Why is my i5 struggling with games?

JimmyB23 · Sep 23, 2013

I'm not sure exactly what the problem is but I have Batman Arkham City and Battlefield 3 on my PC, I have the i5 3470 CPU, and the Sapphire 7850 2GB GPU.

Why is my framerate (not even 1920x1080p) below 5 almost constantly (regularly goes below 1) on both games... On the lowest graphic settings and no anti aliasing!?

And according to the task manager my CPU is 100% although it is meant to handle both of these games on at least medium settings!

I installed Batman a few days ago and that seemed to run smoothly and i managed to play for a couple of hours with no issues. I then installed BF3 and again, managed to play for an hour or so with it being a little bit jumpy but now its completely unplayable on both games... MOST ANNOYING!!

I just downloaded latest GPU drivers from AMD and still no difference.

Any ideas?

rgd1101 · Sep 23, 2013

the games is using 100% of CPU? or something else?

BSim500 · Sep 23, 2013

That doesn't sound right at all. What are your temps like? Try it with HWMonitor running in the background and see if CPU / GPU is overheating & throttling (CPU heatsink not attached properly)?

If that's OK, then try and do a common benchmark like Cinebench and post your result. If that's OK, (and if it only happens in games), maybe you have a faulty GPU / check your GPU temps / heatsink is attached?

Quarkzquarkz · Sep 23, 2013

1) Probably need Memory upgrade.
2) Some program or malware is gobbling up CPU usage.
3) Run anti-virus or Microsoft Essentials.
4) Check Hard drive Disk space.
5) Never install Beta drivers, always use current WHQL drivers.

Good luck!

menetlaus · Sep 23, 2013

Maybe don't run both games at the same time in separate windows.

You might want to check your temps using something like hwmonitor (watch both CPU and GPU) as if either are over 90C the system might be throttling down to stay under a thermal limit.

Other than that, sounds like something else is running in the background or something in the windows install isn't right (a wipe of the HDD and reinstall windows would fix either)

JimmyB23 · Sep 23, 2013

I have 12gb of DDR3 1600mhz ram, and that never really gets going for either game... as far as temps go I think the CPU has overheated once or twice but it only tells me if i try restarting the PC. My HD has over 300GB left!

I will try the HW monitor now and re post

JimmyB23 · Sep 23, 2013

menetlaus :

Sorry I wasnt very clear I have not run both games at the same time I would try one and then the other to no avail...

JimmyB23 · Sep 23, 2013

BSim500 :

Just now running Chrome and nothing else the GPU temp is at 37 Celsius and the CPU is about 75 Celsius on each core.... CPU fan running at 2300RPM roughly

rgd1101 · Sep 23, 2013

75C is too much for just chrome.

RobCrezz · Sep 23, 2013

JimmyB23 :

That is way too hot for idling (running chrome). Thats why its throttling and getting poor performance.

It could be a few things (most likely first):

1) heatsink is not seated correctly
2) Paste between the CPU and heatsink is not correctly applied
3) fan on the heatsink is not plugged in

BSim500 · Sep 23, 2013

JimmyB23 :

If you've got 75c temps when virtually idle (just web browser open), then your heatsink appears to no longer be making contact with your CPU (or your fan has died - which you could tell by looking at HWMonitor's RPM's). Trying removing it, reapplying thermal paste (clean off old paste first) & reattaching it. What heatsink/fan have you got?

JimmyB23 · Sep 23, 2013

Seems to be the thermal paste needs replacing, will update when/if sorted!

Thanks for all your help guys

menetlaus · Sep 23, 2013

Thermal paste NEVER needs replacing if it is done right.

I'd guess: too much was used in the first place, the heatsink wasn't tightened to make proper contact, or more likely a combination of the two.

Christopher Shaffer · Sep 30, 2013

75 sounds high, but it doesn't account for the issue with low frame rates and mediocre video performance. It might account for BSOD or crashes, though.

My first guess when I read this was that you had plugged your HDMI cable into the motherboard's HDMI port and not the one on the 7850. It's an easy mistake to make.

menetlaus · Sep 30, 2013

Christopher Shaffer :

75C is alright for a LOAD temperature (ie 100% CPU usage), but at idle it shouldn't be over 50/55.

All new processors (CPU and GPU's) have thermal protection mechanisms built into them, this is how they are able to automatically turbo to a higher state when there is thermal headroom available... the flip side of this is when overheating they can drastically underclock themselves to prevent from burning out. I remember a video (years ago) where someone removed the heatsink from a XXXX CPU without any thermal management and within 30 seconds it was smoking, PC crashed, and it needed a new CPU (and probably motherboard). They then pulled the heatsink from a thermally managed CPU, framerates went into the toilet, but the game/system stayed up and running.

So years ago poor thermals would result in BSOD's and crashes (and often - dead hardware), now they just result in awful performance.

Christopher Shaffer · Sep 30, 2013

menetlaus :

Sure but he didn't mention anything about crashes, etc. I don't doubt there's a thermal issue, but the idea of getting 5fps and having the game on lowest settings sounds like the 7850 isn't even in the picture.

It's also unclear if his temp reading was actually under idle or load. 75C is high for this CPU, even under load, but not death-level, though its pushing it. From his description, it sounds like he took readings from within minutes of exiting the game. Hardly enough time for the CPU to cool off.

I made an educated guess that 1). His temp reading might be inaccurate, 2). The GPU wasn't in the mix due to user error, and 3). The 75C temp (under load) could be explained by using the MoBo HDMI and taxing the Intel HD graphics processor.

I think there's more going on than a hot CPU because his symptoms don't fit, and the GPU is either shot or not in the mix.

RobCrezz · Oct 1, 2013

menetlaus :

Christopher Shaffer :

Actually the symptoms do fit. If its hitting 75'c when just running a browser, then a game will easily push the cpu close to its maximum temperature - when the cpu gets close to its max temp it will throttle down the speed and voltage to lower the heat - this will result in terrible game performance and huge fps drops.

Its a common mistake to assume that fps is totally based on the graphics card.

Christopher Shaffer · Oct 1, 2013

RobCrezz :

menetlaus :

Christopher Shaffer :

Actually the symptoms do fit. If its hitting 75'c when just running a browser, then a game will easily push the cpu close to its maximum temperature - when the cpu gets close to its max temp it will throttle down the speed and voltage to lower the heat - this will result in terrible game performance and huge fps drops.

Its a common mistake to assume that fps is totally based on the graphics card.

Obviously, FPS isn't 100% GPU, but 5 frames per second running Batman on lowest settings without a crash and 100% CPU usage points to the GPU doing nothing and the CPU working its ass off, which begs the question "Why is the CPU working so hard?".

So no, graphics isn't 100% GPU, but in a system with a 7850 it shouldn't be 100% CPU, either.

There may be an issue with contact on the HSF, and this would explain high temps, but it wouldn't explain CPU usage and lack of GPU usage.

There's clearly something else going on besides a hot CPU.

It's just a shot in the dark, but I still think he might have his HDMI in the wrong port.

That, or he's already fried his CPU, but that doesn't account for otherwise normal operation.

Let's hear a response from the OP before we speculate anymore without all the facts.

BSim500 · Oct 1, 2013

Christopher Shaffer :

If the CPU is throttling say 95% of the time, that's the equivalent of a 3.4GHz CPU turning into a 170Mhz CPU in which case it would end up with 5fps under 100% CPU load.

A few years ago there was a video on THG where they deliberately removed the heatsinks from an Intel P4 and an Athlon XP to test thermal protection. It resulted in exactly the same effect:-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xf0VuRG7MN4

Christopher Shaffer :

It does. A 95% throttled CPU won't show 5% load, it will show 100% load because every cycle of the 1/20 of a second it's switched on will be fully loaded and the 19/20ths of a second will not count as idle because the CPU is effectively power gated off and not just "idle".

menetlaus · Oct 1, 2013

JimmyB23 :

From the OP themselves... "running Chrome and nothing else" the CPU was 75C.

This is a GIANT RED FLAG that there is a massive thermal issue on the computer.

A system I built years ago for my (now ex) gf started to exhibit similar symptoms (slowing down bigtime after a few minutes of gaming), a quick check on HWMon and the idle CPU temps were >60. Pull the side panel off the case, blow out the dust/hair/smoke from the CPU and GPU heatsinks... and voilla - system ran as normal. Though dust buildup is unlikely to be the OP's issue as a 3470 should be too new to have a bad case of the dust bunnies.

Christopher Shaffer · Oct 1, 2013

Maybe the OP could reply and let us know? Now I just want to now what he's found!

viodhawk · Oct 1, 2013

This is easily fixed by using the following steps

1. unplug your computer
2. open the case
3. disconnect everything attached to the motherboard and power supply
4. rip out anything with the word Intel on it
5. replace with shiny new AMD goodies such as the FX 9590 - world fastest CPU
6 relax and enjoy the fact that you have just future proofed yourself for many years to come , not to mention you will now be using equipment that games like BF4 have been optimized for by their manufacturers for AMD systems.

point of interest.. the products used in our ( USA ) missiles , jet fighters , navy firing solution systems etc are now made by AMD .
Why you ask? Because Failtel decided to screw people over ( again and as usual ) by having China involved in their manufacturing process. They also have a plant in the middle east by the way.
One more bit of trivia for you ... intel has the middle east site making chips with remote kill switches built into the CPUs.
Oh , that's for your safety of course.

RobCrezz · Oct 2, 2013

Christopher Shaffer :

RobCrezz :

Obviously, FPS isn't 100% GPU, but 5 frames per second running Batman on lowest settings without a crash and 100% CPU usage points to the GPU doing nothing and the CPU working its ass off, which begs the question "Why is the CPU working so hard?".

So no, graphics isn't 100% GPU, but in a system with a 7850 it shouldn't be 100% CPU, either.

There may be an issue with contact on the HSF, and this would explain high temps, but it wouldn't explain CPU usage and lack of GPU usage.

There's clearly something else going on besides a hot CPU.

It's just a shot in the dark, but I still think he might have his HDMI in the wrong port.

That, or he's already fried his CPU, but that doesn't account for otherwise normal operation.

Let's hear a response from the OP before we speculate anymore without all the facts.

Sorry, but you dont know what you are talking about. It totally would explain the high cpu usage (due to be being throttlled down) and the low GPU usage (due to not being able to run the game fast enough and creating a bottleneck).

Christopher Shaffer · Oct 2, 2013

viodhawk :

I dunno, I think this guy must be right. After all, no one ever buys Intels that work just fine, overclock perfectly and perform just fine.

I mean, I don't know why anyone would ever buy a 3570k. I mean, it's not like Tom's would ever recommend them: http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/gaming-cpu-review-overclock,3106-4.html

And I mean, it's not like "optimized for AMD" (BF4) refers to the GPU, that would never make sense.

Christopher Shaffer · Oct 3, 2013

viodhawk :

You know, I just realized my Army coffee mug is made in China. Damn, so are my National Guard pants... And shirt, and backpack.

Oh crap! So is every laptop part on every Guard-issued PC! Nooooo!

Oh man, now we're really screwed, cuz I just found out my buddy in the Marines has a cell phone made in China, too.

I wonder if the government realizes this? There is no way they'd just buy parts that serve the same purpose for the lowest price, right?

And, I mean, it's not like all those processors you're referring to are actually ARM processors, right? Cause those are made by Samsung... IN CHINA!

Cold War is over, dude.

Oh, and Intel has a plant in the Middle East.... In Israel, who happens to be our ally.

Just because something is made in China doesn't make it bad. Just because someone associates with the Middle East in some way doesn't make them a terrorist. Lets stay on topic and not focus on ignorant fallacies.

Why is my i5 struggling with games?

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