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AMD FX 9370 or Steamroller?

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October 16, 2013 3:37:48 PM

AMD FX 9370 and 9590 got a HUGE price cut, and it fits really nicely in my budget, why were they so expensive in the first place and how did AMD manage to give it such a huge price cut?

Anyway, I'm building a new gaming PC this December and I was kind of stuck on the CPU - the 9370 was out of the question since the price tag was so huge..What really concerns me is the TDP..220w..Almost 3x times as much as the i7 4770K.
So should I wait for Steamroller?

The reason I want this CPU is because of Watch Dogs (which, by the way, is delayed until 2014), its ultra system requirements is a 9370..

How big should my PSU be?
CPU - AMD FX 9370 (or steamroller if answers suggest so)
GPU - R9 290 (Equivalent of a GTX 780, actually 6 percent faster according to an articly I read earlier today.)
- 1 7200RPM Hard Drive
- An SSD
- 8 GB 1866Mhz RAM
-Zalman LQ310 (to cool the CPU - the 9370 doesn't come with a stock cooler..)

When do you think Steamroller will be out, that is, if it comes...

More about : amd 9370 steamroller

October 16, 2013 4:15:04 PM

DON'T BUY ONE! They're just overclocked FX-8350 and are overkill for gaming. And with the FX-8350 about an 750 or 800w PSU will do you.
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October 16, 2013 5:10:13 PM

Don't get the FX-9370. It has an absurd TDP of about 220W. The FX-8350 is a much better CPU in that regard at only 125W. I have it and it's great. The R9-290 is overkill because I run BF4 perfectly with my HD 7970.
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October 16, 2013 8:02:29 PM

Derppppp said:
AMD FX 9370 and 9590 got a HUGE price cut, and it fits really nicely in my budget, why were they so expensive in the first place and how did AMD manage to give it such a huge price cut?

.
.
.

So should I wait for Steamroller?



1. Because AMD thought they could get away with charging a huge premium for those CPUs.

2. Because no one was buying those CPUs.

3. Steamroller has not been announced yet for socket AM3+ or AM4. Only socket FM2+ Kaveri APUs will have Steamroller cores coming out in 2014 based on AMD's most recent roadmap that I have seen.
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October 16, 2013 8:17:32 PM

The rumour is that Steamroller will definitely be AM3+ and Excavator will "most likely" be AM3+. I don't think there will be an AM4 socket, I think that AMD will unify the CPUs and APUs with FM3. I do prefer the sound of AM4 better though. :D 
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October 16, 2013 8:38:45 PM

I actually posted several times that AMD should simply abandon socket AM3+ since last year because they need to reduce overall costs. Socket AM3+ CPUs only serves the desktop while socket FM2 APUs serves both desktop and laptops.

AMD cannot continue as a company in the long run unless they can reduce their expenses. They actually have about $2.2 billion of convertible senior notes due in 2015. Basically speaking, that means upon certain conditions when the senior notes comes due in 2015. AMD will either need to pay back the senior note holders $2.2 billion, or that $2.2 billion worth of senior notes gets converted into AMD stock to be given to senior note holders, or a combination of the two.

When senior notes are converted into common stock, that will cause the share price of AMD to drop because the while the overall equity in AMD remains the same, the number of shares outstanding will increase. To put it simply, the same size pie (value of AMD) must be cut into even more slices (more shareholders) which means everyone's slice will be smaller (lower stock price).
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October 17, 2013 1:18:26 AM

I was simply referring to the fact that the FX series CPUs are only on the desktop while AMD's A series APUs are in both desktops and laptops. Thus AMD's APUs have a much broader potential product base than the FX CPUs.
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October 17, 2013 1:28:13 AM

Currently I view Steamroller for desktops as a little more than a myth. You will be waiting a loooong time for that one - people will forget about Watch Dogs already and you will still be waiting for it.
October 17, 2013 2:46:15 AM

Avro Arrow said:
The rumour is that Steamroller will definitely be AM3+ and Excavator will "most likely" be AM3+. I don't think there will be an AM4 socket, I think that AMD will unify the CPUs and APUs with FM3. I do prefer the sound of AM4 better though. :D 


Do you think once (or if) steamroller is out, motherboards will start to support PCIE 3.0?
October 17, 2013 11:32:42 AM

jaguarskx said:
I actually posted several times that AMD should simply abandon socket AM3+ since last year because they need to reduce overall costs. Socket AM3+ CPUs only serves the desktop while socket FM2 APUs serves both desktop and laptops.

AMD cannot continue as a company in the long run unless they can reduce their expenses. They actually have about $2.2 billion of convertible senior notes due in 2015. Basically speaking, that means upon certain conditions when the senior notes comes due in 2015. AMD will either need to pay back the senior note holders $2.2 billion, or that $2.2 billion worth of senior notes gets converted into AMD stock to be given to senior note holders, or a combination of the two.

When senior notes are converted into common stock, that will cause the share price of AMD to drop because the while the overall equity in AMD remains the same, the number of shares outstanding will increase. To put it simply, the same size pie (value of AMD) must be cut into even more slices (more shareholders) which means everyone's slice will be smaller (lower stock price).


hafijur said:
From: http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2289809&pa...
"My observations of powewr usage with stress being IBT
Stock 8350 with all power saving enabled
Idle: 80 Watts
Max 231 Watts

OC to 4.532 Ghz
Idle 129
Max 365"
.............................
This is why its a no brainer to get intel cpus. To be honest I would be scared to leave a pc with a cpu pulling that much power on its own, heck I don't think you can get an i7 4770k even oc to limit to get past 200w power consumption. An i7 4770k at 4.7ghz only takes 171w. You can see on below link an fx8350 most likely at fx9370 would take as an estimation 320w.
http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/2013/06/01/intel-core-...


I think I could fit a 4770k in my budget, I can get a smaller PSU and save some money which will budget towards the Intel CPU. I was actually intending to get a 1050w PSU. I'm pairing the CPU with a R9 290...I'll still wait & see what happens with steamroller, though.
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October 17, 2013 3:42:25 PM

I think you exaggerate really, Intel has a lead currently, but AMD is not THAT far behind. As a matter of fact, for an average consumer FX-8350 is an excellent CPU and a great value choice.

If you think about it - lately Intel is stagnating on the desktop CPU front - we got 2 new CPU generations with absolutely minor performance increases. All AMD needs to pressure Intel in desktop battlefield is FX-8350 with a modest 15% performance bump, nothing out of reach really - basically a next generation of FX processors.

Broadwell is certain to not bring any real performance boosts - maybe it will get 5-10% extra performance tops. On top of that I like AMD approach more, you can't go wrong with optimizing for multi-threading, because it is clear that the multithreading trend is the future, while strong single cores approach will eventually die out.

What I like about Intel is that their CPU's are "smarter" and more advanced, especially I7 line - HyperThreading is an amazing idea, but I think they can stretch their Quad Cores only so much, soon they will have to start introducing cheaper 6 cores for desktops, because having a 220$ AMD CPU beating a 260$ Intel CPU in quite a few tasks and running equal in some more tasks is not a very healthy situation.

That said, I don't have much faith in 2014 regarding to CPU breakthroughs from either Inter or AMD - Broadwell will be "meh" at best for Desktop users and AMD is extremely quiet on Desktop front too lately, with seemingly shifting focus more towards APUs, servers and other ventures.

Kinda sucks.
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October 22, 2013 6:42:25 AM

hafijur said:
From: http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2289809&pa...
"My observations of powewr usage with stress being IBT
Stock 8350 with all power saving enabled
Idle: 80 Watts
Max 231 Watts

OC to 4.532 Ghz
Idle 129
Max 365"
.............................
This is why its a no brainer to get intel cpus. To be honest I would be scared to leave a pc with a cpu pulling that much power on its own, heck I don't think you can get an i7 4770k even oc to limit to get past 200w power consumption. An i7 4770k at 4.7ghz only takes 171w. You can see on below link an fx8350 most likely at fx9370 would take as an estimation 320w.
http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/2013/06/01/intel-core-...



So were you scared of running space heater crapburst P4's back in the day? Come to think of it, my old Kentsfield Xeon x3210 @ 3.6ghz wasn't a slouch in power consumption either. I switched it out for a Wolfdale E8400. I saw absolutely no benefit on my power bill. Your Intel leg humping has gotten old.
October 23, 2013 1:51:11 PM

I'm pretty set on getting an FX 8350. And I'm planning on pairing this with the Cooler Master Seidon 240m. I've seen people getting 4.8 Ghz with is cooler (it could probably go even higher).

What do YOU guys think is the better option.
i7 4770 (w/ stock cooler) vs FX 8350 (w/ cooler master seidon 240m)
Also, I'm planning in getting an 850w PSU, is this enough?
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October 23, 2013 1:56:19 PM

Derppppp said:
I'm pretty set on getting an FX 8350. And I'm planning on pairing this with the Cooler Master Seidon 240m. I've seen people getting 4.8 Ghz with is cooler (it could probably go even higher).

What do YOU guys think is the better option.
i7 4770 (w/ stock cooler) vs FX 8350 (w/ cooler master seidon 240m)
Also, I'm planning in getting an 850w PSU, is this enough?


FX 8350 + 850W is plenty, arguably more than you need unless you're running 2 GPUs. If you only intend to ever run 1 GPU 650W is more than sufficient.
October 23, 2013 2:00:14 PM

jaguarskx said:
I actually posted several times that AMD should simply abandon socket AM3+ since last year because they need to reduce overall costs. Socket AM3+ CPUs only serves the desktop while socket FM2 APUs serves both desktop and laptops.

AMD cannot continue as a company in the long run unless they can reduce their expenses. They actually have about $2.2 billion of convertible senior notes due in 2015. Basically speaking, that means upon certain conditions when the senior notes comes due in 2015. AMD will either need to pay back the senior note holders $2.2 billion, or that $2.2 billion worth of senior notes gets converted into AMD stock to be given to senior note holders, or a combination of the two.

When senior notes are converted into common stock, that will cause the share price of AMD to drop because the while the overall equity in AMD remains the same, the number of shares outstanding will increase. To put it simply, the same size pie (value of AMD) must be cut into even more slices (more shareholders) which means everyone's slice will be smaller (lower stock price).


it would benefit them to produce more am3 cpus
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October 23, 2013 4:36:54 PM

No not really, they need to consolidate their products to reduce overall costs. That allows AMD to payoff their debt so that they can pay less interest on their debt every quarter on the debt they owe, thus further reducing their overall expenses. It also frees up some cash that can then be devoted for R&D or to acquire smaller IT companies who have developed or are currently developing hardware / software which can enhance AMD's value in the long run when they begin to implement those acquired hardware / software into their products.

Desktop PC sales on the whole is declining as mobile devices surge in sales. The only way for socket AM3+ CPUs to really gain in sales is to steal market share away from Intel. Therefore, the need to convince OEMs like Dell and HP to sell more desktop PCs using socket AM3+ CPUs. AMD has not been very successful in the past doing that, and it is unlikely to happen now.

OEMs want to sell desktop PCs that are attractively priced for the consumer while having a certain minimum acceptable margin on each unit sold to cover costs and add profit to the OEMs' bottomline. One way for OEMs to lower costs is to have a low wattage PSU. Most desktop PCs are sold with 300w - 350w PSU (at least in my opinion) with many also sold with 220w - 250w PSUs as well for slimline PC cases. The problem is the FX series draws a lot more power under load compared to an Intel CPU. Under full CPU load the difference in power consumption between an i5-3570 and the FX-8350 ranges between 95w - 105w depending on which review site you go to. Simply speaking, that means the OEMs will need to equip FX-8350 CPUs with a PSU that is 100w more powerful. That adds costs. Additionally, FX CPUs do not have an iGPU which means the OEM would also need to add a budget graphics card which also adds more costs and probably means a larger, more expensive power supply. The FX-8350 is an extreme example, a FX-6300 would likely be a better choice it still consumes more power than the i5-3570, but it is probably in the range of 60w - 80w more. The FX-4350 will likely draw a bit less power and also cost less.

On the other hand AMD's APUs serves both desktop and mobile markets and they have iGPUs which makes them more ideal for OEMs than the FX series because they can at least cut out the graphics card from the desktop PC.

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October 23, 2013 4:45:28 PM

Ahh, but you are missing a few key important pieces of information:

1.) The lag in DT sales is primarily driven by the fact that compelling hardware and software that is radically more powerful, or better, than what we already have has not been out in some time. This is evidenced by the fact that GPU sales are up quarter over quarter for the entire year, but CPU sales are down.

2.) HEDT or Gaming desktop sales are actually growing at a pace that is almost as fast as the PC market itself is declining. HEDT seems to be accounting for larger and larger percentages of desktop sales every quarter. Additionally, the purchase numbers are not plateauing in a shrinking market, they're climbing.

3.) AMD has the highest consumer penetration that they have in any segment of CPUs in HEDT. Their current market penetration there stands just north of 30%, by abandoning that market segment, they would essentially be turning their back on the largest single user base they have buying their products.

4.) The new consoles will continue to drive HEDT sales as games become more demanding on PCs. This is witnessed by some next gen game hardware recommendations already. As that occurs, AMD stands in a good position to gain market share in a relatively high margin segment with a very loyal customer base while Intel abandons that segment, and/or tries to push them to $500+ CPUs that require $300+ motherboards.

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October 23, 2013 5:27:51 PM

The only article I can find about PC Hardware sale related to gaming is from Hexus.

http://hexus.net/business/news/components/58669-pc-gami...



CAGR = Compound Annual Growth Rate.

Hardware sale related to PC gaming actually decreased from 2012 to 2013, but it is expected to grow into 2016 at the rate of 6.5% for 2014, 4.0% for 2015 and 5.4% for 2016.

Quote:
The analysts think that as X86 tablets grow in popularity and new living room PC gaming expands with smaller more powerful PCs people will aspire to use the unassailable power of an expandable/upgradable PC to experience the best in ultra-high resolution graphics. JPR's Worldwide PC Gaming Hardware Market report covers data from 33 countries and notebooks, desktops, DIY, and accessories.


The important thing to note in that quote is that notebooks sales are part of the sales figure which actual skews the results. Yes, based on the article sales are going up. However, how much of those sales are driven by gaming notebooks and how much is driven by desktop sales. There is simply not enough information to make that determination. Additionally, you will need to separate out the accessories as well.

In the end it is difficult to determine the trend specifically related to the desktop PC market.
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October 24, 2013 11:24:49 AM

The source of the article from Hexus is from the John Peddie Research you referred to. The quote I posted specifically refers to it as "JPR's Worldwide PC Gaming Hardware Market report".

The sales figures comes directly from the JPR article. This is the quote from the JPR explaining the figures:

Quote:
The Worldwide PC Gaming Hardware Market report series by Jon Peddie Research which covers 33 countries, notebooks, desktops, DIY, and accessories, comes in three versions: Enthusiast, Performance, and Mainstream, with each version selling for $7,500 and the set of three for $15,000. In addition, with the set is a summary report of the Total PC Gaming Hardware Market worldwide.


As I stated in my previous post, those sale figures includes notebooks, desktops, and accessories. There is no way it can be concluded that High End Desktop PC (HEDT) sales are on the rise based on what little information that is provided.

It seems that many people are buying gaming laptops (college students / professionals who do lots of traveling), and because prices of gaming laptops tends to cost more than gaming desktop fewer gaming laptops units sold would need to drive up total sales.

In the end there is no concrete evidence that shows high end desktop gaming PC sales is on the rise. The overall increase in laptop sales and decrease in desktop sales implies that the "Global PC Gaming Hardware Market" is more likely driven by gaming laptop sales than gaming desktop sales. Thus, there is no concrete evidence that show the market space for high end desktop CPUs like the FX-8350 is expanding.
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October 24, 2013 11:50:37 AM

I will have to track down the article that had access to the full reports and more in depth discussion. The information is out there, and HEDT is on the rise.
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