


    I realize this is a bit new for you having joined THG relatively recently but there was a vibrant on line enthusiast community loooong before even THG existed. Let's take a stroll down memory lane. Tom started THG in 1996.... 7 years before Gskill started selling memory. If all this "didn't come till later" , what do you think Toms Hardware Guide was about those 7 years before GSkill got into the memory business ? or even what prompted Tom to create the web site if there was no audience ? Tom opened his testing lab is 1999 ... I remember reading about it and the excitement level leading up to it.....what the heck was Tom and crew testing in those 4 years before GSkill memory showed up.

    There was a vibrant on line community long before even the world wide web existed. I have been following THG since its infancy and started participating in the THG forums I'd guess about 10 years ago. Before that, I had joined Compuserve in 1989 and began managing a Time Warner CSI Forum as Wizop around 1992-93. During that time, I also joined / sysoped on several WUGNET Hardware / Software Forums (WUGNET Started up in 1988) and continued well past the new millenium. In the beginning we had to stick our phones in a cradle to log on at 2400 baud and I remember it was a big thing to go to 5,600 baud..... 14400, 19200 and 56k followed with us jumping for joy over the years. We all used off-line readers (TAPCIS) to handle e-mails, forum posts and forum management as to stay online and type an answer was waaaay cost prohibitive. I think I still have the TAPCIS software box on a shelf somewhere.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CompuServe

    Quote:
    In the early 1990s, CompuServe was enormously popular, with hundreds of thousands of users visiting its thousands of moderated Forums, forerunners to the endless variety of discussion sites on the Web today. (Like the Web, many Forums were managed by independent producers who then administered the Forum and recruited moderators, called "sysops".) Among these were many in which hardware and software companies offered customer support. This broadened the audience from primarily business users to the technical "geek" crowd, some of which migrated over from the Byte Magazine's Bix online service.


    So yes, there were hundreds of thousands of us happily discussing PCs, hardware and software online long before the web existed. It was also our primary means of tech support. I was building AutoCAD boxes in the early 1990s and started augmenting and modifying others boxes in 1993. Much of my time on the forums back then was related to creating customized autoexec.bat and config.sys files w/ menu structures. On our CAD boxes, we had 6 different sets of config.sys / autoexec.bat data whereby your boot choice among the 6 was determined by what you were planning on doing. The two DOS boots were for AutoCAD which didn't run in Windows in those days. Helix software, one of the memory manager software vendors that we were a beta test site for, figured prominently in that menu as it was used to break the 640k memory limit necessary to get any significant production out of AutoCAD. Was also kinda nice that when gaming broke, those same menus were handy playing games like The 7th Guest which was the "Crysis" of the day. While the game was acclaimed for its graphics and puzzles, it was hammered for it's demanding system requirements . The game is widely credited for being a "killer app" thereby spurring the sales of CD-ROMS and serving as wellspring for computer enthusiast gaming.

    I remember moving in 1993 and my mailman saying "glad to see you go....now if only all you other nerds would move off my route, I could stop lugging around these 5 pound Computer Shopper Magazines every month... "

    "Computer Shopper" started in 1979 and it's delivery was anxiously awaited each and every month.

    Quote:
    Continuously published for 30 years, Computer Shopper magazine was established in 1979 in Titusville, Florida. It began as a tabloid-size publication on yellow newsprint that primarily contained classified advertising and ads for computers (then largely kit-built, hobbyist systems), parts, and software. .....In August 1984, the first perfect-bound issue of Computer Shopper debuted (at 350 pages), and the phone-book-size magazine regularly topped the 800-page mark during the early 1990s.


    800 Tabloid sized pages !!! .... with a few articles and the rest all classified ads .... if "all this didn't come till later", what were all these ads for ? Why did this magazine exist; who were its subscribers ? Back then there was no newegg, that was "post millenium" .... There where maybe 200 pages of computer builder ads like Comtrade and such who custom built puters to your specs, but the other 500 pages was component ads. We followed their tech authors like Bill O'Brien (Thinking of his Lab of Doom still cracks me up) and Alice Hill from the early 1990s and regularly exchanges mail with them as well as others .

    Here's a sampling of Hard Edge column and partial index from Computer Shopper.
    http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1G1-14026561.html

    Quote:

    THE HARD EDGE - 521
    BUILDING THE PERFECT BEAST - 26

    And while Alice and Bill may hope wildly for a year of Pentium power and a roomful of wonderful gadgetry that instantly eclipses the generation before it, they also have to remember the accompanying trail of burnt-out video boards, power and supplies that won't power up, and that horrible moment last fall when things worked perfectly for a day or two and then, mysteriously, stopped dead.....

    Bill has been working non-stop with a Diamond SuperBus motherboard for the last two months and has found that it does some interesting things. The board is a hacker's delight in many ways.

    First, it's an upgradable motherboard that Bill has pegged at its limit with the i486DX2/66. Diamond actually defaults the CPU speed for this chip to 68MHz so you get a slight up-kick in processing speed right off the bat. Technically, going beyond the designed operating speed of the CPU has a tendency to null and void any warranty offered by its manufacturer. But if you're thinking that a measly 2MHz won't make much of a difference, hold onto your hand warmers.


    What kind of "beast" do you think they were talking about building way back "before the web was around a while" .... in August of 1993 ..... burnt out video boards, power supplies, overclocking ?

    The enthusiast on line community certainly was well established long before early 1990s when I jumped in so I could increase CAD productivity. The fact that a great CAD system was also a great gaming system was a huge bonus. The only difference then and today is that there are a lot more young folk involved ... was mostly late 20's early 30s age groups back then .... was much more expensive, I'd typically spend $6k on parts for a decent CAD box ....I remember thinking I'd never fill that $1,000 (1 GB) SCSI HD I added to a year old build or if I'd ever need that $850 SCSI tape drive system I installed a few months later (I did) .... I still have a $2,200 1600 x 1200 monitor that I bought in the 1990s and the discussion w/ da wife as to why we needed something "THAT BIG" to do CAD. That effectively priced the youngins outta the picture in the beginning but that was soon to change.

    Companies like Diamond, ProAudioSpectrum, Mushkin, Micon, Nanao, 3 Com were like superstars cause they brought us things that seriously "cranked it up a bit". The Diamond Viper shocked the community with its whopping 2 MB of VRAM... Micron woke things up with it's EDO RAM (A friend I had tipped off after reading an article on that in Computer Shopper made 80 grand purchasing Micron stock.... Mushkin was the geek's equivalent of having a 4 barrel Holley carburator on your GTO.

    All of this happened before the world wide web and there were hundreds of thousands if us there to witness it.


    I remembers those days. Compuserve was the bomb, much better that Prodigy. Each bulletin board would have its own dial up service and people would pass around phone numbers to other bulletin boards so you could try them out, but Compuserve was probably one of the first that you could login to and access multiple things instead of having a list of phone numbers to connect to. I think back then the 286 was becoming popular, and if you had the money, you could get an IDE drive instead of a gigantic MFM drive, 20MB was awesome. When people could buy 4x256k chips and get 1MB of RAM was unbelievable.

    Also, when the Internet came out, we were still using dial up, but you didn't need to put your phone receiver on top of your modem, you could plug your phone line directly into your 14.4k modem and then plug your phone into the other jack, but if someone tried calling you when you were online, maybe searching through Webcrawler to find something of interest, you would get disconnected from the internet unless you would put in *67 (I think that was it) before you dialed in. This would temporarily disable your call waiting so you could spend your hours typing in different web addresses trying to figure out this World Wide Web.

    I actually started up on of the first porn sites around this time, but I had to shut it down because no one was paying for memberships, and the bandwidth I was using through the company I found who was hosting the site for me was charging me monthly, which included a certain amount of data, but anything over that I would be charged extra. This is when I figured out that memberships isisn't where the money is made, it's advertising. At this time, there was a site called Persian Kitty, and all they had was a list of hyperlinks going to different websites. Their traffic was off the charts and their data use was minimal, since all they did was host a site which brought you to other sites.

    I worked in the computer industry back then, early 90s, and left the industry to go into the field I'm currently in. This was a job I had while I was in college to make ends meet. Just to give you an idea, when I started working in the computer industry, I was making $850mo. When I left the industry in 1997, I had just graduated from college, which took me longer than most, but I started working on commission and got the local computer company I worked for onto the state contract, so I was one of few people in the state, who was local, had local service, and I was bringing in $20,000 a month in commissions. I was 25 years old. Those were incredible times. When I left the industry, people weren't buying monochrome monitors anymore, and the Pentium processor was just released, but you had to buy a co-processor if you wanted to Jack up your rig and it would handle all the mathematical computations itself which anyone running CAD had to have.

    Just thinking about this makes me laugh.
  26. Oh, and on another note, one of the largest distributors of computer equipment at this time was Ingram Micro, which is now Newegg. Tech Data was another, but I'm not sure what happened to them.
  27. JackNaylorPE said:
    I realize this is a bit new for you having joined THG relatively recently but there was a vibrant on line enthusiast community loooong before even THG existed. Let's take a stroll down memory lane. Tom started THG in 1996.... 7 years before Gskill started selling memory. If all this "didn't come till later" , what do you think Toms Hardware Guide was about those 7 years before GSkill got into the memory business ? or even what prompted Tom to create the web site if there was no audience ? Tom opened his testing lab is 1999 ... I remember reading about it and the excitement level leading up to it.....what the heck was Tom and crew testing in those 4 years before GSkill memory showed up.


    I first got interested in Toms in 1999, reading their articles and such as I found the information I was getting from Toms gave me an edge over my local computer repair shop employees that acted like they knew everything, it helps going into a shop like that knowing what the hell you're talking about, it seriously cuts their sales pitch.

    Actually I honestly don't remember any memory specific brands back in those days as my first computer overclocking experience involved some no name SIMM ram, and we were happy as hell to get an extra 25mhz off the CPU.

    Jack, You've definitely got a lot of history stuffed in your brain, did you remember all that off the top of your head or look it up?

    I would like to say we all have our own opinions guys and though we may differ from each other at times, and each of us have favored brands we're more comfortable with, we are important to Toms because of our longevity and devotion to what we do and how we do it.

    I have utmost respect for you JackNaylorPE and even though I gave Tradesman1 a rough time when he first got here, I have utmost respect for him as well, because he has really gone above and beyond many at this forum!

    We try to help people here, that's what we do!

    IMO that's all that matters, as Toms is now so full of the instant experts, that we all find ourselves inputting in threads that are full of erroneous information, and I have seen both of you really help others with 100% accurate information.

    And that comes from a solid knowledge foundation!

    The best to you both! Ry
  28. Thanx Ry
  29. Tradesman1 said:
    Thanx Ry


    You deserve recognition for all you do here!

    Thank You Sir! :)
  30. 4Ryan6 said:
    I would like to say we all have our own opinions guys and though we may differ from each other at times, and each of us have favored brands we're more comfortable with, we are important to Toms because of our longevity and devotion to what we do and how we do it.

    I have utmost respect for you JackNaylorPE and even though I gave Tradesman1 a rough time when he first got here, I have utmost respect for him as well, because he has really gone above and beyond many at this forum!


    Not to start a "mutual admiration society" but I too have benefited much from your posts, not have you only provided links to sound tech sources but where information was lacking you rigorously tested and documented your own experiences.

    As for "opinions", what we "like" is oft determined based upon our early experiences. Like rooting for a favored sports team, we usually form this attachment with our fist exposure to a particular team and continue that attachment long into our golden years even tho the the players have changed, the owners have changed and even philosophy has changed.

    I had an employee who had NY Giants season tickets but he didn't like the cold weather ....once November arrived the tickets were mine... I usually brought guests from the same pool of friends and I remember one instance in the 80s where at the introductions, one of my friends stood up and loudly "booed" one particular player, ending with some "colorful insults". I was kinda surprised, and I said to him.... "last year he was your favorite player, now you hate him ? he replied "Of course, he's no longer a NY Giant . My answer was "So we're here rooting for the different color jerseys rather than the athletes on the field ?" To my mind, the quality of the product is the criteria by which we should judge things, not "what jersey it's wearing".

    Just like in sports, adjustments are often made between seasons (or between generations) to help each "team" better compete ... sometimes these moves are cost cutting measures, sometimes they are personnel (or parts) upgrades which change the overall quality of the team (product).

    In a forum such like this debate and discussion are the means to better educate ourselves. I like to say, "no one is ever wrong, one of is is just misinformed." The presentation of accurate, supportable information should always be welcomed.

    However, a statement that the enthusiast community didn't exist until well into this millennium is an affront to all the people involved including Tom Pabst, WUGNET, CNET, CSi, Alice / Bill and all the people and magazines who led the charge and participated along the way, especially when posted right here on THG, one of the very sites that led the 2nd wave.
  31. Jack you said

    "However, a statement that the enthusiast community didn't exist until well into this millennium is an affront to all the people involved including Tom Pabst, WUGNET, CNET, CSi, Alice / Bill and all the people and magazines who led the charge and participated along the way, especially when posted right here on THG, one of the very sites that led the 2nd wave."

    Which I agree with completely - the question is: why did YOU change my statement from there were 'too many' to " 'Not' to many" enthusiasts........My original statement sits in my post as made, this is what I pointed out how you love to twist words, take things out of context and change subjects just so you can simply argue. You've done this with a number of members
  32. Despite being relatively new to this, I am surprised that you are apparently unaware of conventional use of [ ] when quoting a source. Please educate yourself...look it up. The use of the brackets [ ] is the acceptable means of making and edit to a quote for editorial reasons or when the a reader would not be able to make sense of it otherwise

    http://homeworktips.about.com/od/writingrules/qt/brackets.htm

    Quote:
    You may also use brackets to make an editorial statement or clarification within a quote.


    By using the brackets I was quite clearly identifying this as an edit....... 1) Not only is the usage clearly correct and acceptable but 2) contrary to your implication, I very obviously identified it as such using conventionally accepted means..... were you truly unaware of this or is this just another clumsy distortion ?


    Quote:
    and too many 'enthusiasts' back then...They didn't 'come later', and all this was after the web was around awhile, not before.


    That quote is a direct contradiction of itself and directly contradicts your position.

    Let's break it down into its parts

    1. And too many enthusiasts back then
    2. They didn't come to later.
    3. and all this was after the web was around awhile, not before.

    So by your logic under 1 and 2, there were "too many enthusiasts" there but "they didn't come till later".... so please explain how to many of them could be there ..... when they didn't come to later.

    As for 3, that's already been thoroughly debunked.

    Quote:
    You stated

    "Mushkin was so revered by enthusiasts that when NASA used it in their space program, this was "buzz" in the old Compuserve forums which existed before the "world wide web"

    Simply put the web was there and available before Mushkin existed.


    Another exercise in false logic. Let's do another grammar lesson ...uncombine the 2 thoughts in the sentence

    Quote:
    Mushkin was so revered by enthusiasts that when NASA used it in their space program, this was "buzz" in the old Compuserve forums


    Absolutely true and correct statement. I was there.

    Quote:
    Compuserve forums existed before the "world wide web"


    Absolutely true and correct statement, I was there

    The "which" follows "Compuserve Forums" accurately and only conveying that the CSi forums existed before the web. The which does not follow the word "buzz" so there was no implication that the buzz occurred at that time. We'll address that topic in a bit. The CSi forums were still dominant at the time and that is where any "buzz" would have existed. ....web forums were very rare and cumbersome to use.

    We have to also separate "world web web" into its two contexts. And yes, the world wide web existed as an infrastructure and was used by universities and other research organizations ....in the technical sense CSi was on the "world wide web" .....

    Now let's get to the 2nd context, the one which applies here when someone says "its on the web". Here we are not talking about the infrastructure or what Senator Ted Stevens called "a series of tubes" we are talking about content..... and I have to inform you that no .... before 1994 (when Mushkin arrive as a memory maker) there was very little "content" for the public to access and certainly no web forums on which a "buzz" would exist. If you truly do believe that they did, do some research. And while doing so, please tell us what these computer enthusiast were using to access these web forums ? Sorry but Netscape didn't debut until 1994 .... the same year as Mushkin.

    Quote:
    You made it sound as if G.Skill originated much later, which you corrected to show them becoming a memory manufacture in 2003, after it was pointed out they predated Mushkin.


    No, let's not confuse your inferences with what was written....it's still there...in the context of this discussion that being memory, Gskill's existence as a corporation is irrelevant. This is a discussion about memory and comparing brands or memory. Gskills existence as a corporation not making memory is of no more relevance than Sony selling transistor radios in 1955 would be to a discussion about laptops.

    When carrying on a discussion on a specific topic, it is not generally the practice of the participants to have to restate the context in every sentence. Quoting a sentence and ignoring the context is intellectually dishonest. So let me restate .... adding and contextural edits using the conventional [ ]:

    Quote:
    In the late 90s, it [Mushkin memory] was the enthusiasts one and only choice [for memory] and appeared in almost every "build list" [as the memory choice] on the CSi forums. When Gskill arrived on the [memory] scene, they were considered by enthusiasts as a Walmart brand, much like AsRock in the early days [for MoBos] .... they competed on price, not quality..... Price was the "hook" for both of them [Gskil with memory and Asrock with MoBos] and as time went on (Gskill more quickly than Asrock) they started competing at the higher end. Just as Asrock increased their quality and their warranty from 1 and 2 years [on their MoBos] to the industry standard 3 years, Gskill started competing in the high end market [for memory] and now both brands compete with the best of them.


    Since you apparently know so much of Gskill's history, please tell us how much of a "player" GSkil was in the PC components market from 1989 to 2003. Exactly what PC components they were providing to consumers in those early years between filing corporate papers and 1989 and producing their 1st stick of memory 14 years later in 2003 ?
  33. "Mushkin was so revered by enthusiasts that when NASA used it in their space program, this was "buzz" in the old Compuserve forums which existed before the "world wide web"

    Since Mushkin didn't exist till after the web was open to the world - how is this?

    Yes, YOU decided to make an editorial statement and twisted the statement from exactly what it was- a statement.

    " 'Uncombine' the 2 thoughts in the sentence" - it's your sentence - You said it as a single sentence and uncombine isn't a word.

    Once again you simply ignore what is said, you don't ask for any clarification, you Assume, which in itself says tons.

    Your aren't worth it Jack, you do this book writing all to often, and by the way, the AMD financial reports you were telling people you read a couple weeks ago have been released, as you were told they would be, on the 16th.

    http://ir.amd.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=74093&p=irol-calendarpast

    Will there be another chapter to that book also? ;)
  34. Is english and issue ?

    Yet again, asked and answered. I don't understand the logic of repeating questions that have already been answered and thoroughly debunked .... why not just answer the questions put to you that have gone unanswered such as what product you claim GSkill was selling to PC builders in 1989 or just provide a single modicum of factual support for your claims ?

    -Yes the infrastructure for the www existed.

    -No, were no www address that one would go to and create a "buzz" because there was no web browser to even access them let alone create a web forum. If you are arguing otherwise ... name one ! The reason there were "hundreds of thousands" on CSi, cause there was no alternative on the web at that time.

    How is the existence of the world wide web infrastructure used primarily by universities and research corporations an issue in relation to my statement ? The old Compuserve forums did exist and were accessible by computer enthusiasts using CSi software in 1994.... when the "wold wide web" is used in the common vernacular, the connotation is the information contained thereon, not Senator Sevens "tubes".

    Not only was their no established and recognized presence on the web for "hundreds of thousands" of computer enthusiasts to discuss or create a the buzz which is the focus of your argument, the software to access the world wide web (Netscape) didn't even arrive till that very same year. So again in the context of the discussion, how is your statement in any way relevant to where the buzz was ? If you disagree, please tell us where this presence was on the world wide web and what software people were using to access it.. Repeating that the web infrastructure existed is irrelevant, out of context and non-responsive.

    On the editing, yes, again asked and answered, I chose to make an edit, and identified it as such contrary to yet another false implication on your part, because the sentence does not make grammatical or logical sense....still waiting for you explain the "there but not there yet" contradiction.

    Your claims have no factual basis, and the only support provided has been bluster and misdirection.

    Let's go thru Gskils current product line one by one:

    http://www.gskill.com/en/products

    GSkill products:

    Desktop Memory - 1st sold in 2003 ..... 14 years later
    SSD - Is this what you think they were selling in 1989 ?
    Flash Memory - Is this what you think they were selling in 1989 ?

    If you can't name one product that GSkill sold to PC Builders, your argument is wholly without foundation .... What have you established to support your claim that Gskill was a player in the PC Component market in 1989 ? Zilch, nothing, nada. The issue is not when the filed their corporate papers....the issue is when they became on option for PC Builders to purchase components from. That happened in 2003.

    And here we have another blatant and easily refuted false statement. My comments related to the 3rd quarter AMD financial results (which I read on the day after release BTW) were that they were irrelevant. I linked to their stock market prices ....I stated that they dumped their CEOs .... I stressed the difference between stock market value and the "irrelevant" 3rd quarter financials in the context of the discussion. The stock market price plunged from 4.28 on August 20th to 2.61 on October 15th (down 39%). So here we have yet again, another wholly unsupported fabrication that anyone can just read and see is false..but you already knew that or we'd see a quote

    You did the same thing here when I wrote:

    Quote:
    The original question was whether one has "has has good or bad experiences with ASUS GPU's? "


    You responded:

    http://www.tomshardware.com/answers/id-2323395/asus-reliable-company-gpu.html#14358637

    Quote:
    Question "Is ASUS a reliable company for GPU's? " Nothing at all about good or bad experiences - (typical)


    And here's the original post ....clearly incontrovertible proof that your statement is a blatant falsehood.

    Quote:
    I plan on getting the ASUS STRIX GTX970 and was just wondering if everyone has has good or bad experiences with ASUS GPU's?


    There it is in black and white, no excuses, no misdirection, no name calling will change that. You made a statement that is directly contradicted by what's right here on the board for all to see and you are doing it again..... in your own words "typical". As will be the "typical" misdirection response which doesn't answer the questions asked or supports the original claim.
  35. " the software to access the world wide web (Netscape) didn't even arrive till that very same year "

    Thought you were there, Mosaic, the predecessor to Netscape was out in Jan 1993, and rather popular, then too there were already GUIs in use before, primarily Unix based.

    As stated above, responses to you are worthless, as too many have found. You are right all the time, plain and simple... Even when proof positive is laid out, you just change your stance and start anew on a different tangent. Sad.
  36. man you two really need to get a room
  37. Tradesman1 said:
    " the software to access the world wide web (Netscape) didn't even arrive till that very same year "

    Thought you were there, Mosaic, the predecessor to Netscape was out in Jan 1993, and rather popular, then too there were already GUIs in use before, primarily Unix based.

    As stated above, responses to you are worthless, as too many have found. You are right all the time, plain and simple... Even when proof positive is laid out, you just change your stance and start anew on a different tangent. Sad.



    More misdirection, more non responsive answers. A response must be by definition "responsive"....I have stuck with the same questions, you refuse to answer.

    -What products did GSkill sell between 1989 and 2003 ?... you can't answer making the whole premise irrelevant.
    -Where were these vast amount of people, allegedly using Mosaic, going to discuss PC Components ...? Show me a web forum that people were accessing on the web in 1994 .... you can't making the whole premise irrelevant.

    The proof positive is there in black and white .... you said

    "Nothing at all about good or bad experiences" when it was right there in the OP....you can't deny it."

    You quote my reference to buzz on compuserve forums not existing anywhere else where with a completely irrelevant answer about infrastructure....twisting the obvious context into something else, because the in contextural fact can not be contradicted. . Yes, I was there I didn't pick up PC Hardware as 2nd career / hobby just 2 years ago. I used and quickly abandoned Mosaic, I used Netscape to a very minor extent, decent improvement but sorry, simple fact is there was no place to go to discuss hardware with your peers which is why....as I stated.... the action was on CSi ........ There was no web based PC Harware community till sites like THG came along. And there was some time after that till interactive web based forums became populated enough to sustain timely discussions.

    As with the laughable Unix comment ....yea we all know how popular Unix is on the PC Platform....and again undermining your own argument .... who used Unix ? Primarily Tech Corporations and Universities not PC builders.


    .
  38. Jack just read the responses SImply said GSkill predated Mushkin, never a word about products was there....You had made it sound like GSkill just appeared from no where, long after Mushkin

    YOU also said thee was nothing to access the web, Mosaic was there as were other browsers as I mentioned (and said explicitly "primarily Unix based'...nothing was said about going to discuss PC components, it's simply a fact that debunked your assertion their was no software to access the web. This is you again going off on a tangent that doesn't apply.

    Never said a word about UNIX on the PC platform, this is you again twisting things.

    Rather tiresome, and sad.
  39. Pinhedd said:
    man you two really need to get a room


    ROFL :lol: That is exactly what I was thinking!

    Come on guys just let it go.

    Pinhedd, You should consider doing both of them a favor and just close the thread, you know like throwing water on two dogs hung up in the yard. :lol:

    That was bad I'm sorry! :)
  40. More blatant lies, out of context and misdirection. Why not stay on point instead of trying to pick apart imagined flaws in the data presented.

    Your statement was both false and self contradicting statement that

    Quote:
    and [not] too many 'enthusiasts' back then...They didn't 'come later', and all this was after the web was around awhile, not before.


    I pointed out that there certainly was an enthusiast community alive and well on CSi and that the software for directly accessing the web (Netscape) .... the one actually used by a noticeable community of people..... you come back with your big "a-hah moment" pointing out the the infrastructure and Mosaic existed before Netscape w/o having the knowledge to recognize the common history of the two or the fact that it was on Unix and the Windows port didn't come till much later....

    Quote:
    Version 1.0 (NCSA Mosaic for X 2.0) was released on November 11, 1993.[16] A port of Mosaic to the Commodore Amiga was available by October 1993. Ports to Windows and Macintosh had already been released in September.......]The company's first product was the web browser, called Mosaic Netscape 0.9, released on October 13, 1994.


    Quote:
    The Unix version of Mosaic was already making it famous before the Windows and Mac versions came out.

    By November 1992, there were 26 websites in the world


    The issue was whether or not there were places to go "on the web" and discuss PC building. In support of that, I noted that Nestape didn't arrive till 1994 ....Mosaic for Windows didn't arrive till 3 months before.

    So the twisting but it's all yours.... ya can't point to Mosaic "existing" as an alternative to CSi in a time period when the only version available was Unix. So the windows software port comes out ..... (not yet a real releases as evidenced by the version being < 1) and yet your claim is that there was a substantial community established in 3 months ? Where ?

    Quote:
    and [not] too many 'enthusiasts' back then...They didn't 'come later', and all this was after the web was around awhile, not before.


    First you claim that there was no community there, and now you claim that there was this vast enthusiast community .... which is it. ? Gotta work harder on keeping your statements from contradicting one another.

    BTW, just heard back from Gskil.... I was wrong about them not entering the market till 2004..... according to their e-mail, their 1st product didn't arrive till 2005.

    Remember this false statement ?

    Quote:
    Question "Is ASUS a reliable company for GPU's? " Nothing at all about good or bad experiences - (typical)


    Except for the fact that OP said:

    Quote:
    Quote:
    I plan on getting the ASUS STRIX GTX970 and was just wondering if everyone has has good or bad experiences with ASUS GPU's?


    Remember this

    Quote:
    Never said a word about UNIX on the PC platform, this is you again twisting things.


    Context sir, context .... context is PC building and which memory to use for it....my question was what relevance is GUIs on the Unix platform in any way relevant to what one could do in Windows ??

    Quote:
    Thought you were there, Mosaic, the predecessor to Netscape was out in Jan 1993, and rather popular, then too there were already GUIs in use before, primarily Unix based.


    Are you suggesting that PC enthusiasts could have used their Unix machines to access the web and discuss PC building ?

    Remember this ?

    Quote:
    by the way, the AMD financial reports you were telling people you read a couple weeks ago


    Another lie .... I never said that I read them. I pointed out stock prices I called the 3rd quarter results irrelevant.
  41. 4Ryan6 said:

    Come on guys just let it go.


    Ryan.... normally I would but enough is enough,

    You and I have had many experiences over the years where we have disagreed, you have done so in a honest and respectful manner w/o insults and name calling. I have benefited greatly from the exchanges.

    But when a person resorts to name calling and insults and repeatedly contradicts themselves, takes posts out of context, denies every printed source available as being valid, and even follows you around the web checking your profiles, eventually the bullying gets to the point where you just gotta stand up.
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