First time builder: how is this build ?

Oleonius · Sep 16, 2013

Hi,

I want to do my first custom gaming PC in the near future and after checking reviews, forums and topics, here is a first pitch of what I would buy with a 2000$ budget. How is the build ? I want your comments and feedbacks !

Case: Corsair Vengeance C70 Black w/ 3x Corsair AF120 Quiet Edition fans

http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811139013

http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835181020

CPU: Intel Core i5 4670K Haswell 3.4 GHz

http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819116899

Cooler: Corsair Hydro H100i w/ 2x Corsair SP120 Quiet Edition fans

http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835181032

http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835181042

MB: Gigabyte Z87X-UD3H

http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128592

GPU: EVGA GTX 780 Superclocked

http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130917

PSU: Seasonic G Series 650W GOLD

http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817151118

HDD: Seagate Barracuda 2 TB

http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822148910

SSD: Samsung 840 EVO 120 GB

http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820147247

Memory: Corsair Vengeance 8 GB @ 1600 MHz

http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820233144

kirilmatthew · Sep 16, 2013

Check this out: http://pcpartpicker.com/user/kirilmatt/saved/2gsL
Adding a 3rd 7970 is CF is supposed to greatly reduce frame latencies and help with frame pacing. the i7 and SSD are optional if you want to save money. If you don't want to go AMD, go with a pair of GTX 770s. Hope this helps!

TheBigTroll · Sep 16, 2013

done right
http://ca.pcpartpicker.com/p/1EEj5

-way better case for much cheaper. no awful case temps and much less noise. extra fans are not needed to useless
-if you want liquid, get properly made and legit parts like the h220. push pull is useless as well. if you really want to improve performance (tops 3 degrees), get 2 noctua NF-F12s and put them on the h220. look like crap (painting destroys the fans) but are the best performers and pretty much the only legitmate option for extra fans
-the d3h is the same thing with less sata ports that you dont need
-no benefit of a gold psu. Canadian hydro is cheap and you would need to run your rig for 8 years before you even see any benefit
-bigger and better SSD. you wont tell the difference between them anyways
-cheaper ram
-used a 7970. not as high performance but then its well under half the price. cant beat the value

do not buy from newegg in canada. best way to get scammed big time. price match the stuff at ncix and other stores such as directcanada and amazon will have free shipping. if you live in markham, you missed out on a seriously great sale on saturday. if you live in vancouver or toronto, you can purchase this stuff instore and get the sales reps to give you a nice discount

TheBigTroll · Sep 16, 2013

tri-fire is stupid or anything above 2 video cards simultaneously. on both sides, everything scales like crap and you are basically wasting your time and effort. the fact that haswell barely supplies enough lanes to get it running makes it a stupid choice. the first 2 cards at pci-e 3.0 8x might be fine, but then you have a third card that is running off a pci-e 2.0 4x slot which effectively chokes it

cant fathom how someone would recommend that

Oleonius · Sep 16, 2013

iNova :

Are you talking about my system or the one proposed by BigTroll ?

iNova · Sep 16, 2013

Oleonius :

Yours. Outperforms TheBigTroll's build by ALOT.

iNova · Sep 16, 2013

TheBigTroll's build is a build suggested by an AMD Fanboy, or a person that knows nothing about Computers. If you have the money for a 780. Then go for it. No point in saving money if you have all the perfect parts.

TheBigTroll · Sep 16, 2013

iNova :

-when you are talking about outperformed, you are talking above 72 fps vs 76 fps both of which are more than playable and differences being minimal. and no, a 760 does not outperform a 7970. if it did, why do i not see you recommending it
-bs. push pull might be useful if you had a 60mm or a 80mm rad, but you are talking about a paper thin 20mm radiator. there is no practical difference between regular 2 fan or 4 fan operation with these radiators. for the difference in price, you may as well get a proper loop
-why wouldnt i recommend it over a h100i? it has a properly built copper radiator vs a cheapo aluminum one, it has a properly built 6w pump vs a weaksauce 1.2w pump, it has a much higher quality and denser cold plate vs a cheaper block, and the fact that you can open it up and expand it or maintain it makes it a no brainer. If it wasnt better than your asetek or coolit junk, i would be surprised by the fact that asetek sued swiftech for patent infringment when swiftech developed their block and pump assembly completely by themselves
-of course there is a difference. but the keyword is in BENCHMARKS. it wouldnt even come close to mattering in real life when all the tasks you do are under queue depths of 4 and never in the extreme cases. if i gave you a blind test of a mainstream SSD vs a high end SSD on the same hardware, you would never be able to tell the difference.

JackNaylorPE · Sep 16, 2013

Now and again a motherboard appears that is so obviously brilliant, and so affordable, that we wonder if anything will be able to top it. For a while that crown was held by the ASUS Sabertooth, both in X58 and then P67 variants. Then MSI stole the crown with the Z77 MPower. Looking at the Z87 GD65 Gaming we think it's going to take something extraordinary to top it, such is the perfect storm of price, performance, features and looks.

The switch to Military Class 4 has given us an extremely ready overclocker too. You're always thermally limited when overclocking and the i7-4770K is one of the most demanding around. Considering the amount of cooling we're using we think that although the GD65 is capable of bringing 5GHz from our i7-4770K you'd need a proper water loop to make the most of it.

Performance is outstanding. The stock results were a particular highlight. We know a lot of people still just like to put their CPU in and go, without overclocking it first. Despite how easy it is these days we know that the fear factor still exists. So you'll be glad to know that the MSI Z87 GD65 Gaming really rocks hard even at stock settings. Naturally the overclocking is blistering too, with some OC3D records broken.

MSI have laid the gauntlet down to all the other manufacturers. Gorgeous to look at, blistering performance and all at a very affordable price, the MSI Z87 GD65 Gaming is not only the new benchmark for Z87 motherboards, but probably for all motherboards.

GFX - Twin 770s toast the 780.... MSI version is tied for fastest factory OC's card @ $400 ish price tag

Phanteks Cooler (51C) - beats H100 thermally when using stock fans and same thermal paste (52.5C) and 1/4 as loud

http://www.vortez.net/articles_pages/corsair_h100_hydro_series_extreme_performance_liquid_cpu_cooler,13.html

Listen here (skip to 2:00 minute mark):

http://martinsliquidlab.org/2013/01/27/swiftech-h220-prefilled-2x120mm-water-cooling-kit/

Doing CF x 2 is pretty daring given state of 13.10 beta drivers....(Im thinking next version they'll nail it down) doing 3 x CF is would be insane. That's been a no-no for the last 5 years and nothing's changed.

760 vs 770 vs 780 in 1-way 2-way and 3-way configs
Start here:
http://uk.hardware.info/reviews/4632/6/geforce-gtx-700-series-sli-review-geforce-gtx-760770780-in-sli-and-3-way-sli-battlefield-3---1920x1080-+-frametimes

kirilmatthew · Sep 17, 2013

Tri-fire is not always stupid. What you say though I'd true: a third card only scales at around 20%. What's its been shown to do though is massively reduce microstutter. Just change the 7970s for 770s though, I honestly don't know why I but the 7970s and I admit its probably not a good buy at this point.

TheBigTroll · Sep 17, 2013

it doesnt reduce microstutter. more GPUs just mean more latency and it always is true. the recent driver fix from amd reduced the latency to an acceptable level so i see no reason not do to 2 way for the price

i dont see any reason not to get a 7970 nowadays. its dirt cheap, it performs well and overclocks well (770s dont overclock a ton even though they have a slightly higher voltage allowance), and comes with free games at the same time. if the 7970 was this cheap when i bought my 670, i would have defintely picked it up

kirilmatthew · Sep 17, 2013

TheBigTroll :

Yes it does. Its been shown to reduce microstutter when you use more then 2 cards. I don't agree with 2 way CF if you can afford 770s. The 7990 is probably a better option anyways.

TheBigTroll · Sep 17, 2013

do you have any evidence regarding the fact about how 3way reduces stuttering?

you essentially pay 200 extra dollars by going with a 770 SLI but only gaining 25% ish of a performance gain after factoring overclocking and everything. and even then, you probably wont notice the difference given how high the frames are already going to be.

the 7990 is the worst choice possible. coil whine is highly noticeable and there is no practcal overclocking room due to the 2x8 pin configuration not supplying enough power

kirilmatthew · Sep 17, 2013

TheBigTroll :

The only really benchmarks come from radeon 6xxx midrange GPUs: http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/radeon-geforce-stutter-crossfire,2995-6.html
It did greatly improve microstutter. As for your point about the 7990, coil while was a problem in a couplw reviews, but this was a design issue. I would assume different manufacturers would use different designs. As for OCing, you are correct but the value of the 7990 is better then two 7970s.

TheBigTroll · Sep 17, 2013

that is 2 years ago. GPU architecture is completely different and the drivers and games are also completely different. the argument is almost completely invalid.

2 7970s are cheaper than a 7990 while capable of overclocking and running at a quieter setting and lower temps

kirilmatthew · Sep 17, 2013

TheBigTroll :

If anything, drivers and architectures are better optimized for CF. All over forums, people claim the tri-fire improves microstutter. This is not just with old cards, but with the 7970. Yes, two 7970s are a bit cheaper($560vs$600) and OC a bit better. However power consumption and temps favor the 7990. It is also bundled with more games.

TheBigTroll · Sep 17, 2013

please provide me with a proper benchmark example on how tri fire suddenly allows for better frame latency, because i can tell you that you wouldnt be able to tell the difference between 2 cards and 3 cards in terms of latency in real life. a generic blind eye test doesnt cut it

temps do not favor the 7990. you have a much smaller area for dissipation and much more heat generated on a single board. it will evdiently run hotter. we are not comparing stock cards vs stock cards. all 7970s out there run aftermarket coolers and they run at least 10c cooler than the stock blower

kirilmatthew · Sep 17, 2013

TheBigTroll :

I have already told you that their are no benchmarks other then that one. However many people who have these configs say that it helps. Your assumption is that the 7990s use stock coolers. How do you know this is correct? It also uses less power and generates less heat on one chipset. Take for example SoCs. Everything is on one chip which permits them to save more power and have to dissipate less heat.

JackNaylorPE · Sep 17, 2013

TheBigTroll :

Who published that 25 %

http://uk.hardware.info/reviews/4632/34/geforce-gtx-700-series-sli-review-geforce-gtx-760770780-in-sli-and-3-way-sli-geforce-gtx-770---scaling

At 1920 x 1080 highest settings ....scaling on the 770s ranges to 98% (Metro 2033) .... 81% on Skyrim ....86% on BF3 .....Crysis 2 119%

Overclocked 770s scale the same way.

kirilmatthew · Sep 17, 2013

JackNaylorPE :

TheBigTroll :

Who published that 25 %

http://uk.hardware.info/reviews/4632/34/geforce-gtx-700-series-sli-review-geforce-gtx-760770780-in-sli-and-3-way-sli-geforce-gtx-770---scaling

At 1920 x 1080 highest settings ....scaling on the 770s ranges to 98% (Metro 2033) .... 81% on Skyrim ....86% on BF3 .....Crysis 2 119%

Overclocked 770s scale the same way.

What he meant was the 770SLI is only 25% better then the 7970 CF

TheBigTroll · Sep 17, 2013

i was talking about the 770 SLI vs a 7970 CF. scaling within CF and SLI are around the 80-90 ish % region on average.

JackNaylorPE · Sep 17, 2013

yes.... but it's gotta be said:

1. CF, even with 13.10 still has issues....I'm hoping 13.12 nails it bit fps is suffering
2. Game support on CF still lags far behind.

http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/NVIDIA/GeForce_GTX_650_Ti_Boost_SLI/23.html

Unlike AMD, NVIDIA does a good job of maintaining its SLI profiles, so you should be able to play new games without a long wait for multi-GPU support.

TheBigTroll · Sep 17, 2013

the issues are much less than before and are actually decent. it will never reach nvidia levels as nvidia has the frame latency thing on hardware

JackNaylorPE · Sep 17, 2013

I agree....fps is taking a smaller hit with the new drivers than I would have expected.....now how to we interpret reviews.... frame pacing on fps or frame pacing off fps ?

First time builder: how is this build ?

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