GTX 780 or 7990?
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Treeroyk
November 2, 2013 3:10:40 PM
I can't decide on which graphics card to get. I'm upgrading and the 780 and 7990 have an identical price, but I don't know which to buy.
Ideally I would like to max out games for the next couple of years [at 60+ fps @ 1080p]; the 7990 should be the obvious choice in terms of raw power, but it has its problems, or rather Crossfire has its problems. Some games don't support CF very well, and microstuttering looks like it's still an issue for non-DX11 games, of which I will play a few.
I'm specifically thinking ahead to things like the new Star Wars Battlefront, and Dragon Age: Inquisition. These are Frostbite 3 games, like Battlefield 4, and the 7990 absolutely destroys that game on every setting, while the same cannot be said for the 780.
The cards in question are XFX's 7990 (which I believe is actually just the reference card, right?), and the MSI 780 Lightning, which out of the box should outperform a Titan, plus it has good overclocking potential so should be significantly better than the benches for a normal 780.
I am not concerned with power/heat/noise and having done a bit more research, the coil whine problem with the 7990 probably isn't going to be a huge issue for me.
Which card should I get?
Ideally I would like to max out games for the next couple of years [at 60+ fps @ 1080p]; the 7990 should be the obvious choice in terms of raw power, but it has its problems, or rather Crossfire has its problems. Some games don't support CF very well, and microstuttering looks like it's still an issue for non-DX11 games, of which I will play a few.
I'm specifically thinking ahead to things like the new Star Wars Battlefront, and Dragon Age: Inquisition. These are Frostbite 3 games, like Battlefield 4, and the 7990 absolutely destroys that game on every setting, while the same cannot be said for the 780.
The cards in question are XFX's 7990 (which I believe is actually just the reference card, right?), and the MSI 780 Lightning, which out of the box should outperform a Titan, plus it has good overclocking potential so should be significantly better than the benches for a normal 780.
I am not concerned with power/heat/noise and having done a bit more research, the coil whine problem with the 7990 probably isn't going to be a huge issue for me.
Which card should I get?
More about : gtx 780 7990
GraphicsEnthusiast
November 2, 2013 3:18:30 PM
The r9 290x beats them both for a cheaper price. http://www.amazon.com/XFX-RADEON-1000MHz-Graphics-R9290... Here's one.
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Related resources
- 7990 Devil 13 or gtx780 - Tech Support
- r9 290x vs gtx780ti vs hd 7990 vs r9 280x - Tech Support
- GTX 780 vs Radeon 7990? - Tech Support
- HD 7990 vs Gtx 780/780ti - Tech Support
- hd7990 vs r9 290x vs gtx 780 - Tech Support
Well, if power and heat is not a matter for you because you have a pretty good airflow in your case and a good powersuply that's over 750w you really should go for the HD 7990. Let's say, a single HD 7970 can run most if not all games at solid 40fps or more with ultra quality settings @ 1080p.
And a HD7990 will give you a performance margin that will endure long time in terms of gaming at 1080p.
DX9 and 10.1 games means that are old, and a single HD 7970 will run them as a joke. Xfire microstutter is a problem that's been adressed and will likely to be fixed sooner than later.
Still, if you are playing in a 144ghz monitor at 1080p a game like Battlefield 4 you will enjoy benefits of the frame placing software in recent Catalyst drivers.
What else? HD 7990 wins if you are not corncern about power, heat or noise. Of course if you want a powerfull machine that consume a lot less and it's barely audible the geforce card has an upper hand.
And a HD7990 will give you a performance margin that will endure long time in terms of gaming at 1080p.
DX9 and 10.1 games means that are old, and a single HD 7970 will run them as a joke. Xfire microstutter is a problem that's been adressed and will likely to be fixed sooner than later.
Still, if you are playing in a 144ghz monitor at 1080p a game like Battlefield 4 you will enjoy benefits of the frame placing software in recent Catalyst drivers.
What else? HD 7990 wins if you are not corncern about power, heat or noise. Of course if you want a powerfull machine that consume a lot less and it's barely audible the geforce card has an upper hand.
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letsrelax
November 2, 2013 3:23:48 PM
Have a gtx 780 and love it here is my sales pitch...
It can max out any game now and I use a 2560x1440 120hz monitor (Witcher 2, Bioshock Infinite, Metro Last Light, Tomb Raider)
I have never gone over 70 degrees Celsius maxing out a game
Very quiet I am watercooling it and the only noise I hear is my pump
Also in the future when the 780 goes lower you can buy another!
The bad things about the 7990 is that it still has issues with its drivers, runs hotter, runs louder, and won't work with multi-screen options. It is more powerful then 7990 but it is at its max potential right now where the 780 you can still sli.
gtx 780 is a safe bet it is quiet, runs cool, runs powerful, and can be upgraded
It can max out any game now and I use a 2560x1440 120hz monitor (Witcher 2, Bioshock Infinite, Metro Last Light, Tomb Raider)
I have never gone over 70 degrees Celsius maxing out a game
Very quiet I am watercooling it and the only noise I hear is my pump
Also in the future when the 780 goes lower you can buy another!
The bad things about the 7990 is that it still has issues with its drivers, runs hotter, runs louder, and won't work with multi-screen options. It is more powerful then 7990 but it is at its max potential right now where the 780 you can still sli.
gtx 780 is a safe bet it is quiet, runs cool, runs powerful, and can be upgraded
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GraphicsEnthusiast said:
The r9 290x beats them both for a cheaper price. http://www.amazon.com/XFX-RADEON-1000MHz-Graphics-R9290... Here's one.The GTX 780 has been repriced to $499 by NV, the old $650 price was a rip off and it is slower than the 290x anyway, the 780Ti will be out at $699 on Nov 7th if it is not held back, the same time the 290 non-x is going to be released on Nov 5th.
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Treeroyk
November 2, 2013 4:23:48 PM
GraphicsEnthusiast said:
The r9 290x beats them both for a cheaper price. http://www.amazon.com/XFX-RADEON-1000MHz-Graphics-R9290... Here's one.I'm not really looking for Door 3, I'm just asking between the 780 and 7990. There's a reason I didn't mention the R9 290X. It's £100 more than the two I mentioned.
Also, the R9 290X does NOT beat the 7990, the 7990 is still the fastest card.
endeavour37a said:
I would take a hard look at the new R9 290x Hawaiian core from AMD at $575. If money is not a huge issue wait 5 days and look at the GTX 780Ti, it will be the fasted single GPU on the market, matching the 7990 and 690 in performance, with moderate power draw and heat.Money is an issue though. I'm basically at the cap of my budget with these cards, so I can't spend above that for the 780 Ti - or the R9 290X.
horaciopz said:
Well, if power and heat is not a matter for you because you have a pretty good airflow in your case and a good powersuply that's over 750w you really should go for the HD 7990. Let's say, a single HD 7970 can run most if not all games at solid 40fps or more with ultra quality settings @ 1080p.And a HD7990 will give you a performance margin that will endure long time in terms of gaming at 1080p.
DX9 and 10.1 games means that are old, and a single HD 7970 will run them as a joke. Xfire microstutter is a problem that's been adressed and will likely to be fixed sooner than later.
Still, if you are playing in a 144ghz monitor at 1080p a game like Battlefield 4 you will enjoy benefits of the frame placing software in recent Catalyst drivers.
What else? HD 7990 wins if you are not corncern about power, heat or noise. Of course if you want a powerfull machine that consume a lot less and it's barely audible the geforce card has an upper hand.
My PSU should be able to handle it fine, if I get the 7990 it'll be a high quality Seasonic unit.
I do agree with the logic that on older games that don't use Crossfire well, or where microstutter occurs, just the 7970 itself *should* be able to handle it fine. However there are exceptions like The Witcher 2, which is an extremely demanding DX9 game, and one that I would like to max out smoothly.
letsrelax said:
Have a gtx 780 and love it here is my sales pitch...It can max out any game now and I use a 2560x1440 120hz monitor (Witcher 2, Bioshock Infinite, Metro Last Light, Tomb Raider)
I have never gone over 70 degrees Celsius maxing out a game
Very quiet I am watercooling it and the only noise I hear is my pump
Also in the future when the 780 goes lower you can buy another!
The bad things about the 7990 is that it still has issues with its drivers, runs hotter, runs louder, and won't work with multi-screen options. It is more powerful then 7990 but it is at its max potential right now where the 780 you can still sli.
gtx 780 is a safe bet it is quiet, runs cool, runs powerful, and can be upgraded
Are you sure you've got Metro on max settings if you're getting 60+ fps with the 780? I'm pretty sure that nothing can do that. Maxing Witcher 2 smoothly would be nice though :l
The potential to SLI doesn't interest me really, since by the time I'd want to do that, I would be able to afford a much newer, much more powerful GPU anyway. I'm really looking for just one card to buy now.
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It sounds like the 7990 is the perfect match for you wants and needs at the present time, it surly out performs the 780 in every aspect. If power and heat is not an issue then that is the card for you. Yet I have heard nothing good about the XFire problems it still has, perhaps they may fix them one day, we can hope anyway.
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Treeroyk
November 2, 2013 5:17:05 PM
endeavour37a said:
It sounds like the 7990 is the perfect match for you wants and needs at the present time, it surly out performs the 780 in every aspect. If power and heat is not an issue then that is the card for you. Yet I have heard nothing good about the XFire problems it still has, perhaps they may fix them one day, we can hope anyway. The microstuttering has been pretty much fixed for most games, as far as I can tell. In a world where Crossfire worked, I agree that the 7990 would be ideal, but unfortunately that's not our world. I'm asking, I suppose, whether the performance justifies the problems. (And I'm tempted to say they are, because the reason I'm getting a high-powered GPU is to max current and future games, which run fine for the most part with this)
endeavour37a said:
Just for the fun of it I looked up the pricing of a 7990 here in the US, it is $800, $580 for a 290x, 780 for $499. I see you live in the UK, it's funny why the same pricing relationship is not the same between us.Yeah, it's really odd. It's a nudge above £400 for both the 7990 and GTX 780, and then £550 for the R9 290X. Pricing is generally very weird between here and across the pond; standard GPU prices are roughly the same in dollars as they are in pound sterling, so we usually get ripped off a fair bit (for example a Titan being $1000 and £900). But in this case, it's a matter of discounts - the 7990 has been heavily cut in price, perhaps in a way that hasn't happened over in the US.
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Treeroyk
November 2, 2013 6:43:41 PM
horaciopz said:
Well, if power and heat is not a matter for you because you have a pretty good airflow in your case Do you think the Coolermaster CM Storm Stryker has good enough airflow?
And I'm still not convinced about Crossfire - it seems that it has a lot of problems. Plus the coil whine *may* be annoying, I don't know. The 780 looks like the more reasonable thing to go with, but honestly the raw power of the 7990 is extremely compelling.
Do you think a heavily OC'd 780 (better than a Titan) could max most games for the next couple of years? Because that ultimately is what I'm looking for.
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I read a story here I guess about a month ago on the 7990 with the price cut, it was not too flattering on the XFire problem, heat, noise and power used. It left me with the feeling that I would personally not want to spend that kind of money and take the risk of having those problems to be concerned with. Yet as you see here many think it is a great card. You of course are in a different position with the cost of cards there, if the price were like that here I would be in the same position as you asking how best to spend my cash.
I have no idea why the XFire issues have not been fixed by AMD like they have by NV, not like they have not had the time or it's a new problem. I wish I could tell you what to do, my last comment is I guess what I would suggest, the 7990 is a powerful card and currently beats the snot out of the 780.
Have you thought about a pair of 760? They easily beat the 780 and are close to Titan performance without SLI issues.
I have no idea why the XFire issues have not been fixed by AMD like they have by NV, not like they have not had the time or it's a new problem. I wish I could tell you what to do, my last comment is I guess what I would suggest, the 7990 is a powerful card and currently beats the snot out of the 780.
Have you thought about a pair of 760? They easily beat the 780 and are close to Titan performance without SLI issues.
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Treeroyk said:
horaciopz said:
Well, if power and heat is not a matter for you because you have a pretty good airflow in your case Do you think the Coolermaster CM Storm Stryker has good enough airflow?
And I'm still not convinced about Crossfire - it seems that it has a lot of problems. Plus the coil whine *may* be annoying, I don't know. The 780 looks like the more reasonable thing to go with, but honestly the raw power of the 7990 is extremely compelling.
Do you think a heavily OC'd 780 (better than a Titan) could max most games for the next couple of years? Because that ultimately is what I'm looking for.
Indeed it is. That's a pretty good case.
I still would go for an HD7990. Mantle, next optimizations via software and games able to fully utilize it (next gen games that uses updated engines that should be around GCN architecture, multiple cores and tons of RAM available). GCN, well for me, is a mature and still relevant architecture and i feel that it will last pretty solid for the next generations.
nVidia launched the G-sync technology which i saw as a step in a right direction but it needs some time to be actually relevant in a decision to buy a GPU and a monitor.
A good idea for you is to prioritize what you actually want and how you want it. The GTX 780 will run great and you will have the option to upgrade it later, using a SLI of GTX 780 will yield massively performance.
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I would personally go for the 780, crossfire still has it's driver issues and they haven't been completely ironed out.
An overclocked 780 matches and/or beats the Titan it certain scenarios, it will handle any game you throw at it.
The 7990 may be faster but its more expensive and has its drawbacks. you are better off with a single card like the 780 or wait for the 780ti which is released in 4 days that will be going for $700 and then make a comparison.
An overclocked 780 matches and/or beats the Titan it certain scenarios, it will handle any game you throw at it.
The 7990 may be faster but its more expensive and has its drawbacks. you are better off with a single card like the 780 or wait for the 780ti which is released in 4 days that will be going for $700 and then make a comparison.
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Treeroyk
November 2, 2013 7:59:48 PM
endeavour37a said:
I read a story here I guess about a month ago on the 7990 with the price cut, it was not too flattering on the XFire problem, heat, noise and power used. It left me with the feeling that I would personally not want to spend that kind of money and take the risk of having those problems to be concerned with. Yet as you see here many think it is a great card. You of course are in a different position with the cost of cards there, if the price were like that here I would be in the same position as you asking how best to spend my cash.I have no idea why the XFire issues have not been fixed by AMD like they have by NV, not like they have not had the time or it's a new problem. I wish I could tell you what to do, my last comment is I guess what I would suggest, the 7990 is a powerful card and currently beats the snot out of the 780.
Have you thought about a pair of 760? They easily beat the 780 and are close to Titan performance without SLI issues.
I hadn't thought of 760s, but the 780 I'm thinking about is the MSI Lightning, which is supposed to be a touch faster than the stock Titan - so it'd be more powerful than those 760s, and obviously there's no concern with regards to SLI support in the case of the 780.
And you're certainly right that the low price is making it hard to decide!
It's really hard to decide whether I should go with unstable power, or stable low-power (comparatively!
)horaciopz said:
Indeed it is. That's a pretty good case.I still would go for an HD7990. Mantle, next optimizations via software and games able to fully utilize it (next gen games that uses updated engines that should be around GCN architecture, multiple cores and tons of RAM available). GCN, well for me, is a mature and still relevant architecture and i feel that it will last pretty solid for the next generations.
nVidia launched the G-sync technology which i saw as a step in a right direction but it needs some time to be actually relevant in a decision to buy a GPU and a monitor.
A good idea for you is to prioritize what you actually want and how you want it. The GTX 780 will run great and you will have the option to upgrade it later, using a SLI of GTX 780 will yield massively performance.
I don't know if Mantle is really going to take off and be of much use, since it's not supported by the Xbox One and doesn't look like the PS4 will have it either. But like you said, I am pretty sure that AMD is going to be well optimised in the next few years, thanks to the consoles being AMD-based.
I don't have a lot of interest in G-sync, at this level of performance the GPU shouldn't be dropping frames and tearing anyway.
Your last paragraph has provoked me to write a list of what I want, plus advantages/disadvantages of each card, and I'll try to come to a conclusion that way. I think I'll do that next.
monsta said:
I would personally go for the 780, crossfire still has it's driver issues and they haven't been completely ironed out.An overclocked 780 matches and/or beats the Titan it certain scenarios, it will handle any game you throw at it.
The 7990 may be faster but its more expensive and has its drawbacks. you are better off with a single card like the 780 or wait for the 780ti which is released in 4 days that will be going for $700 and then make a comparison.
2 years down the line, will the 780 still be handling any game at max settings at 60+ fps? Probably not. But the 7990 likely will.
And you didn't read the original post properly, the 7990 is not more expensive. If it was, I probably wouldn't be asking this. The 7990 and 780 are the same price (the 7990 is actually £30 cheaper).
I also won't be able to afford the 780 ti; as said before, this is at the cap of my budget, really, and the 780 ti will be significantly above that.
As for Crossfire issues - as far as I'm aware this only really applies to older games; the frame latency problems have been pretty much fixed for DX11 games, it seems. Which makes me think - for the most part, surely the single 7970 would easily max said older games. So when Crossfire isn't working, it should still be fine... right?
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The MSI Lightning? Done deal, that card is a MONSTER! Get it and rock on, it is indeed a well built card, what does it have, something like 12 phase power? That is the most expensive 780 card here in the US and none beat it, I have read it is the equal of the Titan.
Just to add some info for others, the 780GHz is going to show up also, Gigabyte already has one, it looks pretty cool, basically a Lightning of a different color, no pricing yet. Is not going to be a reference NV card, vender only stuff, 8 phase power over standard 6 phase, memory the same.
Anyway, I would say get that MSI card, wish I could get one
Just to add some info for others, the 780GHz is going to show up also, Gigabyte already has one, it looks pretty cool, basically a Lightning of a different color, no pricing yet. Is not going to be a reference NV card, vender only stuff, 8 phase power over standard 6 phase, memory the same.
Anyway, I would say get that MSI card, wish I could get one
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Treeroyk
November 2, 2013 9:32:26 PM
endeavour37a said:
The MSI Lightning? Done deal, that card is a MONSTER! Get it and rock on, it is indeed a well built card, what does it have, something like 12 phase power? That is the most expensive 780 card here in the US and none beat it, I have read it is the equal of the Titan.Just to add some info for others, the 780GHz is going to show up also, Gigabyte already has one, it looks pretty cool, basically a Lightning of a different color, no pricing yet. Is not going to be a reference NV card, vender only stuff, 8 phase power over standard 6 phase, memory the same.
Anyway, I would say get that MSI card, wish I could get one
Right, so it's a good card - that's good news. But it's the same price as a 7990. Which is still a lot more powerful, albeit much more unstable. :l
I suppose I could actually get one of those now and then buy another slightly later down the line (probably in a year or two's time), at which point these cards will probably be significantly cheaper than they are now. That might be a better idea I guess - I don't have to worry about all the problems with Crossfire, and it should cover me for max settings for the moment. I'll have to think about this.
If I were to get a 780 now and then another one later on, what sort of motherboard should I be looking at to get for SLI? This will be with a i5-4670k processor, so Z87 chipset. If I'm going to prepare myself for SLI then the costs are going to go right up, which I'm not 100% happy about. Would a basic Asus Z87-A or Gigabyte Z87X-D3H / G45, do the job without bottlenecking the GPUs?
Also - can you SLI two different 780s? i.e. could I get the MSI Lightning now, and then later on get a more basic 780? Or do they have to be the same speed etc. (in which case would it not be possible to downclock?)
Sorry I don't know much about SLI.
On the other hand, a 7990 now would be able to max out new games much better than the 780 would; in that regard the 780 is only beneficial for older titles. Though it is more future proof if I were to SLI it further down the line.
Gah I don't know. The 7990 is still looking very appealing, as you might imagine, even with all its problems.
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Treeroyk said:
endeavour37a said:
It sounds like the 7990 is the perfect match for you wants and needs at the present time, it surly out performs the 780 in every aspect. If power and heat is not an issue then that is the card for you. Yet I have heard nothing good about the XFire problems it still has, perhaps they may fix them one day, we can hope anyway. The microstuttering has been pretty much fixed for most games, as far as I can tell. In a world where Crossfire worked, I agree that the 7990 would be ideal, but unfortunately that's not our world. I'm asking, I suppose, whether the performance justifies the problems. (And I'm tempted to say they are, because the reason I'm getting a high-powered GPU is to max current and future games, which run fine for the most part with this)
endeavour37a said:
Just for the fun of it I looked up the pricing of a 7990 here in the US, it is $800, $580 for a 290x, 780 for $499. I see you live in the UK, it's funny why the same pricing relationship is not the same between us.Yeah, it's really odd. It's a nudge above £400 for both the 7990 and GTX 780, and then £550 for the R9 290X. Pricing is generally very weird between here and across the pond; standard GPU prices are roughly the same in dollars as they are in pound sterling, so we usually get ripped off a fair bit (for example a Titan being $1000 and £900). But in this case, it's a matter of discounts - the 7990 has been heavily cut in price, perhaps in a way that hasn't happened over in the US.
If you get the 7990, you will come across games where it doesnt work well with, as it is crossfire on a single card. For the games it works well with, it can be faster than a 780 or 290x, but its a gamble that all the games you want to play will run right. a 780 or 290x single card are very good options, and you will be happy with them. I would almost guarantee at some stage of owning a 7990 (or any crossfire setup) you will regret that you didn't just get a fast single card. It only takes one game you really want to play, and it doesn't work properly for, and your back to half the speed of the cards potential. Been there, done that, never again.
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Choice depends on what is more important to you...
If you want cutting edge performance in the future Frostbite engine games (including BF4), get the 7990.
If you want consistent performance across all games, including non DX11 games and have no crossfire issues, get the GTX 780.
For $550 you can get the R9 290X which is single gpu and outperforms the 780. If you're willing to wait you may find one with a non-reference cooler which will feel and sound less like a jet engine.
Also the R9 290 (non X) is coming soon, should match or beat the existing 780 at a lower price (lower than $500)
As well as the GTX 780 Ti which is intended to dethrone the 290X as the best single GPU, though it's performance is not certain as of yet. It will cost about $700.
So the choice entirely depends on what is important to you, how much your willing to spend and how long you willing to wait. Us mortal beings in the forums have done our best to aid you. But we can't read your mind to know more about you than yourself, or predict to the future how exactly the new cards are going to perform.
If you want cutting edge performance in the future Frostbite engine games (including BF4), get the 7990.
If you want consistent performance across all games, including non DX11 games and have no crossfire issues, get the GTX 780.
For $550 you can get the R9 290X which is single gpu and outperforms the 780. If you're willing to wait you may find one with a non-reference cooler which will feel and sound less like a jet engine.
Also the R9 290 (non X) is coming soon, should match or beat the existing 780 at a lower price (lower than $500)
As well as the GTX 780 Ti which is intended to dethrone the 290X as the best single GPU, though it's performance is not certain as of yet. It will cost about $700.
So the choice entirely depends on what is important to you, how much your willing to spend and how long you willing to wait. Us mortal beings in the forums have done our best to aid you. But we can't read your mind to know more about you than yourself, or predict to the future how exactly the new cards are going to perform.
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Treeroyk
November 2, 2013 10:37:17 PM
iam2thecrowe said:
If you get the 7990, you will come across games where it doesnt work well with, as it is crossfire on a single card. For the games it works well with, it can be faster than a 780 or 290x, but its a gamble that all the games you want to play will run right. a 780 or 290x single card are very good options, and you will be happy with them. I would almost guarantee at some stage of owning a 7990 (or any crossfire setup) you will regret that you didn't just get a fast single card. It only takes one game you really want to play, and it doesn't work properly for, and your back to half the speed of the cards potential. Been there, done that, never again.Eh. I know you're right. The 780 will max all the games I want to play right now, and I have a massive backlog of Steam games. I play a lot of games, and I know I will run into trouble with a 7990 in many of them. (700 games in my Steam library ^ ^)
Thinking about it, the first games I want the 7990 for are actually releasing in late 2014, so I could just take the 780 for now and then if I want I can add another 780 when they come out - this would mean losing no real performance on almost all games I play from now until then, and adding performance to a lot of them. The only downside with this route, I suppose, is that it potentially means forking out another £300 next year, but I guess that's just an early upgrade.
Cor this is tricky. That 780 is looking more and more tempting though.
iam2thecrowe said:
Choice depends on what is more important to you...If you want cutting edge performance in the future Frostbite engine games (including BF4), get the 7990.
If you want consistent performance across all games, including non DX11 games and have no crossfire issues, get the GTX 780.
For $550 you can get the R9 290X which is single gpu and outperforms the 780. If you're willing to wait you may find one with a non-reference cooler which will feel and sound less like a jet engine.
Also the R9 290 (non X) is coming soon, should match or beat the existing 780 at a lower price (lower than $500)
As well as the GTX 780 Ti which is intended to dethrone the 290X as the best single GPU, though it's performance is not certain as of yet. It will cost about $700.
So the choice entirely depends on what is important to you, how much your willing to spend and how long you willing to wait. Us mortal beings in the forums have done our best to aid you. But we can't read your mind to know more about you than yourself, or predict to the future how exactly the new cards are going to perform.
I really would like that cutting edge performance you speak of - but I only actually want it from late 2014. In the meantime, I'll be playing lots of games that the 7990 will screw with. Microstuttering doesn't sound particularly fun, and I hear bad things about Crossfire. Although one 7970 might suffice for most games, I don't want to end up paying £400 for a whiney 7970.
The R9 290 should be releasing on Tuesday, right? That might mix things up a bit. The R9 290X is a little too pricey over here - it might be $550 in America, but it's almost £550 here.
My budget is about £450 and I'd like to get the PC parts within the next couple of weeks. I have no intention of waiting for the 780 ti though, since it's well out of my budget.
Thank you mortals for helping me though
it's really appreciated. This forum is cool.And -- what do you folk think of the 780 (MSI Lightning) in terms of maxing out games in the next year? Or think of a Titan - do you think a Titan would be able to max pretty much everything in 2014?
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Treeroyk
November 3, 2013 4:41:07 AM
huilun02 said:
*speaks of £400 7970*says 290X is pricey
*considers a Titan
Where do you live man?
I'm not talking about a £400 7970, I'm saying that I'm not too keen on buying the 7990 (priced at just under £400) if half the time it's just going to be one 7970 as opposed to two, due to Crossfire issues.
I do have a budget - around £450 - and the R9 290X is £550.
I'm not considering a Titan, as that's absurdly expensive, rather I am considering a GTX 780 MSI Lightning, which is essentially a slightly faster Titan - it'll give almost identical performance to the Titan, hence I asked what people thought of the Titan.
Hope that clears things up!
(Oh, and I'm in the UK)
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R9 290X is £550? Where you buying from?
http://www.scan.co.uk/search.aspx?q=290x
Those are reference designs though, since it's only just released. Reference cooler makes it hot and loud. It's worth waiting for better designs coming soon. If you can't wait and don't want a toaster in your PC, the 780 Lightning is probably the best for you.
http://www.scan.co.uk/search.aspx?q=290x
Those are reference designs though, since it's only just released. Reference cooler makes it hot and loud. It's worth waiting for better designs coming soon. If you can't wait and don't want a toaster in your PC, the 780 Lightning is probably the best for you.
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Treeroyk
November 3, 2013 10:51:20 AM
huilun02 said:
R9 290X is £550? Where you buying from?http://www.scan.co.uk/search.aspx?q=290x
Those are reference designs though, since it's only just released. Reference cooler makes it hot and loud. It's worth waiting for better designs coming soon. If you can't wait and don't want a toaster in your PC, the 780 Lightning is probably the best for you.
I am buying my parts all from Scan, sorry I seem to have mistaken the price £515 for £550. I ignored the ones that aren't stocked because frankly, I can't buy them if they aren't being sold.
The non-reference 290Xs should be coming this week, right? I'm ordering this in two or three weeks so that should be fine to consider the 290X. However, Crossfire is still littered with problems, and thinking ahead, it would be nice to add in a second GPU, and in that sense the 780 would be a better buy than the R9 290X.
To my knowledge, the MSI Lightning 780 is also just as good as the R9 290X in terms of performance, and while that will change with non-reference cards, they'll also be more expensive and likely out of my budget. To top it all off, the 780 comes with a couple of games that I do genuinely want and were planning on buying, so it saves money in that area as well.
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I must stick with my recommendation to go for the MSI 780 over the 7990, that is what I would do if I were you looking at the pricing you are. You will bounce back and forth here for a long time reading all the comments, but I have made up my mind on my advice in your situation, the Lightning is a FAST card.
I like ASUS for the quality and design, I like the only 2 PCIe 3.0 slot design, it is made for SLI. The 3rd x16 slot is 2.0, whatever you plug in there will not steal lanes from your graphics. It has a better memory etch work, “T” topography as apposed to serial on most mid range boards. But all mid range boards by MSI, Gigabyte or ASRock are good, they have little impact on performance in the Z87 series. The bells and whistles are the difference and power sub-systems.
Yes you can SLI any 780 from any vender together, they will set the base clocks on the slowest card. But 2 780 are golden at any speed, not a issue.
@huilun02, I have seen the benchmarks for the 780Ti, the 290x is not even in the same league, that thing runs like a 7990 or 690 does, it is going to be the fasted GPU for us gamers, ya it going for $700, a pretty penny for any budget.
I like ASUS for the quality and design, I like the only 2 PCIe 3.0 slot design, it is made for SLI. The 3rd x16 slot is 2.0, whatever you plug in there will not steal lanes from your graphics. It has a better memory etch work, “T” topography as apposed to serial on most mid range boards. But all mid range boards by MSI, Gigabyte or ASRock are good, they have little impact on performance in the Z87 series. The bells and whistles are the difference and power sub-systems.
Yes you can SLI any 780 from any vender together, they will set the base clocks on the slowest card. But 2 780 are golden at any speed, not a issue.
@huilun02, I have seen the benchmarks for the 780Ti, the 290x is not even in the same league, that thing runs like a 7990 or 690 does, it is going to be the fasted GPU for us gamers, ya it going for $700, a pretty penny for any budget.
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Treeroyk
November 3, 2013 11:49:47 AM
endeavour37a said:
I must stick with my recommendation to go for the MSI 780 over the 7990, that is what I would do if I were you looking at the pricing you are. You will bounce back and forth here for a long time reading all the comments, but I have made up my mind on my advice in your situation, the Lightning is a FAST card.I like ASUS for the quality and design, I like the only 2 PCIe 3.0 slot design, it is made for SLI. The 3rd x16 slot is 2.0, whatever you plug in there will not steal lanes from your graphics. It has a better memory etch work, “T” topography as apposed to serial on most mid range boards. But all mid range boards by MSI, Gigabyte or ASRock are good, they have little impact on performance in the Z87 series. The bells and whistles are the difference and power sub-systems.
Yes you can SLI any 780 from any vender together, they will set the base clocks on the slowest card. But 2 780 are golden at any speed, not a issue.
@huilun02, I have seen the benchmarks for the 780Ti, the 290x is not even in the same league, that thing runs like a 7990 or 690 does, it is going to be the fasted GPU for us gamers, ya it going for $700, a pretty penny for any budget.
My mind is slowly turning to the 780 Lightning as well. If the performance difference is going to be only marginal in new games for the next year and in exchange I get fantastic performance in all games rather than just some, and I don't have to worry about physical problems like coil noise, then I think that's a fair trade off. Particularly when many games I play don't support Crossfire... and I can dual-SLI later on for extra performance.
I'll wait for the R9 290X non-reference cards to come out this week, and *perhaps* they will change my mind. But for now I think I will indeed go with that 780.
Sounds like the Asus Z87-A may be the board I go with. I don't want to splash out on a super-high-end board if a cheaper one will do the job. This one should be able to SLI the 780, which is nice, and it should also have reasonable room for overclocking.
Thanks for the help!
Quick question: would a 750W power supply be pushing it for overclocked 780s in SLI? PCPartPicker thinks it will cope (this will be with an i5-4670k) but I don't know. I want to know what power supply to get right now, I don't want to buy one and then have to fork out another £100 when I sli - if I can make the saving now, that'll be better.
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Treeroyk
November 3, 2013 12:14:12 PM
endeavour37a said:
Yes, 750W will handle 2 x 780, they will draw 700W on a system working hard, 1 x 780 is about 450W system draw. If you want some overhead get a 850W PS for SLII am talking about the whole rig, not just the cards, the cards are 250W.
Hmm. Having thought about this a bit more - when SLI'ing, I should get a top quality PSU, but when using one 780 I would probably use a slightly lower quality one... if so, due to budgeting restrictions I think I might get a 500/600W psu now, and then upgrade to a much more expensive, good quality 750/850 later on. If I got a 750W now, my budget would only really allow for a CX750, and although Corsair is a good brand, I don't think I would want to rely on that PSU when SLI'ing two 780s. A CX750 probably won't particularly like being near full load.
Would that make sense?
(I think I'll start a new thread for the power supply actually, since it's nothing to do with this one.)
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That sounds like a good idea, this one is getting pretty long now. Could you please pick someone here for a solution on your card questions, am sure others in the UK may be wondering the same thing you are, it may help them reading through this, thanks for your patients.
On PSs, s person can't go much wrong with Corsair, XFX or SeaSonic. Other new Ps that are getting good reviews are EVGA also and Anatec.
On PSs, s person can't go much wrong with Corsair, XFX or SeaSonic. Other new Ps that are getting good reviews are EVGA also and Anatec.
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trymetal95
November 6, 2013 11:44:04 PM
Treeroyk said:
I can't decide on which graphics card to get. I'm upgrading and the 780 and 7990 have an identical price, but I don't know which to buy.Ideally I would like to max out games for the next couple of years [at 60+ fps @ 1080p]; the 7990 should be the obvious choice in terms of raw power, but it has its problems, or rather Crossfire has its problems. Some games don't support CF very well, and microstuttering looks like it's still an issue for non-DX11 games, of which I will play a few.
I'm specifically thinking ahead to things like the new Star Wars Battlefront, and Dragon Age: Inquisition. These are Frostbite 3 games, like Battlefield 4, and the 7990 absolutely destroys that game on every setting, while the same cannot be said for the 780.
The cards in question are XFX's 7990 (which I believe is actually just the reference card, right?), and the MSI 780 Lightning, which out of the box should outperform a Titan, plus it has good overclocking potential so should be significantly better than the benches for a normal 780.
I am not concerned with power/heat/noise and having done a bit more research, the coil whine problem with the 7990 probably isn't going to be a huge issue for me.
Which card should I get?
i would go with anything that's high end from AMD, as both Dragon Age Inquisition and Star Wars Battlefront (3) will run the Frostbite 3 graphics engine, all Frostbite 3 games will run the Mantle API from amd (in addition to DirectX) which can only run on GCN GPU's (hd7000 series, Rx 200 series).
but when it comes to specific GPU's, i would go with the HD7990 (i have it myself) or the R9 290x when the manufacturers start putting their own coolers on it (the stock AMD cooler absolutely sucks!)
hope this answers your questions, and good luck with your choice!
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Treeroy
November 7, 2013 9:27:16 AM
trymetal95 said:
i would go with anything that's high end from AMD, as both Dragon Age Inquisition and Star Wars Battlefront (3) will run the Frostbite 3 graphics engine, all Frostbite 3 games will run the Mantle API from amd (in addition to DirectX) which can only run on GCN GPU's (hd7000 series, Rx 200 series).but when it comes to specific GPU's, i would go with the HD7990 (i have it myself) or the R9 290x when the manufacturers start putting their own coolers on it (the stock AMD cooler absolutely sucks!)
hope this answers your questions, and good luck with your choice!
Well, that's the thing. AMD is looking very appealing because of Mantle, in this case Battlefront 3 being the game to play with it. However, I don't know if Mantle is actually going to be used with all that many games; and certainly Bioware has not said they will be using that, so you are simply wrong there.
However, while that may garner a few more frames, in all honesty the GTX 780 will max most things for the time being, and I can SLI later. The way I see it, yes AMD cards may have this improvement, but Nvidia is not just going to be ignored. That ain't how it works.
At this point I'm pretty sure I am going to go with the 780. The 7990 is a lot better in games where it works, but Crossfire isn't perfect and a 7970 alone is nowhere near a 780, so in many games the 7990 would be significantly worse - and bear in mind that the computer is being used for a lot more games than just the two I mentioned. Of course, the ultimate goal is to max out the games I mentioned - but two 780 OCs will easily do that anyway.
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trymetal95
November 7, 2013 12:44:04 PM
Treeroy said:
trymetal95 said:
i would go with anything that's high end from AMD, as both Dragon Age Inquisition and Star Wars Battlefront (3) will run the Frostbite 3 graphics engine, all Frostbite 3 games will run the Mantle API from amd (in addition to DirectX) which can only run on GCN GPU's (hd7000 series, Rx 200 series).but when it comes to specific GPU's, i would go with the HD7990 (i have it myself) or the R9 290x when the manufacturers start putting their own coolers on it (the stock AMD cooler absolutely sucks!)
hope this answers your questions, and good luck with your choice!
Well, that's the thing. AMD is looking very appealing because of Mantle, in this case Battlefront 3 being the game to play with it. However, I don't know if Mantle is actually going to be used with all that many games; and certainly Bioware has not said they will be using that, so you are simply wrong there.
However, while that may garner a few more frames, in all honesty the GTX 780 will max most things for the time being, and I can SLI later. The way I see it, yes AMD cards may have this improvement, but Nvidia is not just going to be ignored. That ain't how it works.
At this point I'm pretty sure I am going to go with the 780. The 7990 is a lot better in games where it works, but Crossfire isn't perfect and a 7970 alone is nowhere near a 780, so in many games the 7990 would be significantly worse - and bear in mind that the computer is being used for a lot more games than just the two I mentioned. Of course, the ultimate goal is to max out the games I mentioned - but two 780 OCs will easily do that anyway.
we are all judging how the r9 290x performs with the stock cooler when we all know that the stock cooler is the worst stock cooler on the market. i would wait with the judging until ASUS comes with a DirectCU II version and sapphire comes with a VaporX version. as we all know, high temps impede the overall performance.
as for the 780ti, we don't know how big an improvement it will be compared to an eventual OC version of the r9 290x.
and Mantle, it has been confirmed that all frostbite 3 games will run Mantle, it will be an integrated feature in the graphics engine, it has also been confirmed that Cloud Imperium Games, Eidos-Montréal and Oxide Games have said that they will integrate mantle in future games. and we may see a lot more EA games with Mantle since they have started to encurage other game devs under EA to start using Frostbite.
i'm just saying that there is a lot of potential for Mantle and the only way you are going to get to use it is with and AMD GPU...
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Treeroy
November 7, 2013 1:14:06 PM
trymetal95 said:
we are all judging how the r9 290x performs with the stock cooler when we all know that the stock cooler is the worst stock cooler on the market. i would wait with the judging until ASUS comes with a DirectCU II version and sapphire comes with a VaporX version. as we all know, high temps impede the overall performance. as for the 780ti, we don't know how big an improvement it will be compared to an eventual OC version of the r9 290x.
and Mantle, it has been confirmed that all frostbite 3 games will run Mantle, it will be an integrated feature in the graphics engine, it has also been confirmed that Cloud Imperium Games, Eidos-Montréal and Oxide Games have said that they will integrate mantle in future games. and we may see a lot more EA games with Mantle since they have started to encurage other game devs under EA to start using Frostbite.
i'm just saying that there is a lot of potential for Mantle and the only way you are going to get to use it is with and AMD GPU...
Yes, it's true that we are judging the R9 290X at stock. HOWEVER it's still $250 more expensive than the GTX 780, which frankly is a big difference.
It has not been confirmed that Frostbite 3 games will support Mantle, it's only been confirmed that DICE is supporting Mantle. Bioware, which is developing Dragon Age: Inquisition, is not confirmed to support Mantle.
Eidos-Montreal is not developing any games I'm interested in, I have no interest in Star Citizen, and Oxide Games? Are you serious? You're sounding like a marketing person. Are you aware that Oxide Games is a company that no one has ever heard of, and that they have made a total of 0 games?
Of course it's nice to have Mantle. But it's not something I am willing to pay $250 for, sorry it just isn't. GTX 780 is just as good, and by the time I'm actually playing next-gen games I will have 2 of these babies :-) what is effectively a dual-titan setup is probably going to kill any game in the next few years.
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trymetal95
November 8, 2013 11:19:02 AM
Treeroy said:
trymetal95 said:
we are all judging how the r9 290x performs with the stock cooler when we all know that the stock cooler is the worst stock cooler on the market. i would wait with the judging until ASUS comes with a DirectCU II version and sapphire comes with a VaporX version. as we all know, high temps impede the overall performance. as for the 780ti, we don't know how big an improvement it will be compared to an eventual OC version of the r9 290x.
and Mantle, it has been confirmed that all frostbite 3 games will run Mantle, it will be an integrated feature in the graphics engine, it has also been confirmed that Cloud Imperium Games, Eidos-Montréal and Oxide Games have said that they will integrate mantle in future games. and we may see a lot more EA games with Mantle since they have started to encurage other game devs under EA to start using Frostbite.
i'm just saying that there is a lot of potential for Mantle and the only way you are going to get to use it is with and AMD GPU...
Yes, it's true that we are judging the R9 290X at stock. HOWEVER it's still $250 more expensive than the GTX 780, which frankly is a big difference.
It has not been confirmed that Frostbite 3 games will support Mantle, it's only been confirmed that DICE is supporting Mantle. Bioware, which is developing Dragon Age: Inquisition, is not confirmed to support Mantle.
Eidos-Montreal is not developing any games I'm interested in, I have no interest in Star Citizen, and Oxide Games? Are you serious? You're sounding like a marketing person. Are you aware that Oxide Games is a company that no one has ever heard of, and that they have made a total of 0 games?
Of course it's nice to have Mantle. But it's not something I am willing to pay $250 for, sorry it just isn't. GTX 780 is just as good, and by the time I'm actually playing next-gen games I will have 2 of these babies :-) what is effectively a dual-titan setup is probably going to kill any game in the next few years.
you know that the R9 290 is only 50$ more expensive AT MOST! and that the r9 290x even outperforms the titan in many games! the r9 290x is the best bang-per-buck on the market today! why go with a dual titan setup for 2000$ when you can get a setup for 1100$ which is practically as powerful with two R9 290x.
if you really want a powerful setup for 2000$, get two HD7990
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Treeroy
November 8, 2013 6:14:20 PM
trymetal95 said:
you know that the R9 290 is only 50$ more expensive AT MOST! and that the r9 290x even outperforms the titan in many games! the r9 290x is the best bang-per-buck on the market today! why go with a dual titan setup for 2000$ when you can get a setup for 1100$ which is practically as powerful with two R9 290x. if you really want a powerful setup for 2000$, get two HD7990
I'm aware of the prices, thanks. I don't really want an R9 290 when an overclocked 780 is far superior. Yes I know the 290X is faster than the Titan, but the 780 I'm looking at outperforms both.
R9 290X is $800, GTX 780 is $500. That's a massive difference. It's clearly not the best for price/performance.
I don't want a 7990, I've come off that idea. Two of them don't even work together, so you clearly don't know what you're talking 'bout
(And remember that the 7990 is cheaper than the 290X)
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Grab the 780, overclock it and you will beat the Titan and the 290/290X, less heat, less noise and less power draw at it will play any game you throw at it , and later you can get a G Sync enabled monitor to further increase its potential for smoother gaming without tearing
From the reviewers they even say the 290/290X is way too loud for their liking, the heat does it for me, the 780 does not have these issues.
From the reviewers they even say the 290/290X is way too loud for their liking, the heat does it for me, the 780 does not have these issues.
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trymetal95
November 9, 2013 4:29:47 AM
Treeroy said:
trymetal95 said:
you know that the R9 290 is only 50$ more expensive AT MOST! and that the r9 290x even outperforms the titan in many games! the r9 290x is the best bang-per-buck on the market today! why go with a dual titan setup for 2000$ when you can get a setup for 1100$ which is practically as powerful with two R9 290x. if you really want a powerful setup for 2000$, get two HD7990
I'm aware of the prices, thanks. I don't really want an R9 290 when an overclocked 780 is far superior. Yes I know the 290X is faster than the Titan, but the 780 I'm looking at outperforms both.
R9 290X is $800, GTX 780 is $500. That's a massive difference. It's clearly not the best for price/performance.
I don't want a 7990, I've come off that idea. Two of them don't even work together, so you clearly don't know what you're talking 'bout
(And remember that the 7990 is cheaper than the 290X)
i do not know where you shop electronics, but the R9 290x averages at around 600 dollars, the sapphire 290x is about 550 dollars. and wait until the OC versions of 290x come, they will not be much more expensive, and they will be total beasts!
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Treeroy
November 9, 2013 4:54:32 AM
trymetal95 said:
i do not know where you shop electronics, but the R9 290x averages at around 600 dollars, the sapphire 290x is about 550 dollars. and wait until the OC versions of 290x come, they will not be much more expensive, and they will be total beasts! I live in England, and I was translating the prices into dollars. Here the 780 is the equivalent of $500 and the 290X is $800. That's a huge price difference.
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trymetal95
November 9, 2013 8:17:47 AM
Treeroy said:
trymetal95 said:
i do not know where you shop electronics, but the R9 290x averages at around 600 dollars, the sapphire 290x is about 550 dollars. and wait until the OC versions of 290x come, they will not be much more expensive, and they will be total beasts! I live in England, and I was translating the prices into dollars. Here the 780 is the equivalent of $500 and the 290X is $800. That's a huge price difference.
that is weird, on newegg the 780 costs 500$ and the 290x costs 550$
in norway, where i live, the 780 costs about 650$ and the 290x costs about 695$, but we have a 25% tax on stuff we buy.
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