HTPC Graphics (A10 vs discrete)

bob hays · Sep 15, 2013

Hi everyone, I'm planning to build a low end gaming rig/media server. To make the build power and cost efficient I have decided to either go with an APU (A10-6800k) build, or and i3, with a low end graphics card (probably waiting for new amd ones).

The i3 is more power efficient than the amd but the gpu will take power to. To resolve that I was planning on using Lucid Logix, to turn off the gpu when I don't need it and use integrated graphics. Does anyone have experience with this or some tips/tricks for me? Thanks.

jaguarskx · Sep 16, 2013

I would go with an i3 over the A10-6800k simply because of the lower power consumption. The following chart shows power consumption when encoding a video. I'm not sure if that is something you plan on doing, but at least it provides a point of reference for power consumption.

As can be seen the i3-3225 (IGP) only uses 53w of power compared to the A10-6800k (IGP) result of 120w of power. There is another result for the i3-3225 which has it using 73w while doing the video encoding. Since the video encoding does not involve the GPU the difference of 20w is the GPU idling. In this case it is a Radeon HD 7950 as mentioned in the 2nd page of the review. A less powerful will use less power when idling. The Radeon HD 7750 DDR5 version is a popular and inexpensive mainstream graphics card (as low $65 at Newegg after rebate). It consumes only 5w when idling and peaks at 43w. Additionally, it is much more powerful than the A10-6800k's integrated Radeon HD 8670D.

Source: http://techreport.com/review/24954/amd-a10-6800k-and-a10-6700-richland-apus-reviewed/3

The part of the reason why the A10-6800k consumes more power is that it has 4 cores, the other reason is because of the higher clockspeed. Since encoding video using the H.264 codec can take advantage of all 4 cores, it is no surprise that the A10-6800k consumes more power. I would have been nice if they had a chart which showed how long it took to complete the video encoding. However, the following chart show how much energy (in joules) it took the CPUs to complete the encoding process.

Getting back to the integrated Radeon HD 8670D... while it is currently the most powerful integrated iGPU around (except for the Intel HD 5200; but that is a completely different story) it's performance is pretty pathetic compared to a desktop graphic card. It equals the desktop Radeon HD 6670 DDR3 version graphics card which has 76% the performance of a Radeon HD 6670 DDR5 version. That places it halfway between the Radeon HD 5570 and Radeon HD 5670. The Radeon HD 7750 is basically 2x more powerful than the integrated Radeon HD 8670D.

bob hays · Sep 16, 2013

jaguarskx :

I would go with an i3 over the A10-6800k simply because of the lower power consumption. The following chart shows power consumption when encoding a video. I'm not sure if that is something you plan on doing, but at least it provides a point of reference for power consumption.

As can be seen the i3-3225 (IGP) only uses 53w of power compared to the A10-6800k (IGP) result of 120w of power. There is another result for the i3-3225 which has it using 73w while doing the video encoding. Since the video encoding does not involve the GPU the difference of 20w is the GPU idling. In this case it is a Radeon HD 7950 as mentioned in the 2nd page of the review. A less powerful will use less power when idling. The Radeon HD 7750 DDR5 version is a popular and inexpensive mainstream graphics card (as low $65 at Newegg after rebate). It consumes only 5w when idling and peaks at 43w. Additionally, it is much more powerful than the A10-6800k's integrated Radeon HD 8670D.

Source: http://techreport.com/review/24954/amd-a10-6800k-and-a10-6700-richland-apus-reviewed/3

The part of the reason why the A10-6800k consumes more power is that it has 4 cores, the other reason is because of the higher clockspeed. Since encoding video using the H.264 codec can take advantage of all 4 cores, it is no surprise that the A10-6800k consumes more power. I would have been nice if they had a chart which showed how long it took to complete the video encoding. However, the following chart show how much energy (in joules) it took the CPUs to complete the encoding process.

Getting back to the integrated Radeon HD 8670D... while it is currently the most powerful integrated iGPU around (except for the Intel HD 5200; but that is a completely different story) it's performance is pretty pathetic compared to a desktop graphic card. It equals the desktop Radeon HD 6670 DDR3 version graphics card which has 76% the performance of a Radeon HD 6670 DDR5 version. That places it halfway between the Radeon HD 5570 and Radeon HD 5670. The Radeon HD 7750 is basically 2x more powerful than the integrated Radeon HD 8670D.

Thank you for the info, and I was planning on going with and i3 T version, which has a max tdp of 35 watts to increase the power savings. I was just wondering whether the cost of the dedicated graphics card (i3 and a10 are same price) was worth the power savings. I guess I could justify it with power savings and the fact that with i3 I only need 4gb of ram.

jaguarskx · Sep 16, 2013

That would be entirely dependent on what your gaming expectations are. For a simple HTPC used just for surfing and watching movies the Intel HD 2500 would be fine. But from a gaming perspective you would be very disappointed. The integrated Radeon HD 8670D is disappointing enough. The Intel HD 2500 is even worse.

In general, I do not recommend playing games with the HD 8670D unless your expectations are low and you plan on playing games that have modest graphics requirements. For example, if you wanted to play the Sims 3 at 1600x900 maybe 1920x1080 with the HD 8670D then you should be okay. If you wanted to play Skyrim, then 1600x900 is probably the max resolution I would recommend but you would need to set everything on low; more or less. And I would recommend installing mods that help increase performance for low end systems.

The Radeon HD 7750 offers pretty good gaming performance especially for the price you are paying. Hardcore gamers would scoff at the idea of putting a Radeon HD 7750 in their rig though. Total power consumption of the HD 7750 + whichever model Core i3 you plan on getting will be lower than the A10-6800k. Will take power cost saving difference outweigh the cost of the graphics card? No, not unless you intend on keeping the rig for a very long time, I'm talking about more than 7 years assuming "average" usage and paying around the national average for electricity which is probably $0.11 per KWH. However, you will get better gaming performance with a Radeon HD 7750.

bob hays · Sep 16, 2013

jaguarskx :

That would be entirely dependent on what your gaming expectations are. For a simple HTPC used just for surfing and watching movies the Intel HD 2500 would be fine. But from a gaming perspective you would be very disappointed. The integrated Radeon HD 8670D is disappointing enough. The Intel HD 2500 is even worse.

In general, I do not recommend playing games with the HD 8670D unless your expectations are low and you plan on playing games that have modest graphics requirements. For example, if you wanted to play the Sims 3 at 1600x900 maybe 1920x1080 with the HD 8670D then you should be okay. If you wanted to play Skyrim, then 1600x900 is probably the max resolution I would recommend but you would need to set everything on low; more or less. And I would recommend installing mods that help increase performance for low end systems.

The Radeon HD 7750 offers pretty good gaming performance especially for the price you are paying. Hardcore gamers would scoff at the idea of putting a Radeon HD 7750 in their rig though. Total power consumption of the HD 7750 + whichever model Core i3 you plan on getting will be lower than the A10-6800k. Will take power cost saving difference outweigh the cost of the graphics card? No, not unless you intend on keeping the rig for a very long time, I'm talking about more than 7 years assuming "average" usage and paying around the national average for electricity which is probably $0.11 per KWH. However, you will get better gaming performance with a Radeon HD 7750.

THANK YOU!!!

this whole time I was debating whether to spend money for a dedicated gpu or go with an apu. I am fine with 720p med settings, but I didn't think about future playability. I don't want to build another computer next year to get a gaming experience. Im gonna go with an i3 T version and 7850, or one of the newer amd cards.

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